Crossover SUV Comparison

arumage

The Ford Flex reeks of style. That's like saying the xB has no style. The Flex sort of has a funky retro style about it. That being said, I don't think the Flex is everybody's cup of tea. The CX-7 is not a competitor for the Flex anyway. The Edge is a CX-7 competitor. The CX-9 is a competitor for the Flex. While the Flex is not as good looking as the CX-9, IMO, it has far more utility. Anybody who has "ducked" into a CX-9, opened those huge rear doors, or tried to sit in the 3rd row (especially if you are tall) could see all the utility of the Flex. The Flex looks to have legroom for days (especially if it has 5" more 2nd row legroom than the Freestyle, as it says on the website) and storage behind the 3rd row to match.

gregg_vw

I think more eyes will be drawn to the Flex than the CX-9, regardless if the glance is admiring. It will stand out more, and that is something Ford needs. But it needs this now, not in a year and 3 months from now. What poor planning!!

mrblonde49

The Quest is hardly an apples to apples scenario here. Nissan missed the mark plain and simple from solid competition."

We could be saying the same thing in 3 years about the Flex. The competition here is more intense than the minivan segment ever was...

"If Ford can take the year to screw this thing together properly and price it correctly it has great potential as it is more handsome than the lambda triplets, less cartoonish than the mazda, potentailly a better value than all of them and I'll take Volvo safety every day of the week if it is indeed based on Volvo underpinnings. It could be a winner."

More handsome is very subjective. The Lamdas have been very well received for looks and overall package thus far. The bottom line is that many people don't like boxy. If they did, there would be more than 3-4 boxy vehicles produced, wouldn't there?

mrblonde49

Ah, but! Nissan has had solid hits with the Maxima and Altima, 350Z, Titan and Armada.....so one failure with the Quest isn't all bad. "

I don't see the relevence of the other Nissan vehicles. If anything, the success of the others should have laid the groundowrk for Quest success. The point was that the Quest was radical design for a family mover, like the Flex is, and people largely ignored it...

arumage

I think the sharing of style between Nissan and Renault is what hurt the Quest. There is alot of criticism of the new Sentra for this as well. The designs mentioned as successes were designed with the American market in mind. The Flex, while radical in design, certainly is American in design. If it has any connection to foreign design, it would be Japanese (Kei car on a much grander scale) or Land Rover, which is still popular in the States.

gregg_vw

Exactly. The Flex has a Land Rover-ness to it that will serve it well. On the other hand, the Quest was radical like the 1996 guppy Taurus was radical. Sometimes radical is not attractive or appealing in any appreciable way. Also, think Honda Element or Scion xB v. Pontiac Aztec. while many people cannot stand the xB, some find it very appealing. But no one thought the Aztec (or Quest) was cool. When a vehicle looks pregnant or badly misshapen, buyers do not flock to it.

wlbrown9

Okay, I went to the Flex site and took a look. From the side view it looks as if they took my '00 Isuzu Trooper and stretched it out a little and left the spare off the rear door.. Also, it looks to be just a little shorter in height than the Trooper. I like my Trooper, but I just don't think Ford building the replacement is a real fit.

Sorry, but this comes in a distant last in style compared to the CX9 & Lambadas. Might be an attempt at a 'retro' style, but IMHO it just does not work.

gagrice

I agree, Ford needs the Flex now not in a year or more. Sounds like a Microsoft promotion. I do like the pictures. I have hated most of the egg shaped SUV/CUV offerings over the last 5 years. Then I lean toward the last generation Suburban and Tahoe designs. I need to go look at the Acadia. I will have bought a new SUV or CUV by the time the Flex hits the showrooms.

loach

As those who have read my posts probably know, I have been leaning toward the Acadia. I had tentatively eliminated the CX-9 from contention at the auto show based on the interior being a bit too tight for our family (and my wife's reaction to the size of the rear doors). But I liked it well enough that I thought I'd better at least drive one. So here are my brief thoughts (drove a Grand Touring because memory seats are a requirement for us):

Handling - Overall thought it handled a little better than the Acadia. I agree it drives "smaller" than it is. Body roll in corners seemed similar to Acadia.
Ride - Acadia rides better. I suspect part of this is the 20" wheels on the GT. The 18's may be better but that doesn't help me.
Visibility - This surprised me a little because I expected it to be no better than Acadia given the rear styling, but I felt it offered a better 360 degree view of the road than Acadia.
Interior space - Much tougher to get into the 3rd row of CX-9 than in the Acadia. Couldn't adjust all three rows to be comfortable for me (6'0" tall) at the same time. Could in the Acadia.

Overall, I like both vehicles, but it still looks like Acadia will win for us due primarily to our interior space needs. But if I was replacing my Pathfinder instead of my wife's minivan, the CX-9 would be a stronger contender because interior space wouldn't be as big an issue and I could blow off the memory seats and get a model with the 18" wheels.

jcorn20

I see the 2nd row legroom in the Acadia is 36.9. Is this the figure with the seats moved all the way back or is this a minimum value?

arumage

If you want 34" in the 3rd row, you only get 37" in the 2nd row.

On a side note, here are the dimesions for the Ford Flex vs. the Freestyle

Length: F 202.3 | FS 200.3
Width: F 79.9 | FS 74.9
Height: F 67.6 | FS 67.4
Wheelbase: F 117.9 | FS 112.9

jcorn20

I guess my question should have been "what is the max legroom in the 2nd row of the acadia with the 3rd row folded flat"? and the cx9? i like the convenience of the 3rd row, but i am more concerned with legroom in the 2nd row.

arumage

The max 2nd row legroom in the CX-9 is almost 40" as it is listed on their website. The CX-9 in the showroom had stickers on it that said as much. I'm not sure how they measured the Acadia though.

stevedebi

"On a side note, here are the dimesions for the Ford Flex vs. the Freestyle

Length: F 202.3 | FS 200.3
Width: F 79.9 | FS 74.9
Height: F 67.6 | FS 67.4
Wheelbase: F 117.9 | FS 112.9"

I don't see how the Flex can be on the same platform as the Freestyle, as some have stated here. The width is VERY different.

rossdm

Sorry, but that Flex is BUTT UGLY.

Way to go Ford.

gregg_vw

But it is the same platform. Width can vary by a few inches (which it does in this case) due to styling differences.

The wheelbase has been stretched (a good thing, given the overall length of these vehicles. The Flex has a couple more inches shoulder room, but given how wide it is, it should offer more. However, its the big legroom it has that Ford will tout. The Freestyle was already tops on this. The Flex will be that much better.

gregg_vw

It's a good sign that some hate it. Ford needs polarizing designs, not just inoffensive ones like the FS.

jg6

Sorry, but that Flex is BUTT UGLY.

Way to go Ford.

Right on!!!!

freealfas

so says the driver of the ever so beautiful pig nosed camry, the benchmark of fine design... next... thanks for the input though... at least the Flex is a design and not the compilation of all the least offensive styling cues one can generate painted various shades of non commital colors if you can call beige a color.

They made a statement regarding it's identity that won't allow it to be mistaken for others in the class... I'd say nice job and keep it up... you can't please all of the people all of the time.

berniedg

Ever wonder where stigma comes from ?
Community opinion-makers such as forums. Such people or marketers may or may not have families, houses to buy supplies for, or hobbies that require cargo capacity.
Buy what you need to live your "own" life not someone elses.

Anyone remember how they made "Vans" cool in the '70s:
They painted nude women on them, and posted stickers that read "Gas, Grass, or [non-permissible content removed], no-one rides for free.
I think I'll keep my ever useful M-van, and get out the air-brush. That'll get the tongues wagging in the neighborhood ;-)

gregg_vw

Exactly. Trying to please too many people leads to focus groups and dumbed down designs. Thank heavens some of you hate the Flex. I think it will do just fine!

freealfas

Ponder this idea;

If they wanted to make a "bold move" they'd make a 2row/5seat version and the 3row/7seat version, ditch the FS & the Edge. It would be easy and the aesthetics would easily be tranfered between the 2. That's what they should be doing. A shorter wheelbase version would look just as cool, maximize the use of the design, maximize the efficiency of production costs allowing it to be brought in at Ford money with the pricing, cater to the needs of both markets with one rig and CUV identity truly separating them from the masses.

Ford I hope you are reading this forum thread...

I'd take mine black/black/white roof/3 row version please to carry the grandparents in limo like comfort...

oh yeah and beef up the CVT to handle the 3.5l that is inevitably the new corporate mill.

nxs138

The Flex sort of has a funky retro style about it

I think this whole retro fad has had its run. The Mustang is not selling as well as Ford would like these days, and everything else "retro" just doesn't seem to age well. That's the risk of going retro.

But the Flex is not as retro as say, the Mustang, so it might be an easier pill to swallow. I still see a lot of Freestyle cues in the body, so it won't turn its core base away.

gregg_vw

Nothing retro about the Flex. Looks like nothing old. Neither does the Element or xB or Land Rover.

And retro done right sells very well. The Mustang is in its third year. To sell so many units per month of a 2 door coupe as it still does (they generally stale faster than anything...like 18 months) is great. But Ford needs to get past the idea it can stretch a design (with minor "freshenings") for eight years.

The Chevy HHR and Chrysler PT Cruiser and VW Beetle are all retro. All of them did well in their first years. But manufacturers need to understand that everything grows stale, retro or not, after 3 or 4 years, and sometimes simple tweaks are not enough to restore the shine.

Look at Scion. They are completely redoing the xB, even though it was still selling well. Toyota knows how to sell cars.

explorerx4

there is retro and there is timeless. mustang looked great 40 years ago, and still works as the '05 and up re-do. kind of like the porsche 911.
i don't think any cuv/suv will be able to match that.

baggs32

The Mustang is not selling as well as Ford would like these days

This is completely off topic but I have to chime in on this one.

Actually it is selling just as they had expected right now. The past two years it was selling at a pace well over expectations. Now that it's spring Mustangs will be flying off the lots at a higher rate which is the way it should be. In '04 and '05 you couldn't find a GT on a lot for miles even in the winter. That is not typical of a rear drive sports car.

That being said, I want a Flex when our Explorer lease is up but my wife doesn't like it. It is not for everyone as stated previously but I think it will do quite well because it's different and a lot of people go for that.

texases

I don't have the numbers, but I tried out the Acadia. I'm 6'5", so I tried out the second row seat with the driver's seat adjusted to fit me. With the second row seat back (3rd row down), I had plenty of head and leg room, more than in my Suburban, or any other vehicle I've been in.

nxs138

If you consider sales being almost 20% off from the same time last year as "expected", then I guess we have different views. Even Ford's leading sales analyst is worried. But spring and summer are coming, which will help.

That's what happens when there's so much more choice out there and hype wears off. I'm sure the same will happen with these crossovers, but there's already so much choice coming out that I can't help think it's a good thing: it'll pressure prices down!

gregg_vw

It's either expected, or the Ford people have their heads in the toilet. It's a 2 door coupe, one of the least popular body styles these days, that in spite of that has been selling like hotcakes for over two years. You'd have to think that a few of the people that wanted a new Mustang may now already have one. To stoke sales, Ford will have to change it again. But right now, that is not their priority...especially when this sporty 2 door coupe can still outsell most of their sedans and some of their CUVs and SUVs as well.

You are right about the crossover thing. Prices will get better as more and more are added. And wait long enough...someday they will be about as cool as a minivan.

rossdm

After looking at and driving the CX-9, Veracruz and Acadia, we've decided to go with another Pilot to replace our '03 Pilot EX-L.

All are excellent vehicles. It's nice to have so many really good options to pick from. The CX-9 drives great, but we didn't like the huge intrusion from the center console and the rock-hard leather. The Acadia was impressive, but was a bit too large and too expensive for our needs. The Veracruz was totally impressive - it came down to the VC and the Pilot. The VC would end up costing more (although it had a few more bells and whistles). Three things tipped the scales to the Pilot:

1. Dealers are discounting them quite a bit more since it's in its fifth year (and last for the current design). We will end up paying less for an '07 EX-L than we paid for our '03 EX-L - and it has more "stuff" on it.

2. Resale value - this is what really convinced me. Despite Hyundai's recent quality improvements, their resale value stinks. If I went to trade it before it was paid off, I'd definitely be upside-down. This is the strength of Hondas. We still owe a bit on our '03 but have plenty of equity so we don't need any cash in the transaction.

3. Familiarity with the Pilot and Honda quality in general. We love our Pilot - it fits our needs perfectly.

So while I won't have the thrill of something "new and different", I'm happy that we're getting a great deal on a great vehicle.