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Crossover SUV Comparison

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Comments

  • jimmy2xjimmy2x Member Posts: 124
    Well, you are correct. We've moved many times but generally long distance (retired USN) so have not moved myself except when I was young and single. Did not have enough stuff then to worry about.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    "How is and Odyssey more practical than a Sienna?"

    For one thing, it's less expensive.

    Edge vs. CR-V:
    You have to cut me a little slack there. I'm totally shocked. I think it's reasonable to say that most would believe a car 7 inches longer in length would have signifigcantly more interior space. But I did say myself, I'd rather have the CR-V. I'm not a huge Edge fan.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    "But only have their exterior styling to make them stand out"

    Funny you say that. Not too long ago that was no where near true (i.e. Freestyle and Fivehundred).
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    The Odyssey EX-L w/ navi and DVD vs Sienna Limited when comparably priced is 36445 vs 37945 (huge difference-not) What is ridicoulous about Honda is that the Touring STARTS at 40g.

    After sitting in a loaded model, I'd say the Journey is priced just right. A bit sheaper than competitors.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Journey - still haven't been inside one yet. My concern is the local dealer has then for $27-31k, which seems like a lot given it's based on the Avenger sedan (which sells under $20k mostly). That seems like quite a stretch. Perhaps too close to the Grand Caravan, also.

    I just saw one on the road today going to dinner with the family. It actually looked a lot like the child of a Caravan and Avenger. It was pretty uninspiring IMO but not necessarily unattractive. I guess you could say the styling is very safe. It was a lot smaller than I expected too. Our Explorer seemed to dwarf it and it looked to be about as big as a Ford Edge only without the slanted rear glass. I guess that's how they squeeze the 3rd row in there.

    That being said, I'm still somewhat intrigued with this new CUV. The unique storage options inside and the somewhat reasonable price make it attractive to me. We'll check it out at the car show in April. If it meets the wife's approval we'll add it to the list. I'm not exactly comfortable buying a Dodge product but their warranty could solve that problem. Plus we would lease it.
  • carabelcarabel Member Posts: 43
    Don't rule out the current Honda Pilot incentives. For what they are offering with heavy incentives, you may find it compelling versus other choices other than a minivan. If you don't mind the somewhat dated look - which I don't think is bad since it is the traditional SUV look, I think overall value and safety will rate the Pilot a number 1 choice right now. Extra space in case you need it. MPG is in par with most CUV's or you take a little hit. Plus the pilot will most likely fare better against any CUV impact. It runs on regular gas. Check out the lease incentives - I got it for 259/month for the base model. For 299 per month, you will get an upgraded trim. I returned my Sienna since my children are now older. The minivan is unbeatable for children under 6 years old, but perception is it ain't cool - which I never cared about either.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    You're not comfortable buying a Dodge product? You're leasing a Ford! Are you scared Chrysler will go out of business after you sign the papers?

    As for size, the Journey really isn't small- it's as long as your Explorer, in fact. But the third row won't measure up.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    Yeah, but what about finance rates? I know Honda offers some big incentives on those, too, but not as big as the leases. I'm sure they are still attractive rates though.
  • qs933qs933 Member Posts: 302
    That being said, I'm still somewhat intrigued with this new CUV. The unique storage options inside and the somewhat reasonable price make it attractive to me.

    I checked out the Journey at my local auto show and was not impressed with the quality and feel of the interior materials. The R/T with leather that I sat in had lots of hard, shiny, oddly textured plastics on the dash and other areas. I also did not care for the contrasting colors of the leather (black with grey inserts), though I think there's also a tan or khaki that's available.

    For the exterior, the only thing that caught my eye were the 19" chrome wheels. :)
  • carabelcarabel Member Posts: 43
    Lowest price I've heard for an outright buy base model is 21K for a honda VP. Finance rates are below 1%. But I would lease it since the lease rates are also awesome, and 3 years from now, you have a choice to buy it or walk away and get a consumer debugged Journey then.
  • dinomartinidinomartini Member Posts: 5
    I sat in three differant Dodge Journey's this weekend and compared to the compeition, the Pilot, Veracruz, Acadia/Outlook/Enclave, ect, I dont see any advantages with the journey. Styling is subjective I guess, but it isnt that good looking. The interior feels pretty cheap, the third row is useless. The V6 is noisy... It sort of feels like its not quite finished.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    You're not comfortable buying a Dodge product? You're leasing a Ford! Are you scared Chrysler will go out of business after you sign the papers?

    Not at all. I'm afraid I'll have to replace the transmission 2 or 3 times in the time I own it like my sister had to do with her Caravan.

    If Ford, GM, or Chrysler go out of business while I'm leasing one of their vehicles I'm still going to have to pay someone and will still have to turn the vehicle in when the lease is over. Why would anyone worry about that?
  • mattandimattandi Member Posts: 588
    Where did you see a 3 row Journey? I understood they would not be available for a while.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    The Journey will start at under $20K, so that's an advantage over the Pilot, Veracruz, Acadia/Outlook/Enclave, ect.
  • mattandimattandi Member Posts: 588
    Even nicely equipped it can come in under $30k. Fully loaded RT AWD tops out at about $35k. Price is quite competitive.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The price doesn't seem too competitive with a Santa Fe, which seems to be the size-competitor, to me.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Our Subaru store just got a shipment of the new Foresters. They are look a heck of a lot nicer, but, they almost look smaller as well. Overall, nice job. They should sell well, as they do very well in my area.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Indeed, and I was able to test drive one last week. I really liked it.

    Here's my write-up (including my nit-picks):

    ateixeira, "2009 Subaru Forester" #441, 13 Mar 2008 11:27 am

    What makes it stand-out among the compact crossovers, IMO, it how user-friendly and space efficient it is. You sit higher in this new one, and see everything, with narrow pillars and a generous green house. You can see every corner of the car. The moonroof is enormous, too.

    The back seat is a lot better than my old 1998 Forester's, yet it's still compact outside and easy to park. The cargo area is better too, due to much smaller shock towers intruding less.

    I test drove it by myself, and we're actually shopping for my wife's car, so we will go back and still test drive a few competitors. Lookin' good, though.
  • mattandimattandi Member Posts: 588
    Let's see.

    Base Santa Fe @ $21k
    Base Journey @ $19k

    Base Santa Fe has 3.3l 6cyl w/5spd manual (4spd auto + about $1k)
    Base Journey has 2.4l 4cyl w/4spd auto (jump up to 3.5l 6cyl w/6spd auto comes to about $22k)

    To get 3 row Santa Fe requires Limited trim plus option package. Totals about $30k.
    3 row Journey can be had about $22-23k.

    Santa Fe tops out at about $35k
    Journey tops out at about $35k

    Similar configurations come to similar prices. Feature for feature comes down to preferences and perception. Call me crazy, but on the whole that appears to be pretty good competition.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    SF gets deep discounts, though. You can get them in the teens, for a base model.

    I guess that could happen to the Journey over time, as well.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Being a Dodge, you're probably right. Then they'll fall in line.
  • mattandimattandi Member Posts: 588
    Even now the Santa Fe has better incentives available - $2k v. $1k. I'm sure Chrysler would rather not play the incentive game, but . . .
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Incentive game? That's right up Chrysler's alley! That's how they sell cars, incentives, gimmicks, "lifetime warranty's". When they run 0% for 72 months, that brings out the scum of scum who have no business buying a car to begin with.
  • qs933qs933 Member Posts: 302
    Where did you see a 3 row Journey?

    I'm pretty sure my auto show -- which uses cars from dealers' lots -- had a 3-row Journey. I remember not sitting in it because I didn't see the point in squeezing myself in there (it wasn't a serious contender on my list for other reasons).
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I should correct myself. The new Foresters are actually bigger. A lot bigger. Also, this interior is a carbon copy of the Impreza. Materials are a bit too plasticy for my tastes, but then again, what mfgr is not using an abundance of plastics now a days.

    My father in law is most likely going to trade his 2007 CX-7 for a new Forester simply because of fuel economy. 20 MPG highway is just not cutting it for him anymore. He used to get 25 mpg highway in his 2004 Forester. Yes, you loose gobs of horsepower, and loose an edge in handling, but, premium fuel and 20 mpg highway is just killing him. As much as a Mazda fan I am, I cannot disagree with the fact that the Forester is a better economical choice.

    On a side note, 24K gets you a really really nice equipped Forester. Big moon roof, power everything, great AWD system and 26 mpg highway. If I were in the market for a fuel efficient CUV, I would choose the Forester over the likes of the CR-V and RAV-4.
  • mattandimattandi Member Posts: 588
    Ok, that's cool. I haven't seen one yet. Was told they will be here in about a month or so. I have made a point of getting into and/or riding in the third row of everything we have looked at. My initial impression/expectations changed on a few after doing so.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Forester interior indeed resembles the Impreza, but they made some important upgrades. The door panels, for instance, are much nicer, and both elbows rest on padded surfaces.

    I have two kids, and the back seat has that fold-out cupholder/storage bin, which works perfectly for us when it's just the 4 of us on an outing. We'll have the big van when we need more space.

    There is more headroom and rear legroom, too. The Impreza wasn't big enough for us, but the Forester seems just right.

    The first-year CX7 required premium fuel, right? I think Mazda changed that for 2008, didn't they? That would help somewhat. It compares more closely to the Forester XT (turbo), but just like your father-in-law we're shopping for efficiency this time around.

    24k gets the X Premium model, which has that nice moonroof, but we might spring for the LL Bean model to get heated leather seats and some other goodies.

    Chase Bank has a Subaru credit card and you can earn 3% back in Subaru Bucks. We have $1600 accumulated. Plus IMBA and ACA members qualify for VIP pricing on Subarus, which is 2% under invoice. That puts the LL Bean model at just under $25k, a great value. After the Subaru Bucks we're talking roughly $23.5k, and that's loaded with everything minus NAV (I have a Garmin).

    Do you qualify for your father-in-law? Maybe check in to that.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "If I were in the market for a fuel efficient CUV, I would choose the Forester over the likes of the CR-V and RAV-4."

    If you'll check the CR-V forums, I think you'll find that the CR-V has comparable MPG, around 27 on the highway.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    This is a good trend, as a matter of fact.

    There used to be only a couple of compact crossovers that were geniunely fuel efficient, now there are several.

    Back in 1998, it was RAV4, CR-V, or Forester. That was pretty much it.

    Now you can add the Rogue, Outlander, Escape/Tribue hybrids, Vue Greenline, and a few others.

    Feel free to epand on that list. I'm sure there are others.

    I predict a continued shift towards smaller crossovers given oil hit $111/barrel the other day.
  • vad1819vad1819 Member Posts: 309
    I think you should consider a VUE also. It's better looking car, then CR-V or Forester. You can get Hybrid with 175 hp engine and as option AWD, if you need it for less money.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, did a quick search and found a nice resource:

    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byclass.htm

    We should add the Highlander and RX hybrids, the Jeep Compass and Patriot, the Mariner hybrid, Element, Tucson, and even the Tahoe hybrid sneaks on there (my cutoff point was 20mpg city).

    I don't think the Outback, HHR, and PT belong on a list of SUVs, but those are on there, too.

    I searched again for 1998 models, just for reference, and found a much smaller list: X90, RAV4, Tracker/Sidekick, and Montero Sport. When adjusted for current EPA standards even the CR-V and Forester dropped off that list.

    Not only is it nice to see we have many more choices now, but also note that the newer ones are much more powerful, safer, and bigger.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Vue is worthy of consideration, but remember the 4 cylinder Greenline model is a mild hybrid. The V6 will be a more sophisticated twin-mode hybrid, but by using the more powerful engine they're sacrificing some fuel economy.

    I wish the more advanced hybrid used the more efficient engine. Motorweek compared small CUVs and the Vue Greenline only beat the CR-V by 1 mpg in their tests, hardly worth mentioning. The Escape hybrid did notably better.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I know the CR-V is quite efficient, however, they feel anemic and sluggish. They also have a really bad blind spot is the D pillar. The Forester has much better visibility and is more powerful. I also happen to actually like the new styling of the Forester as well. It's been a while since Subaru made an attractive vehicle.

    I might be looking at one for my wife. She has a 2002 Impreza, and it has around 70K on it. She has toyed with the idea of getting a bigger car. She will not buy one without AWD. That leaves here with a short list of cars she likes, the new Impreza, Legacy, Forester, and CX-7. The CX-7 is a bit too expensive and we are trying to concentrate of fuel economy. Even with my employee discount through Mazda, and the $2,000 dealer engagement cash, they are a bit more money then the others. If gas was under $3.00/gal, we could swing the CX-7. I tried to pitch the Tribute to her, and that was an emphatic "no, it's ugly"( I'm even a salesman with my family :shades: ). Anyways, that's her thought process. We will see what happens. She might not even do anything for a while.

    On a side note, I have heard rumblings that Mazda will be producing a smaller CUV to replace the Tribute, called the CX-5. It is apparently going to be based off of the Mazda3 platform, and have similar looks to the CX-7. Also, it would use either Mazda's new MZR 2.5L or the MZR 2.0L direct injection engine w/ around 175hp, and improved fuel economy. Mazda is also working on a new VV-T system that is supposed to work very similar to VTEC, and is supposed to debut in the new 2.0L engine. I hope this new CX-5 rumor is true. That car would be worth a look.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    The Escape hybrid did notably better.

    Try and find a new Escape Hybrid on dealer lots. Good luck. Our F/L/M store, which is very large, has trouble getting any. Most of the Escape Hybrids are actually fleet vehicles, the rest are usually ordered specifically for customers. I have seen more Mariner Hybrids out there, but, even those are hard to get. BTY, I think the Mariner Hybrid looks so much better. The Tribute Hybrid, same as the Escape/Mariner, is only sold in CA.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Aren't they used as NYC cabs now? That alone is a lot of demand.

    A CX-5 with a 2.0l would likely be a real fuel miser. They just would have to keep it light. Even a 2.3l would be OK.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Mazda is making the 2.3 into a 2.5. They are revising the 2.0. It seems to be that the newer 2.5 would be the engine of choice for a CX-5, if in fact Mazda does make one.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm sure this is in response to competitors, which seem to be offering 2.5l engine sizes nowadays (for their big 4 bangers).

    Credit balance shafts. Now 4 bangers can be bigger and still remain smooth.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    very true
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Try and find a new Escape Hybrid on dealer lots. Good luck. Our F/L/M store, which is very large, has trouble getting any.

    I just read somewhere that the 2008 hybrids are sold out and anyone who wants one will have to wait for the 2009. I doubt those will be any easier to find though.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    "Not at all. I'm afraid I'll have to replace the transmission 2 or 3 times in the time I own it..."

    I know not all Chryslers are reliability saints, but my brother owned his Caravan for ten years (!) and besides an electrical problem in the begining, his ownership has been almost flawless. Though I had one I can't really speak from experience because I only had it for 2 years.

    On the other hand, I do have a cousin who's 5 year old Expedition is constant problem, and a friend who's Windstar is "no longer with us". My experience with for (which was years ago ) wans't all that bad, though.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    Not sure if anyone already commented on this, but Edmunds just said after a longterm test that the RX400H got dissapointing fuel mileage for a Hybrid. What does this say about the Highlander Hybrid? I'm guessing those numbers aren't as great as everyone thinks, either.

    By the way, I just got back from a trip to Florida, where I saw tons of Suzuki XL-7's. They were everywhere. It was ridiculous. Mosst of them were obviously rentals, but I've still never seen that many. I never see them here. Must not be that popular.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    but Edmunds just said after a longterm test that the RX400H got dissapointing fuel mileage for a Hybrid. What does this say about the Highlander Hybrid?

    Simple, really. The RX400H wasn't designed as a gas-sipping hybrid. It was designed as a PERFORMANCE hybrid. Trying to get PERFORMANCE while using less gasoline than the typical "performance wagon".

    If you want to save on gas (and on initial cost of a vehicle), try the Toyota Corolla with a 4-banger and a stick.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Interesting article, and I agree with the points he made.

    feels much like a Taurus X with a bit more space, a bit less noise, and a bit more comfort

    It will be interesting to see if by adding a dose of style and character, as opposed to major substantive changes, will help this sell better than the Freestyle/Taurus X.

    I'm guessing yes, it will.

    Even though it's very similar underneath it all, those first two rows seem more like a First Class or at least Business Class seat on a high-end airline.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Aren't they used as NYC cabs now? That alone is a lot of demand.

    On Thursday, I went to LGA airport to pick up my sister-in-law and her boyfriend that came to visit from FL for Easter weekend, and sure enough, parked all over the place at arrivals, were Escape Hybrid taxis. Then again on Friday, when we went to the auto show in NY, they were every where once again.

    This makes me wonder if Ford is making all they really can on these vehicles, since they are technically fleet. They are sold at heavy discount. Does not sound like smart business to me.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I saw the Lincoln MKT up close and personal at the NY auto show, and I must say, if Lincoln does not build this, they are CRAZY! This CUV is a 10 out of 10! If Lincoln does in fact build this, I hope they keep as much of the design intact. The new front grille design is great. If Lincoln needs this vehicle if they want to compete with Caddy.

    That brings me to another point about Caddy. They have a lot in the pipe line that looks to be very competitive. It's about time too. No longer are they going for the senior citizen demographic.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    I saw the Lincoln MKT up close and personal at the NY auto show, and I must say, if Lincoln does not build this, they are CRAZY!

    It was just given the green light a few days ago. You may pop the champagne cork now. :P
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    This makes me wonder if Ford is making all they really can on these vehicles, since they are technically fleet.

    This is a correct statement - they are selling for fleet service.

    They are sold at heavy discount.

    This we don't know. The presumption is that they should be heavily discounted but taxi cab companies are buying and putting hybrids into service to appease their customers and save money on fuel.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Well, traditionally, fleet vehicles are sold at a heavy discount. I was basing my statement on that.

    It is quite smart for taxi companies to use them since most driving is city driving, and they can get over 30mpg's. Looks like the cab companies can rake in the profits. But, then again, I'm sure they can pick up a Crown Vic for a heck of a lot less then an Escape Hybrid. So, I guess the money might take a while to roll in and show a more profitable bottom line.
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    now I HAVE to go buy one since I actually live in Chicago's hip Ukrainian village...LOL... diesel, I just want a diesel in it though... please, c'mon Ford... I said please...
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