Crossover SUV Comparison

albook

So sluggish that I routinely pass up Corvettes and other "sports cars" on the freeway with ease.
You must drive by a lot of Chevy dealers! Just kidding, But freeway driving is alot different from suburb stop and go driving. on the freeway, you get going once, and you keep going. In the suburbs, you go for five minutes, and stop. And many say freestyle is slow to get going.

arumage

Ummm... ok. :confuse: Great ride is certainly subjective as most reviews I've read of the CX-9 describe the ride as "rough" on anything but silky smooth pavement, especially with the 20" wheels. I'm sure it's a great handling car for its size, but most drivers in the market for these vehicles (35 and up with two elementary school students and a dog, according to Mazda) are after more of a cruiser. That makes the CX-9 a bit more of a niche vehicle. After sitting in it, the interior vehicle dynamics suck for a tall person as well. I suppose if I was less than 6', I would like it.

Mazda is 30th in initial quality while Hyundai is 3rd. As far as the vehicle dependability study (which is for 3 year old models), Mazda and Hyundai are in a dead heat. As far as technology goes Mazda has navigation, bluetooth, and HID headlights over the Veracruz (all of which are available if happen to live in Korea :mad: ), but the Veracruz has a 100% keyless start system that doesn't ever require you to even use the key and a cooled center console. BTW, both the CX-9 and Veracruz source their transmission for Aisin.

I'm glad you choose to perpetuate the "Japanese cars are better" stereotype which worked a few of years ago, but other car makers, especially Hyundai, are stealing more thunder from the Japanese automakers. Mazda had better watch out for the Korean manufacturers, especially since lowly Kia had not one but two vehicles up for MT COTY.

barnstormer64

But freeway driving is alot different from suburb stop and go driving. on the freeway, you get going once, and you keep going. In the suburbs, you go for five minutes, and stop. And many say freestyle is slow to get going.

I live in the suburbs.

If they think it's slow to get going, I'd have to say they don't know how to mash the gas pedal. Or they're fooled by the lack of apparent "kick down" from an obvious gear change like you experience in a typical automatic.

I suggest that they watch the Corvettes fall behind as they watch in the side mirrors.

sranger

I like hp as much as the next guy... you still didn't answer the question, when is enough enough? 250hp, 300hp, 350hp, CUV with a 0-60 of 7, 6, 5 seconds, when does it stop?

The answer is simple. Too much HP is when people stop paying for it. At that point, the manufactures will quit adding more. It is a little thing called supply and demand.

However, I want to say that you also missed my point. I don't like preachy people who try to tell the rest of us how much HP is too much. I previosuly had a 400hp F150. It was a blast to drive.

Marketing, that's all it is, ego stroking, self-serving, vanity driven "progress".

So what if it is? I see NOTHING wrong with a little self endulgence every now and then? Life is too short...

A wise person once said: "If you mind your own business, you won't be minding mine..."

tidester

A wise person once said: "If you mind your own business, you won't be minding mine..."

If I recall, it was a preacher who said that.

We're not going to settle the "free market" versus "responsible citizenship" debates here so let's stick to characterizing and comparing the vehicles and not the people.

tidester, host

fromsf

Today I test drove CX-9 Sport Model, ride was very nice. Accleration was good and cabin was very quiet. But felt cabin was small for the size of the vehicle.

Second row didn't seem to fit three adults. I would call this as a six seater not as 7 seater. Though legroom in all three rows was very comfortable but hip room in the second row for center seat wasn't good.

We decided to check Outlook and wait for Veracruz before spending around 40K for fully loaded CX-9.

prosource1

'As far as the vehicle dependability study (which is for 3 year old models), Mazda and Hyundai are in a dead heat.'

Keep in mind that Hyundai is gaining huge ground every year in every area. Keep this in mind when you look at figures from several years ago. All studies show that Hyundai is gaining so much ground annually that to use these figures can be inaccurate and misleading due to their improvement. Just as they leapfrogged most of the field in initial quality, when the new VD studies are released, there will likely be an improvement that is extraordinary relative to field

lucky_777

It all comes down to the pricing strategy and model line up. While Veracruz offers a lot, it needs to compete not only against Mazda, that was always behind Toyota/Honda/Nissan in quality. CX-9 is available now but we'll see in the coming few days and months new offering in CUV segment from Big three Japanese manufacturers. In my opinion Veracruz needs to be priced very competitively. I just don't see how could anyone shell out mid to high $30K for this car while NEW H/T/N offerings will be available from mid $20K.

albook

i will be interested to see if a 4900 lbs vehicle can match the mpg ofone that weighs 4100 lbs.
Jeep Liberty? It's not that hard. 19 and 26 are great numbers that out do competitors like pilot, and the 4100 lbs CX-9. Just sayin'.

albook

Let me set it straight. Huyndai is to toyota as toyota is to GM. Only thing is, as I think GM can hold toyota from the top spot, especiially with ford going down the drain somewhat, I think Hyundai will easily outdo toyota in giving the consumer what they want. The only thing is , in 5 years, it won't be at a fraction of the price! hyundai is a great and improving company, and they are really getting it fast. If I wasn't such a name brand boy(BMW over Acura) I'd have one. can't wait to see they're luxo brand-though i hope it's not called Dynasty. I bet it will put acura in a tough spot-especially between the luxo VeraCruz and the MDX.

arumage

I don't think they will be available from the mid $20's. At the current rate of price increase with these types of vehicle with the new features they are offering. To offer new features and a bigger vehicle, the MDX went up a little over $3k. You can probably expect that out of the rest of the vehicles as well. I think the Highlander will be a minimum of $28k. You can probably expect a minimum of $29k or $30k out of the Pilot. I'm expecting mid-$30's from a fully loaded Veracruz (sans navigation). The best any other manufacturer with a new competitive model can do is around $40k. Chrysler's posible replacement for the Pacifica (JC49), based on the Sebring, could start as low as the low-$20's, but the spy photos don't really let you accurately gauge size.

explorerx4

i know it is difficult, but i was trying to keep it to the vehicles in the thread title.

joe97

"In my opinion Veracruz needs to be priced very competitively. I just don't see how could anyone shell out mid to high $30K for this car while NEW H/T/N offerings will be available from mid $20K."

I believe the Veracruz will be priced competitive, as are with the rest of the Hyundai portfolio - price per feature ratio will continue to be high.

By the way, the mid-to-high 30K will likely be the loaded Veracruz version. Which of the models were you thinking about from H/T/N (Highlander, Pilot, Murano?)? Comparably equipped, I feel Hyundai will continue to maintain the price advantage, as well as being on par in most other areas with rival.

joe97

I am keeping a close eye on the Nav feature on the Veracruz, as I know posters here are eager to hear about its availability. The certainly is not if, but when, and the latest I am hearing, supposedly either at launch or close to launch...I will keep you guys posted should I hear otherwise, as we get closer to launch date.

As for bluetooth, would a cell phone with speaker capability remedy the issue?

Personally, I am indifferent about these features. I look for practicability and price per content (feature).

seloo

The first Saturn Dealer wanted MSRP.

I know is was Saturn's original business plan to charge MSRP, but I understand they had to modify the plan to stay in business.

Please post your experiences.

Thanks

wlbrown9

I expect in the short term that discounts on the Saturn & Acadia will be small. Later, they will probably go up. Comparing the ads in the Memphis paper yesterday...Acadia advertised as starting at $29,465 or so... Yukons in the same add were discounted $7000 down to $30K or so.

Also interesting to see 2007 Freestyle advertised for less than $21K...might be the price leader if nothing else :-)

stever

Hi Seloo,

Maybe you can post over in the new Saturn Outlook: Prices Paid & Buying Experience discussion too and get that one started?

Thanks!

(For Acadia fans, we now have GMC Acadia: Prices Paid & Buying Experience - we'll wait until closer to release date for the Enclave).

sssfegy

From someone who wanted to compare a Korean vehicle that she has not driven (Veracruzer) to the Audi Q7, ride is ofcourse subjective! Will move on! I'm 6'3 and find it a perfect fit in every seat but the middle seat in the second row! Naturally you did not drive it that's why you don't like the ergonomics.
As far as JD, I thought you're in the car business! You usually get a tour on how they rate vehicles..then you go out and test drive that car used and get a totally different opinion. Go drive a Hyundai with 60k, and a Toyota or a Mazda with 100K. Or ask the techs in the back what do they drive, and were it falls in JD.
Another, do you check the Huyndai forums and help folks with the issues they're having? I don't see your post there! :P

albook

i know it is difficult, but i was trying to keep it to the vehicles in the thread title.
is pilot not dirctly in competition? Is CX-9 not in the title of this forum? Plenty more examples, but I'm gonna stop there.

readerreader

joe97

As others have already explained, Hyundai is neck and neck with Mazda in the latest dependability study, while both still have a way to go, Hyundai has been the better and much improved automaker. As far as initial quality goes, Hyundai is by far one up on Mazda, according to the latest score, even ahead of Toyota.

My friend has a '98 Sonata with over 120K miles, still drive it very well. And dealers around my area don't drive any of the three, they all have Bimmers, Audis, etc...

And by the way, I have sat and drove the Veracruz, it's a vehicle competitive with the rest of the class.

sssfegy

"Initial quality" tests done, rate lots of things based weather it will break or not, and other appearance factors! Like rating brake pad dust as a major rating, etc..
Your friend is one of the very lucky ones, but I would drive his next to a Camry with the same miles or a Mazda/Honda with the same miles, and see which is holding up better(which I do everyday, and there is a noticeable difference, that's the lucky and the unlucky).
Veracruz, it probably is a nice Korean car..but can you just guess how much negative equity you would have if something about it does not appeal to you? JD can brag all day, but the market is still the same as far used cars go.

joe97

What's there to compare? No cars are perfect, but some cars are better than others. Admittedly, Toyotas are generally better but doesn't mean they are perfect, and on the other end, Hyundais are vastly improving and far better than the shape you seemed to have generalized.

The industry is recognizing Hyundai's movement so be my guest if you wouldn't drive a Hyundai until 2090. Anyway, let's just move on and get back on topic.

explorerx4

i was posting to the inclusion of a jeep liberty, which is not a part of this thread. pilot and cx-9 are better.

stever

Remember Post 1 - "With such a big grouping, a little off-topic drift will be tolerated, so don't get too upset if someone tosses an SRX or Edge or similar into the mix."

Many will think a Liberty is similar enough, if a bit smaller, to be cross-shopped too.

explorerx4

you posted some great pictures of the new cts at the detroit auto show.
the first picture look a lot like a freestyle. second picture, the interior looks really good. i don't think the freestyle has the folding armrests for the second row. third picture looks pretty good, too. i like the exhaust, but don't like the hatch design(too close to the rear bumper). as with all the cuv's i have looked at, i miss the separate opening rear hatch window.

explorerx4

you are the host, so you it is up to you what is 'on topic'. to me a liberty belongs with the cr-v/ecape/rav 4.

stever

Many will agree with you too. In any event, I've been waiting for the perfect spot to post this and now that I have the opportunity...

What the Hell Is a Crossover Vehicle?

Carry on. :shades:

str8line

We have 2 kids so space is critical to our family. For pure utility a minivan would be the best choice, however my wife wanted something with more style than a minivan.

After extensive research and many test drives we ordered a loaded Outlook. We mostly cross-shopped it against 3rd row optioned luxury SUV's(X5, Q7, MDX, GL450, LR3, SRX, Tahoe, Expedition, GX470). I was amazed by the utility, driving dynamics, luxury, and overall package of the Outlook(and Acadia). None of the other vehicles came close to offering the user-friendly space and utility in my opinion. It is jam packed with nice touches too(ex: lighting everywhere, vents everywhere, great cupholders, etc. etc.)

I'm a car nut and I've gotta say that I'm proud of the fact that GM has done such a nice job with the Lambda chassis vehicles(Outlook, Acadia, Enclave). I never thought we would chose a GM product over the German offerings but in reality it is nice to support an American company and I am going to make a conscious effort to do it more often with all of my future purchases.

Regarding initial quality and long term reliability, I believe the days of the Japanese having an obvious edge are over. I think the gap is closing quickly between manufacturers and they have pretty much all figured out how to make great products from the get-go.

aviboy97

My first CX-9 Sport has arrived, and I must say, it is quite nice. The interior is leaps and bounds over the CX-7. I think Mazda went all out to ensure this vehicle will sell and appeal to the masses.