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Comments
Wheels? I thought about brake clearance, too. I think the rotors are indeed bigger, but was the change enough that the 15"s will not fit at all? Try them first.
Seats? Do you like RS or WRX seats? Maybe try those, you can find those used on Nabisco or E-bay. Lucien put a set in his Legacy GT.
I wonder the if the WRX's side air bags would plug in and still work, dunno.
-juice
Well at least another use for PB other than milk shakes.
1) The Forester XT's were automatics.
2) The STIs were manuals.
3) The STIs had the $3000 dealer mark-up.
Len
Len
I have also found Zymol Finishing Spray, which I used over the AIO. Again, wipe on, wipe off. The Zymol spray is carnuba based, very light. I've also had decent results with RainX Fast Wax. It's a bit thicker than the Zymol and is not carnuba based. Both easy enough to apply after washing/drying.
-Brian
It's an automatic with cloth interior and the following options: Bumper cover/cargo tray/splash guard pkg; armrest extension (why is this not standard?); rubber floor mats; custom tailpipe cover; tweeter kit; upgraded speakers; subwoofer. (I was frustrated that I could not find the factory-installed premium audio package anywhere in the color I wanted; salesman I bought from says they never order them as a package because no one wants to pay for it. I had the upgraded speakers and subwoofer installed separately by the dealer -- at extra cost, of course.)
With all options installed, total came to $24.3k -- not a great deal, but a pretty good one, I think.
We wasted no time loading it up and spattering it with bugs during weeklong trip to the lake cottage up in northern Minnesota. Impressions so far:
Red exterior really looks sharp!
Power is adequate for my needs. I was pleased that it accelerated almost as well under a full load as it does empty (don't worry -- kept it under 4000 rpm for that break-in!). I'm not an off-roader, but it handled a washboardy gravel road quite well
Cargo room was good for what is really a pretty small car. We pack big for trips (no canoes or tents, but coolers, suitcases, bags of groceries, etc.) and the Forester swallowed it all with no trouble.
Found the interior accommodations to be quite comfortable. I don't much like the look of the XS upholstery, but it feels like it'll be durable at least. I haven't quite found my ideal driving position yet. I'm 6'1" and need the seat all the way back to avoid my right leg being at an awkward angle around the steering wheel, but this makes the pedals and steering wheel seem far away. Further experimentation is in order. Also, it feels odd sitting up so high, but that's probably because in my former car (96 Civic sedan) my butt was about five inches above the asphalt
I had been worried about headroom with the sunroof, but it turned out fine -- I have enough room to wear a baseball cap. Sunroof is wonderfully huge but quite noisy -- we preferred keeping it closed at highway speeds.
Climate control system works well, but haven't had the courage to try "auto mode" yet.
Love having the in-dash CD player, but I wish I had more easily accessible places up front to store my CDs... the lower bin in the armrest extension holds only a few because of the power plug. We stashed a few more in the map bins in the doors. The small netted cubby on the passenger side of the front console is quite odd -- we used it to store one cassette tape. Same for the dash bin above the clock; we didn't put anything there at all. (Suggestions?)
Cool CD player feature: We were playing a CD when we turned off the car to go in and eat. Came back, turned on the CD player -- and it started on the same track where we turned it off! (Perhaps I'm easily impressed.)
Jury is still out on the premium sound system. I find I have to keep the bass and treble low to keep the tweeters and woofer from dominating the midrange speakers. Perhaps I should check to make sure they installed the upgraded midrange speakers? (Another reason to keep the bass toned down: the Significant Other feeling the bass through her butt when in the passenger's seat, directly above the sub.)
Overall ... a solid thumbs up for the Forester. Thanks for all your help!
Also ... Subaru struck a good balance with handling vs. ride, but flaws in the pavement transmitted sharp little kicks into the cabin, perhaps even just a bit more jarring than in the trusty old Civic. Nothing serious though, definitely within the "I can live with it" range.
Have you doublechecked your tire pressures? Subaru ships with very high pressures, and dealer prep people sometimes forget to bring them down to specification.
- jack
A wise consumer can wait a few months until he supply increases. If you don't like the price, don't buy it.
Now I'll step down of my soapbox. Want to buy it? :0)
I can see using that catch phrase elsewhere; like, there are two kinds of drivers, SUVers and targets...ah, perhaps, not :-)
Steve, Host
Jack: You're right, and that's something I've been meaning to do ... thanks for the reminder.
here's a quick question of my own. just hitting the 7500mi mark and want to rotate the tires but am curious of where to put the jack(s). should i use one jack (borrowed one of those 3ton sears jobs) about midway down the side & jack the whole left/right side as needed or shud i place that jack right behind the front tire, jack it up & use the spare tire jack w/the car to jack the rear (just in front of the rear tire, same side) like the manual recommends for jack placement. the manual doesn't indicate the best solution for doing the whole side of the vehicl for tire rotation purposes. any guidence here would be appreciated. is using a good floor jack in conjunctoin w/the scissor jack supplied with the car a good/safe idea? i won't be going under the vehicle in that position of course. tks
I was perfectly happy with Sandy. She's been loyal, great to me really. No complaints here, you guys know that.
What an engine. On a scale of 1 to 10, I give it a 14 because I didn't think engines could be that good! It blows all the rules and becomes the new yardstick.
I drove a 5 speed in Cayenne Red. Right away I notice the engine is actually quieter, smoother revving. AVCS at work? Guess so.
We pull out, I notice the steering is quicker. It's still not too heavy, well weighted actually.
Merge into traffic - and well beyond it. It's very hard to go slow with this thing, it wants to run right away, even at low rpm.
I did notice there's still a little dive/squat, and lean too. Needs a thicker set of matching sways and maybe 17" rims to tidy it up, but not much else.
Ride is still excellent. No wind noise at the windows, but you do hear the wind over the A-pillars. It's a box, what did I expect, right?
Man, that engine. Mmm, it would be nice in any Subaru, Baja, Legacy, any one of them. The thing pulls like a freight train, you feel the torque push you into the seat, but linearly. No burst of power like the WRX, but torque all over the tach. I merged onto I-270 and purposely went slow and in 3rd gear, must've been 30 mph. Hit the gas at the end of the ramp, and when I looked down I was doing 80mph!
Lag? What lag? Hit the throttle and it goes *NOW*.
But compare it to anything else in its class, and...well, there is nothing even close. Really, what could you compare it to?
Vue Redline only comes next year. For fun, I went to a Saturn dealer next. They don't have the Redline yet, so I drove a V6/auto. That thing sounded coarse in comparison, you'd almost expect the opposite, but no. Also, more noise than results, it felt slower than my non-turbo Forester, to be honest. Seats were awful, no support, spongy. The grey lower half and beige upper half of the interior are outright ridiculous. Who did the color scheme? Plasticky too.
The Vue was roomier, and...I'm trying to be nice here, but it's hard. The XT is so, sooo much better in every way I can think of. Even the ride was stiff, without handling that was any better than the Forester.
So, big thumbs up for the XT. What took so long to offer a turbo in the US? No idea. Also, puh-lease give us the 5 speed with the premium package option. I swear I would have bought it right then and there. It's easier to apologize to the spouse vs. getting permission, you know?
-juice
HINT: You may want to try using the factory jack for one wheel, just to familarize yourself with it and to make sure it works. You definitely do NOT want to find out if there's a problem when you have to change a flat tire on some back road some night in the pouring rain! I hope this helps.
Len (also from NJ)
Exactly. At least for now. Whenever one shops for cars, there are pluses and minuses to each one. Each buyer has to apply his/her own "weights" and add up the positives and negatives for each candidate car, then make the buy based on which one comes out on top. I've agonized in the past over relatively small differences between the top two finishers. Only once before has my decision been "made for me" by the introduction of a vehicle that was so far out in front of the next-closest competitor that it literally became a no-brainer.
That's why I ordered my XT, sight unseen, no opportunity to test-drive one first, no authoritative, exhaustive magazine tests to go on. You just KNEW, instinctively, that if a regular '03 Forester is at all acceptable (and they're better than that), the XT would be a slam dunk.
I still haven't driven a 5-speed XT, as you have (lucky stiff!), but if it's even only a little stronger than the automatic I did drive, it's a guaranteed winner. I only wish the XT's EPA ratings didn't fall quite so far.
- jack
Did you get to try an auto? I just wanted to make sure my butt-dyno was calibrated right.
Ken
Better still, just make the moonroof standard on the XT, and offer leather as a stand-alone option.
Bob
Bob
I think the Baja, even with the turbo will be in less demand than the XT. Therefore I think the Baja turbo will be discounted more heavily than the XT, once all the new model hoopla dies down.
Bob
Yep, that used to be my attitude too, until my wife started pulling the same routine!! Now I have to be more careful....
OK, well, the seed has been planted. Let us know when you drive the new XT home Juice!
Craig
-mike
OK, now that the bad geek pun has been purged from my system, y'all can resume your regular programming.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but the Baja is like a cinder in mine. If Subaru took the Baja turbo all the way down to $10,000, I still wouldn't be interested. 2nd ugliest pickup after the Avalanche, which will never be matched.
- jack
"Same for the dash bin above the clock; we didn't put anything there at all. (Suggestions?)"
My wife put one of those small kleenex boxes in there and it fits perfectly (handy to get at too).
I firmly believe you will see a whole lot of Avalanche-inspired trucks in the future. Let's just hope they are born with better looks.
Bob
Bob
XT Auto = 19/23
Normally aspirated Foresters.
5-speed = 21/27
Auto = 21/26
I guess I just like seeing any numbers below 20 mpg.
Bob
There's no reason why this type of vehicle has to be intentionally uglified. Lincoln made one (called the Blackwood, I believe) that was not all that repugnant.
"XT 5-speed = 18/23" ...vs WRX, 20-27 !!
"XT Auto = 19/23" ...the one I saw was 18-23...
"Vs. naturally-aspirated Foresters:"
"5-speed = 21/27"
"Auto = 21/26"
And don't forget to factor in the XT's requirement for costlier 91-octane premium fuel...
- jack
That should have read:
I guess I just don't like seeing any numbers below 20 mpg.
Jack- I'm pretty sure the XT auto gets 1 mpg better than the 5-speed.
Bob
Now that you know the way to rotate tires "by the book", I'll tell you how I do it. You can do yours anyway you like, but here's what I recommend: 1) Remove the left front and put on the spare. 2) Move the left front to the left rear. 3) Move the left rear to the right front. 4) Move the right front to the right rear. 5) Move the right rear to the left front, and put the spare away.
Basically, you rotate front-to-rear on the same side, and cross the rears to the opposite front sides. I've used this pattern on all my cars for years, and have gotten great wear out of all my tires. If you only rotate front-to-rear on the same side, the way Subaru recommends, you won't get the full benefit of rotating them side to side as well. I am told that this can lead to "cupping" of the tread. (For the record, I contacted Yokohama when my 2001 Forester was new, to inquire about rotation patterns for the Yokohama Geolandar tires that were standard equipment on my vehicle. They told me that they recommended a cross-rotation pattern for best wear, but gave me the disclaimer that I should follow the vehicle manufacturer's recommendation. I chose not to.)
I recently replaced the original equipment Geolandars at 60K miles. They had all worn evenly, and had about 4/32" of tread depth remaining. I rotate my tires every 5K (makes it easy for me to remember) and check pressures at least weekly. I always ran the Geos at 32 PSI all around.
I have a Sears Craftsman 1/2" drive "MicroTork" torque wrench that usually costs around $59.00 on sale. You'll also need a 1/2" drive 6 point 19mm socket (about $5.00) and possibly a 3" or 6" extension bar (also around $5.00).
I personally use Bill Kolb, Jr. Subaru in Orangeburg, NY, for any service that I don't do myself. They are convenient, because they're about 5 minutes from where I work. I am very happy with their service AND sales departments, and would recommend them to anyone. They are certainly worth the trip, in my opinion. We bought our last two Subaru's from them, and we'll buy our next one there as well. A lot of the guys on these boards swear by Flemington Subaru, so their service department also comes highly recommended.
I hope this helps (and sorry for the long post).
Len
This is the first time i've heard of a four tire monty! By the way isn't the spare tire on a wheel that does not match the appearance of the other Four. I haven't looked but I was just presuming so.
I think I am tire changer challenged.
Gene
"Your Money > Autos
Most small SUVs fail crash test
Insurance group says that most of the compact SUVs fail its side-impact crash test.
June 17, 2003: 11:23 AM EDT
By Chris Isidore, CNN/Money Senior Writer
NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Most small sport/utility vehicles were given poor safety ratings in side-impact crash tests by a private group.
The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, a nonprofit research and communications organization funded by auto insurers, gave its lowest "poor" ratings to seven models -- the Toyota RAV4, the Suzuki Vitara as well as its two twin vehicles, the Grand Vitara and the Chevrolet Tracker, the Land Rover Freelander, the Mitsubishi Outlander, Saturn VUE, Honda Element, and the Ford Escape when not equipped with an optional side-impact airbag.
The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety's side-impact crash test found most small SUVs not protecting occupants from injury.
When equipped with that airbag, the Escape got the top "good" rating, as did the Subaru Forester, which also has a side-impact air bag.
The Hyundai Santa Fe got an "acceptable" rating, while two other models, the Honda CR-V and Jeep Wrangler, got "marginal" ratings.
The Institute's crash test uses a barrier that runs into the side of the vehicles, similar to the test performed by the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration, the federal agency that does its own tests. But the Institute's test is set somewhat higher off the ground than the government's barrier to simulate a collision with a full-size SUV or pickup truck, and it produced far worse ratings than the NHTSA results.
For example, the NHTSA side-impact tests gave its best five-star rating for both the front- and rear-seat occupants for the Toyota Rav-4, the Saturn VUE, the Ford Escape and the Honda CR-V. The Chevy Tracker and its Suzuki twins got four-star ratings for the risk to front-seat occupants and five-star rating for the rear-seat occupants. The Land Rover Freelander, the Mitsubishi Outlander, the Jeep Wrangler and the Honda Element have yet to be tested by the federal agency for side impact damage.
"It (difference in ratings) is not surprising because the tests are different," said Institute Vice President Joseph Nolan. "We're assessing the likelihood of head injury when struck by a high-ride vehicle, and we're using more sensitive crash dummies. We feel they do need to upgrade their standards."
Nolan said the "poor" rating signifies significant risk of injury to the occupants, while even the "marginal" rating also suggest a large risk of injury, although somewhat less risk than those with a "poor" rating.
This is the first time that the Institute has done its own side impact test on new vehicles. It intends to eventually perform the tests on all types of vehicles, including larger SUVs, other light trucks, and passenger car models.
The Institute has conducted front-impact crash tests in the past. Among the small SUVs, only the Subaru Forester received both a "good" rating for both side and front impact."
Greg
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/030617/autos_airbags_1.html
The full size spare tire is mounted on a steel wheel that is different from the other 4 alloy wheels (in the case of the Forester S, anyway).
Len
As for the upgrades, I having the improved speakers installed. Hopefully this will improve the overall sound quality. Would anyone recommend the tweeters and subwoofer? Are they worth it? The tweeters look easy enough to install, but what about the sub?
Thanks, Matt
The first step to improving handling is to get better tires. A good set of high performance tires even on 16" tires makes a huge difference. Keep in mind, though that the while the Forester has more body lean through turns, it scored only 0.1 mph slower than the WRX in a Motor Trend slalom test (I read about it at NASIOC).
Ken
Thanks a lot, Bob. Now there's a downer!
- jb
Craig
I'd far rather do it your way, except that:
(1) the (XT) spare is on a steel wheel that's completely different from the others; I'd have to buy a 5th alloy wheel and re-mount the spare onto it.
(2) The four tires on the road are continuously wearing; the spare isn't wearing at all while off the ground. At some point (unless you consistently rotate sooner) you're running the risk of exceeding Subaru's stated 1/4" maximum tolerance (a rather tiny difference) for dissimilar circumferences the next time you rotate the spare onto the ground. I have no idea what the maximum interval between rotations would have to be to be sure of avoiding this.
(3) At some point in years past, some tire manufacturers strongly cautioned against moving an in-use radial tire to a position (i.e. across the vehicle) where its usual rotating direction would be reversed. This had something to do with the radial belts taking an initial "set" early in the life of the tire, and problems that could occur if the principal rotational direction was later reversed. The issue never seemed to affect bias-ply tires. Perhaps with newer materials and methods, this no longer applies to radials, either.
- jack
My objectives in ordering the XT were:
To not feel trapped on 2-lane mountain roads behind RVs, semitrucks, and so forth. I want abundant acceleration so I can quickly get around on short straights with an ample margin of safety, when most cars have to keep plodding along waiting for those rare long straights or passing lanes.
To perform in ordinary, everyday driving with large reserves of usually-untapped power. This makes everything much more pleasant and relaxed, instead of requiring the vehicle to frequently strain at high revs or full throttle just to do the same things.
As for handling, I was pleasantly pleased by the excellent cornering capability of the '03 XS I test-drove (much harder than my typical driving) prior to ordering the XT. I doubt I'll ever press my XT any harder than that.
- jack
Ken