Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options

Crossover SUV Comparison

1…3334363839…142

Comments

  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    That was an interesting comparison. The Vera Cruz shockingly stacked up very well with the Lexus. My only thing is the comparison was too small. They were missing at least one competitor- the MAzda CX9. But then again, that wouldn't have been Lexus vs Lexus wannabe. That would have been two new family crossovers vs an old luxury crossover. I was also really shocked that the LExus beat the Hyundai in over a second in the 0-60 sprint. It shows that Lexus still holds that crown- well- over Hyundai at least.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    Does any one know which handles better, between the FS and Uplander? Which 0-60 times are better?
  • jaymagicjaymagic Member Posts: 309
    MT was harshest on the Lexus for its electronic nannies. They said the Lexus was slightly more upscale in build quality and materials than the Veracruz. BUT, the differences were sooo small that there was no way to justify the price differential, assuming you were buying the vehicle and not the brand name. Just how much are you willing to pay for a vehicle that has the Lexus, BMW, etc. name, but not a lot more than that, to justify the price you have to pay.

    I.E., what's your ego worth??? LOL
  • lwolf99lwolf99 Member Posts: 83
    Thanks to everyone for your comments, but no one actually answered my question.... Can anyone explain to me how the measurements are taken for for 2nd row legroom, 3rd row legroom? Is the seat in front pushed all the way in one direction, while the seat being measured moved all the way in another direction? Are both moved to their middle settings? Etc.

    I know I have to sit in them, compare in person, etc. I am just looking to learn how the measuremenst are taken that are quoted everywhere.

    Thanks in advance.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "I know I have to sit in them, compare in person, etc. I am just looking to learn how the measuremenst are taken that are quoted everywhere."

    The Front and rear seats are both slid all the way back.
  • arumagearumage Member Posts: 922
    Well said. Their was a recent study done in which 200 random people were surveyed. After driving an unbadged Veracruz, 72% said they would buy the Veracruz. After they were told that it was a Hyundai, that number dropped to 52%. The opposite happened with a Toyota. It actually gained 20% on name alone. I can't remember what Toyota vehicle it was though. It just shows how much people's egos are worth.
  • arumagearumage Member Posts: 922
    To correct myself, the RX350 got 18.1mpg and the Veracruz got 19.3mpg.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    BUT, the differences were sooo small that there was no way to justify the price differential, assuming you were buying the vehicle and not the brand name.

    Actually, MT said The step up in luxury from Veracruz to RX were very clear in many areas, like the real wood and build quality (they said some panel in the center stack looked loose, and some plastic colors weren't matched to leather). But they decided that, for the overall package, added to the the over 10 grand price difference, the Veracruz was the better choice. What really made me think about people's egos was the statement they made at the end of the test. They were saying that people who have the RX will more than likely not even give the Veracruz a second thought, and continue to buy Lexus. That really says it all to me. But I have to congradulate Hyundai. When I first saw Hyundai beats Lexus on the front cover of the magazine, I thought it was all for "buy me!" in the magazine section. It's not.
  • mindaugasmindaugas Member Posts: 10
    What does this mean ? 20% of a people are basically stupid! Unfortunatelly ! :cry:
  • kamiller42kamiller42 Member Posts: 13
    This might be a dumb question, but how much difference would there be in a 0-60 between a FWD and AWD? Specifically, with the Veracruz. Ditto the question in regards to MPG.
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    Goes to show you that many folks are very image conscious, and it's their main reason for buying a vehicle, rather than vehicle quality (perceived or otherwise). Let's face it, we're a nation populated by egocentrics.
  • arumagearumage Member Posts: 922
    It's not a dumb question. It depends on how good at launching it is. I've not tried it. The salesman when I test drove it probably would not have approved. :P The FWD version is about 300 lbs lighter so one would think, barring alot of wheelspin, that it would be faster. 1-2mpg better would probably be a good estimate given the same testing routine.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Very true, however that does affect resale. The Lexus RX does quite well, check out the Real-World Trade-in Values discussion here on Edmunds. Someone got $20 grand for a filthy, high mile older RX just because it's a Lexus.

    So you pay more up front, but you get it back later, even after some neglect.

    Sad, but true.
  • arumagearumage Member Posts: 922
    But if you are paying upwards of $7 to $10k more, are you really pocketing alot of that?
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    It just shows how much people's egos are worth.

    Or it shows you how much proven reliability and actual resale value is worth...ie Toyota vs Hyundai.
  • jaymagicjaymagic Member Posts: 309
    MT took both of those into consideration and still picked the Hyundai.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Most of it, yes. It holds a higher % of what you originally paid, I mean.

    Check out that thread. The Veracruz is too new, but look at what a Sante Fe will fetch - pretty disappointing.

    Hyundai has arrived, but public percetion lags a few years behind. Perhaps when the Chinese makes arrives, the Koreans can ditch their rep as the low-budget choice and resale values will improve.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    But if you are paying upwards of $7 to $10k more, are you really pocketing alot of that?

    Definitely. I'm not sure about the RX, but I know you can get a Veracruz well eqquipped (30 grand) for a better price than a 2-3 year old MDX with 35k miles.

    I wonder if people think a vehicle is priced to high, but resale isn't good, then they will buy the vehicle in larger quantities used?
  • arumagearumage Member Posts: 922
    My only point is that the extra paid in at the beginning is not recouped upon resale because because that higher % is lost to the vehicles premium initial price.

    2001-2006 Santa Fe's are odd birds. Their design was certainly polarizing, but I don't think that worked in Hyundai's favor in this particular application. I'm betting resale for 2007 and up will be much better as the design and materials quality are better.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    I'm still trying to convince my friend to order the FS (actually the new TX) from his company instead of the Uplander. It's not going well. He's a minivan guy. He knows that there's no other competition to minivans. He just sat in an FS today and said there is no leg room in rows 2 or 3. What are some points I could use to convince him?
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Member Posts: 626
    I'm still trying to convince my friend to order the FS (actually the new TX) from his company instead of the Uplander. It's not going well. He's a minivan guy. He knows that there's no other competition to minivans. He just sat in an FS today and said there is no leg room in rows 2 or 3. What are some points I could use to convince him? "

    Cant answer your FS question, but why on earth would he be looking at an almost extinct Uplander with no fold in the floor seating? If he's a minivan guy, and it sounds like he's looking for a low price, how about the Kia or DCX vans?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    He knows that there's no other competition to minivans.

    Some of us minivan guys are like that. :blush:

    You could try "new minivans have gotten too big and they won't fit into your garage as easily as a new Freestyle would."

    Karl seems to be getting sick of crossovers, but he's a muscle car kind of guy anyway.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm betting resale for 2007 and up will be much better as the design and materials quality are better

    So would I, but all we can do for now is forecast what residuals will be like 5 years from now.
  • passat_2002passat_2002 Member Posts: 468
    People generally like to make up their own minds about these things. If he's the sort of person who would actually pick a Chevy Uplander over the much slicker and safer Taurus X, then there is probably little you can do to convince him otherwise. These two vehicles are far more different than they are alike.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Why talk him out of a van?

    When you think about it from a practical, rational standpoint, the van wins every time.

    It's the emotional, perhaps even irrational desire for something cool, or something that we think makes us look cool, that gets people to pay more money for less space.

    Keep in mind he wants the van - so that emotion that might make the crossover more appealing just isn't there for your friend.

    I'm not sure the Uplander is the best representative from the van segment, though. It's missing a lot of the key features that the segment leaders have.

    I test drove a Freestyle and it was OK, I guess, just not compelling enough to make me want to own one. Gas mileage was one draw. Compared to vans, though, space just isn't a match. And it looks like a giant station wagon, not a crossover, so the appealing styling isn't there for me, at least. It lacks a key (to me) safety feature - stability control.

    There seem to be a few very vocal FS cheerleaders in this thread, but we're talking about 86.5 cubid feet against 136.7 for the Uplander. That's a pretty enormous difference. Other vans have even more space, enough to lay a sheet of plywood flat on the foor. A few can carry 8 people, too.

    Why should he give that up if he doesn't want to?
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    but why on earth would he be looking at an almost extinct Uplander with no fold in the floor seating?

    It's a company car offerring that he'll purchase after he is given his next choice. But he knows it's no where near the best minivan choice.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    That's the thing. He knows the Taurus is better looking, and safer but he knows that the chevy would be better for long trips. The FS even has more headroom in rows 2 and 3, and more legroom in rows 1 and 2, but he says the van is still more comfortable. I don't know. Maybe I should go look at the Chevy to see for myself.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    Does the 2nd row in the FS slide fore and aft?

    Can any FS owners honestly say you can sit comfortably in the 3rd row for a long period of time?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Yes. There are no convincing data that you are generally further ahead by looking at high resale value. The vehicles with the highest residual values have the least discounts up front and generally have higher list prices. So it only stands to reason that you ought to get more when you sell them.

    Other vehicles are discounted so heavily and/or loaded with incentives that it is no wonder the residual value drops quickly. YOu have to look at five year operational costs, taking into consideration the real discounted sales prices up front and well as the values at end sale.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    MT took both of those into consideration and still picked the Hyundai.

    good for MT
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    I'm still trying to convince my friend to order the FS (actually the new TX) from his company instead of the Uplander. It's not going well. He's a minivan guy. He knows that there's no other competition to minivans. He just sat in an FS today and said there is no leg room in rows 2 or 3. What are some points I could use to convince him?

    Why convince him? What's wrong with a minivan, if it fits his needs better than the Freestyle?
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    And it looks like a giant station wagon

    That's because it IS one. :blush:
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    He just sat in an FS today and said there is no leg room in rows 2 or 3.

    More people space in the Freestyle:

    Freestyle/Uplander specs:
    Front legroom 41.2 " 39.9 "
    Rear legroom 40.4 " 38.9 "
    Third row legroom 33.3 " 36.2 "
    Front headroom 39.4 " 39.8 "
    Rear headroom 39.7 " 38.9 "
    Third row headroom 38.6 " 38.2 "
    Front hiproom 55.5 " 55.8 "
    Rear hiproom 56.0 " 61.6 "
    Third row hiproom 45.9 " 48.3 "
    Front shoulder room 58.4 " 59.9 "
    Rear shoulder room 57.9 " 61.2 "
    Third row shoulder room 50.8 " 48.6 "

    http://www.cars.com/go/compare/trimCompare.jsp?acodes=USB70FOC191A0,USB70CHV301A0
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Combined legroom is 114.9" vs. 115" in favor of the Uplander. Remember you can slide the rows fore/aft.

    There seems to be more than enough headroom in all 3 rows, though the FS has a small edge there.

    Uplander has a big edge in hiproom. Uplander also wins 2 out of 3 rows in shoulder room, and they're the front and middle rows that are used most often.

    Uplander wins 7 out of 12 individual measurements, FS wins 5.

    How exactly does that add up to the Freestyle having more people space? :confuse:

    Objectively and subjectively, Uplander has more people space.

    Even a bad minivan will beat a good crossover for people space.

    Plus you ignore the enormous edge in cargo space, 136.7 vs. 86.5 cubes in favor of the van.

    I have no idea how you can look at those figures and conclude the Freestyle is roomier. :P
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Plus, the Uplander is narrower than the FS, yet offers significantly more interior width. Still don't understand why Ford offers less interior width per exterior width than many of its rivals. Seems like lazy design. The FS and 500/Taurus are very roomy for sure, but it wouldn't have taken much effort at all to get 2 or more extra inches of interior width without increasing the exterior bulk. Are you listening, Ford?
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    What he told me after his test drive is that even though the FS has more headroom, and leg room in various places, the van seats are more comfortable, because real captains chairs are more comfortable than regular car steat, even quads. That's true. My only other argument is that the FS is better quality than the Chevy. I think Consumer reports gave FS a good rating, but gave Chevy a bad rating. This argument won't stand though, as he has been offered the TX, not the FS. I'm still going with him for another test drive.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, I have the annual auto issue with me here.

    FS has a higher overall score, average reliability, 18mpg overall, 0-60 in 9.1s.

    Uplander scores poorly, much worse than avg reliability, 18mpg, 0-60 in 8.8s. So it's quicker but otherwise unimpressive.

    Keep in mind it's the lowest scoring van, though. A poor representative of the segment.

    The Sienna outscores the Freestyle overall, with better than average reliability, 19mpg, 0-60 in 7.8s. It also scores higher in Owner Satisfaction and even Accident Avoidance. It basically beat the FS in every way.

    Just choose the right van. ;)
  • arumagearumage Member Posts: 922
    My employer has a Chevy Uplander as a company vehicle, and I don't think it's comfortable at all. My drive was only about any hour, and the seats were hurting my back. It's also a very tippy feeling vehicle IMO. We also have a slightly older Dodge Caravan as a company vehicle. It's much more comfortable and handles better, but it does feel more underpowered and gets poor gas mileage.
  • arumagearumage Member Posts: 922
    Most people are pulling way better gas mileage and even better 0-60 times than that with the FS.

    There is a fairly big difference in price between the Uplander and Sienna when you start adding options though. Fully loaded models are nearly $4k apart. Good dealer pricing is also much easier to come by with the Uplander.

    The Hyundai Entourage and Kia Sedona both score well and are priced well within the segment. They are the safest minivans on the market too.
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    "Most people are pulling way better gas mileage and even better 0-60 times than that with the FS."

    all the more reason not to give any credit to CR auto reviews, I can see using them for everything else that they review largely but they need to get out of the car review business...
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    What I meant to point out was that the one guy posted that the Freestyle had less legroom, so that's what I meant about the space. The Freestyle has comparable legroom to the Uplander, and saying that a CUV has comparable legroom to a minivan is praise itself.

    Regardless of what you think of the Freestyle, the Uplander is a pretty poor minivan, unless it's a free company car!
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    "It basically beat the FS in every way."

    not if you go to the NHTSA website and look through their ratings which I would give more credence to than CR.

    '05 Freestyle beats the '07 sienna in rollover in both fwd/awd and gets fives stars across the board vs the sienna which gets five stars in all but the driver safety category where it get's 4 stars. I've also seen 33mpg out on the highway in my FS in the real world which I doubt a sienna can do. Yes you give up space, no argument there at all, but you don't give up anything else with the purchase of a FS.
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    And Ford's beating them on other fronts as well...

    "AP
    Ford Wins Most Awards in Rankings
    Wednesday June 6, 1:32 pm ET
    By Jeff Karoub, Associated Press Writer
    Ford Grabs Most Awards in 2007 Vehicle Quality Rankings

    DETROIT (AP) -- Ford supplanted Toyota as the leader of the pack in initial quality rankings, taking the top spot in five of 19 segments in the 2007 survey by J.D. Power and Associates, released Wednesday.
    Porsche again dominated the overall ranking of brands, averaging 91 problems per 100 vehicles as it had last year. That compared with a 2007 industry average of 125 problems per 100 vehicles. Last year it was 124.

    Ford Motor Co. earned segment awards for the Ford Mustang, Lincoln Mark LT, Lincoln MKZ, Mercury Milan and Mazda MX-5 Miata. Mazda is 33.4 percent owned by Ford.

    Toyota Motor Corp., which grabbed the top spot in 11 segments last year, captured only three this year, as did Mercedes-Benz. Toyota's 2007 awards were for the 4Runner, Sequoia and Tacoma."
  • msindallasmsindallas Member Posts: 190
    When you think about it from a practical, rational standpoint, the van wins every time.

    Hmmmm. Do you know of a thread (point me please) that compares the different minivans. I'd like my decision to be a practical and rational one.

    It's the emotional, perhaps even irrational desire for something cool, or something that we think makes us look cool, that gets people to pay more money for less space.

    All this talk is .... taking me away from the SUV's. I did all these comparisons (space, mpg, price, looks, comfort, etc.) and was fixing to get myself an MDX. Now I am thinking an SUV is just a large station wagon propped up by a few inches, with awful space for the 3rd row. Even the engine power/torque looks comparable. What I want in my next vehicle are:

    Must haves:
    1. High driving position
    2. Seating for 6+ people
    3. HID headlights

    Preferences:
    1. Leather seating surfaces
    2. Sun/moon roof
    3. Good storage space
    4. Power seats for driver and pass
    5. Good access to 3rd row
    6. Back up camera
    7. Good steering control
    8. Homelink
    9. Power external mirrors (memory for 2, power folding, heated and electrochromatic)

    Assumed to come with:
    1. Stability control
    2. Rollover protection
    3. Airbags for all rows
    4. Air conditioning for 2/3 zones
    5. Auto transmission
    6. Tire pressure monitor
    7. Rear window wiper
    8. Seat belts for all positions
    9. Good safety testing results
    10. Antilock brakes
    11. Cruise control
    12. Power locks, windows, steering, liftgate, etc.

    Looks like I should get the Sienna XLE Limited with that option for HID lights and adaptive cruise control (package #4 on toyota.com, option HZ on Edmunds). I could save $12K (comparing to MDX). Any comments?

    One other question - any idea why the minivans are considered to be un-cool? Is it the poor handling? Or is there something else inherently bad about them? I've never driven one, so please excuse the ignorance. Regards, - MS.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yes, there is generally a stigma with minivans.

    We could go back even further. In the early 80s, station wagons were what families used. So those were uncool.

    The Caravan changed that, and minivans took over as the family vehicle of choice. Minivans also got the stigma, i.e. drive one and you're a "soccer mom".

    Many people still feel that way now, however, as more and more actual soccer moms choose crossovers like the MDX, it's only a matter of time before the stigma shifts over to that segment as the mommy-mobile. Who knows?

    I remember a really funny segment on TV news, a song that went something like "She's a 98 pound, suburban housewife driving in her SUV". It was hysterical. Any how, I'm sure the soccer mom stigma will eventually catch up with SUVs and crossovers and at that time people will find those are uncool.

    If you can find that song, download it. It's hysterical.

    Reponding to some other comments....

    A loaded Sienna costs more than any other van but that's because you can get AWD, HIDs, laser cruise control, and built-in GPS/backup cams, i.e. more equipment than any other van, even Honda.

    More equipment, higher price. You can't compare a loaded Entourage to a loaded Sienna because it would be missing ALL of those high-end and expensive features.

    For instance, msindalls requires HIDs, so Sienna may be the only minivan for her.

    CR is generally slow from 0-60 but I wanted to use the same source for comparison sake. Let me just say from personal experience that the 3.5l Toyota engine in my Sienna is a *LOT* quicker than I remember the 3.0l Freestyle being. Cars.com quotes 0-60 for the new Sienna at 6.75s. :surprise:

    Ford is rectifying that with a bigger engine, but I bet mileage will drop as a result.
  • arumagearumage Member Posts: 922
    More equipment, higher price. You can't compare a loaded Entourage to a loaded Sienna because it would be missing ALL of those high-end and expensive features.

    If you price them both with similar options, the Sienna still ends up about $4k more expensive. You can only get AWD on one lower model, and it doesn't have a spare tire, only a can of fix-a-flat. It is the only one currently with HID though.
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    so go buy it already as you seem not that interested in comparing CUV's and you mind is made up, hence the point of this thread.

    You don't have to buy a MDX to get all of your criteria in any number of CUV's, station wagons, whatever you want to call them. They have their place on the road with buyers who don't want a minivan. Yes, you can get more space with a minivan but then at the end of the day you are still driving, well, a minivan.

    If you want to compare CUV's keep posting, If you want to keep telling us that you are going to buy a sienna then what's the point.

    As for uncool, I really need a little crumple zone in front of me and don't like feel like I'm in the front row for an accident.

    Not sure why people don't like station wagons as they are usually better looking than the sedan versions anymore and more practical to boot.

    BTW you might want to drive one before buying and compare to a CUV. Listening to opinions on a forum is not going to serve you or your needs without doing the homework yourself.
  • msindallasmsindallas Member Posts: 190
    I remember a really funny segment on TV news, a song that went something like "She's a 98 pound, suburban housewife driving in her SUV". It was hysterical. Any how, I'm sure the soccer mom stigma will eventually catch up with SUVs and crossovers and at that time people will find those are uncool.

    I know 3 women like that in our office building, all around 5'1" and less than 90lbs. One has an Expedition, one a Mountaineer, and the 3rd - a Hummer H2! They all use the cars for commuting (I dunno if they do something else with the SUV's tho), and do not car pool.


    For instance, msindalls requires HIDs, so Sienna may be the only minivan for her.

    I am a guy, so soccer mom doesnt apply to me. So if this soccer-mom stigma is the only -ve about the Sienna and it causes low sales, I might be able to get a good deal from the dealer. I am a bit concerned about the resale value, though. Have to test drive that car ([Sigh] again have to face that "What would it take to put you behind the wheels of one today"?). Thanks for your insights, - MS.
  • msindallasmsindallas Member Posts: 190
    so go buy it already as you seem not that interested in comparing CUV's and you mind is made up, hence the point of this thread.

    Whats your problem, dude? You seem to have no problems comparing the FS to Sienna - here's your post, right on this thread:

    "It basically beat the FS in every way."

    not if you go to the NHTSA website and look through their ratings which I would give more credence to than CR.

    '05 Freestyle beats the '07 sienna in rollover in both fwd/awd and gets fives stars across the board vs the sienna which gets five stars in all but the driver safety category where it get's 4 stars. I've also seen 33mpg out on the highway in my FS in the real world which I doubt a sienna can do. Yes you give up space, no argument there at all, but you don't give up anything else with the purchase of a FS.

    How is that for a comparison? What makes you think only you can push your favorite vehicle?

    If you want to compare CUV's keep posting, If you want to keep telling us that you are going to buy a sienna then what's the point.

    I just replied to 1 post to clarify something about the minivans. Could you count how many times have you posted extolling the virtues of the FS?

    You like your FS, great! I want HID's in my next car, and thats my call. Are you really pissed because Ford doesnt offer it?

    As for uncool, I really need a little crumple zone in front of me and don't like feel like I'm in the front row for an accident.

    That was the only pertinent point in your whole post. Thanks for that opinion. Keep your debates to the point. Others on this thread already think you are on Ford's payroll. Too bad they don't pay you.

    BTW you might want to drive one before buying and compare to a CUV. Listening to opinions on a forum is not going to serve you or your needs without doing the homework yourself.

    Thank you again, for that suggestion. After reading this thread for weeks, did you really think I was going to buy a $30k car without driving it? I don't know what you are doing on this thread (other than selling the FS) but I am sharing and discussing the pros and cons of every CUV/SUV that I have test-driven. Besides, I value the opinions of every other member, unlike you trying to trash everybody who doesnt drive an FS. This is a part of my research and homework before I buy my next car.

    Next time, somebody else please reply to this guy. Regards, - MS.
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    Sorry I thought I was posting a reply to "ateixeira's" statement;

    "It basically beat the FS in every way."

    and opened the door.

    "unlike you trying to trash everybody who doesnt drive an FS"

    I don't trash everyone who doesn't drive a FS, I could care less what you drive and spend your money on, I get a little tired of the inaccuracies that keep getting posted and how everyone can post an opinion to be taken as fact. Sorry I don't just go along with the drivel that gets posted around here sometimes.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles