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Crossover SUV Comparison

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Comments

  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Dependability and reliability are two different things. Plus, JD Powers really has little to no credibility in the real world.

    We need to wait for about a year to see how reliable these vehicle are. Right now, basically everything Mazda builds that comes from Japan have been extremely reliable. Mazda3, Mazda5, MX-5, Mazda6 (built here in the US). The CX-7 seems to have it's first year issue solved, and the CX-9 has really had no common issues.

    According to TrueDelta.com, which is a owner posting reliability site, the 2007 Lambdas were basically horrific, while the 2008's are much better. The 2007 CX-9 had an average rate, and currently no data for 2008.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The Dependability Study measures problems experienced by original owners of 3-year-old (2004 model year) vehicles. Buick tied with Lexus for first in the 2007 study. (link)

    I think they're more credible than CR. More in the Comments: Consumer Reports/JD Power Rankings discussion.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I take issue with the fact that Buicks (especially a few years back) are typically rebadged versions of other GM vehicles that consistently rank lower in reliability (the W-Platform Grand Prix, Impala, and Lucerne, for example) . I'm wondering if the drivers of Buicks maybe don't hear their transmission whining or their dash rattling as much as a Pontiac owner?

    Also, I challenge anyone to sit in a Lexus sedan and tell me with a straight face that Buick's quality is on par. Lexus puts everyone to shame as far as quality, making everyone else's offerings feel cheap.
  • dsfindlaydsfindlay Member Posts: 9
    I think Buick counts on really old people to be driving their sedans. Feeble eyes and minds and a "back in my day" mentality make for satisfied customers perhaps. :shades:
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    We are all entitled to our opinion, however, a 3 year study is not a true judge of reliability. CR goes back 10 years.

    Buicks have improved, yes. I have yet to sit in the new Enclave, but, my mother drives a RX330, and I would love to see how the Buick stacks up. I am not willing to bet right now that Buick is tied with Lexus in build quality.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    think Buick counts on really old people to be driving their sedans. Feeble eyes and minds and a "back in my day" mentality make for satisfied customers perhaps

    I have touched on that before. They have to be one of the oldest, if not the oldest, average age buyer. The Enclave seems to be the first Buick to stray from the senior citizen demographic. Lets see how it does.
  • vad1819vad1819 Member Posts: 309
    If you don't believe in JP why do you beleive in Truedelta.com?
    Who is Truedelta.com? Some small organization.
    Data from Truedelta.com CX-9 2007 54 trip per year from 27 customers.
    Acadia 2007 98 trips per year from 95 customers.
    it's almost 50% more trips, but data for Acadia/outlook alomost -75% more.
    you can't compare this data. This data absolutly useless.
    And about Lexus vs Buick. who's care about quality of the cabin? we re taking about REALIABILITY!!!!!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    It's my understanding that CR polls subscribers. JDP polls registered owners. I trust their methodology more. YMMY. :shades:

    Vad1819 - I keep forgetting about True Delta. They really seem to be having trouble getting traction and hitting critical mass in people's consciousness. I like that the site owners explains the methodology there - but aren't the members there self-selected too? I'm not sure how they weed out the non-owners who may be dissing a brand they don't like.
  • dsfindlaydsfindlay Member Posts: 9
    I have touched on that before. They have to be one of the oldest, if not the oldest, average age buyer. The Enclave seems to be the first Buick to stray from the senior citizen demographic. Lets see how it does.

    I agree. The Enclave is a beautiful car and I would have bought one had it not been so hard to get. That's why I was very specific about 'sedans'. I think, with the Enclave, Buick has taken a HUGE leap forward in its quality reputation and demographic shift.

    The Lucerne on the other hand...
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    If you don't believe in JP why do you beleive in Truedelta.com?

    Vad,

    I never mentioned truedelta.com, and have never been to the site :surprise: . Don't be so quick to jump on people, especially when I think you've got the wrong guy. :sick:

    Who cares about the quality of the cabin? Me, for one. I drive my car from the cabin 100% of the time, so I want my interior to be built with quality and be able to stand up to time. The last two GM trucks I was in (a 2005 Chevrolet 2500HD and a 2003 Tahoe) already had lights burned out in the stereo, hvac, and instrument panel. That's a lack of interior quality.
  • vad1819vad1819 Member Posts: 309
    I have same doubts about it.
    Anyway this discuss board is going nowhere, because a lot people like what marked Made in Japan. Let them have it. I will agree with reliability of the Toyota and may be Honda, but not a Mazda, or even Nissan. That last one much, much better car producer than Mazda. Mazda=Ford. GM at same time always have been very good American brand. GMC as a company always produced good and reliable trucks and SUV compare with even Toyota 4 runner or Nissan pathfinder, or Honda/ Isuzu SUV.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Anyway this discuss board is going nowhere, because a lot people like what marked Made in Japan. Let them have it.

    C'mon vad. You aren't happy because not everyone agrees with you. If you feel the forum is going nowhere, don't let the door hit you on the way out. As far as I'm concerned, I'd say we've had a lot of intelligent discussion. This forum is a lot more lively than many of the comparison threads out there.

    I'm not trying to sound like a royal jerk here, but some people prefer vehicles other than those made by GM. Get over it, sheesh! :sick: There hasn't been any purely anti-GM bashing without credence going on here, but you seem to be getting your nose out of joint when someone mentions a vehicle other than the Acadia. GMC's Acadia is a fine vehicle, but there are other choices that happen to fit some people's needs/wants BETTER than General Motors Corporation builds!
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I brought up TrueDelta.com. They are a company that had issues with how CR evaluated their vehicles. They are fairly new. I never said what they say it totally accurate, but, rather another source for reliability ratings. From what they have posted so far, it seems to be inline with what most of us have been thinking. Also, you do not have to pay them money to evalutate your car. They also place a disclaimer stating that their sample sizes have been small. Since this is disclosed, I assume most people would not take them as law, as no one should take any publication, including JD Powers. The fact that JD Powers seems to be so far off from everyone else makes me question their results. I am not the only on that feels this way.
  • vad1819vad1819 Member Posts: 309
    You didn’t finish read my post. I gave argue, that the Mazda hasn't good ratability either.
    A lot people chose a CX-9, because this car has less reported issues, but in real world, maybe because mazda has fewer sales, than GM. has anyone numbers for sales for both vehicles?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    You didn’t finish read my post. I gave argue, that the Mazda hasn't good ratability

    And apparently you didn't understand mine. Multiple times you say this conversation isn't going anywhere. In the most recent case, you say people want to buy things that are Japanese.

    I'm not taking issue with Mazda or GM here, I'm just tired of hearing how the people who buy Japanese vehicles are ignorant, and ruining the thread. It sounds like little more than whining.

    The purpose of the thread is to compare crossover vehicles. Most of them happen to be sold by brands that are NOT domestic. I'd like to respectfully ask that if there are problems with subject matter, take them to the hosts in e-mail. I also ask that you quit implying that discussion about people buying Japanese is keeping the forums from "getting anywhere."
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    That last one much, much better car producer than Mazda. Mazda=Ford.

    Vad,

    Why should anyone listen to you, let along agree with you when you make ignorant statements like this? Many people come in these forums for useful information, because they are seeking advise on a vehicle they are considering. When you say things like this you help no one. If anything, you upset people. Don't take this a an attack, because it is not.

    We get it, you like GM. Good for you. That's great. Don't put down other brands if you are unfamiliar with them. Also, don't call Mazda, Ford, because that is incorrect as well. They are two different companies.

    The GMC Acadia is not for everyone. Nor is the Mazda CX-9 for everyone. I am not saying it is. Many have been burned by GM over the years in terms of quality, reliability, and dependability, so, there is good reason for some to stay away from GM. There is an over abundance of documented proof of this. Have they gotten better? Yes. Many, including myself, do not think they are on par with the Honda's and Toyota's of the world. This does not make others "wrong" for buying them, or supporting them.

    With most every Honda, Toyota, and even Mazda being recommended by almost every consumer publication, I cannot believe one can sit their and say they are not reliable. Also, most every consumer publication has also stated that most GM products have not been reliable, with the exception of Buick. We all know how I feel about that. But, all state the improvements they have made. They are what they are, improvements.

    Could the Acadia/Enclave be very reliabile? Sure. But, there has not really been any history to think so, where, other companies have given you reason to think their products will be reliable.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    The last two GM trucks I was in (a 2005 Chevrolet 2500HD and a 2003 Tahoe) already had lights burned out in the stereo, hvac, and instrument panel. That's a lack of interior quality.

    So you haven't been in the 2007 Tahoe. Just to fill you in, it has the nicest interior in its class- unless you count the Yukon Denali (same car). Gm has HUGELY improved.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    I don't really have much of an opinion about GMC or Mazda as far as reliability, I was just curious of your sources, since CR seems to counteract that. The Colorado and Envoy were pretty dismal as far as long-term reliability went, I believe.

    As were the Tribute and B-series
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I should clarify; the last two GM trucks I rode in. I have BEEN in the latest iterations of GM trucks (a Silverado LTZ has the same interior as a Tahoe, right?). It was much improved, but things like lights burning out and wear items is what I was talking about. The design is a lot nicer looking, however (at least in the upscale trucks, not necessarily the Work Truck interior).
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    Also, I challenge anyone to sit in a Lexus sedan and tell me with a straight face that Buick's quality is on par. Lexus puts everyone to shame as far as quality, making everyone else's offerings feel cheap.

    I challenge you to sit in a Benz and tell me they aren't on par.

    Plus, as Lexus' quality has fallen, its not about how the interior looks, because the two makers are in a different class (though GM may be on the brink of successfully changing that ) but the actual quality. I can believe that. And you have no information that can disprove it. Only an "old people don't know what their talking about". Old people drives Camrys. What do you say to that?
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    But you said 2005 Silvarado. Tahoe and Silvarado changed in 2007. And I haven't heard anything about burning out lights in the new SUVs.
  • unixxusunixxus Member Posts: 97
    Anyway this discuss board is going nowhere, because a lot people like what marked Made in Japan.

    To make vad happy, I suggest that anyone who has bought a non GM brand crossover recently should return or trade it in for an Acadia. In the mean time, the moderator should remove all comments about the Acadia that does not portray it as being the best in its class. ;)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    We aren't moderators, we're hosts. And y'all seem to be doing ok tolerating each others points of view.

    More eggnog anyone?
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    I tend to keep cars 10-15 years. I'm sure the Acadia would have performed well for the first 5 years, but I did not want to chance larger maintenance issues down the road. It seems even initial problems are lopsided compared to the Toyota or Mazda.

    GM has improved their reliability greatly even in the past 2 years, so they should be on par with every one else. But true, perception takes a chage in reputation. And GM is still battling one that overshadows its large amount of great new models.

    Overall, I'm happy with my purchase. I'll add my 2 cents when appropriate and continue to enjoy this forum.

    I shocked you enjoy it. It's nothing but bickering.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    As were the Tribute and B-series

    Actually, the Tribute rates out very well in long term reliability, according to CR, excluding the first year.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I never heard anything about burning out lights in the past GM trucks either, although it occurred regularly in 2 out of 2 GM trucks I frequented.

    I've already stated that the seat time I had in the NEW GM trucks illustrated an improved design, and modestly improved build quality. The reliability and resistance to wear will be the question as time passes.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    As were the Tribute and B-series

    Not what I remember reading.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    The CX-9 is definitely better than the Acadia

    Someone is definitely crazy (sorry-I couldn't resist :) )
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    As were the Tribute and B-series

    Not what I remember reading.


    I meant the previous Tribute. CR and JD bashed both those models- as did many other testers.
  • live2skilive2ski Member Posts: 25
    albook - yep, I tried to convince myself that the Acadia is the 'new' GM and it's just as good as anyone else. I was not ready to put my money on it. I have not checked, but I'm sure there are lemon Honda out there as well.

    this thread may be bickering (with some humor thrown in), but overall there is a lot of good information posted.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    As of November 1st sales are as follows:

    GMC Acadia: 65,372
    Saturn Outlook: 31,591
    Buick Enclave: 24,560
    Mazda CX-9: 19,630

    Only thing I cannot find is percentage of fleet sales. I know that the Outlook/Acadia have a lot of fleet sales, where as the Enclave and CX-9 really don't have any.
    My brother is the manager of a very very busy Enterprise Rent-A-Car, and has a fleet of Acadia's and Outlook's. No Enclave's or CX-9's.
  • vad1819vad1819 Member Posts: 309
    Yes, sure.
    I posted for first time about my experience with Acadia and about MT article, and I disagree how they tested it, and some people jump on me. I drove myself 2-3 times each of following: Highlander, CX-9, CX-7, Acadia, Outlook, Enclave, Veracruz, Tribeca, Freestyle, Edge, Tahoe, Commander, Pacifica, Pilot, 08' CRV, Suzuki XL-7, 07-08' Pathfinder, Murano. I have done research before got myself in deal and I stopped on three vehicles: Acadia, CX-9 and Pathfinder (yes, pathfinder). The best deal I got from Nissan, but I chose Acadia even paying couple bucks more. Because space and quite ride. I don't care how many times I will go to dealer; I don't pay for the repairs. It’s beauty of the brand new car. It’s 100 000 of power train warranty.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    GM has improved their reliability greatly even in the past 2 years, so they should be on par with every one else

    What proof do you have to back that up? You cannot go from bottom of the barrel to king of the hill in two years.
  • live2skilive2ski Member Posts: 25
    I don't care how many times I will go to dealer; I don't pay for the repairs.

    that's exactly my point. I don't want to go to the dealer again, even if it's free. This car is for my family and putting in the shop is a major inconvenience. what happens after 100k - all problems stop? maybe you plan on selling it before then, I'm not. 100k is only half way there.
  • vad1819vad1819 Member Posts: 309
    Yet, If I have tons of money i would buy Mercedes R350. They're really have sport drive style,-"zoom zoom" or wherever.
    How is going look your CX-9 after 100k? Cheap plastic..a lot plastic and rubber trim around the car, they even use rubber seal on bottom of the door to protect from splashes. In good weather conditions(CA) it'll be ok, but in cold regions...........
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    How is going look your CX-9 after 100k? Cheap plastic..a lot plastic and rubber trim around the car, they even use rubber seal on bottom of the door to protect from splashes. In good weather conditions(CA) it'll be ok, but in cold regions...........

    It's the same material you find in a bumper, just unpainted because it looks better. There is nothing cheap about the CX-9.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "More eggnog anyone?"

    From the sound of it, some people could use a bit of "spiked" eggnog! :P
  • nxs138nxs138 Member Posts: 481
    Data from Truedelta.com CX-9 2007 54 trip per year from 27 customers.
    Acadia 2007 98 trips per year from 95 customers.
    you can't compare this data. This data absolutly useless.


    Take a deep breath, and read more carefully: right at the top, it says "trips/year per 100 vehicles". So the data is already normalized for you out of 100 vehicles.

    So for the CX-9, it's 54 trips per 100 vehicles, while for the Acadia, it's 98 trips per 100 vehicles. That's all you have to look at. The website has already factored in the # owners, etc, and uses a sample size that is large enough to be statistically significant.

    So based on truedelta's results, odds are that if you own a 2007 Acadia, you'll be in the shop more often than if you owned the 2007 CX-9 (almost twice as likely being in the shop with the Acadia). Fortunately, the 2008 Acadia is faring much better, only 36 trips to the shop per 100 vehicles so far. That's great news, since it means GM has likely corrected a lot of the issues that plagued the 2007.

    This is why I like Truedelta. You can actually see the numbers and see how the car improves or worsens as time goes by! And the Acadia is improving!
  • scottinkyscottinky Member Posts: 194
    I shopped the Pathfinder, but failed to look at the CX-9 or Acadia which
    I really wanted to do. So, instead, I ended up with a new Armada LE.
    Despite the gas mileage, it is an absolutely fabulous truck. None of the saturn
    dealers I spoke with wanted to neogitate on anything other than 07s. Try
    getting an 8ft christmas tree inside a CUV ;)
  • vad1819vad1819 Member Posts: 309
    I can agree, all Nissan SUV's very fine built vehicles. But the pathfinder reliability always has been so, so. I know lately Pathfinder model gets better. I almost agreed for deal for 08' Pathfinder, but decide wait for GM offer and they came up.
    By the way Acadia has more cargo space then Armada 97 vs 116 Acadia and second up third down Armada 56.7 vs 68.9 Acadia, second and third up Armada 20 vs 25.5 Acadia.
    Mazda's never came up even close to numbers from GM or Nissan. It's my experience from Mazda dealership, not all dealership same.
    I never heard anything from owners of the Veracruz. Are they happy? It's good car, but I still kind afraid pay for it. It's not about d.... reliability, it's about driving abilities.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    I want to make a statement about reliability, and taking a vehicle to the shop.

    It is a great deal of inconvienience to take a vehicle in to the dealer ship. No one can say different. However every vehicle has to go in once or twice during ownership. No one wants a total lemon, but as long as you take good care of your car and have regular service done, most cars should not have too many problems. Out of all of my previous automotive affairs- which include German, Japenese, Korean and American, I can't say I've had too many problems with any. These include sevveralgood encounters with American cars- like a Chrysler that went 10 years with only 3 non service shop stays. Maybe I'm lucky, and I know there may be Honda, Toyota or even American owners that do better, but I don't think anyone can tell me that is a ridicoulous number of times. If I really like the vehicle and know it's best for me, once every two years is fine with me. I rather have that then spending 2-3 years paying a note for a 40k+ investment for something only because Consumer reports or JD power says it will never have to go back to the shop on its fault. Its a perspective thing.

    I don't think anyone should make a choice based soley on what any one magazine or internet or anyother source says about a vehicle because truely, they don't know how you drive your car. Only you do.
  • scottinkyscottinky Member Posts: 194
    WOW. I knew the GMs had room, but i didn't think that much. The
    Armada is huge inside, I definitely should have driven the Acadia. what
    stuck me were the mixed reports on gas mileage. I wouldn't have considered
    the Mazda due to crappy 3rd row seat access. The Pathfinder in that regard
    was HORRID. the driver and passenger seats were great, the back seats
    sucked. my dad and I tried to get back there, forget it.
  • vad1819vad1819 Member Posts: 309
    Now I can say all other CUV look like mini CUV compare to Acadia.
    Do you know,that the Acadia has more cargo space than Tahoe.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Now I can say all other CUV look like mini CUV compare to Acadia.

    You can, but you won't find a response you'll like when you say it. I for one find your statement completely silly, and nothing more than inflamatory bashing of everything-not-Acadia (which isn't really a surprise considering the source these days). The Acadia is a large CUV, and if bigger is always better, I say go for it vad. Some people will want a lighter car, however; or one that is easier to park, handles sharper, something that could actually fit in the garage, and that doesn't make them all inferior, or "mini" crossovers.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, Acadia seems mini compared to something else I've been asked repeatedly not to mention in this thread. ;)

    I agree that the Pathfinder's 3rd row is not comfy, way too upright IMO.

    I drove an Armada after sampling a Quest but it got 13/17 mpg even before the EPA downrated the figures. Plus my kid could not reach the door handles.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They're here. Saw one last night at a PTA meeting. I'm pretty sure I know the owner, but it was a bit late to ask for a test ride.

    That's the first one I've seen out of the auto show circuit.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Well, Acadia seems mini compared to something else I've been asked repeatedly not to mention in this thread.


    Hehe, my thought exactly :D . I just chose not to voice that opinion again, since most of us here know a mini^@# will have more cargo capacity, and in most cases, better fuel consumption than a CUV.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Well, Acadia seems mini compared to something else I've been asked repeatedly not to mention in this thread.

    Speaking of the one we are not allowed to speak of....I took a 2005 XLE on trade the other day, and the owner said they were trading out of it because the average fuel economy they were getting was 18mpg, and they had to use premium fuel. Is premium recommended? They traded into a Mazda3 5-door, BTW.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    If premium was in fact recommended, it wouldn't be manditory.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The 3MZ engine (that's the 3.3l V6) only required regular octane, though in some applications I believe premium was recommended.

    The new 2GR engine (3.5l V6) also only requires regular octane in Toyota models.

    Some Lexus models (the 2GR-FSE in the IS350 comes to mind) add Direct Injection and over 300hp, and in those cases premium fuel is required.

    Both engines power different years of the RX and the Highlander crossovers.

    So it's pretty much what you'd expect, you can run 87 octane, but if you buy the high performance model expect to pay more for fuel as well.

    Here is where it gets truly odd - Toyota uses the new 3.5l in the GS hybrid, but stayed with the 3.3l for the Highlander Hybrid and RX400H.

    Meanwhile, the non-hybrid crossovers get the 3.5l 2GR V6.

    Why they choose to continue building the 3.3l, which they say costs $1000 more to manufacture, is beyond me.
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