Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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I take it you're not an MT fan. People talk about them a lot. I really don't complain; I read MT because they always have the latest info (well, behind Edmunds, but before any other magazine).
I'm not a huge CR fan either. If I read CR, it's for amusement in a doctor's office- just to hear their oppinion on whatever vehicle they're testing. I would never go off them to buy a car, but that's just because I already know so much about cars, and like to do a lot of test driving. For someone who isn't as in to the automotive world, CR could be a decent source to use.
And I think everybody does turning circle.
That's what I'm assuming too. Our show here isn't until late April this year (it's a decent sized show but not major by any stretch of the imagination) so I'm crossing my fingers that they put one on the floor for all to see since JOB1 is scheduled for April 7th.
I'm also hoping to see the new Volvo XC60 in a color other than the one Volvo is showing in it's newly released production pictures. I like it but it looks a little odd shaped in that color to me.
You never know; the Hyundai Genesis was sitting right on the floor in Chicago. I was suprised. Although, I do think if you want an experience like that, you might have to go to a major autoshow, not just your local city's. I really think if you want to get a general idea, sit in a TX. I can't imagine what ford could have done to really differentiate the two, although if they want anything resembling success, it better be something amazing.
Yeah, and could you actually open the doors and get in one hoser0eh?
I quite liked the Flex. It looked interesting and different. My wife did not like it though. Couldn't look inside or open doors.
Same with the Volvo. It looked fabulous. However, it might not be as practical inside as the Flex, due to it's curvy shape.
I don't agree with a lot of their past COTY picks, though.
Have driven both the Acadia and the Enclave recently and liked them both. Very comfortable, smooth ride, lots of bells and whistles.
Wife and I took a test drive in the MDX yesterday and I was really surprised at the difference in handling and power. The SHAWD is a lot more than just hype. Vehicle remains flat in quick turns and accellerates quickly. Steering wheel is well weighted and gives great road feel. As you can tell I really liked it.
By comparison the Acadia/Enclave steering seems over-boosted, there is more wallow in turns, and generally are not nearly as involving to drive. They are NOT bad cars, just different.
I fully recognize that many here could care less about handling, etc. Just think that given the similarities in price point, at least for the high end Lambda platforms, prospective buyers owe it to themseleves to at least drive the MDX.
Actually, you can get into most of the vehicles at an auto show. They restrict some access to certain vehicles (ie. a half million dollar car that they don't want damaged). And some concepts don't even have a finished interior to look at anyway.
I probably sat in about a dozen different vehicles, although you might be sharing the experience with many people you don't know.
Now if only Acura could correct the rest of it's line up. They just redid the TSX (which looks okay) but I'd rather have an Accord than that ugly RL.
GM has dropped the price by $4K on Acadias/Outlooks, so if you're a Canadian looking at these twins, good timing. I think you can pick up base models for about $31K before delivery and tax. Only about $1500 more than across the border...but that difference is mitigated by various factors that pretty much makes it a scratch.
Though even after this $4K price break by GM I still would opt for the VC (unless I needed the extra foot in length for three or more grown kids - then that extra space may be invaluable - and I know some Posters here can be included in that group). The base VC in Canada would be about $3K more than a base Lambda out the door and for the $3K you get AWD, leather, sunroof, power driver seat, steering wheel audio, etc. and the longer warranty.
I also went to the Canadian Auto Show this weekend. I think it might have been good...I think anyway...
Made the mistake of going without my wife and spent most of the time chasing my five year old son. Can't say I saw much of the cars.
I have no idea what ANY Mercedes is like to drive. Generally far more expensive than we could afford. The MDX is not a luxury vehicle in the Mercedes/Lexus sense, but it is a cut above the norm and would certainly be the nicest (and most expensive) vehicle that we ever bought.
I am sure that I will never understand how Canadian prices work, but I WAS comparing between the MDX and a "high-end" Lambda, in other words vehicles that are similarly equipped.
I didn't mean to imply otherwise.
I was just wow'd by the fact that one can walk away with the GM's (admittedly base models, yes) for 60% of the price of the MDX. Unless my calculations from the websites were wrong.
Let's say I can afford the MDX...personally, I take the base GM over it in a nanosecond and pocket the change. The MDX is not 60% more vehicle in my opinion.
I know- the Camry? Yawn. The Mercedes Benz GL? Why. The 2008 picks were okay for me though.
MDX looks to be $42K in the States and $53K here.
For many years I think we had it better than the U.S. in terms of car pricing and the opposite was the case.
He's never been to an autoshow? He doesn't know wha the's missing! That's the best place to go if you want to look at all your possible next vehicle choices in one place.
I probably sat in about a dozen different vehicles, although you might be sharing the experience with many people you don't know.
You don't enjoy people constantly saying "you like it?" or "have enough room back there?" or jumping in front of you in line to get in a Porche? On second thought...
I am sure that I will never understand how Canadian prices work, but I WAS comparing between the MDX and a "high-end" Lambda, in other words vehicles that are similarly equipped.
Auto prices in Canada have been impacted in a big way by the rising currency. About 5 years ago, a Canadian dollar was worth about 62 cents US (it's all-time low). Back then, vehicle prices in Canada were about 10%-20% less than in the US after accounting for the currency exchange.
However, over the last five years the Canadian dollar has gone from 62 cents US to around $1 even (that's more than a 60% increase; 38/62). As a result, the relative retail prices have also changed. We have gone from about 20% cheaper to about 20% more expensive.
I'll give an example to help illustrate:
5 years ago a vehicle priced at $32000 US might have cost $40000 Canadian. However, since the Canadian dollar was only worth 62 cents US back then, the $40000 Canadian price was equal to $24800 US. That was a great deal for Canadians.
Today, with the two dollars being pretty much equal, the same vehicle priced at $40000 Canadian is now equal to $40000 US. But if the vehicle price in the US is still at $32000, then it's much cheaper for Americans to buy.
The market prices will slowly change to equalize the prices, but they rarely change as quickly as the currency does. It takes time for the adjustments to work through the system.
Our dollar has been roughly equal to the US dollar for about a year now, and the car companies are just starting to make price adjustments here (ie Lexus RX350 msrp has just gone from 53000 to 44500).
Eventually Canadian and American prices should be somewhat similar, though they will rarely be exactly the same.
Luke warm customer response.
Slow sales.
They will have the Flex and the new unibody, car based Explorer on the lots. All three would be similar in size (within a few inches of each other probably) and would never survive together, therefore one has to go.
I like it too raezmom and wouldn't hesitate to buy one now if my wife liked it too. But we're in the minority and Ford sees it fit to move on.
To me the outside of the car is by far the least important aspect. It's like when I'm online looking for photos I completely ignore the exterior shots and I really wish they'd have interior shots with people in the seats to give some perspective.
And even then the interior photos are designed to trick you. They'll give you a shot of a 3rd row with the 2nd row slid all the way forward to make the 3rd row look roomy. Then they'll give you a shot of the 2nd row with the 2nd row slid all the way back (just look at the tracks) and the front row slid pretty far forward (just look at the center console stick back versus being flush with the back of the front seats). The Mazda5 webpage does the best job because it has photos with adults sitting in all three rows of this little 3-row car. Sure the adults aren't big, but at least you get some idea.
The same with videos. Edmunds videos (as well as from other car review sites) are usually worthless because they mostly just show the car from the outside driving down the road from different angles...who cares?!? Then they just have some quick interior video clips and of course there's no-one in the vehicle when they're shooting the video clip. For 3-row vehicles, they should show in the video some adults climbing and sitting in all three rows and throw some stuff behind the 3rd row to get perspective. Not just show you different exterior views of the car driving down the road.
Anyway, enough of my pet-peeves to online photos/videos from car review websites. But it's good to know you can get inside some of the cars at a carshow.
Bingo.
Many models used are size 0.
Did you know that Honda sold a 10-passenger (yes TEN) CR-V in the Philippines. Not stretched, by the way.
No, seriously.
It was actually done to avoid taxes, I believe, but they pulled it off!
oh, I just figured it out, stacked like cordwood in the back with the seats folded down...that''s it.
Unless a person's budget rules it out, it should at least get a looonnnng test drive. And not just around the corner. Get it on the highway to legal and above-legal speeds. Get it on a curvy road and spend enough time with the SH-AWD to understand how to make it work. Check out it's maneuverability in tight parking lots. Ok, maybe not that...it is rather wide. After doing all that, it was one of the easier buying decisions I ever made.
Disclaimer - These, of course, are my opinions. Your opinions may (and probably will) vary if you are not a "car" guy like me. "Truck" guys will most likely hate the MDX.
I believe I've seen some minor improvements in finance/lease terms but the adjustments have been primarily applied to cash purchases.
The car co.'s know exactly what they are doing.
The currency certainly plays the major role in all of this but there are some economy of scale factors as well.
Impressive. And not just impressive "for a crossover", impressive with no disclaimers at all.
What did you pay for yours? With what options?
Like someone else said, the Taurus X is a slow seller, even after Ford spent so much money on upgrades over the Freestyle for it's midlife cycle freshening. SO if you want a similar vehicle that is up to date, I'd suggest the Ford Flex (it's similar sized and comes to the market soon). Or you could just buy the Taurus X. They'll still make parts for it after 2010.
I'll 2nd that suggestion.
It's the single best place to check out competitors back-to-back, without any sales pressure to boot.
Hit an autoshow first, to establish a short list. Then test drive just those. The auto show will really help you narrow it down though, in terms of what is comfortable for you, fits all your stuff, etc.
PM just did that article with a beach cooler - but so what if your cooler is a different size? For me it was a stroller, anyway, not a cooler. I wanted enough floor space to fit the stroller and still have floor space without piling things on top.
But you are missing some of the points that bother me most. Although many brands claim to have adjusted prices, many simply offered cash discounts but only for cash purchases. Financed or leased vehicles did not see any price changes. c.f. GM for example. The reason they did this was that only Canadians with cash in hand could buy in the US. This ploy removed any advantage for those individuals, but the majority of car buyers finance in one way or another, and they see no benefit. In most cases, the new pricing is really a pittance offering a couple of thousand dollars for a $10k difference.
cisb
Correct.
I believe I've seen some minor improvements in finance/lease terms but the adjustments have been primarily applied to cash purchases.
The car co.'s know exactly what they are doing.
The currency certainly plays the major role in all of this but there are some economy of scale factors as well.
You're right. All I did was scratch the surface of car pricing. I was simply showing how at one point Canadians were getting bargain car pricing, due to an undervalued currency. Now that the currency has appreciated so dramatically, we are overpaying for cars, in spite of lowered prices or big discounts.
Canadian car salespeople would love to be able to sell their vehicles at even lower prices (which generate more sales), but the Canadian dealers are stuck paying the parent manufacturer a higher price than American dealers pay.
I subscribe to a web service that gives me Canadian dealer costs. A base Buick Enclave msrp is 40895, and the dealer cost is 36949. American msrp is 33505! Why does the Canadian dealer have to pay so much?
The Canadian dealers have responded with an advertising blitz saying how they are making "adjustments" to prices, offering cash back, and lower finance rates, to imply that they have corrected the situation. While this is true for a small number of vehicles, it is mostly just "smoke and mirrors" to give the impression that something has been done, when really Canadians are stil overpaying for the vast majority of vehicles.
The dealers are simply trying to put the best light on a bad situation, until the manufacturer begins to adjust their cost prices down to more reasonable levels.
It's a tough situation.
For social and political reasons we wanted to keep our dollars out of the U.S. but those savings made it awfully difficult to resist. I'm happy we found a deal that allowed us to purchase here in Canada without much of a price difference compared to south of the border (cash buyer).
Similar sized but not similar price. :surprise:
2009 Ford Flex order guide
2009 Ford Flex price guide
It seems to have a lot standard which follows Ford's recent announcement that they will be packaging trim levels similar to the Asian mfrs. But I think it's still kind of pricey. Competitively priced, yes. But I expected it to be closer to the TX in price myself.
And the worst is Lexus. Let's not even pretend that third row seat was intended for more than a shelf for groceries. It's flat on the floor.
Key word: college.
Really? I'm not a big fan of the RDX. I'd rather have the competition- especially with the GLK and the Volvo XC60 coming out. And I'm a big fan of the X3.
Actually, that was still a crap deal for Canadians: taking exchange rates only confuses the point. Suppose that we both went to the dealer with a $50k dollar bill (say yours was $50k canadian, mine was $50k american) and bought the same car: at the end of the day you'd have $10k left over, while I would have $18k. I am still relatively $8k richer than you are. With that extra $8k in my hands I can go buy myself 8000 packs of gum, while no gum for you!
See the point I'm trying to make?
Actually, that was still a crap deal for Canadians: taking exchange rates only confuses the point. Suppose that we both went to the dealer with a $50k dollar bill (say yours was $50k canadian, mine was $50k american) and bought the same car: at the end of the day you'd have $10k left over, while I would have $18k. I am still relatively $8k richer than you are. With that extra $8k in my hands I can go buy myself 8000 packs of gum, while no gum for you!
See the point I'm trying to make?
Sorry, but I don't see your point. You cannot ignore the exchange rate if you want to compare properly.You are implying that an American dollar was equal to a Canadian dollar 5 years ago and it simply wasn't. If you had 50K US$ that was equal to over 80K C$ (when the exchange rate was 62 cents), so you are not comparing equal amounts. So in your example, the American would have 18K US left over (50-32) and the Canadian would have 40K Canadian left over (80-40) after buying their vehicles.
Try it this way:
If instead of the American buying their vehicle in the US for $32000 US$, they came to Canada with $32000 US$, it would convert to over $51000 Canadian (using a 62 cent exchange rate). They could then buy the $40000 Canadian vehicle and have $11000 C$ left over, because the Canadian vehicle is less expensive than the American one after adjusting for currency.
Similarly, if a Canadian took $40000 C$ to the US and converted it to US dollars, they would only have $24800. Not enough to buy the US car at $32000, because the US model is far more expensive than the Canadian.
Either way you look at it, the Canadian vehicle was a bargain compared to the US one 5 years ago.
Of course today, the reverse is true, and Americans are getting the bargain vehicles, relatively speaking.
Sure you can: the Canadian is paying more of his dollars to buy a car in Canada. The American is paying less of his dollars. The exchange rate could be 10:1, it still wouldn't change that fact.
The better way to compare would be to look at it this way: what is the percentage cost of the car as compared to the average salary in Canada, and compared to the average salary in the US. Since salaries kinda track each other (I thought it was about $27k for individuals in both countries), you should find that no matter what the exchange rate is, the cost of the Canadian car will always be a bigger percentage chunk of the average Canadian's salary.
This is all getting too complicated...I'm sure we'll be told to take it elsewhere!
but is Canada or the US more wagon like and who has higher ground clearance??? figure that out and we may have gotten somewhere today...
I think price is still a bit close to the TX.
As for being high, I don't think by too much. Really it's a matter of is anyone willing to pay this much for this vehicle- or a Ford period. Price is what killed the Chrysler Pacifica. The prices are 28g (base) 32g (SEL) and 34g (Limited). I think they all should be decreased by $1000. I'm not totally ure I agree with where they've taking this vehicle, but I will wish Ford good luck. The segment's heating up.
Even in terms of two rows, the best competitors are the RX and M-class. The RX doesn't handle quite as well, and the M-class is a Mercedes- therefore you will have to pay Mercedes premium. And if I had to pick my favorite of those, it would be the M-class, but that doesn't seat seven.
Get it on the highway to legal and above-legal speeds.
Well that's being responsible. :P