Good question, and I am not qualified to answer. I believe that a limited slip differential is more mechanical, and when one wheel slips, it is sensed and additional power is directed to the wheel that is not slipping. I suspect skid control is electron, with sensors that monitor variations in the surface adhesion, tracking, and "drift" and an on-board computer manages the power to the wheels. (experts are invited to take your shots at that feeble explanation) I do not have skid control on my HL (AWD, V6, unlimited)(but I do not want to discourage you on the basis of my limited knowledge). By nature, I am leery of advanced features that I worry my local dealer may not be able to maintain. I will be keeping my HL for a number of years (my other car is a 92 Acura). Will all the sophisticated electronics and sensor need repair or adjustment in the next 10 years or more? What about a minor accident, can a body shop get everything aligned and functioning again? I do not know!! I am certain, however, you will appreciate the HL's quality, fit, finish, power and economy. Happy HL'ing to all.
irishcasey: I just thought I would put my 2 cents in. I have a 4cyl 4wd with almost 5K miles and love it. It has plenty of power. I have owned a few Toyota 4 cylinders over the years and all have been very reliable. I would recommend the 4cyl.
Toyota Recalls Highlanders for Brake Work DETROIT (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp. is recalling more than 41,000 Highlander sport utility vehicles because of a potential problem with their brakes. The problem, announced by federal regulators in a monthly list of automotive recalls, stems from potential leakage of air into the Highlander's braking system, which can lead to increased stopping distances and heightened risks of a crash. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) said 41,169 of the SUVs from the 2001 model year were included in the recall.
I was very close to buying a Highlander, but I keep reading about the new and improved Honda CR-V. In balancing the two, each has good arguments in its favor. They aren't really equivalent vehicles... each has several elements that make it stand out from the other. I guess until I can drive the CR-V, I won't know for sure. (And I might still be conflicted even then!)
Rear the topic "Toyota 4 Wheels Drives Systems Explained". It is the 4th topic down in the SUV conference. It should answer your question on VSC versus LSD.
I've posted many times about break ins. It is my opinion that the owners manual is a bit paranoid. Technicians at my dealership feel the same way, except they do suggest going easy on the brakes for the first 200 miles to seat the pads and rotors.
Have driven several Highlanders and like the vehicle, but couldn't decide between the 4&6 cyl for a number of reasons. During my on-line search I found the redesigned CR-V. Can't stand the wait but I would really like to take a look at the CR-V before I make my final choice. My sister has a 97 CR-V that she loves and has never had a problem with. Toyota and Honda both make reliable vehicles that are usually care free in terms of mechanical issues, although I see there is a new recall on the Highlander. Given the current state of world affairs, I will strongly consider the mpg of a vehicle before I buy. Gas is reasonable now, but what will it be in a year or two? Hope that the new CR-V shows up soon, I think that it is to be delivered mid Nov. Do wish that Toyota offered a 4 cyl with the limited package, I would pick one up tomorrow if they did.
I owned a 97 CRV. Nice vehicle but nothing compared to the HL. Ride was noisy. I had problems with transmission and CV joints which were replaced. Driving position was poor also, as you always felt like you were driving a bus. Wore me out after driving an hour or two on a long trip. And power was not enough to go up hills without the engine/trans downshifting into a lower gear and still not keeping up with traffic. So if you live in a hilly area beware!
Overall I don't think the CRV and HL can be compared to each other - very different vehicles (size, AWD, etc.).
Be sure to look at Consumers Reports writeup on the CRV, and drive one a while and check out the driving position.
The HL is a major upgrade from the CRV. Maybe the new CRV will improve upon previous years. I owned a 97 CRV, first year production and there were lots of problems the first year (as there were the first year of the Honda Odyssey minivan).
I'm glad I bought my 2001 HL and I've enjoyed it with NO problems. Now on 2,600 miles and love driving it.
It appears the driver's side wiper arm is beginning to rust on my HL. There are two small spot welds on the arm that are pitted. I know from previous experience with a Corolla that the arms, if left untreated, will rust quickly. Black Satin Rustoleum should be sufficient to neutralize the rust. Have any other HL drivers noticed this pitting?
I was cross shopping Tribute and Highlander. Ruled both out, Tribute for poor quality, Highlander for price and bloated station wagon look. Now waiting for the new CRV.
VSC is nice but it goes off whenever you step on the brake. In an emergency situation I always stomp on the brake and ABS takes over. ABS I think prevents skid as well and reduces speed at the same time. I think VSC is more valuable for a hot rod driver who like to zip in and out of traffic, reckless types who doesn't have the good sense to slow down into sharp turns. BTW, even VSC has limitations.
VSCs are hard to come by on Highlander, you have to buy the most expensive Limited MSRPed at $34k or highier. That's 10k more than an 02CRV without it.
I own a 1999 CRV and a 2001 HL. Each vehicle serves a different segment of the market. The CRV is definitely a mini-suv. The engine is smaller and works harder and the cargo capacity is noticeably smaller. There is road noise and acceleration is somewhat lacking. It is a great car to drive around for errands in town and can maneuver quite well.
The HL is much more quieter and has better acceleration. It is more plush and I feel safer in it, due to its size. It is a joy for long trips, also fine for short errands, but with the CRV, you can zip to and fro with more agility. The HL is just ok for sharp turns and emergency maneuvers.
I'm not too technical, but for sure the VSC will still be working for you while you are braking. As VSC use ABS to brake each wheel separately to bring the car back to the intented course, but not sure they cut the engine power to control the skid. Totally agree that to get the VSC package is too expensive. Peter
If you are already applying the brakes, the VSC system can not work. The VSC advantage comes into play in a number of situations, but not braking. The most obvious advantage is emergency lane changes, which is where most roll overs occur. This has nothing to do with hot rodding but rather evasive maneuvers.
The other time for advantage is icy roads. It compensates for sliding and skidding quite credibly.
Interesting, I didn't know that Toyota's VSC doesn't work under braking. Do the brakes override it? FWIW, MB's ESP system does work under braking. It can re-direct different amounts of braking effort to the different wheels in order to try to prevent a slide from occuring.
Honestly, I haven't researched this. I am working under the assumption that a manufacturer would not want to over ride your ability to stop. I could be wrong on this.
Oh no, the MB ESP system doesn't hinder your ability to stop. It just redirects the brake effort to the different wheels in the event that the vehicle is starting to slide in an effort to prevent that slide. Some other systems may or may not have the same abilities. Unfortunately, there isn't much information out there on the VSC system so I can't say for sure either. If I come across any further information, I'll definitely share it with everyone. Thanks for the input anyway.
Drew Host Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Always wanted a CRV, have owned 7 Hondas and all have been extremely dependable... but the CRV was underpowered, noisy and had no moonroof(a necessity in SoCal, if you ask me, won't buy without it)... looove the Highlander, but HATE the Ivory colored leather, and have been quoted a 4 month wait for a V6, 4WD LTD w/ charcoal cloth... cut to last week... saw the new CRV, nice! Moonroof, more power, 4whl disc brakes... and easier on the environment(and wallet). Guess I'll hold off on that 'build order' Highlander... tho I do love that Toyota.
After reversing out of a parking space or my garage, I've noticed a distinct mechanical noise from the engine compartment/front of the car after I put the car in drive and travel a short distance. I guess it's sort of a clicking noise. Is it a fuel pump kicking in, the ABS system calibrating or something I should worry about?
Let me guess, it only does this once after start up right? It is very normal. It is the ABS system doing a self diagnostic test. you will hear it again a few seconds after you engage the ABS.
Hey everyone. After following this board for some time and I've finally ordered a 2002 Highlander with combo package A for 28K. I live in the Midwest near Minnesota and I wanted to know what other people are paying. Is this a reasonable price or should I cancel and let them take my 200 deposit when the car comes in at the end of the year?
I noticed in the '02 brochure under the heading Accessories it lists "Video Entertainment System". Does anyone have the details of exactly what you get and the price and availability of such?
I'm the guy who asked about the break-in period. Turns out the dealer lied about trucking it. The salesman drove it the 300 miles from South Florida. They also jacked the price by $500 on the paperwork. This was about 10 minutes after the salesman told us he was disgusted by the sleazy reputation of the car business and proud to work at such an up-front dealer. Yeah, right.
But my wife wanted the car, so we had them re-do the paperwork and bought it for $31,860, $1750 off the sticker. We got a 2001 FWD 3.0L V6 Limited with leather, VSC, upgrade stereo, side air bags, moonroof, tow prep. Midnight Green with Ivory leather.
I didn't want the 2002 because of the console. We liked the pass-thru to the back seat. So far, everything's fine. It has excellent pickup, great brakes, and a feel of quality and comfort. Looking forward to taking trips in it, and we plan to keep it for 10 years.
My sister is looking at the Highlander. There's no TMV price from Edmunds and carsdirect.com is only offering them at a couple hundred below MSRP? Are these things really that popular? What's everyone paying?
I've been out of the office, and others have addressed a couple of these issues, but since you asked...
Irishcasey - We like the Port-installed-Option ("PIO") leather. In our case, the distributor is SE Toyota and the Port is Jacksonville, FL. Other distributors may have different leather and the factory leather is different yet, though I haven't seen it other than in pictures. The SE PIO leather is perforated, seems to be of decent quality and is also available in grey, which I believe is either limited to certain exterior colors of unavailable from the factory. I suspect that if you want leather with a 4cyl, you'll have to either factory order, as we did, or divert and incoming vehicle and have your dealer instruct the distributor to "add" leather at the port, which can be done, at least at Jax. Doubtful you'll find a 4cyl equipped that way otherwise. Hope that helps.
Kdubs -- the 2002 center console, non-limited, is trimmed with the grey plastic that the rest of the dash is and the covers to the ashtray, and cupholder tray are done in the carbon-fiber look stuff. It looks good, bottom-line. probably would also look decent in the woodgrain look of the Limited as well. A huge improvement, overall, versus the 2001, unless you really wanted the walk-thru ability.
Osoriob - the Step Bars were also Jax/SE Toyota PIO. $425 sticker, $240 invoice. They are stainless steel, tubeular and with rubber step inserts for each door. Realitically, they are mostly for looks (kinda of reinforces the SUV concept, versus those who may say it is a glorified station wagon), though my kids use them and they are helpful for washing the roof and changing the lightbuld in your garage door opener. Downside is that they get dirty and you have to step out to avoid them if you have slacks and/or care.
On a side note, my wife managed to pull a whopping 16mpg on our second tank of gas (V6, 2wd, Miami city traffic).
Cliffy, I think Toyota changed something in the radio for 2002, because after trying everything possible, the base radio we have will not perform the mid-range "trick".
Everything else is great. Dealer still hasn't cashed my check yet, 12 days later. Still getting used to how well the doors seal and having to really push them to get them to close all of the way. My '98 Cobra doesn't have that problem...
It all depends on if it is a 4x4 or 4x2. I'd say 28k is reasonable for a 4x4 with combo A. I live in central Iowa and got a price quote of $27,400 for a 4x4 with combo A. This was from a dealer south of Minneapolis. Haven't decided yet to go with the 4x2 or 4x4 myself. Is it worth the extra $$?
Do have all my respect, I just want to share this useful information to everyone on this board.
As mention by drew the MB's ESP system does work under braking, which is made by Bosch.
This is what I copy/paste from Wolfgang's ML Page, and the link is http://www.whnet.com/4x4/abs.html#ESP ,you can even go to the web site of Bosch's ESP simulation from the link.
"Does ESP work while the vehicle is braked?
To roughly estimate the ESP effectiveness in this case the ESP requested brake force should be added to the brake force acting at the individual wheel in a vector diagram:
ESP forces when braking
ESP works quite nicely during braking. But what happens during full force braking inside the ABS regime when no additional force can be applied without saturation? ESP will then momentarily reduce the brake force on the other three wheels, just enough to produce a realigning momentum. "
The VSC may not be 100% the same as the ESP, but the clip that drew provided with the BMW shown should be using the Bosch product too. Which when look into the specifications how the two systems work, they are similar.
Hope this will help anyone to make the decision to buy or not to buy the VSC, no offense to anyone.
ehl3 - I have a 2002 bluestone non-limited, V-6, 4WD, and the mid range control appears on the radio as indicated by cliffy1 earlier.
Drove 600 miles last Sunday, so I'm past the 1,000 mile break-in and absolutely love this vehicle! Especially the driver's seat. I have some minor lower back problems (lumbar 5); and ordered the HL's power seat to use the power lumbar support. It works - as I expected - and much better than the manual system in the '87 Camry LE I owned years ago.
However, during the trip, I found even the 02's suffer from the dreaded "glovebox rattle". I thought there were some postings about solutions on this site, but couldn't find it...thought it was here and referred to a dealer bulletin. Perhaps it was only a suggested fix on this site. Anyone remember? Thanks.
My dealer noted that the '02 Camry has a sub-woofer option - perhaps that might solve some of the audio problems on the HL. Has anyone seen aftermarket subs that work with the standard HL audio system?
Well, all I can tell you is that several of us have / are considering the upgrade. However, to my knowledge, no one has received the details as to how much, etc. Like you, I'm curious (gulp!).
I was looking to purchase a 2002 V6 4x2 FWD HL in SoCal. I've been shopping around online as well as stopping by a few dealers. I can't seem to find the car, with the options I want, and I continue to get quotes that are a bit high. Does anyone know of a good dealer to go through in southern california? Thanks for your input.
For those who have the new 2002 HL. Does your HL have the same rear window noise like the 2001 HL's? Which is the air pressure problem do to the lack of ventilation in the rear cargo area.
I've got a 2001 limited and love it. Has anyone else had problems with their CD player? The first one started skipping at about 3K miles, and was tested and replaced by the dealer. The replacement has started skipping now (I'm at about 6K miles). I drive mostly on paved roads. It's the upgraded JBL system. Is there an alternative (higher end) head unit that Toyota/Lexus sells that could be used instead? Thanks for your thoughts.
I know this has been touched on in the past, but never really answered. Just was wondering if anyone upgraded the non-ltd speakers (or ltd) by themselves. If so, how did you remove the door panels?
They're on there real tight and I don't want to damage anything. And if you did upgrade, what speakers did you get?
I just picked up my V6 Limited AWD silver and love it. I ordered VSC and this option indeed appeared on the sticker. But how can I verify that it's actually on the car? The salesman tells me it's "invisible" -- huh?? -- and that I can't turn it off or on. I don't mind the latter, but I would certainly like to verify that I got an option that I paid for!
I have about 2k on my HL. I just moved to Utah and spent no time taking this baby around to the surrounding mountains and hiking. I press the gas on the uphill and maybe the engine noise picks up (I like the noise) If you're just using it around the city I would rec. the 4cyl without hesitation. p.s gas millage (mostly in the mountains avg. about 21mpg), if driving in flat areas then expect better mpg.
If its on your window sticker, its on the car. It would be inconceivable for a factory (as opposed to port or dealer) option to not be there when it is on the window.
The other option is to wait for snow and try spinning out in an empty parking lot.
Comments
I am certain, however, you will appreciate the HL's quality, fit, finish, power and economy.
Happy HL'ing to all.
DETROIT (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp. is recalling more than 41,000 Highlander sport utility vehicles because of a potential problem with their brakes.
The problem, announced by federal regulators in a monthly list of automotive recalls, stems from potential leakage of air into the Highlander's braking system, which can lead to increased stopping distances and heightened risks of a crash.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) said 41,169 of the SUVs from the 2001 model year were included in the recall.
Anyone else in this same situation?
This is the release of the July recall reports, issued 10/4 - Nothing new here. See www.nhtsa.gov, announcements. http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/nhtsa/announce/press/pressdisplay.cfm?year=2001&filename=pr48-01.html
Given the current state of world affairs, I will strongly consider the mpg of a vehicle before I buy. Gas is reasonable now, but what will it be in a year or two?
Hope that the new CR-V shows up soon, I think that it is to be delivered mid Nov. Do wish that Toyota offered a 4 cyl with the limited package, I would pick one up tomorrow if they did.
Olivemarie
Overall I don't think the CRV and HL can be compared to each other - very different vehicles (size, AWD, etc.).
Be sure to look at Consumers Reports writeup on the CRV, and drive one a while and check out the driving position.
The HL is a major upgrade from the CRV. Maybe the new CRV will improve upon previous years. I owned a 97 CRV, first year production and there were lots of problems the first year (as there were the first year of the Honda Odyssey minivan).
I'm glad I bought my 2001 HL and I've enjoyed it with NO problems. Now on 2,600 miles and love driving it.
Hope you enjoy whichever vehicle you select.
One major factor for the HL is the availability of VSC [vehicle skid control], whereas the CRV does not offer this.
Steve
VSC is nice but it goes off whenever you step on the brake. In an emergency situation I always stomp on the brake and ABS takes over. ABS I think prevents skid as well and reduces speed at the same time. I think VSC is more valuable for a hot rod driver who like to zip in and out of traffic, reckless types who doesn't have the good sense to slow down into sharp turns. BTW, even VSC has limitations.
VSCs are hard to come by on Highlander, you have to buy the most expensive Limited MSRPed at $34k or highier. That's 10k more than an 02CRV without it.
The HL is much more quieter and has better acceleration. It is more plush and I feel safer in it, due to its size. It is a joy for long trips, also fine for short errands, but with the CRV, you can zip to and fro with more agility. The HL is just ok for sharp turns and emergency maneuvers.
Again, different vehicles for different purposes.
Totally agree that to get the VSC package is too expensive. Peter
The other time for advantage is icy roads. It compensates for sliding and skidding quite credibly.
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/safety/articles/45992/article.html
Also, this stability control video clip may also be of interest to you: Click here
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
As always, thanks for your help.
Ron
Ron
But my wife wanted the car, so we had them re-do the paperwork and bought it for $31,860, $1750 off the sticker. We got a 2001 FWD 3.0L V6 Limited with leather, VSC, upgrade stereo, side air bags, moonroof, tow prep. Midnight Green with Ivory leather.
I didn't want the 2002 because of the console. We liked the pass-thru to the back seat. So far, everything's fine. It has excellent pickup, great brakes, and a feel of quality and comfort. Looking forward to taking trips in it, and we plan to keep it for 10 years.
Irishcasey - We like the Port-installed-Option ("PIO") leather. In our case, the distributor is SE Toyota and the Port is Jacksonville, FL. Other distributors may have different leather and the factory leather is different yet, though I haven't seen it other than in pictures. The SE PIO leather is perforated, seems to be of decent quality and is also available in grey, which I believe is either limited to certain exterior colors of unavailable from the factory. I suspect that if you want leather with a 4cyl, you'll have to either factory order, as we did, or divert and incoming vehicle and have your dealer instruct the distributor to "add" leather at the port, which can be done, at least at Jax. Doubtful you'll find a 4cyl equipped that way otherwise. Hope that helps.
Kdubs -- the 2002 center console, non-limited, is trimmed with the grey plastic that the rest of the dash is and the covers to the ashtray, and cupholder tray are done in the carbon-fiber look stuff. It looks good, bottom-line. probably would also look decent in the woodgrain look of the Limited as well. A huge improvement, overall, versus the 2001, unless you really wanted the walk-thru ability.
Osoriob - the Step Bars were also Jax/SE Toyota PIO. $425 sticker, $240 invoice. They are stainless steel, tubeular and with rubber step inserts for each door. Realitically, they are mostly for looks (kinda of reinforces the SUV concept, versus those who may say it is a glorified station wagon), though my kids use them and they are helpful for washing the roof and changing the lightbuld in your garage door opener. Downside is that they get dirty and you have to step out to avoid them if you have slacks and/or care.
On a side note, my wife managed to pull a whopping 16mpg on our second tank of gas (V6, 2wd, Miami city traffic).
Cliffy, I think Toyota changed something in the radio for 2002, because after trying everything possible, the base radio we have will not perform the mid-range "trick".
Everything else is great. Dealer still hasn't cashed my check yet, 12 days later. Still getting used to how well the doors seal and having to really push them to get them to close all of the way. My '98 Cobra doesn't have that problem...
As mention by drew the MB's ESP system does work under braking, which is made by Bosch.
This is what I copy/paste from Wolfgang's ML Page, and the link is http://www.whnet.com/4x4/abs.html#ESP ,you can even go to the web site of Bosch's ESP simulation from the link.
"Does ESP work while the vehicle is braked?
To roughly estimate the ESP effectiveness in this case the ESP requested brake force should be added to the brake force acting at the individual wheel in a vector diagram:
ESP forces when braking
ESP works quite nicely during braking. But what happens during full force braking inside the ABS regime when no additional force can be applied without saturation? ESP will then momentarily reduce the brake force on the other three wheels, just enough to produce a realigning momentum. "
The VSC may not be 100% the same as the ESP, but the clip that drew provided with the BMW shown should be using the Bosch product too. Which when look into the specifications how the two systems work, they are similar.
Hope this will help anyone to make the decision to buy or not to buy the VSC, no offense to anyone.
2001 HL Limited V6 AWD with
SR, BE, TO, UQ, VD, LL, EJ, LA, HD, V2 & WL.
Indigo Ink / Ivory Leather
Vehicle Price - $31,600.00
Also purchased 100K warranty for $600.00
So far very pleased with vehicle, but have noticed that you can hear the gas sloshing in the tank when full. Thanks for all of your help!
Drove 600 miles last Sunday, so I'm past the 1,000 mile break-in and absolutely love this vehicle! Especially the driver's seat. I have some minor lower back problems (lumbar 5); and ordered the HL's power seat to use the power lumbar support. It works - as I expected - and much better than the manual system in the '87 Camry LE I owned years ago.
However, during the trip, I found even the 02's suffer from the dreaded "glovebox rattle". I thought there were some postings about solutions on this site, but couldn't find it...thought it was here and referred to a dealer bulletin. Perhaps it was only a suggested fix on this site. Anyone remember? Thanks.
My dealer noted that the '02 Camry has a sub-woofer option - perhaps that might solve some of the audio problems on the HL. Has anyone seen aftermarket subs that work with the standard HL audio system?
alimin
Which is the air pressure problem do to the lack of ventilation in the rear cargo area.
alimin, 2002 bluestone, non-limited, V-6, 4WD.
They're on there real tight and I don't want to damage anything. And if you did upgrade, what speakers did you get?
Thanks in advance!
Gary
'01 2WD NONLtd. HL Millennium Silver
If you're just using it around the city I would rec. the 4cyl without hesitation.
p.s gas millage (mostly in the mountains avg. about 21mpg), if driving in flat areas then expect better mpg.
http://www.tirerack.com
The other option is to wait for snow and try spinning out in an empty parking lot.