Toyota Highlander

wwest

I'm saying that the RX and HL's (Rx and HL specifically, not including AWD by other brands)AWD implementation is not much better than an HL or RX with only FWD. When you pay the extra for AWD on these vehicles virtually all you get for the extra money is a lot of extra non-functional weight to haul around.

AWD vs 4WD drive w/chains. No, I said no such thing. What I did say is that there were occassions when I needed 4WD(locked center diff'l) and four chains. And I also said that the RX and HL's AWD implementation was not nearly as good as the Jeep's AWD implementation. Not that it mattered since, as I said, I cannot testify that the Jeep's AWD ever did me any good.

But my point was that at least underway, the Jeep's AWD AND four chains worked satisfactorily.

wwest

"Question the driver's skill, and then the vehicle's off-road prowness".

Any driver with the skill to know how to handle a vehicle off-road would normally be expected to use that "skill", first, in the proper selection of vehicles.

Off-road driving skill comes primarily from experience, not book-learning. Now go ask your skilled off-road driving buddies if they think you made a good selection.

I've taken my 78 911 out on the sand dunes of WA and OR, successfully, and over Snoqualmie Pass in the dead of winter (yeah, I know, stupid. Drove over when it was bright and shiny, had to come back regardless) but that only means that I am a skillful, and conservative (when and as it's appropriate), driver. It certainly doesn't mean my 911 is an off-road vehicle.

But with the rear weight bias over the driven wheels it probably is as good as the HL or RX.

Take that last as a non-serious pun.

landdriver

If you had to pay MSRP for a 2003 or invoice for a 2002, then I'd say the 2002 is a way-better deal seeing you'll be saving a couple of thousand!

rl989

I have a 2002 V6 AWD with 1200 miles on it so far. I just calculated the mileage on my last tank at 18.9 mpg. About 70% city and 30% highway driving.

cmcardle

This is from the very recent Edmunds review of the new 4Runner (http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/74756/article.html), and I think its depiction of the two vehicles is dead-on.

"While other SUVs in its class have evolved into kinder, gentler versions of their originals, the 4Runner has retained much of its truckish character.

This might seem like a misguided philosophy when you consider that few SUV owners actually go off-road, but Toyota looks at the situation a bit differently. It sees the 4Runner's all-terrain capability as a selling point over its rivals. If you want a "soft roader," there are plenty to choose from (the Toyota Highlander being a convenient suggestion). But if you want a real sport-utility, the 4Runner is still the real deal."

nippononly

is that having been a casual offroader for a while, I would shudder to take an HL into real offroad situations where I have taken my 4Runner, if I had ANY commitment to keeping it long-term. Delicate suspension, unibody design, reduced clearance. No locking center diff for deep sand or mud. But I am sure I would have no hesitation to drive it on the beach either! 'Nuff said.

And I really like the HL - I think it serves the needs perfectly of the vast majority of SUV buyers. Not to mention, drives like a dream!

Unfortunately, while I think Toyota has done exactly the RIGHT thing in re-committing to the offroad ability of the 4Runner, making Highlander their "city SUV", I fear they will not be able to meet their sales goals of 100,000 per year this way, since I don't think there are that many buyers in the market for a serious, truck SUV. Once they make the highlander longer and put in that third seat, I think 4Runner sales will drop off a lot.

cmcardle

I should have included my own comment: that I know the capabilities of the HL, decided that's what I need, and make no apologies for the vehicle or my decision.

wwest

None needed or asked, more input is asked.

stringfellowh

Ok, forgive me folks if this has been mentioned already..but why is a Porsche/Lexus guy sounding off in this venue? With this logic, I think I'll head over to the Karhman Gia message board and lament about the early air cooled engine-even though I've never even been near a K/G!
My off-on road ratio is about 40/60. When not off road, this HL spends most of its time traversing the narrow streets of lower Manhattan and that huge parking lot known as the Long Island Expressway. Should I have chosen the 4 runner? lets see..an completely uncomposed and unrefined ride, leaf spring rate that makes Charles Ingalls' wagon seem like a Cadillac..oh but yes..we do have a 'true' 4wd drive system inherent in the 4runner. For all of those times when I find myself in a remote jungle or rocky wash ravine..I'll shudder and think back to when I was signing on the line for the HL and wish I opted for the 4runner. Until that Paramount Pictures scenario comes to fruition(and the big screen) I am and will continue to be confident that I, as an experienced off roader, made the right choice. Being an off roader doesnt mean you have to be in lock step with the hypoid axle boys. Liquid Glass the rockers, be cognisant of large rocks, blow sand and debris out from under the body with compressed air when done for the day and step up your maintenance schedule..now you're ready to get out there and live your life off road..safe in the knowledge that West is undoubtedly disabled on the side of the road and chewing the tow truck driver's ear off about how a F-350 Wrecker can't compete with a GM wrecker.

wdr2

I recently took my Highlander into the dealer for the breather hose clamp recall. Do they go in through the cargo area floor to get to the clamp?
Ever since the work was done, I get a "klunk" sound in the cargo area when I go over a bump or pothole. Sounds like it might be the jack, but I checked that, and it's snug as a bug. Anybody else have this happen? Any ideas what else it might be? I already called the dealer and told them I'm bringing it back in it I can't find the problem myself. But the fewer hands that touch this car, the better off I feel.
So, do they go through the cargo floor to get to the clamp?

Thanks

skyreb

I continue to read here more than I want to know about Toyota's AWD. I seriously hope my HL will never be off road. I apprecate that many like to off road, and that is great .... select a vehicle that is suitable for that activity. I personally own a Ford F-250 4x4. If I ever need to go off road, I got it covered.
Now, why do I own an AWD? I live in northern New Hampshire where we have 4-5 months of snow. I also own a FWD sedan, and have experienced many times when it would not get up my steep drive until after I had cleared the snow, put sand down, and carefully nursed it up (still with a lot of slipping and sliding). The HL has never failed to come up the drive even in deep snow. The HL has never fish-tailed; or spun out. I care less about the technical debate, and place a lot more value in the real world performance and my driving experience. In my judgement, for what I need, I could not be happier with the HL and it's AWD.

Happy HL'ing to all.

boiko

Does anyone know if you should be able to order 2003's with both 4WD and VSC's..........on the non-Limited model? I know that if you look at the options, you can check the boxes and build your own custom HL. But, in the real world many package/combinations are very hard to come by. Is this one of those hard to come by combinations?

Thanks,
-mike-

sportsterer

wdr2,
try checking the plastic liner located directly beneath the rear deck lid. mine was vibrating, actually, not clunking, and since the deck lid fits tight i simply folded two wedges out
of paper towel to the appropriate thickness and placed them between the deck lid and the liner, fore and aft.
problem solved.

nimrod99

Have you tried to get a better deal.
I have 2 deals on an '03 Highlander that are $900 over invoice (Ltd, AWD, VSC, leather, sunroof etc)
Invoice is 31,349, offer is 32,249.

nippononly

Toyota's website has a place to put in your zip code, then build your own vehicle...if it will let you build it for your zip code, chances are pretty good that it can be located somewhere near you...

purcat

When I called the dealer about the clamp recall, I was told the process involves taking the gas tank off. True? And, is there another new recall? I still love my HL and am looking forward to winter!!!! Also, I really enjoy reading messages. I'm glad that sludge doesn't seem to be a topic anymore. Thanks P.S. I wonder if I'm the only female to read this message board!!!

vinod_s3

Thanks nimrod99, where are you located ? In the east coast ? I'm at NJ, and the dealers here are an arrogant bunch.

scanner

Purcat,

"When I called the dealer about the clamp recall, I was told the process involves taking the gas tank off. True?"

True, the process involves lowering the gas tank. Plus, I haven't heard that Toyota recommends this, but I would suggest having the gas tank recall work done on an near empty tank.

"And, is there another new recall?"

None that I've heard of yet besides the old brake cap recall.

"I'm glad that sludge doesn't seem to be a topic anymore."

I don't recall sludge ever being an issue with the HL, as the HL is too new for one thing. Then again, as far as I am concerned, the only way to get sludge is improper maintenance (not changing your oil when it needs to be chanced, etc).

"I wonder if I'm the only female to read this message board!!!"

BTW, would you happen to be single? ;-)

stever

Steady Scanner! May be the only one posting in here today, but gotta be lots of lurkers of the feminine persuasion reading.

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

sportsterer

stringfellowh,
way to go, good buddy. you put a cherry on it.

jrfiero

quote from 6473 at the end of this post. Not to reignite the sludge issue, but -

Sludge IS an issue with 2001 Highlanders, Toyota made a running change in its engines long after the 2001s were out.
The comment about improper maintenance is Toyota's party line, and isn't true in numerous documented cases. You minimize the risk of sludge by following the severe maintenance schedule, and eliminate the risk by using synthetic oil.

"6473 of 6475 Recall, Sludge, Etc. by scanner Sep 26, 2002 (08:27 pm)

I don't recall sludge ever being an issue with the HL, as the HL is too new for one thing. Then again, as far as I am concerned, the only way to get sludge is improper maintenance (not changing your oil when it needs to be chanced, etc)."

svtcobraconv

Not sure if anyone has posted on this particular problem. Our 2002 HL has a buzzing sound that seems to be coming from the front edge (my best first guess) of the rails of the luggage rack. This ONLY happens when it is raining. This is not the cross-wind door seal problem described as a reed-like noise. This never happens when it is dry, and always happens when wet, regardless of cross winds. Has anyone else experienced this?
Thanks!

scanner

Jrfiero,

You're going to have to convince me. I am not trying to argue with you, but I still stand by my comments that the only way to get sludge is to not maintain your vehicle the way it needs to be maintained. I personally feel it's impossible for an owner's manual to tell everyone how they should maintain their vehicle for every possible situation. As far as the "running change" is concerned, I bet it's nothing more than a superficial change to make consumers minds feel better. Anyone have the specific details on the change or is there anyone here with a sludge problem?

stever

If you want to dig deeper, start with this post and then check the "FAQ" posts listed there:

tmsusa1 "Engine Sludge/Oil Gelling--Toyota's Customer Response" May 3, 2002 6:17pm

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

nimrod99

What exactly is a "molded dash applique by superior"
If someone know - I'd appreciate being enlightened.

Thanks

bikerjohn

Check this site for different molded dash appliques. The option that Toyota offers looks like the dash in the Limited model.

http://www.wooddash.com/category/TOYOTA_Dash_Kits_HIGHLANDER

scanner

Steve,

Thanks for the link. I read most of the 765 messages before I became blurry eyed, so I might have missed some things. Seems like the "running change" is a modification to the PCV hose? I wouldn't hold my breath on that having much significance. There were lots of good questions, but only a few good answers. The guy from Toyota sure seemed to dance around questions. It was good to see Mr Shiftright hosting; brought back memories of when we used to joke about Earl Sheib paint jobs years ago.

Without getting too long winded, I'll still stick by my comment that people should change their oil when the oil needs to be change. Period! Throw the owner's manual in the trash (not literally of course). Think of changing the oil as kind of like changing tires.

The remark "the owner's manual says..." was may favorite. Personally, I believe maintenance is put at the back of the owner's manual on purpose because its the last thing people want to worry about and its the last thing manufactures want people to think about. One question I liked was "how did the maintenance interval increase?" My theory is its not that anything improved, but auto manufactures want to lower their projected ownership cost when folks like Edmunds do projected ownership cost analysis.

Okay, that's enough for now. :-)

stever

I got a bit blurry-eyed reading the sludge stuff in Vans too, Scanner. Luckily I was able to dump most of that stuff on Shifty :-) I was thinking there may have been an oil passage or two in the head that was slightly enlarged as well, but no huge deal. Maybe Cliffy1 remembers.

Being a deferred maintenance kind of guy myself, I guess the manufacturers are marketing to me. That reminds me, it's been 8,000 miles - I need to change my MV oil soon.

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

03bluestone

I just bought a 6924 and the VSC was included. I find it hard to believe that you can't find it. Are you going for a V6 ?

sportsterer

we just heard from our service advisor regarding the breather clamp fix. he told me that it does not involve taking the tank off, that the clamp simply needs to be adjusted. is it possible to read the factory spec. on this repair procedure somewhere?

lexus_addicted

I just bought a new Toyota Highlander Limited V6 4WD. It comes the 8 speaker JBL audio system and a in dash 6 CD changer.

So far I've found 6 speakers, 1 tweeter and 1 main speaker in each of the front doors, thats 4 speakers, and 1 main speaker in each of the back doors. Total, I've found six. Where are the other two speakers?

Thanks

gwkiser

The "main" speakers in the front doors actually have two drivers (speakers) in each, thereby completing your 8-speaker system.

bluestone87

Anyone change the tires on their Highlander to improve performance or ride.

lexus_addicted

I don't like the Goodyear Integrity that are factory installed on the Highlander, they look like summer tires rather than 4-season.

I think I am going to do some 20000 kms with them and then get a set of Michelin Cross Terrain 4-season tires that are made for SUVs. According to reviews in www.tirerack.com, the Crossterrains are much better handler than the Goodyear Integrity.

I am living in Canada, so a set of good snow tires is a must. I've picked the Michelin Arctic Alpin. Originally I was thinking about Bridgestone Winter Dueler, but I've read that if the Winter Dueler is used a lot on cold and dry pavement, the tread will get wear down too quickly, because the Winter Dueler has a very soft rubber. Michelin Arctic Alpin is a snow tire made for winter highway driving with a slightly harder rubber than the Bridgestone.

ch1133

I was debating if I should buy a 03 Highlander in LA area when flying there later this month. Is there any difference in cars sold in CA. compared to other states. Here I was thinking about emissions robbing the car of power and decresed fuel efficiency...Does anyone know?

wdr2

Scanner,

Too late for me, as my tank was full when I went in for the clamp recall... but why do you advise an empty tank for that procedure?

Thanks!

landdriver

I think what gwkiser meant is that the speakers in the REAR doors actually have two speakers in each (each rear speaker is coaxial, meaning that each one consists of two speakers, a woofer and a tweeter mounted in the center of the woofer).

gwkiser

landdriver said:
"I think what gwkiser meant is that the speakers in the REAR doors actually have two speakers in each ...."

Er, uh, OOPS! I stand corrected! Thanks!!

scanner

The procedure as it was explained to me involves loosening the fuel tank enough to lower it slightly from the vehicle, but not necessarily enough to remove it completely from the vehicle to the point where you could carry it across the street, for example. Apparently, there's a clamp that's located on the topside of the fuel tank (part of the ORVR valve) that needs to be accessed and rotated. I have not seen the procedure performed nor have I seen any written spec. My assumption is the vehicle would be put up in the air on a lift while the fuel tank is lowered slightly with perhaps a transmission jack of sorts.

A near empty fuel tank will simply be easier to handle than a near full tank which should allow for an easier removal and re-installation. Also, it will be easier to check the security of an empty/lighter tank than a full tank due to the weight of fuel. Not to mention the extra explosive potential of a full fuel tank.

If it turns out to be true that the fuel tank is separated from the vehicle for this procedure, I'd be willing to bet that your klunk is caused by a loose fuel tank. If so, you will probably not notice the noise as much once low on fuel.

Below is a link to the wording of the recall that Toyota sent out.

http://www.safetyalerts.com/recall/a/02/v00294.htm

scanner

For the 2nd time I somehow managed to accidently turn off the headlights while hitting the turn signal switch while driving at night. Toyota needs to get the headlight control off of the turn signal switch as far as I am concerned. Also, I can't stand the Japanese push for high beams feature, as it makes the turn signal switch feel noticeably out of location if driving with the high beams on. Not to mention that I also find myself sometimes accidently activating the high beams when signaling turns; made even worse in the day when the lights aren't on. I much prefer the American automobile pull for high beam standard. Plus, I find the turn signal stalk be a little too short. Okay, I admit I am the type who likes to swat at the turn signal, but still... Errr...

cmuniz

My dealer took a total of 15 min to do the work, so I'm sure nothing was removed. It must be a fairly simple fix.

jmarouse

I had a pair of Bridgestone Duelers on my Pathfinder, You are right, not much tread and not good in snow - but great on dry pavement. Consumer Reports just came out with SUV tire ratings. May want to check out.

My 2002 HL came with Bridgestone Duler H/T tires. more tread than the Goodyear - We will see in snow -We also get a lot of Snow in Nebraska...

nippononly

have been like that for oh, about a million years. If it was that big a problem, why buy it in the first place? Personally, I prefer this style - you can tell if the high beams are on before you turn the lights on. And as for turning them off when signalling, I can't imagine that - you must be DESTROYING that turn signal switch every time you go for a turn!

rphillips2

I have a set of Michelin Cross Terrains on order with Costco. I'll report back after I have driven on them a couple of days. Can't wait to get rid of the Goodyears.

wwest

No, it is too easy, extremely so, to turn off the headlamps when activating the turn signals. On my 92 LS it took me a long time to "learn" how to use turn signals with blinding myself at night.

nippononly

hates Toyotas, huh? Between the AWD discussion, where EVERY OTHER VEHICLE IN THE WORLD has a better AWD system, and the turn signals that are LIKE THIS ON EVERY JAPANESE VEHICLE OUT THERE, not to mention, HAVE BEEN LIKE THIS EVER SINCE THEY HAVE BEEN SELLING TOYOTAS IN AMERICA, Toyota must have really wronged you.

Those Cross Terrains are excellent tires - for ride quality, noise, and snow traction, they just can't be beat.

wdr2

Thanks, Scanner, for your suggestion that my post-recall "clunk" might be a loose fuel pump. Not what I wanted to hear, of course.

I called a nearby dealer (not the one I went to for the service) and spoke with the service manager, pretending I hadn't had the recall work done yet. In answer to my questions, he said that they partially drop the fuel tank, reach in to reverse the clamp, and then re-attach the tank. I specifically asked about the fuel pump, and he said it's not involved. So for anyone who wants to know, that's the procedure.

My "clunk" sounds like it's in the cargo area, so maybe it's just those plastic bins bouncing under the cargo mat as Sportsterer had suggested. At least it's infrequent, as clunks go.

gwkiser

From what I've heard, all CA cars are 50 state emissions legal. Additionally, our '01 V6 Ltd we purchased here in TX came with this option (FE) at no charge. Most likely, the HL you might purchase from your local dealer is a "50 states emissions" vehicle also. FWIW, I'm not sure if this feature is even listed on the '02 and newer models....perhaps they're all equipped the same now. Many of the dealers today have websites set up, so that those wishing to purchase from out of town or out of state can peruse the inventory online. In the LA area, Carson Toyota specifically comes to mind. [BTW, I'm not affiliated with any dealer.]

gwkiser

I have to agree with nippon on this one. I've owned both an Avalon and a Highlander and have never had these problems. Heck, I've even driven my B-I-L's RX on many occasions and again, not a problem. Come to think of it, I remember driving my parents' '69 Crown (yes, that's a Toyota model) and never having these problems then either. Perhaps an adjustment on the driver's part is in order.

hlron

I second Gwkiser on agreeing with Nippononly, on both the high beam issue and the headlight switch itself; I have just under 24,000 miles on my Highlander, I have had it since June 2001, and I have never once accidentially turned off my headlights when using the turn signal. In fact, I don't see or understand how it would be easy to do so, but we all have different driving/operating styles, and I mean no disrespect to anyone. I also like the set up of the high/low beam control.