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nxs138
Sure you can: the Canadian is paying more of his dollars to buy a car in Canada. The American is paying less of his dollars. The exchange rate could be 10:1, it still wouldn't change that fact.
Wow! Maybe you are getting confused because both of our currencies are called dollars. But if you are trying to compare vehicle prices in different countries, you MUST take the exchange rate into account. Imagine that you could buy your vehicle in any country that you want. Then imagine that the exact same vehicle costs the following prices in these five countries:
25,000 Euros in France
35,000 US Dollars in the US
40,000 Canadian Dollars in Canada
400,000 Pesos in Mexico
4,000,000 Yen in Japan
If an American has 35,000 US dollars, should they buy the car in the US, or would it be cheaper for them to buy the car in one of the other countries? How would you figure it out? By calculating how much of the other countries' currency that 35,000 US dollars would buy, using the exchange rate. That's the only way you can properly compare prices in the different countries.
And since this forum includes many people from both Canada and the US, I think that it's important to understand how to compare prices between countries.
I am sure that I will never understand how Canadian prices work, but I WAS comparing between the MDX and a "high-end" Lambda, in other words vehicles that are similarly equipped.
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I know.
I didn't mean to imply otherwise.
I was just wow'd by the fact that one can walk away with the GM's (admittedly base models, yes) for 60% of the price of the MDX. Unless my calculations from the websites were wrong.
Let's say I can afford the MDX...personally, I take the base GM over it in a nanosecond and pocket the change. The MDX is not 60% more vehicle in my opinion.
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A base Enclave starts at 41000 in Canada, while a base MDX starts at 52500. The MDX is great, but it was out of our price range.
Your logic only holds if, say, a resident of the US wants to buy a car in another country. In that case, of course you have to take exchange into account. My entire point here is whether or not an american buying a car in his own country is getting a better deal than, say, a canadian buying a car in Canada. The only way to know that is not through exchange, but what percentage of the salary the car will cost. Here are 2 examples (with hypothetical salaries) to demontrate my point:
Example 1: average american makes $100k/year. Average Canadian makes $100k/year. American car costs $35k, same Canadian car cost $45k. The american uses less of his salary to pay for the car. Exchange plays no role here, unless the american decides to go buy a car in Canada and vice-versa.
Example 2: average american makes $100k/year. Average Mexican makes 500,000 pesos/year. American car costs $35k, same Mexican car cost 400,000 pesos. Again, the american car is only 35% of the american's salary, while the Mexican car is 80% of the Mexican's salary. Again, exchange rate plays no role if you want to know if the american is getting a better deal than the Mexican, unless the American wants to go buy a car in Mexico.
I would choose those over the MDX and enjoy the $20K+ savings - and I can afford the MDX. As good as it is, the MDX is not even close to being worth $20K more than those vehicles IMO. Because they achieve similar primary goals in transporting people and cargo. The gravy on the meatloaf ain't worth it here if you ask me. Of course nobody did...so I digress...
I'm all about value and have zero loyalty to any one company. I will always lean towards what I perceive is the best value based upon the analysis of the tangible and intangible criteria I personally value given my specific needs/wants. I understand others will have a different opinion. I'm cool with that. The MDX is much more a "driver's" vehicle - agreed. But an extra $20K front end investment?! C'mon! If one wants to "drive" I'm not sure why one would be looking at 16 foot long three row thingamajigs anyway.
Unless of course one is just plain wealthy. I am not. Then throw everything I say about value to the wind and just get whatever the heart desires.
hence the fallacy of "performance" CUV's...your point sums it up with all the "enthusiast" bravado that get's thrown around. I sit back and laugh, they simply need to be safe, competant, keep up with traffic and brake, some do that better than others around here but to label them capable of any real "performance" is quite silly.
$20k will get you any number of "performance" street cars and even a spec miata/944/e30 & a season of entry fees if you really want to get serious about driving "performance" or learning how to drive...
Those are just quick guesses.
And how can you pass on the tech package? The good ones are mid 40s.
A fine crossover, but mostly in a different price class (deservedly so).
Well there's nothing new about those design elements to be sure. In fact, I think Ford started that whole trend back in 1985 with the original Taurus. Whether or not the Flex is going to be the next Taurus is yet to be seen. I'm betting not because it is entirely too different for everyone to like it but you never can tell until the sales numbers start rolling in.
It will be at least a year to two, or more before these begin making it into mass implementation.
I'm not so sure about that. Sources are saying that there will be an optional EcoBoost I4 and V6 in the Fusion triplets this fall. That's right on the heels of the Summer production of the EB V6 in the new MKS sedan. The motors are ready but I'm sure it's just a matter of production, and therefore supply, being ramped up right now.
If you're going to complain about Ford taking a long time to produce something they promised at least focus on something that really did take a while to reach the market. Like the Hybrid Fusion, or the D35. The latter took a while because they purposely delayed it so they could add such improvements as plug and play hybrid and tubo capabilities. But it was still delayed nonetheless.
That's i was trying to tell this forum for long time. Acadia is best value.
Did you read the post? Because you're trying to prove to us the the Acadia is the best value and make it a fact. cjsb only told us that the Acadia is the best value for him and that's really all you should be doing too. I completely disagree with both of you and don't feel the Acadia is a good value at all. albook seems to think the Acadia is priced higher because people will pay a premium for a GMC badged copy of a Lambda as opposed to a Chevy or a Saturn. I don't see how that's possible, but that doesn't mean it's not true. If it is, then how is the Acadia a better value for anyone? The Outlook is the same exact vehicle save for the sheetmetal but yet it costs less. Why didn't either one of you buy one of those?
Also, as juice already pointed out, the MDX is in a different league and does not compare well to the Acadia. So obviously the Acadia is a great value when you compare those two. It is not a good value when compared to it's main competition however. The CX-9, TX, Pilot, Outlook, and some others all cost less when compareably equipped. I'm curious to know why you, and cjsb if he wants to chime in too, feel the Acadia was such a great value?
Read my posts.
When we shopped it came down to the CX9, Outlook (not Acadia) and VC. After looking at many vehicles over several months in vastly different price ranges.
And VC was the best for us. Outlook second. CX9 third.
I've never waivered on that.
And VC was the best for us. Outlook second. CX9 third.
Gotcha. I believe vad had me too confused to think clearly!
I somehow got the impression you bought an Acadia because it was a great value. The Outlook is clearly the value as far as the Lambdas go right now. The Chevy may change that soon. Or it may sell so well that the other 3 get big discounts. And yes, your VC is an even better value than all of them. That too is why my father-in-law bought one over the Lambdas and the Mazda.
That's i was trying to tell this forum for long time. Acadia is best value.
Did you read the post? Because you're trying to prove to us the the Acadia is the best value and make it a fact. cjsb only told us that the Acadia is the best value for him and that's really all you should be doing too.
Buddy, you might as well just well bang your head against a wall; it'll accomplish the same thing as trying to explain this. You'll have a headache, and he or she will have never heard a word.
One more time for good measure.
I'm not trying to make excuses for them because it was like a year late and they should have thought about the future from the get-go. But I think we all have to agree they did the right thing in the end because putting what was originally not much more than a bored out D30 to market would have been a big mistake.
Another part of the story was that they wanted to modernize one of the Clevaland engine plants before they began producing the D35 at it. That took about a year to do to and caused the supply shortage of the motor shortly after it was introduced.
I'm driving around in a 2006 Explorer with the 4.0L Cologne engine in it. Talk about something needing updated! That engine dates back to the stone ages I think. I'm not dissatisfied with it in any way, but it would be nice to have something newer and I don't see why they couldn't put something else in it.
It most likely will never be in our garage either. My wife hates it even though she's a big fan of the Mountaineer and Pilot box-type styles. She doesn't like the curvy swoopy look either and I'm ready to give up!
I complain a lot about Ford not changing fast enough, but in reality all domestic auto makers have a long product cycle. They just can't change fast enough.
I agree 100%. I think we'll see that change dramatically though. I haven't been following GM and Chrysler as closely but I do know that Ford has been updating it's assembly plants, engine and vehicle both, to be of the flexible kind. One of the big reasons they keep using the same Volvo platform is that the plants will be able to produce 2 or more different vehicles if demand calls for it. It also allows for fewer plants and lower costs. The Asian mfrs have been doing this for years and the domestics are finally starting to catch on.
The downside to all of this is that it takes time and money to make these changes. That delays product and product development hence all our frustration with these brands lately.
I agree the GM's have more room in the third row and behind it. And I've maintained that for that reason, those with three or more grown kids might do best with the GM.
But I don't have three grown kids. And the VC has ALL that other stuff that makes the VC seem luxurious compared to the base or near base GM's I test drove. The third row room is meaningless to me. I reiterate..."to me".
Plus the VC is AWD (lockable). I don't know where you live, but in the snowiest winter in southern Ontario in half a century, that AWD coupled with the ESC not only comes in handy, it makes me feel a bit better about my wife and young kids trucking around rural roads while I'm at work.
AWD was going to run $3K on the GM's. That's a joke! And it's an inferior AWD system to what is used in the VC.
Let's just say we agree to disagree and not hijack the thread.
No indeed. The Enclave fits those criteria for me and the body shape really appeals to me. We need something larger to carry cargo, people, and the combination thereof. Coming out of an Expedition, fuel economy is a big deal to me (we saw single digits often), so it is a tall order to get effeciency and size. The new DI motor will help with this even more.
too different for everyone to like it
It will be interesting to watch the sales numbers and see what happens with it. It won't be in my garage, but judging from the strong reactions my comments drew here some will have it in theirs.
Sources are saying that there will be an optional EcoBoost I4
If that turns out to be true then that is great news for Ford. They need that engine like yesterday.
I complain a lot about Ford not changing fast enough, but in reality all domestic auto makers have a long product cycle. They just can't change fast enough.
So you will never know why it 3 grand less.
Anyway I will buy GM or Ford over Hyundai brand. For ME it's Hyundai and will better invest to American economy then Eastern Asia.
I think everyone has some behind the curb time every once in a while (for some more than others). Why did Mazda wait till mid model year to give the still new CX-9 the 3.7? (At least they acted quickly) Why did Ford use that old outdated underpowered Duratech V6 SO LONG? It took them forever to design the new 3.5!
Sooo....
The rebate on a 2008 Acadia in my zip right now is $500. The rebate (in the form of dealer cash in this case) on a 2008 CX-9 is $1000. So actually you are right this time vad! The CX-9 is not "2-3 grand" cheaper than the Acadia. It's actually $2500 - $3500 cheaper. :shades:
Your logic only holds if, say, a resident of the US wants to buy a car in another country. In that case, of course you have to take exchange into account.
No, my logic holds if you want to actually compare the prices of vehicles in different countries. It doesn't matter if the example used is an American wanting to buy a car in another country, or a Canadian wanting to buy a car in another country, or a Mexican wanting to buy a car in another country etc.
In that case, of course you have to take exchange into account.
Yes! You must.
The question I am addressing is "In which country is it cheapest for someone to buy their car?". By taking exchange into account you can calculate where it is cheapest to buy a vehicle.
Your statement about who pays a greater % of their income to buy a vehicle in their own country addresses an entirely different question, that is dependant on a hundred different variables such as national income levels, tax policy, education levels, social policy, etc.
However, if you want to use your example of a Mexican who uses 80% of their income to buy a vehicle in Mexico, try this: What percentage of the Mexican's income would be used to buy the same vehicle in the US? In other words, would it be cheaper for them to buy the same vehicle in Mexico or in the US?
That's all I'm trying to determine. Which country has the least expensive vehicle pricing. And for that you need to take into account the exchange rate.
not sure what you are referering to here, I don't own a 5 series. regardless, the length isn't the problem the center of gravity and weight is when talking about performance abilities between the two and to compare the two I find funny if that's where you are going with that. your bank account is your concern not mine but thanks for the update as I wasn't commenting on it in any regard....
" I prefer to be silly and have a vehicle that reaches somewhere above the basic needs level...regardless how silly I am. In the case of the MDX...all I was trying to relay in my posts was that if there is a better handling three row SUV out there for $40 grand I couldn't find it."
So am I(the above basic part), but all of the cuv's do exceed basic transport and as I said some better than others at different things but to infer "performance" and this crop of CUV's I think is a bit funny and inaccurrate, IMO.
"...but why can't I enjoy that vehicle (performance street car that I only use by my self) along with enjoying my above average performing MDX when I am on, say vacation with my family? Oh...and the fact you are insisting on having this laugh tells me all I need to know regarding your and my performance driving abilities. "
nothing you mentioned couldn't carry at least one other person, last I knew only one person can drive at a time to get the fullest sense of "perfoprmance", the rest are just passengers holding on or squirming in their seats enjoying the "performance" of the roll angles of a 4k+lb vehicle with a higher center of gravity trying to fight physics going around a corner. i.e not my idea of "performance" driving, your opinion may vary.
Again, performance driving and CUV's are simply not two things that go together as my track time leads me to think. having spent time in "performance cars" and trying to equate that experience to something you can do in a CUV is just unfounded. Are they safe and do they brake, accelerate, etc. competantly, sure no argument there, do they "perform" in a manner inferred by the term "performance" I think most of us can agree on, no.
maybe it's as simple as your goalposts of the term performance are different than mine...
Cause I have a family? By the way, I helped you out by sending out a message to all BMW 5 Series owners that they can't possibly want to "drive" since the 5 series is within a few 10ths of an inch of an MDX. Thank goodness 5 Series cars don't have third rows or there might be mass suicides. Oh, and thanks for worrying so about my bank account. Truth is, I can swing the extra $4 grand or so that the MDX cost over the other similarly equipped vehicles I was interested in.
hence the fallacy of "performance" CUV's...your point sums it up with all the "enthusiast" bravado that get's thrown around. I sit back and laugh, they simply need to be safe, competant, keep up with traffic and brake, some do that better than others around here but to label them capable of any real "performance" is quite silly.
I'm glad you can laugh. Laughter is good for your health and I'm happy to help out. You describe a 4 cylinder 1st gen Dodge Caravan ("they simply need to be safe, competant, keep up with traffic and brake") so I assume that is what you drive since that is all you need...not that there is anything wrong with that. I prefer to be silly and have a vehicle that reaches somewhere above the basic needs level...regardless how silly I am. In the case of the MDX...all I was trying to relay in my posts was that if there is a better handling three row SUV out there for $40 grand I couldn't find it.
"$20k will get you any number of "performance" street cars and even a spec miata/944/e30 & a season of entry fees if you really want to get serious about driving "performance" or learning how to drive..."
...but why can't I enjoy that vehicle (performance street car that I only use by my self) along with enjoying my above average performing MDX when I am on, say vacation with my family? Oh...and the fact you are insisting on having this laugh tells me all I need to know regarding your and my performance driving abilities.
Didn't intend for it to be taken personally mate. Sorry to have offended. Maybe I could have chosen my words more carefully.
Oh, and thanks for worrying so about my bank account.
I'm not. I worry enough about my own. I'm referring more to my opinion of the price for this particular vehicle compared to others that I perceive as being in the same league due to shared primary purposes. Your bank account or mine aside, I don't think the price of the MDX is warranted given the other vehicles available to prospective buyers. Just my humble opinion. I'm sure you or some others may think I'm a complete mooyack for buying a Hyundai. Fair enough.
Now when I was alone in my old compact and there was snow/ice on the ground...
Do you live in a larger metropolitan area? In my area, as well as other big cities often go to, Buick, Pontiac and GMC are all together.
It's true that Ford won't give us any details on Mercury but it's not dead yet.
They've completely removed Mercury from television advertising, and we've heard of no new models since the Sable. And Ford usually gives details about the future vehicles.
Your post makes sense, especially given the differences in prices in the Canadian market. Also makes sense if you are comparing base Lambdas (no leather, no sunroof, basic stereo) to a base MDX (similar to loaded Lambdas) in cost alone...they are worlds apart in dollars (Canadian or US), but they (base to base) aren't really competitors anyway in my opinion. The Lambdas that I was looking at and comparing to the MDX were much closer in sticker price...almost equal in fact.
As for the VC...look back in the forum and you will see that although I did not buy one, it wasn't because I did not think it looked like a quality vehicle and and may end up a real bargain for buyers if they hold their value. I love saving money as much as anyone and never intentionally look down at a guy who defines value different than I do...unlike other here...hence my "account" comment to the guy to whom I responded...you know, the one who seems to think he's Michael Schumacher.
As the guy who started this whole thread, agree completely. Tried to point out initially (with only limited success) that I was comparing the MDX with a high-end Lambda as being somewhat price and features comparable. Each has strengths and negatives. I remain at a bit of a loss as to why some folks cannot acknowledge that the other guy's selection criteria might possibly be different from his own and that each can be equally valid for THEM.
I admit to remaining baffled by Canadian pricing. Canada is a very rewarding place to visit and we hope to return there many times. Just glad that we don't have to purchase our cars there
Yes. Pittsburgh. Buicks are huge sellers here. So much so that the big sedans are often referred to as "Pittsburgh Cadillacs". :shades:
Ah, so all this mess is your fault. :P
Let's not bring up who posted #1 (although it's really that Jason guy's fault, lol).
Yeah, that'll fix everything.
I quoted that from a previous poster and made my point from there, and not once do I not say it didn't handle, I only went on to the bigger idea of CUV and "performance" are two different things not once making a swipe at a mdx or otherwise. so apparantly that was more than a little over your head. as for the rest there are more than a few that aren't engineers around so move on and I'd argue that's no different a point to make than me mentioning my track time as a reference to having an idea what "performance" may entail. who's kidding who on the high horse at that point. as for shumacher, you made the comment about driving skills not me.
" I love saving money as much as anyone and never intentionally look down at a guy who defines value different than I do"
not once do I do that, I simply point out that the difference in monies saved from one to another can afford one the opportunity to pursue actual "performance" driving on wknds and having his/her CUV for the day to day shlep as oppopsed to thinking that one is doing any "performance" driving in a CUV loaded full up on a family vacation.
who's the one thinking he's schumacher at that point, it sure isn't me using your logic...
Moving on...I've got this quote directly from your response.
"$20k will get you any number of "performance" street cars and even a spec miata/944/e30 & a season of entry fees if you really want to get serious about driving "performance" or learning how to drive..."
"...learning how to drive." It was meant to be an insult like most of your posts and I am responding in kind. I've done a bit of track driving as well...I'm beyond needing to "learn how to drive" and I know what performance driving is. I can also tell that an MDX handles much better than a FS. It's not even close. If I or anyone else choose to make that part of my buying decision, laugh away...at least I have something I enjoy driving when I'm fulfilling family responsibilities rather than something to "shlep" around in. In closing, owning an Italian car does not make you Schumacher, particularly if that Italian car is an Alfa rather than a Ferrari...that was the point. Half of your posts are meant to be insults...don't pretend that they're not...and mine was meant to be an insult as well.
And an even better place to live!
About all these posts, with which I have a hard time keeping up. So I here I go way off topic as I'm wont to do...
We're all talking about the same thing..."value". And value is defined differently by all of us. And I realize all of you get that already. So I think everyone is simply articulating their own definitions of value and how those led to the purchase they made or intend to make. Which ultimately is very relevant to this thread about analyzing/comparing these various runabouts.
And I generally think the majority of us are entering into all of our communication with the shared assumption that while we may have made a certain choice, we recognize that choice was best for only "us". Goes without saying for most of us. There's a couple here who seem to want to armwrestle and champion their particular vehicle above all others - pointless exercise - but it's not pervasive.
I think of it like me and my buddy sitting on the porch with a beer. Or several. He's stupified that I bought a piece a *&%^ Hyundai while I think he's three vegetables short of a salad for sinking $N into his Audi. Then good ol' what's his name stops buy who never misses a chance to tell us we're both knuckleheads and ask us why we can't see the beauty in his new whatever it is. Good times! I like these chats.
#6018 of 6048 Re: Lambda vs. MDX [cjsb] by freealfas Feb 25, 2008 (9:18 am)Save | Reply
Total Posts: 660
Member Since:
Aug 04, 2005
Replying to: cjsb (Feb 25, 2008 8:12 am)
"But an extra $20K front end investment?! C'mon! If one wants to "drive" I'm not sure why one would be looking at 16 foot long three row thingamajigs a"
hence the fallacy of "performance" CUV's...your point sums it up with all the "enthusiast" bravado that get's thrown around. I sit back and laugh, they simply need to be safe, competant, keep up with traffic and brake, some do that better than others around here but to label them capable of any real "performance" is quite silly.
$20k will get you any number of "performance" street cars and even a spec miata/944/e30 & a season of entry fees if you really want to get serious about driving "performance" or learning how to drive...
"your statement"(cjsb) who I responded to was who I was talking to, NOT YOU. If you'll note I make a general statement about performance statements and CUV's, yes you sparked it but my quote was directed at no one in particular as I thought I inferred.
I further went on to make another statement about what anybody not just you(but apparantly this tirade is all about you) could spend and get with the difference of $20k to have both a CUV and enjoy the opportunity to ACTUALLY get involved with some more real level of "performance" driving.
Not once did I slander a mdx in making any of these comments, not once did I mention a FS like you feel a need to, not once did I address anything DIRECTLY to you other than when posted by you after you got an assumption about me incorrect.
"I can also tell that an MDX handles much better than a FS. It's not even close."
have you driven a FS to be able to stae this factually or is this your opinion? not that I'm arguing, I just want to know whether you are basing this in any kind of personal experience?
" If I or anyone else choose to make that part of my buying decision, laugh away...at least I have something I enjoy driving when I'm fulfilling family responsibilities rather than something to "shlep" around in"
your right, you can buy what you want, but who's the one with shumacher aspirations while driving a CUV as opposed to having a CUV that is nice to drive/live with AND a track car in the garage to actually partake in the "performance" driving you value so much?
"In closing, owning an Italian car does not make you Schumacher, particularly if that Italian car is an Alfa rather than a Ferrari...that was the point."
not once have I said I was....
"Half of your posts are meant to be insults...don't pretend that they're not..."
to a particular poster maybe but by and large not to the rest so don't assume otherwise like you have as I had no problems with you until today.
"and mine was meant to be an insult as well."
that'll get you yelled at around here, don't ask me how I know....
I see no need to trade insults as you insist I am, move on...
We insist that the discussion will remain civil. Let's all adjust our attitudes and we'll all be happy.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Or 34g Acadia with heated leather and sunroof.
Impossible. Ford killed the Taurus. It was the best selling car in America, then they decided to do that oval thing, then they waited too long to change it, then they killed it. And in my opppinion, the Taurus in it's new reiteration isn't the best Ford could do. I don't think they are even ready for that kind of success.
Sripped? The Acadia never comes "stripped". The SLE (starting at 29990) comes with power seat and steering wheel audio, and tons of other standard features. It seems your veiw of value is limited only to cheapest in price. Still, the Acadia SLT1 starts at 33ish, and you get probably everything you get in the VC, except for the sunroof.
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080115/FREE/134731702/1530/- - - FREE
&
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070411/FREE/304110033&Searc- - - hID=73309871814165
from autoweek
TRACK TEST DATA
STANDING-START ACCELERATION
2008 mdx - 2005 FS
$48.7k(2008) - $28k(2005)
0-60 mph: 8.17 sec/ 8.15 sec
0-quarter-mile: 16.32 sec @ 85.9 mph / 16.25 @ 88mph
BRAKING
60-0 mph: 122 ft / 129 ft
HANDLING
490-foot slalom: 41.3 mph / 42.2 mph
Lateral acceleration (200-foot skidpad): 0.84 g / .74 g
my guess is that you weren't expecting those results...to be quite honest I sure wasn't and I can solve most of the rest of the discrepancy with a decent set of tires other than the Conti's that come on it, of course the mdx owner could do the same though...
Heh- heat on the forum.
And some poster quoted 8.1 seconds for a 0-60 time of the MDX. Motorweek obviously have let someone's wife drive to work in traffic to get that! Car and Driver, and Motortrend got 7.3 seconds last year. From the sources I've seen the FS gets there between 8.6 and 9.0 sec.
A "base" Outlook sells for about $32K in Canada before tax.
It does not include power seats or steering wheel audio. At least it didn't for 2007. I haven't looked at the 08's, so maybe that has changed and I should be more careful - if so I apologize. And I did make the potential error of interchanging the terms Acadia and Outlook with one another. I tend to think the Outlook is the better deal and the better looking, so the Acadia is an afterthought for me as the same at best.
With the "base" Outlook for $32K (as opposed to the $33850 for the VC) you DO NOT get:
1) AWD
2) Sunroof
3) Leather
4) Rear Parking Sonar Assist
5) Steering Wheel Audio
6) Additional Warranty
7) Dual Exhaust
8) Power Heated Seats (not sure about this, it's been a while, could be wrong)
And several more "little things" that my wife and I picked up on.
An Acadia with all that costs a heck of a lot more than $33K. Or $33850.
So what is all that worth? Based on current market trends, those items tend to run one about $6K before tax.
It seems your veiw of value is limited only to cheapest in price.
After everything I've posted, that's what you have inferred? Wow. Have I done that bad a job making my points about value? I give up. I just told a real estate agent today that my price range for a house spans about a quarter million dollars from low end to high end. I'd be happy at the high end if I felt it represents the best "value". And that best "value" could be had at either end of that spectrum.
This is me waving a white flag on "value".
I don't see how that's relevant.
And in my opppinion, the Taurus in it's new reiteration isn't the best Ford could do.
No, it is not. Mulally even said so himself. They even made fun of it actually and you can read that here. An all new one is coming soon.
I wasn't comparing the Flex to the Taurus. But the Taurus was the last really big hit Ford had and for all we know the Flex could be the next. I doubt it too, but one never knows.
I don't think they are even ready for that kind of success.
Not too long ago they definitely were not. For example, if the Fusion was a huge hit they would not have been able to produce enough. Now that they have 3 or 4 flexible plants that can produce different vehicles based on the same platform (like Honda and Toyota have been doing for a long time now) they may very well be ready.
Mea Culpa
Guess I'll keep my mouth shut for awhile. Some people really get excited. In the overall scheme of things, its just a car.
Send Out the Clones
Chrysler Rethinks Idea of Selling Many Versions of the Same Car
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB120370187213886201-1BXMQ6rs_5RVn9_tS_VmRZ- gstxs_20080325.html
Because I am getting an Enclave soon, I am showing this part of the article:
But in a market with more than 300 different models -- depending on how you count -- fielding two or three or even four of the same basic car can lead to some very thin slices of pie, especially when increasingly well-informed shoppers can figure out in two or three mouse clicks that a Saturn Outlook and a Buick Enclave and a GMC Acadia are just three different styling takes on the same large crossover wagon.
In the case of those GM wagons, consumers have voted in favor of the Buick and GMC designs. The Enclave and Acadia, as of Jan. 31, had inventories of 41 days and 51 days, respectively. The average Enclave is off the dealer lot in just 15 days at an average transaction price of $38,479, according to data from the Power Information Network.
Meanwhile, however, GM is passing up potential Enclave and Acadia sales because the factory that builds those two vehicles has also spent time building Outlooks that sit unsold on dealer lots. As of Jan. 31, 10,690 Saturn Outlooks -- 138 days worth -- were waiting for buyers. GM has offered 0% financing deals and other incentives to get Outlooks moving. When Outlooks do sell, they go out at an average transaction price of $32,824 -- nearly $6,000 less than the Buick Enclave. From December through Feb. 17, just over 19% of the Outlooks sold went out on loans with interest rates under 5% -- reflecting a 0% promotion -- compared to 6.3% of the Enclaves sold. (Average cash rebates for Enclaves and Outlooks were virtually the same, $921 and $922 respectively, according to Power Information Network data.) What will happen when GM rolls out a Chevy version of the same wagon -- expanding the clone family to four -- is anyone's guess.
I believe that GM has already altered their production schedule at their lambda factory to concentrate on Enclaves and Acadias. They don't need to keep making so many Outlooks as their sales are the weakest of the three.
When the Chevy Traverse comes out, I predict that it will reduce sales of the Outlook and GMs smaller SUV/CUVs, but have very little impact on the Enclave and Acadia sales. Plus, I suspect it will be the biggest seller of the four Lambdas.
Some other interesting info in the article includes: How hot the Enclave still is. They sit on the dealer's lot an average of 15 days. While the Acadia sits for 30 days and the Outlook sits for 53 days.
And you have to feel sorry for Chrysler. They simply can't get people to buy their vehicles.
I also found it interesting that the typical Enclave buyer is a 53 year old male (wow, that's me!).
in a touch of irony....LOL
They sort of fall at opposite ends of the spectrum, IMHO.
Point is, drive them both, you'll know right away which one you prefer.