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Comments
Is there any way I can verify the true invoice cost of Foresters and options in Massachusetts? Thanks for any help!
Larry
Reported 6.2 seconds for 0-60.
Only negative was a sticky hill holder.
Also - I'm getting pretty close to a decision on the XT over the XS. I'm thinking about the 7/100 extended warranty, but am getting quoted a price by the dealer of $1,499 with a $100 deductible. Any advice on that? I read some earlier (1992)info on the Subaru Gold plan for about $1,000 with no deductible. Did the price go up or am I being over-charged? What about purchasing it later?
Its true that there sometimes is an ad fee that Subaru of New England charges which is around $300. As far as I can tell, that is currently not on the table (if anyone knows differently, please say so!) Having shopped in VA and MA, the MA dealers were virtually the same exact price.
All that being said, I'm currently getting my chain jerked by a MA dealer who vagulely quoted $19700 on a 2.5x auto and today had his manager veto that and come in at $20800 which is not even ballpark. I have much lower quotes from other dealers so I will give this guy one more chance to get my business, otherwise its off to another dealer. I'm telling you guys though, say what you want about General Motors, but in the 5 GM vehicles I have been involved in buying at various dealers, the dealershp experience was FAR better and more straightforward. The quoted price was the price! I think that the SNE distributorship has a lot to do with this.
-mike
Overall, though, I think you will encounter good and bad dealers with any make. For many years, my parents bought Dodge cars and trucks because they had a good relationship with the dealer, yet the cars were not that good at all. Years later, my parents bought a Honda Accord. The sales experience sucked, but it has been the best car they ever bought. I guess if you're lucky, you can find a good car and have a good buying experience.
When I bought my WRX in January, I did the initial negotiating over e-mail (2-3 days), and then went up to the dealer for a test drive and picked out the car I wanted. I was in and out of there in 3 hours, which is a record for me!
Craig
So far as warranty - "I'm thinking about the 7/100 extended warranty, but am getting quoted a price by the dealer of $1,499 with a $100 deductible." - If this is for the XT it's well in the ballpark. Matter of fact it may be somewhat low, because if you look at the extended warranty contract there is a space for an additional fee (usually $250.00) for "TURBO". Your "1992" figure is a little old for 2003 (11 years). However if you try to wheel and deal - you may or may not get the dealer to go with the NO DEDUCTIBLE for the same price or a little more. If you plan on keeping the car for several years it could be worth it. One major component and it could easily be the amount of the extended warranty - this is your decision - with a TURBO it might not be a bad idea. Just make certain you have all your maintenance done on time as required and keep receipts. Oh yes, you might be able to purchase it later (must be before the regular warranty is up), but you may not get as good a deal and the price could go up.
Hope this helps............
Thanks also for the info on the added charges in NE. It looks like I'm getting the 2004 XT AT for the original invoice price plus the $300 New England distributer charge, plus retail cost for two options I chose (the compass mirror and a cargo tray), and the dealers fee for "Documentary preparation" of $186 (which I now know is too high). I'm also thinking of adding an after market moonroof which is power and tilts up for $950, and putting on the plastic coating on the front of the car (Roadblock) for $595. Am I making any serious missteps here before I totally seal the deal? Any other important options to consider (like mudguards). In need to keep my car looking good for work.
During this process I've been to a number of nearby Subaru dealers. I actually thought they were great - no complaints about any of them except that it was really hard to pin them down on price. I actually went with a dealer who was more upfront about pricing, and could get after market additions like a moon roof for what I thought was a reasonable price.
My big hurdle was the XS vs. XT decision. I was really on the fence, but made my (final?) decision by rationalizing. I have an easier time spending more on capital items (car, house, etc) than on expenses along the way (gas, insurance). When I drove the XT I loved the smoothness of the ride and the fact that it had more power when I needed it. I also liked the look of the interior of the XT better even than the leather in the premium XS (a silver car with gray leather didn't excite me)
But I didn't want to spend extra on more and higher grade gas. So I capitalized that extra cost over time (a maximum of $336/year for ten years) and realized that I would have gladly spent and extra $3360 for the XT. I liked it so much better than any other car in the $28,000 price range or even well into the mid $30's range.
Any last minute cautions, suggestions, opinions???
By the way, the recent JD Power and Associations Dealer Satisfaction Rankings show that Subaru dealers are significantly below average, while of the 21 dealers ranked above average, 6 of them are GM.
My understanding is that there is no reason you should be charged a $300 Subaru of New England fee except for the dealer just padding his profits. During my shopping there hasn't been one, and why would it just be on the XT? Personally, I wouldn't pay it.
My apologies if anyone was offended.
Hi and Help
I have been lurking in here for some time.
Thanks all for the great information.
I bought a Forester X, m/t, tweeters, tinted windows, armrest extension. I removed the extension because it interfered with the shifter.
I took delivery in early June. The cars been great so far (6900 km) except for a rattle (more of a creek) coming from around the radio.
question.
I was hoping to get some OEM alloy wheels for summer use and use the steel rims for winter tires. Subaru is making that VERY difficult, here's why 538.48 per rim here at the Ottawa area dealers. One would give me a "deal"of 495.00 each if I bought 4. I called some dealers in the USA 137.00 to 140.00 each down there, same part number 28111SA020. the point I'm trying to make is why should a 137.00us (193.00CAN) part cost 538.00CAN in Canada.
Also The only way to contact Subaru in Canada is to mail then a letter. There is no e-mail contact on the web site www.subaru.ca. and no phone number. Canada411 lists a number in B.C. but it's an automated system and you need to know the mailbox number.
thanks.
Shop it around, isn't there a place on the internet that gives free quotes? Remember, you can buy it up until the 3/36 B2B warranty is up.
Go with the XT, what is the price of happiness? I think the XT is a vehicle that people will look back at 10 years from now and say "I should have bought one".
-juice
Dealer fees: As others note in these boards, this issue can be a non-factor if focusing on the out the door cost. In VA, we have dealer "processing fees" galore. Fine. Meet my pre-tax only number, and you can charge me $10,000 for "processing," but then it comes from someplace else.
New England "surcharge": Call me a cynic, but why do I suspect this exists because Subies are so popular in the NE winter climate? It's just a dealer's way of telling you ya have to pay more here. They'll either negotiate it or they won't. I strongly doubt the actual car costs the dealer more in NE, and would love to hear if it does.
Thanks everyone,
ohsubeguy
I was open mouth shocked when she said it was a turbo Forester. The salewoman didn't tell me the turbo was on its way in March. Oh well.
Rebecca
Rebecca: you can join our Xtreme Torque Envy Club. We generally hallucinate about the advantages of the non-turbo:
* fewer speeding tickets
* XT is too fast, it actually distorts your face and causes wrinkles
* where do you go from there? Step DOWN to a Porsche 911 C4?
-juice
you can join our Xtreme Torque Envy Club. We generally hallucinate about the advantages of the non-turbo:
* fewer speeding tickets
* XT is too fast, it actually distorts your face and causes wrinkles
* where do you go from there? Step DOWN to a Porsche 911 C4?
Hallucinating is the correct word for it!
* gas prices might hit $5 per gallon like in Japan.
Maybe. Some day.
OK, I'm grasping for straws here. ;-)
-juice
Lumbar - My insurance seems to be $30 more per year - not a big issue for me. XT vs XS may be less of a tough decision by next year.
Juice - Good input - think I'll wait on the warranty. Does anyone know website for quotes?
mfletouva - I spent a lot of time at a lot of dealerships and I really appreciated their being nice. But I'm buying from only one and feeling a little guilty. Went with the one that played the least amount of games with price...
forestergump - unfortunately my lender is the dealer (2.9%). Is that a mistake?
One of the primary rules when buying a car is to separate negotiations for the purchase price from any negotiations for financing. The two deals are separate, despite what a salesperson might try to make you believe. IMHO.
Cheers
Pat
I agree with you on dealer fees. I tell my dealer deduct it from the selling price then add it back as the dealer fees. Truly it still depends on the bottom line price.
So far as the ---- ""New England "surcharge": Call me a cynic, but why do I suspect this exists because Subies are so popular in the NE winter climate? It's just a dealer's way of telling you ya have to pay more here. They'll either negotiate it or they won't. I strongly doubt the actual car costs the dealer more in NE, and would love to hear if it does."" - It is not the dealers - Subaru of New England is an independently owned DISTRIBUTORSHIP and does NOT belong to Subaru of America. When you see the invoice and the window sticker they are $300 higher than those sold by Subaru of America. There are (or were three years ago) three other one in Hawaii - one in Denver area and the other I can't recall (I think Pacific Northwest).
The key words are "Distributorship" versus "Dealership". The Subaru of New England Distributorship sells to all the Subaru Dealerships in New England. Subaru of New England buys the vehicles from Subaru and resells them to the Dealerships. This is not a bogus charge from the Subaru dealers in New England it's real.
BTW - If it had not been for Subaru of New England we might not have ever seen the Subaru Outback vehicles (or as soon as we did). The Subaru of New England distributorship had them special made for just them to provide to their dealerships in New England (about 1997 or so). Subaru of New England paid Subaru CASH for them. The owner of Subaru of New England - Ernie Boch (recently deceased and business now run by Boch Jr.) not only owns Subaru of New England DISTRIBUTORSHIP, but also has several other car line DEALERSHIPS in New England. His selling line is - "WE CAN SELL YOU A NEW CAR OR TRUCK FOR LESS - BECAUSE OUR COSTS ARE LESS - WE HAVE NO MORTGAGES WE PAY CASH FOR OUR CARS" - See here http://www.boch.com/.
Oh and the year he brought out the Outback line of Subarus he only spend over $30,000,000 CASH.
Sorry to be so long winded..........
My perspective would be that, if Subaru of New England is the sole distributorship in the area and is truly charging dealers X dollars more for the vehicle than is done in other locales and this is being passed to consumers, that this comes pretty close to the anti-trust line. However, since Mass. is a pretty activist state from the perspective of consumers, I'm going to assume that it's OK. But again, the ability of anyone to charge more (distributorship or dealer) still is ultimately tied to the demand side of the equation in a good area for Subaru.
BTW, I remember Ernie Boch from that area when he was an AMC dealer. How long ago was -that-?
Ernie Boch apparently knew a good deal when he saw it and never dreamt of selling it back to Subaru. Being the only authorized Distributor for New England does give him the right to price the cars as he "wholesales" after he buys from the manufacturer. Few people realize that several of the Japanese car manufacturers could not handle the entire U.S. distributorship when they came here in the early 60's - so this is how some of them are still independently owned. Even Toyota doesn't own all of the ones in the U.S. - take a look at this crown jewel - http://www.jmfamily.com/SET/default.htm.
Couldn't tell you about Ernie way back, but if you do a search on Google for Ernie Boch you come up with a lot of interesting stuff.
Subaru Canada, Inc. may be visited on-line (www.subaru.ca) or by contacting
5990 Falborne Street
Mississauga, Ontario L5R3S7
Phone: 905-568-4959
Fax: 905-568-8087.
-mike
As for Ernie Boch, he was not responsible for the entire Outback series but rather for the Special Edition Outback SEDAN, which he pretty much demanded Subaru create. Originally, it was sold only in New England but was extremely successful and was spread to the entire country. He was an interesting man and quite a businessman, but SNE was no stranger to the courtroom as he got sued a number of times.
Anyway, I look forward to many happy years of Forester ownership!
The first dealer I dealt with advertised a Forester 5 speed at 18399 (which I didn't want anyway). Nevertheless, I looked into it and found it didn't include destination plus a few hundred in other fees here and there. His lowest price on a car that I actually would buy was $20600. He insisted that any dealer that said they would sell a Forester under invoice was either lying or losing money. Well, I know they aren't lying, and I doubt they're losing money...and he lost a sale pretty quick!
Still, if you figure a 20400 invoice plus a 3% holdback you are talking $19733 so I figure that there must be something else that Subaru has in terms of dealer incentives to make that $19500 a feasible price to sell the Forester at.
Larry
"As for Ernie Boch, he was not responsible for the entire Outback series but rather for the Special Edition Outback SEDAN, which he pretty much demanded Subaru create. Originally, it was sold only in New England but was extremely successful and was spread to the entire country."
If Subaru had not seen how overwhelmingly successful it was they might not have started it nationwide. So Ernie was the driving force in getting the ball rolling.
Also the $300.00 is in the invoice price. Supposedly if you look at the invoice for the same exact vehicle with identical equipment outside of the Subaru of New England area it will be cheaper. Remember Subaru of New England is a Distributor NOT a Dealership.
The reason I'm sure of this is my local dealer (Florida) also owns a dealership in New England (Connecticut) and he is the one telling me of the pricing difference. It may not be exactly $300 for each car, but the price the dealer pays the distributor is higher in New England. Bottomline if you bought the car in New England you did pay more than you would have in the area (distributorship) owned by Subaru of America. Believe me Subaru wishes they could buy back the 3 or 4 remaining independent distributorships left in the USA. No ones willing to sell, can't imagine why :-)
I don't doubt that Boch was the driving force behind the entire Outback line--in fact, I'd probably say he is partly responsible for the success of Subaru as a brand going mainstream. Below is a good article about him (and about his creation of the SEDAN).
Brian
http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2- 249
It should be very helpful to those of us who have had or may have to deal with this problem.
Ed
That does it, I'm moving to Oregon. ;-)
-juice
-Frank P.
Steve, Host
-mike
-Frank P.
Steve, Host
Yeah, in MD you pay sales tax when you register the car. I've bought several used vehicles and registered them, learned the hard way to take a notorized bill of sale with the amount, else they charge you tax on the full blue book price too!
-juice
At least in MA, if you buy a car out of state, you still have the pay the tax for whichever state you register it in. However, it was not uncommon for MA residents to register their cars in New Hampshire through various loopholes until the Commonwealth of MA started cracking down on it a few years back.