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For one thing, it's less expensive.
Edge vs. CR-V:
You have to cut me a little slack there. I'm totally shocked. I think it's reasonable to say that most would believe a car 7 inches longer in length would have signifigcantly more interior space. But I did say myself, I'd rather have the CR-V. I'm not a huge Edge fan.
Funny you say that. Not too long ago that was no where near true (i.e. Freestyle and Fivehundred).
After sitting in a loaded model, I'd say the Journey is priced just right. A bit sheaper than competitors.
I just saw one on the road today going to dinner with the family. It actually looked a lot like the child of a Caravan and Avenger. It was pretty uninspiring IMO but not necessarily unattractive. I guess you could say the styling is very safe. It was a lot smaller than I expected too. Our Explorer seemed to dwarf it and it looked to be about as big as a Ford Edge only without the slanted rear glass. I guess that's how they squeeze the 3rd row in there.
That being said, I'm still somewhat intrigued with this new CUV. The unique storage options inside and the somewhat reasonable price make it attractive to me. We'll check it out at the car show in April. If it meets the wife's approval we'll add it to the list. I'm not exactly comfortable buying a Dodge product but their warranty could solve that problem. Plus we would lease it.
As for size, the Journey really isn't small- it's as long as your Explorer, in fact. But the third row won't measure up.
I checked out the Journey at my local auto show and was not impressed with the quality and feel of the interior materials. The R/T with leather that I sat in had lots of hard, shiny, oddly textured plastics on the dash and other areas. I also did not care for the contrasting colors of the leather (black with grey inserts), though I think there's also a tan or khaki that's available.
For the exterior, the only thing that caught my eye were the 19" chrome wheels.
Not at all. I'm afraid I'll have to replace the transmission 2 or 3 times in the time I own it like my sister had to do with her Caravan.
If Ford, GM, or Chrysler go out of business while I'm leasing one of their vehicles I'm still going to have to pay someone and will still have to turn the vehicle in when the lease is over. Why would anyone worry about that?
Here's my write-up (including my nit-picks):
ateixeira, "2009 Subaru Forester" #441, 13 Mar 2008 11:27 am
What makes it stand-out among the compact crossovers, IMO, it how user-friendly and space efficient it is. You sit higher in this new one, and see everything, with narrow pillars and a generous green house. You can see every corner of the car. The moonroof is enormous, too.
The back seat is a lot better than my old 1998 Forester's, yet it's still compact outside and easy to park. The cargo area is better too, due to much smaller shock towers intruding less.
I test drove it by myself, and we're actually shopping for my wife's car, so we will go back and still test drive a few competitors. Lookin' good, though.
Base Santa Fe @ $21k
Base Journey @ $19k
Base Santa Fe has 3.3l 6cyl w/5spd manual (4spd auto + about $1k)
Base Journey has 2.4l 4cyl w/4spd auto (jump up to 3.5l 6cyl w/6spd auto comes to about $22k)
To get 3 row Santa Fe requires Limited trim plus option package. Totals about $30k.
3 row Journey can be had about $22-23k.
Santa Fe tops out at about $35k
Journey tops out at about $35k
Similar configurations come to similar prices. Feature for feature comes down to preferences and perception. Call me crazy, but on the whole that appears to be pretty good competition.
I guess that could happen to the Journey over time, as well.
I'm pretty sure my auto show -- which uses cars from dealers' lots -- had a 3-row Journey. I remember not sitting in it because I didn't see the point in squeezing myself in there (it wasn't a serious contender on my list for other reasons).
My father in law is most likely going to trade his 2007 CX-7 for a new Forester simply because of fuel economy. 20 MPG highway is just not cutting it for him anymore. He used to get 25 mpg highway in his 2004 Forester. Yes, you loose gobs of horsepower, and loose an edge in handling, but, premium fuel and 20 mpg highway is just killing him. As much as a Mazda fan I am, I cannot disagree with the fact that the Forester is a better economical choice.
On a side note, 24K gets you a really really nice equipped Forester. Big moon roof, power everything, great AWD system and 26 mpg highway. If I were in the market for a fuel efficient CUV, I would choose the Forester over the likes of the CR-V and RAV-4.
I have two kids, and the back seat has that fold-out cupholder/storage bin, which works perfectly for us when it's just the 4 of us on an outing. We'll have the big van when we need more space.
There is more headroom and rear legroom, too. The Impreza wasn't big enough for us, but the Forester seems just right.
The first-year CX7 required premium fuel, right? I think Mazda changed that for 2008, didn't they? That would help somewhat. It compares more closely to the Forester XT (turbo), but just like your father-in-law we're shopping for efficiency this time around.
24k gets the X Premium model, which has that nice moonroof, but we might spring for the LL Bean model to get heated leather seats and some other goodies.
Chase Bank has a Subaru credit card and you can earn 3% back in Subaru Bucks. We have $1600 accumulated. Plus IMBA and ACA members qualify for VIP pricing on Subarus, which is 2% under invoice. That puts the LL Bean model at just under $25k, a great value. After the Subaru Bucks we're talking roughly $23.5k, and that's loaded with everything minus NAV (I have a Garmin).
Do you qualify for your father-in-law? Maybe check in to that.
If you'll check the CR-V forums, I think you'll find that the CR-V has comparable MPG, around 27 on the highway.
There used to be only a couple of compact crossovers that were geniunely fuel efficient, now there are several.
Back in 1998, it was RAV4, CR-V, or Forester. That was pretty much it.
Now you can add the Rogue, Outlander, Escape/Tribue hybrids, Vue Greenline, and a few others.
Feel free to epand on that list. I'm sure there are others.
I predict a continued shift towards smaller crossovers given oil hit $111/barrel the other day.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byclass.htm
We should add the Highlander and RX hybrids, the Jeep Compass and Patriot, the Mariner hybrid, Element, Tucson, and even the Tahoe hybrid sneaks on there (my cutoff point was 20mpg city).
I don't think the Outback, HHR, and PT belong on a list of SUVs, but those are on there, too.
I searched again for 1998 models, just for reference, and found a much smaller list: X90, RAV4, Tracker/Sidekick, and Montero Sport. When adjusted for current EPA standards even the CR-V and Forester dropped off that list.
Not only is it nice to see we have many more choices now, but also note that the newer ones are much more powerful, safer, and bigger.
I wish the more advanced hybrid used the more efficient engine. Motorweek compared small CUVs and the Vue Greenline only beat the CR-V by 1 mpg in their tests, hardly worth mentioning. The Escape hybrid did notably better.
I might be looking at one for my wife. She has a 2002 Impreza, and it has around 70K on it. She has toyed with the idea of getting a bigger car. She will not buy one without AWD. That leaves here with a short list of cars she likes, the new Impreza, Legacy, Forester, and CX-7. The CX-7 is a bit too expensive and we are trying to concentrate of fuel economy. Even with my employee discount through Mazda, and the $2,000 dealer engagement cash, they are a bit more money then the others. If gas was under $3.00/gal, we could swing the CX-7. I tried to pitch the Tribute to her, and that was an emphatic "no, it's ugly"( I'm even a salesman with my family :shades: ). Anyways, that's her thought process. We will see what happens. She might not even do anything for a while.
On a side note, I have heard rumblings that Mazda will be producing a smaller CUV to replace the Tribute, called the CX-5. It is apparently going to be based off of the Mazda3 platform, and have similar looks to the CX-7. Also, it would use either Mazda's new MZR 2.5L or the MZR 2.0L direct injection engine w/ around 175hp, and improved fuel economy. Mazda is also working on a new VV-T system that is supposed to work very similar to VTEC, and is supposed to debut in the new 2.0L engine. I hope this new CX-5 rumor is true. That car would be worth a look.
Try and find a new Escape Hybrid on dealer lots. Good luck. Our F/L/M store, which is very large, has trouble getting any. Most of the Escape Hybrids are actually fleet vehicles, the rest are usually ordered specifically for customers. I have seen more Mariner Hybrids out there, but, even those are hard to get. BTY, I think the Mariner Hybrid looks so much better. The Tribute Hybrid, same as the Escape/Mariner, is only sold in CA.
A CX-5 with a 2.0l would likely be a real fuel miser. They just would have to keep it light. Even a 2.3l would be OK.
Credit balance shafts. Now 4 bangers can be bigger and still remain smooth.
I just read somewhere that the 2008 hybrids are sold out and anyone who wants one will have to wait for the 2009. I doubt those will be any easier to find though.
I know not all Chryslers are reliability saints, but my brother owned his Caravan for ten years (!) and besides an electrical problem in the begining, his ownership has been almost flawless. Though I had one I can't really speak from experience because I only had it for 2 years.
On the other hand, I do have a cousin who's 5 year old Expedition is constant problem, and a friend who's Windstar is "no longer with us". My experience with for (which was years ago ) wans't all that bad, though.
By the way, I just got back from a trip to Florida, where I saw tons of Suzuki XL-7's. They were everywhere. It was ridiculous. Mosst of them were obviously rentals, but I've still never seen that many. I never see them here. Must not be that popular.
Simple, really. The RX400H wasn't designed as a gas-sipping hybrid. It was designed as a PERFORMANCE hybrid. Trying to get PERFORMANCE while using less gasoline than the typical "performance wagon".
If you want to save on gas (and on initial cost of a vehicle), try the Toyota Corolla with a 4-banger and a stick.
feels much like a Taurus X with a bit more space, a bit less noise, and a bit more comfort
It will be interesting to see if by adding a dose of style and character, as opposed to major substantive changes, will help this sell better than the Freestyle/Taurus X.
I'm guessing yes, it will.
Even though it's very similar underneath it all, those first two rows seem more like a First Class or at least Business Class seat on a high-end airline.
On Thursday, I went to LGA airport to pick up my sister-in-law and her boyfriend that came to visit from FL for Easter weekend, and sure enough, parked all over the place at arrivals, were Escape Hybrid taxis. Then again on Friday, when we went to the auto show in NY, they were every where once again.
This makes me wonder if Ford is making all they really can on these vehicles, since they are technically fleet. They are sold at heavy discount. Does not sound like smart business to me.
That brings me to another point about Caddy. They have a lot in the pipe line that looks to be very competitive. It's about time too. No longer are they going for the senior citizen demographic.
It was just given the green light a few days ago. You may pop the champagne cork now. :P
This is a correct statement - they are selling for fleet service.
They are sold at heavy discount.
This we don't know. The presumption is that they should be heavily discounted but taxi cab companies are buying and putting hybrids into service to appease their customers and save money on fuel.
It is quite smart for taxi companies to use them since most driving is city driving, and they can get over 30mpg's. Looks like the cab companies can rake in the profits. But, then again, I'm sure they can pick up a Crown Vic for a heck of a lot less then an Escape Hybrid. So, I guess the money might take a while to roll in and show a more profitable bottom line.