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Land Rover Discovery and Discovery II



  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    The keys are standard alpine keys. The keys are available through SPX Kent-Moore, as are all Land Rover service tools.
  • expert1expert1 Posts: 133
    The radio installer here in the States says that Alpine has never used keys in their head units. I called Alpine US and they said this is a OEM Alpine head made in Japan. They supplied me with a part number of SMD-4091 and I checked your SPX web site, but to no avail. Help, I need a little more information where to obtain these elusive removal keys.
  • kwamedogkwamedog Posts: 35
    I am so close but am worried that I am not getting the best deal based on some of the posts. I am looking at a 98 LE wirh 24,000 miles. It is immaculate and has been well taken care of (I reviewed the service records). Only 24,000 miles on it and soooo clean and white. Still has 1 year of warranty and is certified so we get an additional 1 year 12,000 miles. The dealer wanted $25,000. I told him that I would pay $24,000 but expected him to throw in the rubber type mats to include the cargo area, a brush bar and the covers for the rear lights. They were fine with all of this until I tried to push even harder to get them below $24,000. They would not even budge! Anyway, the price seems to be consistent with Kelly Blue Book which states that retail is around $24,400. What do all you Rover specialists think about this? Also, I am looking to buy an extended warranty due to what I have read on this thread. I am looking at a 3rd party warranty as they are less pricey and cover for a longer period of time. Anybody have any thoughts on this? The 3rd party warranty will cover us for 6 years and up to 100,000 on the odometer.
  • kwamedogkwamedog Posts: 35
    The LE that we have been mulling over has been in the shop for gaskets and valves. It has also been in because the dome light would not shut off and the vanity mirror was on a constant dim. Due to the fact that it is a 98 this does not seem so bad.
  • hatton3hatton3 Posts: 13
    Re post 928 - my advice would be to take the vehicle with 18" alloys and road tyres. These wheels really do suit the vehicle but you are right that off road they are pants. The reduced rubber in the side wall makes rock crawling very harsh and you need to take it slow to not damage the wheel. However the best bet would be to buy a set of cheap steel wheels and have them fitted with decent off road tyres - a cheap set of remould mud terrains or SAT's would be great. In the UK there are mail order dealers supply 4 wheels and fitted off road tyres for about £300 ($450) and I guess similar deals must be available in US. Do be careful that you order wheels for a Series II as the stud pattern is different from nearly every earlier land rover product where all wheels were pretty much interchangeable.

    The offroad wheels and tyres will make the offroad abilities of the Disco pretty much unbeatable and the on road wheels and tyres will make it look and handle great on the road.

  • kwamedogkwamedog Posts: 35
    Paid $24,000 for a white immaculate 98 LE with only 24,000 miles on her. The dealer threw in a brush guard and the plastic mats throughout. We have one year and too many miles left on the original warranty and then an additional 12 month, 12 thousand miles as it is certified. We will be picking her up tomorrow at 10 am Denver time! I have always wanted one and now we will have one (even if the wife will be the primary driver). Oh, and can anyone tell me if this certification program is typical (the additional warranty). I am assuming that Land Rover was getting sick of hearing reliability complaints and threw the consumer a bone. I can only say that I bit.
  • agh15agh15 Posts: 90
    Do you know when land rover will redesign the discovery. I heard that discovery along with freelander and the new model for 2006 model year called the baby range rover would have jaguar engines.
  • shidashida Posts: 1
    I just took delivery of a 2001 Discovery II, and I can't get the transfer gear to shift. It seems to be frozen in High. Has anyone else had this problem? If so, what did you do?
  • nanuqnanuq Posts: 765
    It's a bit tricky to shift hi/lo range. The best way I've found is to have your truck *barely* rolling, as in slower than walking speed. Then put the auto trans in "N" and shift hi to lo range. Drop it back into gear ("D") and you're off.

    BE CAREFUL, do not attempt this when you're moving quickly or under drivetrain load. I tend to engage lo range before I get to an obstacle... it may be impossible to do so once you're in a precarious position.

    Reverse this procedure to select hi range... get rolling a little, put it in "N" and then select hi range... drop her back into "D" and go.

    Note: there is a neutral in the transfer case as well... I'm talking about "N" in the auto transmission.

    Note also, it's going to be VERY abrupt when in lo range... shifting will be immediate, and you'll have more trouble holding her with the brakes. Be gentle until you get the hang of it.

    Best regards, -Bob
  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    It can be hard to shift at a stand still. If you put the trans in D then back to neutral it should shift. The preferred way to shift it is with the vehicle rolling under 5 mph, put in neutral then shift the T-box.
  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    I'm afraid there isn't much info on future products available at this time.
  • bakcabakca Posts: 33
    Here in CA we have these environmentally friendly but cumbersome vapor recovery hoses. I have been having trouble with them. They are continually shutting off (every couple of gallons). If I twist it and hold it just so it won't shut off. There must be a way to not hand hold it for the whole fill up. Has anyone else had this problem. Yeah, it is trivial... but annoying.
  • I was told its because they are square cut gears and need to be exactly aligned. These hark back to the old LR's in the 60's which were, as I remember, just about as hard to get into low range (the Yellow button on the floor!) I usually just rock back and forth between D & N & R and it pops right in.

    Happy Rovering !
  • The oil light in my '99 DI just started coming on intermittantly, though the dip stick shows full. The light comes on full when the revs are higher and flickers/goes off at lower RPMs. I plan to bring it in for a check-up, but does anyone have experience/thoughts on this? Thanks.
  • nanuqnanuq Posts: 765
    My advice is to not drive it until you sort this problem, it can cause spectacular damage quickly.

    You may have a bad sender, your pickup tube in the sump may be partly obstructed, the bolts attaching the pickup tube to the block may have fallen loose, the oil pump may have too large clearances, or the oil pump seal may be bad. If it flickers at low RPM but comes on full at high, that makes me think of cavitation in the pump due to inadequate oil supply at the sump.

    Good luck, -Bob
  • kwamedogkwamedog Posts: 35
    We purchased a 98 LE with 24,000 miles on it last Saturday. We did so prior to the certification process with the understanding that the dealer would fix any problems. Since they were scheduled to put on the brush bar on Monday we figured we would take her home for the weekend and then return her for both the brush bar and the certification. Of course that was the worst thing that we could do because in two days we became super attached and did not want to give her back for even a day. Well, needless to say, we have not driven her since we left her. During certification they found a gasket and/or seal problem. The very same problem Nanuq has been talking about on this board for months (if not years). They are telling us that she has dripped all over herself and that they have to remove the transmission and replace numerous parts (at least its their dime). Anyway, even though we still have one year on the original warranty (and lots of miles) and we get an additional year with certification I am seriously considering buying a third party extended warranty. Land Rover is way over priced and the warranty starts from the day that the original owner purchased the vehicle. Warranty (through Edmunds) offers a much better deal. Anyway, can somebody tell me if this gasket and seal thing will be an ongoing problem? Also, what does it cost to fix this (at the dealer) if you are not under warranty? Either way we love her but just need to know so that we could make our decision on the extended warranty. We bought the vehicle and plan/hope to have her for at least five years.
  • nanuqnanuq Posts: 765
    I'm not sure *which* seal may be leaking... which explains the meaning behind the old Rover adage, "If it's not leaking, it's empty". JUST KIDDING!!! They're really not leakers any more, I just had to say that.

    You might have a leaking rear main seal, which would explain pulling the tranny. I thought mine was doing the same, but it turned out the cork valve cover gaskets were leaking down the back of the block, looking JUST LIKE a leaking rear main seal, from underneath. Replacement valve cover gaskets are on the TSB list, and I've got 'em now.

    Rovers: it's a love/hate thing. You'll adore her when she purrs but you'll cuss her when she gets cranky. It's just the nature of the beast. But one good thing... once fixed, these trucks tend to STAY fixed. Get her "over the hump", get all the quirks sorted, and you'll drive her for a long time. Perhaps the original owner couldn't stomache it... that's how my truck was, and I'm glad for it now.

    Maybe I'm lucky (or Lord Lucas doesn't care for the cold) but I've had zero trouble since 3 days after my warranty expired... expired from overwork, I must add. Not quite every part on my truck was replaced under warranty, but certainly THOUSANDS of dollars worth. And she's stayed fixed. Now, I don't personally think an extended warranty is worth it. Back then, I did. I figure I've got another 3 years before big expensive things start to grow old... alternator, power steering pump, fuel pump, O2 sensors, brake rotors. In those 3 years I'll save enough on warranty fees to pay for the parts outright.

    Just my two sense (grin) -Bob
  • kwamedogkwamedog Posts: 35
    As a matter of fact it was a rear main seal. As for the warranty, it sounds like you do alot of your own work. I myself know nothing about mecahnics, all I know is that I love this truck. Therefore, I am thinking that an extended warranty may be good for me. It is only $2,000 to get protection for 7 years (from the purchase date on the warranty) or 100,000 on the odometer (whatever comes first). Do you think (and it sounds like you do) that I will spend more than $2,000 in repairs at my local dealer over the course of the next seven years? I have read all of the posts on this board and value your opinion. Oh, and it is good to know that the problems are not usually reoccuring.


  • nanuqnanuq Posts: 765
    It's hard to say. Does the warranty cover *everything* or just internally lubricated parts? Is it wear and tear or just failures?

    If it covers everything including wear and tear then by all means get it. A factory alternator plus a couple hours labor will eat up 1/4 of that amount. Toss in an ABS pump or power steering pump and a couple more hours labor... *poof* you've paid for the warranty.

    If it only covers failures, then knowing that fixes tend to stay fixed... you're betting it will break and they're betting it won't. I guess it IS a Rover... (grin)

    Yep you better buy it. Hope this is good advice! Just get IN WRITING exactly what's covered, and where.

  • kbowenkbowen Posts: 58
    Well here goes. Took possession ao a new 2001 DII SE7 with ACE last month. Before, driving a 1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited. I have taken the JGC offroad numerous times, including rock crawling in Silverton, CO., New Mexico, Moab, Ut area, Big Ben in Texas and so on. Although it may be a bit too premature to make any difinitive comparisons, particularly since I haven't had the D offroad yet, I thought many of you would like my early impressions.

    Ride: The D is a bit stiffer but certainly not unpleasantly so. There is a noticeable difference, at least with ACE, as to cornering. The J leans and sways, whereas the D is much more stable and precise. The J seems to have a slightly tighter turning circle.

    Driver Position: D far superior; high seating position for good all around visibility, except view to right rear a bit obstructed by the right rear head restraint. You can cure this by raising or removing it.

    Looks: Strictly personal.

    Durability: Too early to tell as for the D but so far no problems. The J was a pain in the [non-permissible content removed]. Gas gauge, sunroof, CV joints (see offroad below), alignment that had to be specially modified, AC cooling problems, ABS system, etc. Service was even worse. Once when it died around town and had to be towed, I was told the gas gauge was defective showing 1/4 of a tank when it was actually empty. The part had to be placed on back order because this was a problem across the country and I was told they put 5 gallons of gas in it and I should fill up asap and monitor the gauge. I got exactly 5 blocks down the road and ran out of gas; it was more like they put 5 cents worth in it. See below for more dealer horror tales.

    Radio/sound system; D with it's 200Ws, 12 speakers, etc wins hands down. The J Premium Sound System is no comparison.

    Cup holders: Got to give this one to J. Still haven't found a suitable cup for the D front holders that doesn't knock against the AC controls either turning it off or putting it on economy. And this includes cups made for the D from British Atlantic.

    Power/Acceleration: Not much difference. The J has the inline 6 and both are sufficient. I get tired of these magazine reviews saying the D is under powered. The acceleration is quick enough and I don't get left at the lights.

    Gas Mileage: Whoa! 10-12, all premium, with the new D. J is 16-18 regular.

    Ergonomics: Again, these mag guys write about poor ergonomics. I disagree. I have no problems finding any of the controls and am comfortable with them once learned. Same for the J.

    Brakes: The J is a bit sluggish with a soft petal feel. The D is more crisp and stopping distances seem shorter and more controlled, although I haven't compared the actual specs.

    Offroad: NOW we get to the meat of the matter and the reason I no longer own a Jeep. Canyonlands, UT has a pretty mean trail called Elephant Hill, which is not just a simple hill, but a trail with severe switchbacks, stair-like rock formations and the like. It is located about 40 miles from Moab. When I got there, I discovered the linkage to the transfer case was jammed and the J got stuck in neutral. I had to get under it and free up the linkage to get back into high drive. Drove back to Moab and a local mechanic fixed it. Still had enough time so drove back to Elephant Hill and traveled to our overnight campsite. Next day, almost down when this horrible grinding noise began to come from the front end. Checked and saw the front drive shaft CV joint was done in. Drove back to Moab at a top speed of 15mph (otherwise the vehicle would shake violently) on a 2 lane hwy with a posted limit of 70mph. Ask me how many 18 wheelers came close to running me over. The same Moab mechanic removed the front drive shaft and I had to detour using 2 wheel drive to Durango, CO. for repairs. FOUR, that's FOUR, days folks waiting for the part. Jeep was nice enough, though, to pay for a rental Wrangler so I could offroad in Silverton.

    Next Year back at Canyonlands for the 100 mile canyon rim trail. NOT a hard trail. Camped out overnight around the 50 mile mark and don't you know it ascending a steep slope the next morning, the CV joint blew out again and I've got to go back out the way I came in because I can't get up the damn hill without 4 wheel drive, and that wasn't easy. Another trip back to Moab for removal of the front drive shaft again and the old detour to Durango. (I make this trip from New Orleans by the way.) Both the Moab mechanic and jeep service manager tell me the CV joints have not been holding up and have been fracturing due to pure stress; that a U-joint (as is in the D)would be preferable. I was told to contact my dealership when I got back.

    I did get back and my dealership said they couldn't help and told me to call Chrysler directly. They were ticked the dealership wouldn't do their job and sent me to another dealer who gave me everything but a "rubber hose" police like interrogation. Luckily I videotaped the trip and was able to show no misuse of the vehicle. Chrysler promised they were developing a "beefed up" joint because of what appeared to be a widespread problem, but later said it was for the V-8's only. For me, they said the problem was that the front drive shaft apparently had not been adjusted to length properly by the factory and during replacement of the original shaft at the Durngo dealership. They wanted to check the third one that had been put in and guess what, it too was too long. Because it

    was frozen in position, it too was removed and replaced with promises that the problem would not happen again. Well, to make this long story shorter, my next vacation was to Florida where the only offroading I did was the beaches of Daytona. It's no fun going offroad if you're not relatively certain your horse will get you back.

    As for the D's offroad capability I can only say it will be a lot of fun to find out, and that it certainly gives the impression of being capable.

    OVERALL: If you want a great set of cup holders, go with the J. Otherwise, spend a few extra dollars on the gas and get what appears to be a FAR SUPERIOR vehicle on and off the road. So far this "horse" is great.
  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    the cupholder in the dash is a PITA, but did you install the cupholders that should have been in the cubby box for mounting on the console? If you didn't get them you should have. On the 2002 model they did away with the dash mount and came up with an improved design for the console mount. These will fit the earlier models, but probably won't be available for a couple of months.
  • kwamedogkwamedog Posts: 35
    Ok, I read every post on this board before purchasing my 98 Discovery LE last Saturday. We purchased it before they did the certification because she looked so clean had been serviced at every interval and only had 24,000 miles on her. I even looked at all of the service records which showed the only previous problem being a dome light that would not turn off. Needless to say the thing has been in the shop for 5 of the past 6 days. I knew that I was purchasing a problem child but this is rediculous. During the certification they found a rear main seal leak which took two days to repair (they also told me that they went over her with a fine tooth comb). We finally brought her home tonight and had her for a total of 20 minutes (just enough time to bring her to a frinds house to show her off for the first time) when the check engine light came on. We brought her back to the dealer who proceeded to tell us that there are 250 different reasons that check engine light can come on and that it is normal. The service manager explained that she has a 96 LE (that she purchased new) that has had the check engine light come on no less than 100 times -- is this true or is this a line of crap? She also told me that I should not worry unless the check engine light flashes, thats how I'll know it is a serious problem -- Is this another line of crap because I have never heard of such a thing. To make matters even more interesting I have only given them half of the money for the car (through Land Rover financing) with the other half coming in cash on the condition that it passes muster during certification. I guess that it passed certification fairly well (based on info from nanuq I would expect to find the seal leak in the Rover) its the 20 minutes after the certification that did not go as planned. I feel like I am certainly being initiated into the club! My question is would I be better off getting out of the 98 and leasing a 2001 or are my experiences just typical of owning a Rover. Fortunatly we have a lot of warranty left and will be purchasing an extended warranty if we ever take full ownership of the truck. There is no doubt (after driving it for one day) that my wife andI want a Disco but did we make a mistake by purchasing a 98? Ah, it is so nice to vent. Anyway, I don't think that the dealer would even let us out of this one if we wanted to -- then again we still have some of there money. If somebody who has Disco experience could advise it would be appreciated. Oh and by the way, we are still waiting to hear why the check engine light did go on.
  • waskowasko Posts: 103
    Tincup and all:

    Is there an xplan discount on extended warranties? Would love to do 10 years/100,000 miles on my upcoming DII purchase.

    I almost feel guilty about getting rid of the '96 DI. Almost :) Test driving the DIIs, listening to the new stereo system, feeling the tighter cornering and better acceleration, my guilt subsides rather quickly.

    They're doing 3.9% financing until 8/31. I'm out of town on business until 8/28. I'm filling out the paperwork next week, have asked my friend for the PIN #, and have finalized the purchasing criteria (except for extended warranty).

    As if 3+ years with the DI weren't enough, I'm getting ready to dive head first into the new Rover experience. Just hope there is water in the pool :)

    Thanks - wasko
  • waskowasko Posts: 103

    Man, that is a tough one. I experienced lots of pain with my '96 between 30,000 and 55,000 miles but it's been trouble-free up to the current 78,000 miles. Just little stuff lately (brakes, pads, calipers, and brake lines due to MI salty roads).

    The main reason I'm getting rid of the '96 is because it was a midwest truck. I'm ready to own a Rover for a very long time and want to be sure it's solid. My current one had heavy rust on the brake lines, has quite a bit of surface rust on the frame, rear door hinges (paint has flaked off), A-pillars, and other areas. If the car hadn't gone through all of the salty road winters, I'd be keeping it.

    As for your '98, I'm sitting right smack on the fence-post on that one. Part of me says to stick with it and you'll get her over the hump (with pain and aggravation). Another part of me says that if the financial deal isn't done, step back and look at leasing. Could be a way to get into a slightly newer vehicle with potentially fewer problems.

    Best of luck regardless - let us know how it goes.

    Thanks, wasko
  • nanuqnanuq Posts: 765
    I've never heard of it flashing. That sort of makes me nervous to hear a service manager mention it. I may be wrong but...

    There are indeed many reasons it can come on, most of which are ignorable (is that a word?) Since yours was just in for major repair it could be the O2 sensors (they were unhooked to drop the Y-pipe) or it could be the road speed sensor (also lives down there) or it could be water in the fuel causing a misfire. When mine was "new" I was so aggravated and gunshy from all the BS that I was ready to throw in the towel for a check engine and poor idle... and it was nothing more than a bad tank of fuel. But at that point you're not sure which way is up any more!

    My gut feeling is, you're seeing small problems due to the major repair. Maybe they were in a hurry reassembling her, maybe they banged a sensor, maybe... whatever. If they're good for their word then they'll make it right. If they don't... then I'd get real serious real quick.

    You're officially *almost* initiated... but it doesn't quite hurt enough yet. Now then, ask yourself if you're willing to go thru this until the warranty expires? Worst case, you will. Best case, you'll have no more trouble. It's something only you can answer, based on your ability to just let things slide (most "problems" are really not problems) vs. being too meticulous and going nuts from the headaches.

    Wasko is right... as always. If you want less aggravation go with the newer vehicle and lease it. If you want to chance it, get this crop of trouble harvested and see what comes next. You may be pleasantly surprised... I was.

    But Wasko IS wrong about one thing... the Series I is lots better than the Series II (ducking and grinning).

    Hope this helps, -Bob
  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    The service manager is right about the number of reasons a check engine light can come on. It can be as simple a problem as the gas cap being loose. You can thank the EPA for instituting OBDII diagnostics. Almost all check engine light occurences are emission related and do not indicate a critical failure. The retailer should be able to pull diagnostic codes using their Testbook or any scan tool. If the light is not flashing it is safe to drive the vehicle.
  • buroskyburosky Posts: 90
    FWIW, I've been reading postings on this board for a while now. So far, it seems there hasn't much problems coming up with the DIIs. It appears that most of the "problem children" are 99s and older (DIs). This was the reason why I opted to go with a 2001 DII. It did clean up my bank account nicely but so far I haven't really had any real problem. I have taken it to the dealer for service a few times but mostly for very minor stuff. Aside from the cosmetic stuff that I wanted fixed and some loose (non-mechanical) parts that had to be tightened up, the only other thing I had them check is a pink fluid that leaked from underneath. Since then it's been behaving. Of course it makes a lot of noises I haven't heard from my previous cars before (which makes my wife extremely paranoid) but I guess those are just normal for the rovers. I have had it for 3 months now. Although my wife is the primary driver, I try to get it every chance I get. With the gas prices going down a little bit here in CA, it sure makes it more affordable to drive even for commuting to work. My wife has no problem with that. Her work is only less than 5 miles of side streets away from home. I just wish gas mileage was better on this truck so I can use it more often including commuting to work.

    If you have the chance to go with the 2001 DII, I'd say go for it. All the aggravation you're getting from your 98 might get you fed up with rovers. No matter how much you love the truck, that could change if it continues to be a thorn for you. As you said, the other half of the money is contingent upon the truck passing certification. I feel it shouldn't get certified if it has that much problems. Isn't certification intended to put the car in a like "new condition"? As for the "crap" about the check engine light, have them put their comments/observations on the service order. At least if something happens down the road that is related to that, you have documentation. That's what I did when I asked them to check clicking sounds coming from my brake pedal everytime I start the truck and was told it was due to the ABS adjusting itself. I had them write what they told me in the service order. If in case that clicking sound was a sign of an impending repair, I can easily say I had it checked and was told it was normal.

    Good Luck!
  • waskowasko Posts: 103

    You know, making the decision to goto a DII has been very difficult! At times, I feel like I'm betraying my current vehicle. That isn't natural, but it's the feelings owning a Rover can bring out :)

    Speaking of that, did you change ISPs? I can't find the old "Love is a LandRover" poem anymore. People that don't understand these feelings need to read that - it's great!

    If there were a few less problems on the DI throughout it's history, I'd be keeping it for the long run. But the early engine problems (2.5 years ago - posted in detail on the forum here), the "Michigan Suntan" (i.e. RUST), and the right rear sag (even after new shocks and springs all around) create just enough doubt on long-term ownership.

    Trust me, I've labored with this for months. But I just got a bonus at work and the timing is right.

    So, before 8/31, I too will be clearing the bank account to go with the Epsom Green, Bahama Beige successor to the current DI. Colors will stay the same as the DI - some things never change :)

    Good weekend to all, wasko
  • kwamedogkwamedog Posts: 35
    Ok, Bob (Nanuq) was right yet again. The check engine light was simply a loose connection to the O2 sensor (at least that is how it was explained to me). We brought it back last night at 8 p.m. and had it by 9:30 a.m. the next morning. I brought up the idea of the 2001 to my wife last night and got a resounding "NO WAY." Not because of money mind you but because (now get this) she "wants her white Rover." In other words she only drove the car for a day and a half and already she is attached. Anyway, I have to say that the dealership has been great (of course I have not given them all of their money yet -- will do that on Tues. if all continues to go well). They have gone above and beyond in terms of making the car brand new. The lot guy heard a clicking sound in the driver side seatbelt when he went to fill her with gas after certification, told the service manager who ordered a whole new seat belt. The right bin in the back of the truck has a few minor scratches on it so they ordered two brand new bins. A clip to one of the front sunshades was cracked so they replaced both front sun shades. Right down to the guy who sold me the vehicle I would reccomend Land Rover Denver South. I could not believe that when I brought it back at 8 p.m. last night that there were 4 technicians still on the job (may be because they have alot of jobs to do). I also can't believe that they had the car ready for us (and cleaned) by 9:30 this morning. Despite our little problems we love the car and it seems as if the dealership is willing to satnd behind her.Unlike Jeep and our other car (a Jeep Cherokee). The one thing that we are learning though is that despite the fact that we still have 2 years worth of warranty left we will be needing an extended warranty for sure. Next week I will be purchasing a 6 year 100,000 mile warranty from the Edmunds affiliate. It is a great deal especially since the six years begin from the date that you actually buy the warranty. Well guys, here we go -- looks like we are staying with the 98. The good news is that the wife said that when we get rid of the Jeep (in two years or so) that she will part with her beloved "white Rover" (yipeee I'll inherit it) so that we could lease a new one. I never thought my wife would love a car so much I mean to the point that we may become a two rover family (ok, I know I'm jumping the gun we first have to see what this one does to us).

    Brett in Denver
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