Toyota Highlander

petl

dbeck2, where did you hear about the head gasket problem with Toyota's V6? To my knowledge the 4Runner was the only model that had this problem about 10 years ago. The problem has long since been corrected. The Highlander V6 is the same engine that has been used in Camry and RX300 for years. It is one the most dependable and durable engines on the market today.

Some 4cyls. will, after approx. 100,000 miles, show some blue smoke at start-up. This valve seal problem does not affect the motor's performance. And unless it burns oil, it is nothing to be concerned about. Good Luck with whatever vehicle you decide buy. Peter.

skid5

I skid off a major highway with my V-6 4wd highlander (without vsc) on a snow day.
The road had been salted, and I was driving about 60mph. The truck lost control totally when I made a lane change. It run off the road and turned 180 degree and skid for another 100 feet. Luckly there is no damage at all .
Since all the fwd cars before me make the same lane change (we were passing a trialer) didn't skid. My sense is that those fwd drive cars with lower center of gavity might be a safer choice than a 4wd SUV in bad weather.

wwest

Unless the rear wheels of your HL had more traction than the front then you were also driving a FWD vehicle.

Your HL only routes torque to the rear axle if the front wheels lose traction for a fairly brief but sustained period, and even then there are arguments about how much or how little torque the rear wheels can get.

But that doesn't sound like the case here.

Tell me you didn't have the cruise control engaged ?? !!

peterb9

I'm tired of so many people writing to ask everyone what is a fair price for a car that their pricing, with this option or that option. There are thousands of option combinations and prices. The best way is to find out how much the dealer is charging OVER his cost. So whether you'r buying a 4 cylinder unlimited for $25,000 or a loaded Limited for $35,000, the most important thing is the dealer profit over his cost. To ballpark a figure, you are getting a good deal if the dealer profit is UNDER $1000. The actual cost of your optioned vehicle does not matter.

skid5

The cruise control is off.
Your explanation about 4wd makes sense. And the higher center of gavity, larger dimension factors of SUV might "amplify" any skid.
The bottom line is that driving a SUV on highway in bad weather might be more dangerous than driving a fwd car.

ryster

60mph on a snowy day seems a bit excessive. Remember, it takes a while for salt to do its job so there may still be slick patches on the roadways, particularly in passing lanes that do not see as much traffic as the "cruising" lane.

4WD and AWD vehicles still need to be driven somewhat slower in bad weather. And, of course, nothing works well on ice covered roads.

It's just good to know that you, nor anyone else, was hurt when you slid.

raddboy41

Then there is the all important variable known as "The Driver"!

cliffy1

Ummm... perhaps you need to slow down a bit before executing lane changes under these circumstances. You are not driving a tank.

lbags48

dbeck, I'm also in the market for a V-6 HL. While having my Camry serviced last week I asked the service technician whether there have been any problems with the 2001 or 2002 HL. He said other than a recall on the 2001 model for the replacement of the master cylinder cap, no major problems have been reported.

As noted earlier, I think the head gasket problem was with the 4Runner.

roadrunner70

to rfhou, thanks for you input. i suspect that the shift quality we have is about what we can expect, but its disappointing, especially when the edmund's review was of a silky smooth upshifting transmission.

if anyone else has comemnts on shift quality or on being able to feel the engine running at idle in the steering wheel, let us know. thanks.

wwest

skid5:

You've done a really good job of discovering and pointing out the "fly in the ointment" with FWD, AWD and 4WD.

FWD, AWD and 4WD all share a common flaw, they can be easily over-driven in low traction conditions without "notice" to the operator that s/he is operating beyond the "edge" for a vehicle that uses the same set of roadbed contact patches for both "driving" and steering.

Let's say that you were driving on a slippery roadbed wherein your total front tires' traction "quotient" was being completely or mostly allocated to forward "drive". When you turned the "driven" wheels you increased the level of traction you needed becuase you have now added lateral "stress" to the equation.

I'd even bet that the instant you felt any "yaw" you instantly, instinctively, lifted your foot from the throttle. While that action would be totally instinctive for almost all of us, it is absolutely the WRONG thing to do in this circumstance, a FWD or an AWD that is predominantly FWD as is your HL.

The owners manual for my 2001 AWD RX300 (w/VSC/TRAC) the transmission ECU will automatically shift the transmission into the highest gear to eliminate as much engine "braking" as possible in the instance, "coasting". But even if your HL has that feature I doubt if it would have been quick enough in so doing to have prevented your spin-out, and at 60MPH you were likely already in the highest gear.

In a RWD vehicle with the driven wheels' traction quotient all, or mostly used up in this same way, you still have almost all of the front, steering wheels' tarction quotient to rely on if you suddenly need steerage.

And it was likely the weight of your vehicle, and the additional lateral stress, over the other lighter vehicles that led to your spin out and not them.

cmcardle

I've met twice with a salesman at our local dealership, and he has been very helpful, so I'd like to run my soon-to-be-established lease through him if possible. However, the second time I was there, his manager stopped at our table, and started setting the table for a price in the neighborhood of MSRP.

His exact phrase was "Well, this is a limited production model, and the way you have that optioned up, they're hard to find." I'm in Wisconsin, and looking at a Limited AWD.

Does anyone happen to know how the production is split among the 6 lines: base/ SR5/ Limited, 2WD/AWD. We haven't discussed hard numbers yet, but my third visit will be to put in an offer, closer to invoice than MSRP, and I'd love to tell him "Well, 38% of all HLs are configured like this, so if you can't find one....".

TIA

cliffy1

Every region orders them different. Ask to see his "TVO Book" which the dealer is given showing the current production for your region. That is the only way to know the product mix.

zops

I looked at the highlander but the equivalent to the CRV EX with 4V, 4WD, sunroof, privacy glass,
remote entry, aluminum wheels was
about 28K. A big difference (23%) over 22.7K.

The highlander is defintaley bigger looking from the outside and a little more plush in my opinion, but interior volume is very comparable, especially the back seat where the CRV has much more leg room.
Head room about the same and hip room better in Highlander.
Cargo in Highalnder a little bigger.
Overall I found it hard to justify the +5K price difference so I bought the CRV.

svtcobraconv

Sounds like the manager feels you are going to deal with his dealership only. If those were his exact words, that statement would have irritated me to the point of walking out immediately and ceasing any negotiations. Perhaps he thinks some customers would believe "Limited" package name has something to do with the number of units built.

cmcardle

I almost did walk out. When he said that, I stifled a laugh, put my head down for a second, then looked up at the salesman with a look that said "are you kidding me?". I think he got the hint, and took manager-guy with him to "look at the computer". Mr. Manager didn't know the types of questions I had been asking (big thanks to this board), nor had he seen the printouts I had of option selection and invoice pricing. Or the list of 10 other dealerships within a hour's drive.

Salesman came back solo, and said "sorry for the interruption - where were we?". Sales guy is young, so the manager may have him on a short leash. I like sales guy, and apples to apples I try to reward good service, but if his manager intervenes and insists on playing hardball, they'll lose me.

I asked my question on build percentages mainly so I could demonstrate for both of them that you don't treat your customers like morons.

cliffy1

If that is the dealership and salesman you want to buy from (all other things equal), you can accomplish this fairly simply. Get quotes from a couple of other local dealers. See if you can get them in writing by e-mail and make sure you list the exact options on the one you are interested in. Then, take that back to the first dealership and ask them to match the numbers. It should be pretty simple like that.

harmony01

Hi all. First, thanks for all the great information I have gathered here as a lurker for the past few weeks. I started to take the plunge on Friday night, but the dealer just wasn't matching what I've been reading here so I got up and walked out - he threw his pen at the ceiling. So, Saturday I headed out to another dealer and found my dream machine! My awesome green machine. V6, Limited - fully loaded. Although the ride is not as smooth as my '92 Camry, it is an awesome ride. I feel so tall now.

I just finished dusting my Highlander for the evening and put it to bed for the night (okay, it's still brand new to me - 200 miles - cut me some slack).

Thanks for helping me with my purchase!

H

bikerjohn

roadrunner70,
I have about 1200 miles on my V6 AWD Highlander and have not noticed any hard shifts and definitely no vibration in the steering wheel.

When I'm sitting at a traffic light, you wouldn't even know that the car is running.

Not sure if cold weather may play a factor in this? I live south of LA and have yet to drive it in temperatures below 50 degrees.

landscaperjoe

I have owned my 02 fully loaded limited for about 2 months. I'm very pleased with this car. In almost 2000 miles I've averaged almost 18 mpg in mostly around town driving and have had zero problems and have noticed none of the problems that I have seen on this forum. I am one of those very satisfied owners.

jblaze13

I have about 11000 miles and I've always had the shift problem. I never had the engine vibration until the cold weather hit.

dbeck2

During my research I came across some interesting
info. on cartrackers.com (re:sludge)

Please comment.

stever

Engine Sludge? (Discussion Re-Opened)

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

tidester

Way to go! And welcome aboard!

tidester
Host
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pdws

Salliebee - I was confused a bit and tried to get clarification from this board regarding the two different leather options offered on HLs in the SE. The leather offered at MSRP $1070 is factory installed and is perforated. I know because this is what is on my new HL that I picked up last week in SE Florida. The leather offered at MSRP $1429 is supposedly port installed, but is perforated as well.

spektre

I had my leather port installed in the NE region -cost was $1149. It's definitely not perforated, but very nice. One of the main reasons I wanted leather was that it's so much easier to just wipe clean - it strikes me that this wouldn't be the case with perforated leather, as anything spilled would be absorbed through the holes... true?

mikey00

In Florida I would definitely go for the perforated leather. It is cooler to sit on. I had a 2000 RX300 with standard leather and traded it in for a 2001 RX300 SS, which came with perforated leather. I really appreciate the perf in the summer, even in NJ. Never had a problem with spills. I guess the holes are small enough that the liquid doesn't penetrate. It also wipes off just as easy as my previous solid leather.

nofeer

Do you think the HL will get NAV for '03?

bironb

I recently purchased a Highlander 4WD V6 and monitored the vehicle for reported problems here at Edmunds and at the Yahoo HL forum site for the past year. Well, for some reason I missed out on this reported problem, possible Engine Sludge with Toyota’s 3.0 Litre engines.

Found post #4154 in the Edmunds Lexus RX300 forum to be of interest

and also from this site: http://yotarepair.com/breakingnews.html
“Engine Sludge: It's no surprise that the Avalon, Camry and Sienna engines built after 1996 are sludging up. The surprise is that the cause or major contributing factor is now known. For some reason Toyota redesigned the crankcase breathing system on those engines (4 and 6 cylinders). I don't know the reason for the change but you can guess that emission levels played a part. Since the engine can't breathe quick enough the varnish causing gases are left in the crankcase and start to cling to the metal parts. When enough "cling", sludge is formed. In the past it was always assumed that the owner was at fault by not changing the oil, I am now seeing good maintenance customers having the condition, so we are back to the PCV system. Toyota has a habit of ignoring the problem until the public awareness starts to affect sales or new cars. It took then 3+ years of knowing the 3.0 engine head gasket was a problem until they assumed the responsibility. As of late they are just starting to help some customers but it's a hidden secret and not many are getting help. Visit the Sludge Zone for more information.”

Now I don’t know if the above-mentioned vehicles have the same Highlander 3.0 Litre 1MZ-FE V6 engine, and even though only a few have reported an engine sludge problem and it can affect any engine without proper oil service maintenance, I plan on monitoring this one closely in the future. One has to remember that only a very small percentage of Toyota owners participate or report in various automotive forums on the internet. This reported problem could possibly be wide-spread, who knows.

tommyg12

Has anyone noticed that Grey leather is no longer an option for 2002? The Ivory is attractive, but I would hope for at least one more color option.

normp1

After reading all the posts re: sludge I have a simple question .Is the 1MZ-FE V6 an all new motor or is it the same one that was put in the sienna, camry etc.. Should I and others contemplating a purchase be concerned about this problem or has Toyota changed the design ??

wcp

I did a search of the reviews on carreview.com. There are a very high number of reports of the sludge problem from Sienna owners. There is only one report from Avalon owners, and there is no report at all from Lexus ES300 owners. I think the ES300 is assembled in Japan whereas Avalon and Sienna are assembled in US. So it could be the Japanese V6 has a different spec although all three models appear to have the same type of V6 engine. Either that or the Lexus and Avalon owners are a different crowd and change their oil more frequently than Toyota has stated in the manual. Come to think of it, I am going to change my oil every three months or 3000 miles. Just as someone has said, cheap insurance.

bironb

In Canada we only have one recommended maintenance schedule, every 6 months/8,000 km (about 5,000 miles), which is comparable to the US Special Operating Conditions schedule of every 4 months/5,000 miles, although why there is a two-month difference I don’t know. To be on the safe side, I plan on a 3,000 mile oil/filter change and will raise this issue at my first service schedule, although I am sure that the response will be that they never heard of this problem.

1strider

these kind of back & forth games between Mngr and salesman(with you in the middle) are exactly why i don,t deal with them anymore. the last 2 cars i've bought, i called the dealership and asked the sales mngr if he would sell for a couple hundred over invoice. if he wouldn't, i called another. the Highlander is new, but you should find one willing.i bought a car several years ago where i had to talk to the fleet mngr and explained that i was a member of a local credit union as well as AAA.

tbuchta

Since it appears that some folks are taking the "sludge" groups seriously, I'll share an opinion.

I followed the links provided including that of the person claiming to be an ex-toyota mechanic. From the charges and counter-charges I could not determine for myself whether this was real or a fabrication. There are charges that people are duplicating and fabricating stories, no way to know who to believe...Given that I'll rely on the following until some of the folks who have a history of posting here actually come up with a problem:

1. I have never heard in my 52 years of an engine going bad because of sludge, Toyota or not, I have always changed my own, and it is very easy to see when oil goes from clear, to brown (change it), to dark brown/black. That usually means changing every 3 to 4 thousand miles.

2. I have read over the years (numerous consumer and industry magazines) that the Toyota/Lexus 3 liter 6's is one of the best v6's made....

3. Objective data, collected from car buyers, like Consumer Reports, JD Power consistently rate Toyotas as the most reliable vehicles made. This doesnt mean that they cant have problems, it just means that they have a lot fewer problems than other vehicles, certainly the domestic ones.

I change my own oil after 3 to 4 thousand miles, I have a Camry with 225 thousand miles on it, and like I said, I'll wait until some of the regulars on this group verify there is a problem before I take the "sludge" postings seriously.

paisan

****Details*****

When: Saturday Jan 19
Where: Pine Barrens (Lebanon State Forest, NJ)
Meet: Intersection of Rte 70 and 72 near Whiting, NJ
Time: 10:45-11am
Who: AWD/4wd Vehicles (no 2wd please)
What: Off-road Trail Ride through the barrens, will be fun for all, we encourage Subarus, Rav4s, CRVs, Isuzus, Highlanders, 4-runners, Santa Fe, Explorers, etc.

****Details****

regularguy

Here's the story: My wife traded her old Previa minivan for a sporty little sedan last year, and we're missing the hauling capability. I graciously offered to buy a new vehicle to replace my aging Accord. Highlander seemed like the way to go (great engine; great reliability; plenty of room). But I figured to get the 2WD with skid control, since we hardly ever get snow around here and I don't plan to go off-road. I really like the Limited with leather. That gets things to around $30,500 (8% over invoice, with destination).
In this morning's paper, I see an ad for a Toyota place that says "All Sienna XLEs, $1,000 under invoice". Whoa! That's $26,400, equipped the exact same way as the luxed-out Highlander I'm envisioning! OK, a minivan has a certain stigma (and my 16-year-old son would hate to be seen driving it), but aren't the two vehicles essentially the same under the skin?
Help me out here. I'm actually considering buying a Sienna over a Highlander.

regularguy

That $30,500 figure I quote on the 2WD Highlander Ltd with skid control and leather is probably a good bit low, too. I was going by the Edmund's calculator, going with exactly the way I wanted it. The available vehicles would no doubt add additional things I don't want to get it up another couple of grand.

Rickster

Anyone have any experience with aftermarket cargo liners?

I am loving my HL Limited, but its only been a few weeks and already the ivory mats are taking a beating.

Help!

brupop

We got the CargoLogic mat 3 months ago. It has stood up to Christmas wreath delivery, 3 trips to the mountains(snowy boots and stuff), the usual grocery getting, and my work(sample cases) with no signs of wear. It will contain spills and can be hosed-off. The moveable cargo blocks are great for keeping things in place.
We bought ours from
GregB

svtcobraconv

Just a few thoughts

1. Never buy anything you don't REALLY want, even if it costs less. (I'm 48, and happen to agree 100% with your son.)

2. Do you need the additional space of the Sienna, or is the HL actually sufficient for your needs?

3. Make sure you are comparing apples to apples when it comes to price, but remember these are two different vehicles designed for different purposes. Never base a price on a newspaper add. Find a Sienna you would consider, and get the bottom line. Do the same for the HL you want. Possibly the price difference won't be as great as you suspect.

Good Luck. (I know you are looking for justification for going with the Highlander!)

dniehus

8% over invoice! You need to shop around or negotiate better. Most folks seem to be buying these days for $500-1000 over invoice, or roughly 3% over invoice. That certainly represents a fair profit to the dealer (in addition to holdback, etc.) Once you get a more realistic cost estimate for the HL, the sticker shock should be much less.

Good luck.

Don

ranell

Simple solution. Go drive them both, one directly after the other. You'll know imediately, which you prefer. Good Luck!

regularguy

I test-drove the Sienna a year ago when we were getting rid of the Previa and my wife was considering another van. Not bad at all!
Drove the Highlander a couple weeks ago, and the salesman quoted 8% over invoice as his openning salvo... just like the dealer advertising Sienna for $1,000 under invoice in their ad (and, yeah, I take newspaper ads with a grain of salt).

xcarnut

I was in same delimma about 6-7 months back. We considered Sienna for its utlitarian values, etc. But we couldn't get over the mini-van stigma however, because of price we decided Sienna was the way to go. We walk in to the dealer with plans to go home with the perfectly optioned Sienna for us, which I had been talking with the sales rep.
When negotiating came we were discussing both but had our heart on the HL. Salesrep recommended don't spend all that cash for something your heart doesn't truly desire unless there is an absolute need to have the utilitarian need of 7 passenger, etc. In our case we didn't need it but was nice to have the extra speace for that once in a 6 month need for extra space.
After spending nearly all night negotiating we walked away with HL and paid $700 over invoice. Basically if the need is not there negotiate the price and spending a little more will get you what you want. Shop around. Do what some of the other post recommend by sending email blast.
Good luck in your decision and post yor decision.

mcmatt

I am familiar with most invoice items like holdback, PIO holdback, etc., but I have seen a couple of new ones to me.

What is M.A.F. of about 0.5% of base MSRP?

What is "1% finance reserve"?

Any enlightenment will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Matt

tfuzz

My wife drives a '00 Sienna. I drive a '01 HL. Both are excellent vehicles. For long highway cruises with the family, 2 dogs, camping gear, etc., the Sienna wins. It holds its course slightly better (maybe because HL is AWD--FWD may be different--I am NOT saying the HL is bad, just that the Sienna is a little better). A smidge better safety rating on the Sienna, too--I get an insurance discount, but not on the HL. Both have the V6. Sienna gas mileage over 50,100 miles is 22.371. HL (AWD)gas mileage over 12,700 is 19.540. Both are roughly equal in comfort for driver and passenger. The center row captains chairs in the Sienna are very nice. We sometimes drive overnight, trading off drivers, and I find the center row chairs more comfortable than the front seats of either (or the rear seat in the HL). Quietness is about a tossup, but the Sienna does have a few clunks and rattles--not bad, though. The "feel" and "fun factor" of the HL are a little better, IMHO.

Looks? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Which one floats your boat? I hardly ever have anyone come up and ask what kind of car the Sienna is, or stare at it as we drive by. That happens all the time, though, with the HL.

Personally, I like driving the HL around town, to work, and on solo 1-day trips. But, with lots (or big) stuff to haul, taking the family, etc., the Sienna works better. The Sienna is probably a little more similar to the Previa than the HL is.

If you have any specific questions about the differences between the two vehicles I'd be glad to try to answer them. Incidentally, we bought the Sienna after a series of 3 Chrysler minivans, all of which were fine, reliable vehicles for us. Traded in a Subaru Forester for the HL--it was also a very fine car.

My suggestion: see if you can rent a Sienna and a HL for a day each, and go for long rides. If you are really not sure which way to go, that would be money well spent.

tccmn1

I am leaning towards the 4 cylinder HL. 4X2. Basically, because of costs and gas mileage. I have test driven both sizes. While the 6 is wonderful, the 4 seems adequate & quite. The local dealers are telling me that you can't get a 4 with the TO package...or it's virtually non-existent for them to get. They say they can add a "TO" type of package at the dealer for the same price as the option. I asked what does this get me; they say it will allow me to tow 3K lbs. vs. 2K lbs without it = trailer hitch and wiring. I thought the TO added a better radiator, battery, etc.for $360. This seems very strange and expensive for not much stock AND how does this gain me 1K of towing capacity? I really am getting confused by sales people who seem to be full of mis-communication (or something else) and lack knowledge on their vehicles! I seem to know more about them from reading the internet than they do working the vehicles!! They also say I won't be able to get a 4 with the VSC option! Anyone able to clarify this stuff for me?
I've talked with 2 larger Toy dealers in the Twin Cities, MN. area.

xcarnut

Her is what the tow package includes to the 4 and 6 cyl.: -- upgraded radiator, transmission oil cooler, 130-amp alternator and trailer prewiring; 4-cylinder models add: 3,000-lb. towing capacity, engine oil cooler and 120-watt fan coupling; V6 models add: 3,500-lb. towing capacity, 80-watt fan coupling and power steering oil cooler

llofgren

See my post #278 under "How Much Did You Pay" in the Toy Highlander Club here on Edmunds. Have you tried Ross at Maplewood Toyota? I am a little skeptical of their being able to add on the TO option at the dealer.......
Cliffy has made reference to the "TVO Book" at the dealerships to see what the local inventory is. Maybe if you looked at that you could see if they have a 4 with VSC and TO.
I have found Ross very easy to work with and he seems willing to do some legwork for you. e-mail me if you would like details.