Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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Comments

  • johnb2251johnb2251 Member Posts: 33
    The 1.8T has virtually no turbo lag, but it wheezes out at high RPM.

    Since the XT is supposed to have little lag, does it also wheeze out at high RPM? Does this explain why the horsepower rating is relatively low?
  • ariellearielle Member Posts: 9
    Can't decide between Black Java Pearl, Silver Metallic and Sierra Gold metallic. Which is sharpest looking, a head turner, easiest to keep clean, most fade resistant, a color i won't tire of?
  • raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    Hey, it's your car, your choice. Silver and gold tend to hide the dirt better.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Can't decide between Black Java Pearl, Silver Metallic and Sierra Gold metallic.

    I'd definitely go with the Silver Metallic!

    ... a color i won't tire of?

    Only you can answer that one!

    tidester, host
  • johnb2251johnb2251 Member Posts: 33
    I was quoted $600 over invoice. Good deal?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think so. Fitzgerald had them at $100 over, and then I tested one. This is funny - the price jumped up $400 the next day!

    Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned how much I liked it!

    Wheeze out? I doubt it, I didn't redline the engine, but it felt very satisfying up to 5500rpm, at which point I'd shift.

    As far as colors, think about the interior color, too. For instance, I'm tired of beige now, so I want gray for my next car. But then my previous car had a gray interior, so I wanted beige at the time.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Black always look sharp BUT it takes a lot to clean. I think the best trade off is silver.

    Ken
  • joybelljoybell Member Posts: 275
    is a lot easier to maintain. I know because I've had that colour and after 10 years it still looked new with only a little waxing every fall and a wash now and then. I didn't take any special care of it. I also have a red Subie (a Loyale), and that colour has faded and makes the car look old. Also, dust and small scratches don't show up as much on Silver than other colours.
  • SteveSatchSteveSatch Member Posts: 20
    I have a '98 Outback limited with auto trans that I bought in the summer of '97. It has about 65,000 miles on it and runs great. I've had no problems with it and my only complaint is the lack of power. I think I made a mistake getting the auto trans. Oh well. Anyway I want something with more power and I'm sure I'll get a manual trans (I just hope I haven't forgot how to drive one in the last six years!). Should I get a turbo Forester or wait for a more powerful Outback? How much smaller is the current Forester than an older Outback? I'm a bit worried about that. Driving my Outback daily makes me feel like it isn't big and I wouldn't want to go smaller. My kids are 6 and 3, but most of the family trips are in her mini van. This would be a daily driver but would need ample room for kids in back. I fear the leg room isn't enough since I put the driver's seat all the way back. When I bought my Outback the Forester just came out and I got in the rear seat and I was not impressed with the leg room-but that was six years ago and it may be different now. I'm also not sure about cargo room.....But the price is right and it's here now. I've heard the next Outback might have a 3.0 250 HP non turbo engine in a lighter car than the current Outback. Will there be a turbo Outback? Any thoughts on how a non turbo Outback would do performance wise against the turbo Forester? I tend to think a bigger engine Outback would cost at least several thousand more than a turbo Forester. The price of the turbo Forester, the performance one gets for the $, and maybe having just enough room makes it looks real nice. It sounds like the perfect little bit of everything car.
    Satch
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    XT 5 speed. You won't regret it.

    -juice, still suffering from XT envy, worse now after the test drive
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    johnb2251 wrote, "I was quoted $600 over invoice. Good deal?"

    I'm paying $100 over invoice...

    - jb
  • mckeownmckeown Member Posts: 165
    Steve, I've owned both. Current vehicles are 96 Caravan and 02 Forester. Kids are 9 and 11. Family travel is in the van, BUT with the Turtle Case we bought when our "big" vehicle was the Legacy wagon, we can ALL travel in the Forester if anything happens to the van. That includes a very big dog in the rear.
    Both are great vehicles, with different personalities. The Forester IS sportier especially with a 5 sp and "short shifter". The Legacy DID have more rear leg room, but starting in 03 the Forester has an inch or so more. In either case, I have not heard a complaint about that from the rear peanut gallery.
    My $.02
  • padraicsdadpadraicsdad Member Posts: 16
    Sorry, Jack. The USS Stark ((FFG 31), which was struck in by two Exocet missiles in 1987, was NOT an Aegis ship. She was a guided missile frigate of the Oliver Hazard Perry class. In fact, there are no Aegis frigates in the US Navy, only Ticonderoga (CG-47) class cruisers and Arleigh Burke (DDG-51) class destroyers. The big difference, of course, is the Aegis radar and weapons control system. Had the Stark had it, and had the rules of engagement permitted it, she could have tracked and destroyed the missiles and the Iraqi aircraft that lunched them them.

    Sorry for the off-topic post

    CJ
  • ivestorparkivestorpark Member Posts: 31
    Are you satisfied with your gray interior (XS cloth)? Is it too hot when the car sits in the sun all day with the windows closed? Of the exterior colors available I'll probably buy a silver exterior. I've had brown and beige interiors in my past two cars, so besides the dirt showing on the interior floor I'm not anxious for a beige interior again. Also, I'm not crazy for the green exterior that comes with it. I wish that Subaru gave the choice of an exterior white on the XS.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    ivestorpark asks, "Are you satisfied with your gray interior (XS cloth)? Is it too hot when the car sits in the sun all day with the windows closed?"

    I'd have preferred that all-gray interior to the mixed black-and-grey that is the only choice on XTs. The XT dash, console, and door panels (except armrests) appear to be the same as that all-gray XS interior, but the seats, armrests, and carpets are black. I don't like that as well as the XS look.

    As for heat, aren't you able to crack the four windows an inch or so to help reduce interior heat buildup?

    Someday I'd like to get two of those slender solar-powered fan gizmos that fit at the top of a door window. After rolling the window up against the fan, it's reasonably secure. Meanwhile, the solar-powered fan circulates a little outside air into the interior. With one on each side (one blowing in, the other exhausting out), you'd get pretty good cross ventilation. Anybody have any firsthand experience with these?

    - jack
  • gmginsfogmginsfo Member Posts: 116
    Matt, you asked about the need for a subwoofer and the upper door tweeters after an overall speaker. Unless you like to go around disturbing the peace, skip the subwoofer; you'll probably never miss it. I installed the tweeters myself in five (5!) minutes with only my hands for tools and they really make a difference. I ordered mine from 1stSubaruParts and they arrived cross-country in less than a week.

    I'm about to head over to Fry's and pick up a set of Polk EX365 speakers on sale for $49 for the front door to improve my midrange. Anyone had any experience with these? BTW, when people talk about the speakers they've installed, how about giving the mfr. name and exact model number so we can see what works and what doesn't.

    My clock problem hasn't returned since I reset it and it keeps great time. Had my first oil change at 1600 miles last weekend and it was a freebie included in the local "Welcome Neighbor" kit I got when I moved to SDiego. Great place, this!

    My only gripe so far, in addition to the still unimpressive mileage - I generally cruise the freeways at 3K RPM: at a somewhat husky (cf. "portly") 6'1, I'd like to scoot the driver's seat back further than it goes for more legroom and ease of entry. The rails on which that seat sits extend further back into the rear passenger's legwell than do those on the shotgun side. Besides not being the most visually appealing thing to see every time I open the rear door, it also adds insult to injury by reminding me that there seems plenty of room left on those rails to move the driver's seat back further. Any thoughts on this? Were the rails installed improperly and is safety an issue? I sure would like to take advantage of that wasted room if I could!

    I'm thinking about adding the moonroof air deflector to keep some of the windnoise down; anyone have any thoughts here? Someone earlier had mentioned the lack of door wind deflectors, in light of the frameless design. Has anyone found a way around this issue? I like to drive with the windows and roof open, but the rushing air has caused tinnitus and I've been "rolling up" lately.

    Finally, any thoughts on the old "brake or downshift" debate? I've got the auto and frequently shift into 3rd when going down hills or coming to a stop, and stay off the brakes as long as possible while I decrease speed. I've also noticed that at low speeds, the auto doesn't shift up when I let go of the gas, but stays in a low gear while slowing down, which is a bit disconcerting at times. Any ideas here?

    Happy weekend, all! Mike.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Mike wrote, "Finally, any thoughts on the old "brake or downshift" debate? I've got the auto and frequently shift into 3rd when going down hills or coming to a stop, and stay off the brakes as long as possible while I decrease speed.

    With manual transmissions, you can (and should) blip the throttle at each downshift to speed-match, so that the clutch isn't dragging the engine up to the new RPM. Done properly, I think it's fine to use engine braking to complement the brakes. With automatics, there's no good way to avoid the stress on the transmission each time it downshifts against an engine that's running at lower RPM and at closed throttle. Even on long moderate downgrades, modern all-disk brake systems have plenty of fade resistance to make this unnecessary unless you're towing a heavy load. I manually downshift automatics only when I want to force the transmission to hold a particular gear on twisty roads.

    - jack
  • jimbob17jimbob17 Member Posts: 77
    Corkfish you mentioned accelerate like a Mustang. It reminded me of when I was in college and I was visiting a friend at Va. Tech. I rode back with a guy and he said I could drive while he slept.
    It was, I believe, a 65 Mustang convertible with a manual tranny. It was a beautiful clear night, the top was down and I was in heaven driving that car from Blacksburg Va. to Petersburg area. I'll never forget it.
    Sorry about drifting off the subject a bit.
  • SteveSatchSteveSatch Member Posts: 20
    What's the cargo capacity of the turbo Forester with rear seats down? Is it 64.1 or 61.4? Also, I don't see an engine underguard protector for the Forester. Does Subaru sell one? They do for the Outback. That's weird because the Outback is more suppossed to be more like a station wagon and the Forester more like an SUV. I have both the engine underguard and the rear dif protector on my Outback and I feel a lot better going on bad roads with them. The Forester with just the rear dif protector would leave me worried.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    SteveSatch asks, "What's the cargo capacity of the turbo Forester with rear seats down? Is it 64.1 or 61.4?"

    It's 64.1 on non-sunroof models, and slightly less (around 63, I don't have the exact figure) with the sunroof, because of the lower interior ceiling that extends nearly all the way back.

    - jb
  • ivestorparkivestorpark Member Posts: 31
    If I leave the windows cracked an inch or so, I get dust and elements blown inside the car. If I crack it only .25" it doesn't seem to cool my car that much or help reduce the smokey film on the windows. So it's six of one; half-dozen of the other.

    I knew somebody would bring that up.
  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    New brakes are a lot cheaper than a new tranny.
  • linzaklinzak Member Posts: 2
    Have test driven and really like the Forester. Hubby and I have concerns regarding the sustained speed and merge capability on Interstate Highways. Also, the comfort of the seats concerning same.

    Any help would be appreciated. Would like to purchase before weeks' end if all goes well. OR should we wait for Turbo?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The Forester has reasonable power, but the turbo will erase any doubts, for sure. We have a 2001 Forester, and I've driven both the 5-speed and automatic turbo Foresters (obviously they've arrived!).

    Bob
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    linzak asks, "Any help would be appreciated. Would like to purchase before weeks' end if all goes well. OR should we wait for Turbo? "

    No need to wait for an XT; they've begun arriving at dealerships in quantity pretty much everywhere in the past week. I'm taking delivery of mine tomorrow evening. My dealer has four others ready to sell.

    As for power, I'd guess that the 5-speed manual X or XT (non-turbo) Foresters will be adequate for 80-90% of buyers. If you want the automatic and/or routinely carry (or tow) loads, or if you do a lot of mountain driving, or if (like me) you just like having abundant power in reserve so the car does everything you ask with no strain at all, then the XT is a better choice - and not all that much more expensive. Mine, at $100 over dealer invoice, will be slightly less than $24000 with everything I want, including a $200 boost gauge.

    - jack
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Linzak:

    When I typed "As for power, I'd guess that the 5-speed manual X or XT (non-turbo) Foresters will be adequate for 80-90%..." I obviously meant to say "X or XS".

    As for back seat comfort, that's one of the Forester's few real shortcomings. It's probably fine for kids, tolerable for adults for short distances, but almost surely unacceptable for adults for trips of any long duration. And whether or not there's any kneeroom back there depends a lot on how far back you need to set the front seats to be comfortable. Only way to evaluate this is to set a Forester's front seats where you and your husband want them to be, and then try to sit in the back. You may or may not find the back acceptable. In my case, any time I want to carry adults in back, I'll have to move my seat several inches farther forward than I'd prefer. That makes operating the clutch awkward. Fortunately, we also have a full-size Chrysler Concorde with several more years of life left, and with an extremely comfortable and spacious back seat, so that's what we'll usually use to carry adults. When it's due to be replaced, we'll check out the next-generation Legacy to see how adult-friendly its back seat is.

    - jack
  • SteveSatchSteveSatch Member Posts: 20
    What options are people getting on the turbo Forester? Edmund's option page isn't showing anything so I'm wondering what people are getting. I also still haven't found out if it has an engine underguard protector or if one is available.
    Thanks,
    Satch
  • linzaklinzak Member Posts: 2
    Where we live in South Jersey, the dealership has not had ONE automatic to test. Said they only have 1 manual, which unfortunately, I cannot drive. Where are they in greater abundance?
  • jason_elsjason_els Member Posts: 57
    Linda, you have hit upon one of the oddball vagaries of Subaru's less-than-efficient distribution system. In the continental US there are three Subaru importers, each with exclusive zones. Subaru of New England has, suitably, New England. New York and New Jersey (not sure if PA or another) are handled by Subaru Distribution Corporation. Both SNE and SDC will be getting XTs in quantity at the END of summer. It's highly annoying that we have to wait while other markets are suitably served in the mean time. I wrote Subaru's CEO about this but don't expect the situation to change. It's been that way forever.

    The solution really is to go down to Maryland and just get one at Fitzmall or some other giant volume discount place though, at this time, Fitzmall doesn't seem to be discounting the XT nearly as much as the other models. I'm not endorsing them in any way as I've never purchased from them but you can see their inventory online and what they're asking.

    I live in New York and sympathize with your position. Be patient if you can or try out Fitzmall and see what you can find.
  • xccoachlouxccoachlou Member Posts: 245
    New York and North Jersey.

    I'm not sure why that is. Or why we have in the past had to pay a higher freight charge than folks in MD, for example.

    I think folks in New England pay an ever higher freight charge.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Satch: Primitive Enterprises sells both steel and aluminum skid plates for the whole line of Subies, including the Forester. Since they don't mount to the engine, there's no reason to believe they won't fit the XT.

    The ads are right, the XT has "power to spare", as Armstrong says. Given you expressed the concern, there's your answer. The XT is a hoot and if you get one, I'll be jealous!

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The funny thing is—that's where Subaru's US headquarters is located; in Cherry Hill, just outside of Philly! You'd think that maybe NJ dealers might get some special treatment...

    At any rate, the turbos are just arriving. It won't be long before there are plenty around to test drive.

    Bob
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    What is the EPA rating for a manual tranny XT?

    I can't find anything about the vehicle on the Subaru web site - what gives?
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    SteveSatch asks, "What options are people getting on the turbo Forester? Edmund's option page isn't showing anything"

    I'm getting Popular Equip Grp 1C (rear bumper cover, cargo tray, silver splash guards at $177, Popular Equip Grp 3B (cabin air filter, rear cargo net, gray armrest extension) at $145, column-mount boost gauge at $200, and rubber floor mats at $33. Prices in each case are invoice, not MSRP. If the dealer can get them, I'll also have him install an uncomon option: protective rubber moldings on the four bumper covers - cost not yet known, but somewhere under $100.

    Total cost, including $100 over invoice, not counting the last item, is $23,978.

    - jack
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    linzak asks, "Where we live in South Jersey, the dealership has not had ONE automatic to test. Said they only have 1 manual, which unfortunately, I cannot drive. Where are they in greater abundance?"

    Each of the six Portland, Oregon area dealers has at least two, most have more. My dealer has five, only one of which is a manual, and that's mine, to be delivered Monday evening.

    - jack
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Supposedly Subaru will be updating their site this week sometime with XT information and pricing.

    Until then, you can check http://www.carsdirect.com and price out an XT with available options.

    I'm still waiting for a 'real' brochure on the XT as well. *shrug*

    -Brian
  • forestergumpforestergump Member Posts: 119
    The Midwest US is also decidely underserved in terms of XT inventories. So don't feel too bad.
  • raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    We've only got two of them, and the GM wants to hide them until we sell off the 2003's. I'm in the New England region.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Here's the link for skid plates, I was at home and didn't have it yesterday:

    http://www.writerguy.com/primitive/skid.htm

    IIRC the EPA ratings are 18/23 for the manual, and 19/23 for the auto. Not great but then again what will match its performance that does better in gas mileage?

    chassol owns the first auto I've heard of on these boards and got 20.7 on the first tank in mixed driving, not bad at all for a green engine. Remember that Edmunds' XTerras and Escapes typically get 14-16 mpg and are slower.

    -juice
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    The 2 dealers near me (Racine, WI and Libertyville, IL) have 3 XT's each (2 AT's, 1 MT).

    -Brian
  • forestergumpforestergump Member Posts: 119
    Interesting...
    I'm going to be in Kenosha later this week, and just might have to check out one of those dealers.
  • leo2633leo2633 Member Posts: 589
    I don't know how far south you are, but Freehold Subaru (Rt.s 9 and 79) have several Forester XT automatics. If you're further south than that, I believe Pine Belt Subaru is on Rt. 37 in Toms River. I have no personal experience with either dealer, and cannot recommend them as being either good or bad.

    If you don't mind a trip north, however, I CAN recommend Bill Kolb, Jr. Subaru in Orangeburg, NY (just north of Alpine, NJ). We've purchased our last two Subarus from Kolb, and couldn't be happier with our experience. Their sales and service departments are excellent! I hope this helps.

    Len
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Juice observes, "IIRC the EPA ratings are 18/23 for the manual, and 19/23 for the auto. Not great but then again what will match its performance that does better in gas mileage?"

    (1) WRX - equal or better performance, and trounces the XT on gas mileage.

    (2) STi - trounces the XT on performance, and delivers moderately better EPA ratings even though it's much more highly tuned and even weighs more.

    - jb
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I gotta disagree there.

    Below 3500rpm, the XT trounces the WRX. There is just no comparison. We're talking about a torque-rich V8 vs. a 4 banger Civic.

    The EPA tests are mild, they're done at rpm where the WRX would seem like a slow car (mostly off boost). The city test does not exceed 55mph, while the highway test does not exceed 65mph, IIRC. The XT would be fast, even under those very mild circumstances. Very different IMO.

    The Forester is far less aerodynamic than either, also. Plus the XT has the huge side mirrors standard as well as a roof rack.

    Chassol reported 20.7mpg, do you really think in the real world an STi owner will do better? ;-)

    -juice
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Be on the lookout for a Winestone Outback with SU-BEAR-U plates! What's bringing you to Kenosha?

    (trying to be back 'on-topic') Anyone know how the magic of the AVCS works on the new motor? (I understand what variable valve timing is, but how does it work on the Subie?) When does it start switching modes or timing?

    -Brian
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Juice says, "Below 3500rpm, the XT trounces the WRX. There is just no comparison. We're talking about a torque-rich V8 vs. a 4 banger Civic."

    Obviously I assume you're right; I'll be driving an XTpicking up an XT tonight, not a WRX.I've never driven a WRX. Some magazine testers (and owners) assert that the WRX is fine at low-to-mid RPM; others say it's flat as a pancake below 3500-4000. Is the car schizophrenic, or just the drivers?
  • SteveSatchSteveSatch Member Posts: 20
    Thanks for the skid plate info. Which one of those would be for the Forester though?
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    subearu asks, "Anyone know how the magic of the AVCS works on the new motor? (I understand what variable valve timing is, but how does it work on the Subie?) When does it start switching modes or timing?"

    I have no firsthand knowledge quite yet, but the pre-purchase research I did indicated that the Subaru AVCS is continuously variable, and thus would not have discrete modes, as some other systems do. On the 2.5 liter STi/XT/Baja engines, it's applied only to the intakes. I saw a note on a Japanese site indicating that the next-gen Legacy will have dual-mode AVCS. I took that to mean that variable valve timing may be fitted to both the intakes and the exhausts.

    - jack
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Don't get me wrong, I like the WRX very much. I'm comparing both in a 5 speed, for reference.

    I've always said, the WRX has a split personality. It's a docile, efficient commuter up until 3000 rpm. Then boost builds and it's an animal.

    I really think the EPA test does not take the WRX into the rpm range where it's making lots of boost (if any).

    The Forester IS fast at 3000rpm, it's fast at 2000rpm. Heck, it almost doesn't matter what gear or what speed, I hit the throttle and it just lunged forward immediately.

    Obviously the boost comes on much sooner so it's using more fuel, more often than the WRX.

    -juice
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