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Crossover SUV Comparison

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    readerreaderreaderreader Member Posts: 253
    I agree with you there, the front end looks too docile.
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    coldcrankercoldcranker Member Posts: 877
    "Gas mileage- the same."

    albook, Wrong. The Freestyle beats the entire comparison group in MPG. Thats valuable in my view, although some don't care about MPG. I like the GM offerings, too, although, like all except the Freestyle in this group, they are still not in the marketplace yet, and the Freestyle is a proven smoothe operator for 3 years now.

    This comparison group of course is not the full story, as the veteran Nissan Murano, Honda Pilot, and maybe the Tribeca are other choices, and each have certain attributes that beat the Freestyle, but note the Freestyle is the total package overall.
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    carlitos92carlitos92 Member Posts: 458
    Ya know, there's just no simple answer to who to trust when choosing a car... You really have to look at everything. Personally, I like C&D because their attitudes, preferences, and testing methods are generally consistent. But they rarely talk in depth about reliability, so that leads to JDP and CR. Then, finally, you have the forums where people will call out the emperor for having no clothes. But you get both sides of the spectrum there - owners trying to justify their own purchases, and frustrated owners with an axe to grind - and everybody in between. I look at as many sources as I can, but take it all with a grain of salt... :)
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    nxs138nxs138 Member Posts: 481
    You don't have to be nice on my account ;-)

    Stephan Wilkinson, former editor in chief of C/D, has an amusing story: when the Datsun F210 was introduced to the press, he and his colleagues agreed that the car was awful, so he wrote a very negative review, which was published.

    Soon after, the senior vice-president of the Ziff-Davis Publishing Co. called him into his office and chewed him out. Stephan's reply? "Well, we have a duty to the readers". The senior vice-president's reply? "F*** the readers, you have a duty to the advertisers, you moron!"

    He was fired not long thereafter

    So you see, that's why I wrote that I "hope" that advertising doesn't influence their reviews.
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    joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Either massive fleet cuts, or cannibalization of Edge's availablity, and/or other events, Ford reported only slightly over 2,000 units of Stylefree sold for the first month of January, down almost 60% from a year ago.
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    albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    Gas mileage is the one thing Freestyle seems to have over everything else, but not by much.
    Freestyle mileage:
    20/27 fwd, 19/24 awd
    Acadia mileage:
    19/26 fwd, 18/24 awd
    Barely does the Acadia lose to the Freestyle. And I know most in this forum would give up 1 mpg for more space, styling, power, and quality. Ford reported only slightly over 2,000 units of Stylefree sold for the first month of January, down almost 60% from a year ago. Looks like we're not the only ones!
    And about those magazines- you shouldn't rely solely on any one source, but it's good to know that MT thinks Edge is sluggish in performance, and doesn't have great ride, before you go and get 4 years worth of disapointment. knowledge is power, and they (including Car and Driver) are experts. Ofcourse, are we really going to gripe because Edmunds says the cupholders in the front of our Silverado are to too small? Not thinking so.
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    arumagearumage Member Posts: 922
    If the Edge is sluggish, the Acadia is a sloth. According to Edmunds, the FWD Edge ran a 7.4 second 0-60 time. In all fairness, that's atleast a 1/2 second faster, if not closer to a full second, than the Acadia. What I don't like about the Edge is its weight. IMHO, it should be lighter. It weighs more than the Freestyle. MT is about as fair and balanced as Fox News. :P
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    albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    MT is so fair. COmpared to CR! CR didn't even have to touch MDX- they automatically said it was awesome. Whereas MT saw it for what it really was, and said it wasn't great. Arumage, you should be happy. They loved the Sante FE, SO they will probably like your VeraCruz.
    And for 0-60 times of Acadia, very ood for it's size, compared to much smaller Pilot-like 7.9 for fwd Acadia compared to like 8.5 for pilot. THe Edge shouldn't weigh as much as it does- that's what I'm saying. But both MT ans C&R said Acadia performance ws good while Edge was sluggish. Acdia's getting a V-8 too.
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    arumagearumage Member Posts: 922
    The precious MT listed the Acadia's 0-60 time as 8.4 seconds. The Edge's numbers are on par with other vehicles in its price and size range. I was unimpressed with the handling numbers they posted though. A V8... Just what the Acadia needs. A FWD based vehicle with a V8, especially an SUV is just plain ignorant.
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    albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    Actually they tested AWD version, and fwd version of Acadia might be a little quicker-8.0 maybe? There's nothing wrong with having a V-8. It's extra power- and those who don't like it, probably can't afford to feed it. The Acadia has the second most powerful V-6 of any CUV. A little tuning might be in order but weight to hp ratio is 17.4. But the only V-8 like V-6 in a CUV is in the Acura MDX, and I would bet you don't want to pay for that. Oh-and about the FWD thing- this isn't a BMW. This is a family friendly CUV.
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    explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,510
    i will be interested to see if a 4900 lbs vehicle can match the mpg ofone that weighs 4100 lbs. don't want to be viewed as trashing gm's, but they got caught with their privates showing with the new siverado power rating.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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    nxs138nxs138 Member Posts: 481
    I'm sure a V8 version of the Acadia would put it well into MDX/Q7/X5 territory, price-wise. I'm eager to see how GM is going to play that card--I already think that high 30's (the way I'd want the Acadia configured) is rather high for this vehicle, and that's just for a V6 with no sort of sport package, which I'm sure the V8 is meant for.
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    bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    The Acadia is bigger in every exterior dimension compared to the Freestyle, yet isn't much larger inside with the exception of extra hip room. So if you need space for 8, then get the Acadia, but if you're only carrying 6, you'll have more passenger space in the Freestyle. For me, the Acadia is more than I need. If I needed something that big, then I'd get a minivan. The Freestyle is more of a car-CUV while the Acadia is and SUV trying to be a CUV.
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    freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    "There's nothing wrong with having a V-8. It's extra power- and those who don't like it, probably can't afford to feed it."

    More ignorance with that statement... when is enough enough and a nicely tuned 6 perfectly acceptable for a CUV. It's not a coupe, not a high performance sedan, not a sports car, its a CUV. Marketing people LOVE people like you because all they see is a sucker and his money soon parted. Buy it for what it is, a comfortable, spacious,& safe vehicle to haul large amounts of people and stuff. That's what it does day in day out, If you need a speed fix park something more appropriate in the garage next to it and stop whining that it doesn't have 450hp, pull 1g on the skidpad, and a sub 5sec 0-60 time. When does any rational thought play any part of these discussions...
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    srangersranger Member Posts: 106
    More ignorance with that statement... when is enough enough and a nicely tuned 6 perfectly acceptable for a CUV. It's not a coupe, not a high performance sedan, not a sports car, its a CUV. Marketing people LOVE people like you because all they see is a sucker and his money soon parted. Buy it for what it is, a comfortable, spacious,& safe vehicle to haul large amounts of people and stuff. That's what it does day in day out, If you need a speed fix park something more appropriate in the garage next to it and stop whining that it doesn't have 450hp, pull 1g on the skidpad, and a sub 5sec 0-60 time. When does any rational thought play any part of these discussions...

    Oh get off your high horse. I have never heard anyone say. "I like it but it but I wish it had less power..."

    We are Americans:

    A lot of hp is good...

    More hp is better...

    Too Much is just right....

    I have a 500+hp Mustang GT and would love a 450hp mide size CUV that handles like a sports sedan to drive every day. No wait, that is called a Porsche Cheyenne, VW Touareg, BMW X5, Mercedes ML500 and ML63. It is strange that these manufactures went to all that trouble to build these thing that no one wants...
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    barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    Oh get off your high horse. I have never heard anyone say. "I like it but it but I wish it had less power..."

    Perhaps not . . though I'd say that the Freestyle has plenty of power with its CVT.

    Caveat: I'm not driving it up and down hills/mountains all day long, so I can't comment on that . . though I have taken it over the Arbuckle Mountains a few times without difficulty.
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    barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    Ford's problem with the Freestyle is that they didn't realize how vain people are... myself included. They created a very functional vehicle with few exciting and innovative features aside from the CVT at the time of release... and let's face it, the CVT didn't excite alot of people. On top of all that, they decided not to advertise it well. I think if Ford took a little bit of the wagon look out of it,

    That's probably why I bought one . . I'm an engineer, so I'm smart enough (hopefully, or so I think) to look past a lack of advertising and don't worry too much about vanity. The CVT is awesome.

    I don't worry too much about no stability control, since I have AWD and I don't drive it like a maniac.

    I also LIKE the fact that it's basically a Five Hundred Wagon (though a tall wagon). That way, it complements my Five Hundred (which basically drives the same way, though it handles better and accelerates better due to the lower weight, etc).
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    bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    We are Americans:

    A lot of hp is good...

    More hp is better...

    Too Much is just right....


    Thank God not all Americans think like that!

    A lot of hp is a waste...

    More hp is even more of a waste...

    Too much hp is just plain stupid...

    Give me better mpg over more hp anytime
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    sportymonksportymonk Member Posts: 258
    I looked at the Freestyle back when I bought my 05 Honda Pilot. At first it looked great in the photos and on paper. BUT all the reviews commented on the underpowered engine. I drove one and it wasn't that bad but I wasn't putting a load on it.
    THEN there was the CVT transmission, couldn't get a regular transmission. I will let somebody else work the kinks out of it. Seems others feel the same way since now they are bringing out a regular 6 spd (shame it is the stumbling GM/Ford joint venture and not the CX-9 6 spd.).
    Then there was the cheap looking covering on the back of the cargo area and seats.
    And there is the lack of towing capability.

    Overall Ford will probably get this one right about one or two years before they cease production. Similar to the Pontiac Fiero, had the good motor and suspension in it right before they quit making it. Shame they couldn't have built it right to start with. The Freestyle fills a spot in the market but now it has to overcome its initial perception by people.

    If something happened to my Pilot right now, I would look at the CX-9, the Pilot, and MAYBE the Acadia (big maybe). The Pilot needs updating (which appears to be coming next model year) but it still is an excellent product. Do wish it could tow more, plan on moving in a year or so.
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    tango_28tango_28 Member Posts: 35
    Don't forget Honda has had bad automatics, I think they had 15% failure rate on them. These were use on the Pilot,MDX, TL and Oddy. It took Honda about 4 years to figure out there tranny problem.
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    freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    "Oh get off your high horse. I have never heard anyone say. "I like it but it but I wish it had less power..."

    I like hp as much as the next guy... you still didn't answer the question, when is enough enough? 250hp, 300hp, 350hp, CUV with a 0-60 of 7, 6, 5 seconds, when does it stop? It doesn't seem to. 10 years from now we have CUV's with 600hp, sub 4 sec 0-60 carrying 7 people and getting 12mpg and call that progress. When does driver's ed improve to make drivers capable of handling that or do we rely on electronics/computer's to solve all of that for us as well adding complexity and cost to what end I ask. Marketing, that's all it is, ego stroking, self-serving, vanity driven "progress".

    "We are Americans:

    A lot of hp is good...

    More hp is better...

    Too Much is just right...."

    You wonder why this country is more than the butt of a few jokes, your quote goes a long way towards answering that question why are we labeled the ignorant americans.

    Drive your GT in good health as it is what it is supposed to be not some SUV/CUV whatever dressed up playing pretend boy racer for the mental health of it's owner.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Let's stick to the cars and avoid gratuitous characterizations of each other please.

    If you just want to focus on HP or speed, try the 0-60 is so yesterday! or The Growing Divergence Between Horsepower and Speed Limits discussions.
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    music287music287 Member Posts: 116
    Today I test drove two vehicles, with my wife. We drove a Pacifica to the Mazda dealer and compared 'em, side by side.
    Both have plenty of zoom-zoom and similar RUG mpg ratings. The Mazda engine/trans seemed quieter but the PAC climate system in 6'F was quieter. A draw IMHO. The CX-9 third row headroom was slightly better but knee room was similar. Getting in/out was similarly car-height (unlike the Outlook
    /Acadia which is truck-height.) The CX-9 is about $5K more than a similarly equipped PAC and the Power Lift Gate won't be available until June delivery. The storage space behind row 3 is also...similar and big enough only for two suitcases. Here's why we're buying the PAC: The front row isn't spacious on the Mazda CX-9: my knees hit on both sides and, if I lift my feet,some sort of bar hits my insteps. The middle row doesn't seem "aligned" with the rear doors: even with the middle seats all the way back, the B pillar really intrudes entering and exiting. That middle row is really a two-seater, not three. Toe room under the front seats for the 2nd row isn't terrific either. Oh, and the middle row seats recline only about 4".

    Now I know the projected depreciation rate is higher on the PAC and there have been some early reports of tranny problems on the new Chrysler-sourced 6-speed, but my local dealer is great and, as I intimated, his price is very right.

    Comments? Does anyone else notice the crowded feeling in the CX-9?
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    arumagearumage Member Posts: 922
    I certainly did. It seems like they sacrified space to keep its sporty shape on the exterior. The nose of the CX-9 seems very long (although I liked how easy it was to work under the hood). What I don't understand is how the Veracruz can come so close in space to the CX-9 and Acadia without being nearly as long (11" shorter than Acadia, 8" shorter than CX-9)

    CX-9 Acadia Veracruz Pacifica
    Legroom 40.9/39.8/32.4 41.3/36.9/33.2 42.6/38.4/31.5 40.9/39.9/29.9
    Headroom 39.6/38.8/35.4 40.4/39.3/38.4 40.3/39.9/36.1 39.2/40/35.4
    Shoulder room 59.4/58.7/56.4 61.9/61.1/57.8 60.6/60.2/56.1 60.8/60.5/58

    Sorry about the numbers being squished together like that. :blush:
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    sssfegysssfegy Member Posts: 132
    Sure it did to you, because Mazda is not after the "Korean" manufacturers! They don't build a car so it would have "More room" and bigger cup holders..they don't justify their product by making it cheaper either, they are after the "YOUNGER" more athletic buyer that appreciates a great (not just an OK ride). Working under the hood? I would buy a Japanese built over a Korean till 2090, then I might consider them when they have an "ORIGINAL" design and technology! :P
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    albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    though I'd say that the Freestyle has plenty of power with its CVT.
    That is if you like a sluggish vehichle. But that is with our new "gotta have power" standings.
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    albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    The Acadia is bigger in every exterior dimension compared to the Freestyle, yet isn't much larger inside with the exception of extra hip room.
    Don't forget third row leg room(only one inch), and 25 (yes 25)extra feet of cargo space. With wider third row, third row space is much better. With the smooth ride, the Acadia certainly doesn't have to pretend to be a CUV, then again, it doesn't have to pretend that much to be an SUV with such good veratility.
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    albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    More ignorance with that statement...
    well I guess Honda and Toyota are ignorant right along with me since they feal it necasary to give us the power.
    Marketing people LOVE people like you because all they see is a sucker and his money soon parted.
    Don't be mad because you don't have the cash to part with.
    It's about technology advancement. There is nothing wrong with good performance. Why does the safe MDX have 300hp? because mommies and daddies were still buying bimmers with 8's! The Ipod didn't need 80 gigabytes-I mean, who has 20,000 songs...
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    barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    That is if you like a sluggish vehichle. But that is with our new "gotta have power" standings.

    So sluggish that I routinely pass up Corvettes and other "sports cars" on the freeway with ease.

    The vast majority of Horsepower out on the roads these days is WAY underutilized. Until a substantial number of the drivers of those vehicles start driving them like sports cars, I have all the power I need.
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    albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    So sluggish that I routinely pass up Corvettes and other "sports cars" on the freeway with ease.
    You must drive by a lot of Chevy dealers! Just kidding, But freeway driving is alot different from suburb stop and go driving. on the freeway, you get going once, and you keep going. In the suburbs, you go for five minutes, and stop. And many say freestyle is slow to get going.
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    arumagearumage Member Posts: 922
    Ummm... ok. :confuse: Great ride is certainly subjective as most reviews I've read of the CX-9 describe the ride as "rough" on anything but silky smooth pavement, especially with the 20" wheels. I'm sure it's a great handling car for its size, but most drivers in the market for these vehicles (35 and up with two elementary school students and a dog, according to Mazda) are after more of a cruiser. That makes the CX-9 a bit more of a niche vehicle. After sitting in it, the interior vehicle dynamics suck for a tall person as well. I suppose if I was less than 6', I would like it.

    Mazda is 30th in initial quality while Hyundai is 3rd. As far as the vehicle dependability study (which is for 3 year old models), Mazda and Hyundai are in a dead heat. As far as technology goes Mazda has navigation, bluetooth, and HID headlights over the Veracruz (all of which are available if happen to live in Korea :mad: ), but the Veracruz has a 100% keyless start system that doesn't ever require you to even use the key and a cooled center console. BTW, both the CX-9 and Veracruz source their transmission for Aisin.

    I'm glad you choose to perpetuate the "Japanese cars are better" stereotype which worked a few of years ago, but other car makers, especially Hyundai, are stealing more thunder from the Japanese automakers. Mazda had better watch out for the Korean manufacturers, especially since lowly Kia had not one but two vehicles up for MT COTY.
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    barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    But freeway driving is alot different from suburb stop and go driving. on the freeway, you get going once, and you keep going. In the suburbs, you go for five minutes, and stop. And many say freestyle is slow to get going.

    I live in the suburbs. :D

    If they think it's slow to get going, I'd have to say they don't know how to mash the gas pedal. Or they're fooled by the lack of apparent "kick down" from an obvious gear change like you experience in a typical automatic.

    I suggest that they watch the Corvettes fall behind as they watch in the side mirrors. :D
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    srangersranger Member Posts: 106
    I like hp as much as the next guy... you still didn't answer the question, when is enough enough? 250hp, 300hp, 350hp, CUV with a 0-60 of 7, 6, 5 seconds, when does it stop?

    The answer is simple. Too much HP is when people stop paying for it. At that point, the manufactures will quit adding more. It is a little thing called supply and demand.

    However, I want to say that you also missed my point. I don't like preachy people who try to tell the rest of us how much HP is too much. I previosuly had a 400hp F150. It was a blast to drive.

    Marketing, that's all it is, ego stroking, self-serving, vanity driven "progress".

    So what if it is? I see NOTHING wrong with a little self endulgence every now and then? Life is too short...

    A wise person once said: "If you mind your own business, you won't be minding mine..."
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    tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    A wise person once said: "If you mind your own business, you won't be minding mine..."

    If I recall, it was a preacher who said that. :)

    We're not going to settle the "free market" versus "responsible citizenship" debates here so let's stick to characterizing and comparing the vehicles and not the people.

    tidester, host
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    fromsffromsf Member Posts: 19
    Today I test drove CX-9 Sport Model, ride was very nice. Accleration was good and cabin was very quiet. But felt cabin was small for the size of the vehicle.

    Second row didn't seem to fit three adults. I would call this as a six seater not as 7 seater. Though legroom in all three rows was very comfortable but hip room in the second row for center seat wasn't good.

    We decided to check Outlook and wait for Veracruz before spending around 40K for fully loaded CX-9.
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    prosource1prosource1 Member Posts: 234
    'As far as the vehicle dependability study (which is for 3 year old models), Mazda and Hyundai are in a dead heat.'

    Keep in mind that Hyundai is gaining huge ground every year in every area. Keep this in mind when you look at figures from several years ago. All studies show that Hyundai is gaining so much ground annually that to use these figures can be inaccurate and misleading due to their improvement. Just as they leapfrogged most of the field in initial quality, when the new VD studies are released, there will likely be an improvement that is extraordinary relative to field
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    lucky_777lucky_777 Member Posts: 205
    It all comes down to the pricing strategy and model line up. While Veracruz offers a lot, it needs to compete not only against Mazda, that was always behind Toyota/Honda/Nissan in quality. CX-9 is available now but we'll see in the coming few days and months new offering in CUV segment from Big three Japanese manufacturers. In my opinion Veracruz needs to be priced very competitively. I just don't see how could anyone shell out mid to high $30K for this car while NEW H/T/N offerings will be available from mid $20K.
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    albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    i will be interested to see if a 4900 lbs vehicle can match the mpg ofone that weighs 4100 lbs.
    Jeep Liberty? It's not that hard. 19 and 26 are great numbers that out do competitors like pilot, and the 4100 lbs CX-9. Just sayin'.
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    albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    Let me set it straight. Huyndai is to toyota as toyota is to GM. Only thing is, as I think GM can hold toyota from the top spot, especiially with ford going down the drain somewhat, I think Hyundai will easily outdo toyota in giving the consumer what they want. The only thing is , in 5 years, it won't be at a fraction of the price! hyundai is a great and improving company, and they are really getting it fast. If I wasn't such a name brand boy(BMW over Acura) I'd have one. can't wait to see they're luxo brand-though i hope it's not called Dynasty. I bet it will put acura in a tough spot-especially between the luxo VeraCruz and the MDX.
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    arumagearumage Member Posts: 922
    I don't think they will be available from the mid $20's. At the current rate of price increase with these types of vehicle with the new features they are offering. To offer new features and a bigger vehicle, the MDX went up a little over $3k. You can probably expect that out of the rest of the vehicles as well. I think the Highlander will be a minimum of $28k. You can probably expect a minimum of $29k or $30k out of the Pilot. I'm expecting mid-$30's from a fully loaded Veracruz (sans navigation). The best any other manufacturer with a new competitive model can do is around $40k. Chrysler's posible replacement for the Pacifica (JC49), based on the Sebring, could start as low as the low-$20's, but the spy photos don't really let you accurately gauge size.
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    explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,510
    i know it is difficult, but i was trying to keep it to the vehicles in the thread title.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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    joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    "In my opinion Veracruz needs to be priced very competitively. I just don't see how could anyone shell out mid to high $30K for this car while NEW H/T/N offerings will be available from mid $20K."

    I believe the Veracruz will be priced competitive, as are with the rest of the Hyundai portfolio - price per feature ratio will continue to be high.

    By the way, the mid-to-high 30K will likely be the loaded Veracruz version. Which of the models were you thinking about from H/T/N (Highlander, Pilot, Murano?)? Comparably equipped, I feel Hyundai will continue to maintain the price advantage, as well as being on par in most other areas with rival.
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    joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    I am keeping a close eye on the Nav feature on the Veracruz, as I know posters here are eager to hear about its availability. The certainly is not if, but when, and the latest I am hearing, supposedly either at launch or close to launch...I will keep you guys posted should I hear otherwise, as we get closer to launch date.

    As for bluetooth, would a cell phone with speaker capability remedy the issue?

    Personally, I am indifferent about these features. I look for practicability and price per content (feature).
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    selooseloo Member Posts: 606
    The first Saturn Dealer wanted MSRP.

    I know is was Saturn's original business plan to charge MSRP, but I understand they had to modify the plan to stay in business.

    Please post your experiences.

    Thanks
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    wlbrown9wlbrown9 Member Posts: 867
    I expect in the short term that discounts on the Saturn & Acadia will be small. Later, they will probably go up. Comparing the ads in the Memphis paper yesterday...Acadia advertised as starting at $29,465 or so... Yukons in the same add were discounted $7000 down to $30K or so.

    Also interesting to see 2007 Freestyle advertised for less than $21K...might be the price leader if nothing else :-)
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Hi Seloo,

    Maybe you can post over in the new Saturn Outlook: Prices Paid & Buying Experience discussion too and get that one started?

    Thanks!

    (For Acadia fans, we now have GMC Acadia: Prices Paid & Buying Experience - we'll wait until closer to release date for the Enclave).
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    sssfegysssfegy Member Posts: 132
    From someone who wanted to compare a Korean vehicle that she has not driven (Veracruzer) to the Audi Q7, ride is ofcourse subjective! Will move on! I'm 6'3 and find it a perfect fit in every seat but the middle seat in the second row! Naturally you did not drive it that's why you don't like the ergonomics.
    As far as JD, I thought you're in the car business! You usually get a tour on how they rate vehicles..then you go out and test drive that car used and get a totally different opinion. Go drive a Hyundai with 60k, and a Toyota or a Mazda with 100K. Or ask the techs in the back what do they drive, and were it falls in JD.
    Another, do you check the Huyndai forums and help folks with the issues they're having? I don't see your post there! :P
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    albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    i know it is difficult, but i was trying to keep it to the vehicles in the thread title.
    is pilot not dirctly in competition? Is CX-9 not in the title of this forum? Plenty more examples, but I'm gonna stop there.
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    readerreaderreaderreader Member Posts: 253
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