Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

njswamplands

russski

Mudge

Try this
http://subaru.com.au/explore/forester/specifications.asp?item=170- 59

and this
http://subaru.com.au/explore/forester/downloads.asp?item=17059

Hope this helps.........Vitaly

akasrp

All been asked before but new players and time has passed.

What to clean/ condition (painted) dash with - clear armoral /silicone stuff OK?

Favorite ‘First Wax’? I’m still a waxer despite tales of not needing it anymore. Mequires Cleaner Wax in the cupboard now. Be happy to have White after fighting swirls and H2O spots on Black.

BTW, quoted $210 to Tint All Side + Back Windows - using same guy that did my Camry 7 years ago - local Sube dealer uses him too. Lifetime warranty - guaranteed no purple etc. Seesm a tad high but guy is OCD flawless.

srp_out

dnestr

njswamplands - I should have done this but the pavement is all around. Anyway thanks for the correction.

stever

Link 'em Swamper:

Subaru Crew Cafe

btw, Jack/Ballistic, did we invite you to I don't like SUVs, why do you? It's a fun place to rant about CAFE, etc. Depending on your definition of fun.

Steve, Host

zman

Vitaly,

Thanks for the links--just what I was looking for. Why this information is not on the Subaru of America website, I don't know. Probably shows how much less interested we are over here in performance vis a vis style.

The Mudge

ballistic

Buyers and manufacturers would naturally seek to minimize taxes. That would induce buyers to critically evaluate their _real_ transport needs and would tilt them in the direction of choosing the smallest, lightest vehicle that meets most of their needs most of the time - instead of buying the largest, heaviest one, as some people seem to do.

It would induce manufacturers to strive even harder to reduce poundage. The next Legacy will be about 200 pounds lighter than the current one, bringing it to approx 3,250 lbs or so. Think of the motivation Subaru would have to shave another 300 pounds, bringing it to 2,950# and reducing the weight tax by $2,500.

Another incentive could be this: If a vehicle exceeds the _minimum_ MPG for its weight class (per my table) by xx%, then its weight-tax could be reduced by that same xx%. This provides another powerful incentive for manufacturers to increase MPG by via improvements other than weight reduction (better engines and transmissions, lower drag, hybrids, etc).

Note that there's nothing in this approach that would arbitrarily ban ultra-high-performance 12-cylinder 5,000 pound S-class Mercedes, for example. As long as there was market demand for those heavy, fast machines, they'd still be built. The buyers would simply have to pay the piper.

paisan

Saw some cold AT questions back a few posts.

On the subaru trannys if the ATF is below 50 degrees F it will not shift into 4th gear, rather it will hold 3rd gear to heat up the fluid quicker. Once it reaches 50 degrees it should shift normally. Only way to "help" that is to heat up the car before leaving. Holding the brakes will not help it much.

-mike

once_for_all

on Subies in the Australian market, can we assume that the vehicles are the same as the US?

John

russski

I believe, that the only major technical difference between US and Australian models is that we are here supplied with dual range MT and, I think, you do not have self leveling suspension (please correct me if I'm wrong.)
Also, vehicle for Australian market tuned to take min Fuel Octane(RON ULP) of 91, because we do not have lower than 91 RON in Australia
 
Vitaly

ballistic

In addition to the dual-range transmission and self-leveling suspension that we in the USA cannot get, other markets also can get other nifty stuff, either standard or optional:

Optional HID lighting
Headlamp washers
Nice individual fold-down armrests in the inner front bolsters, instead of having to pay extra for the armrest extension that doesn't work as well
And probably a few others I've forgotten.

C'mon, Subaru - send us the good stuff, too.

ateixeira

I like JB's tier system, but I would allow vehicles with 2WD or 4WD about 2mpg in leeway.

-juice

m4eth

How does the quality and reliability of the Forester stack up to say Toyota products???

I have owned 6 Toyota products (normally keep up to 10-15 years) and they have been relatively trouble free...no major engine or transmission problems!!!...typical maintenance includes routine change of plugs, battery, muffler, timing belt, belts & hoses, flush and replace fluids, alternator, turn signal switch, blower fan motor, door wiring bundle after 14 years of use (180,000 miles)!!!. I would be interested in how many trouble free miles you can rack up on your Forester or what type of problems you can expect over a 10-15 year period?

Thanks,

Mike

ballistic

My expectation would be that within any of those tiers, a normal FWD or RWD sedan ought to easily be able to beat the stated minimum. The 4WD or AWD vehicles would merely be closer to the minimum than the others. I don't think that, by itself, would require a 'looser' scale for them.

Moreover, if I were dictator (there's a scary thought for everyone) those minimum-MPG floors would rise by (oh, let's say) 2% per year. The engineers would be forced to continually improve their fuel-consumption performance, or else their stuck-in-a-time-warp vehicles would slowly slip into the penalty categories.

russski

Please don't get peeved with this. It is probably because you up there have steering wheel on the wrong side :-)

zman

You got my vote. Can I even vote in your dictatorship?

Anyway, your system makes too much sense. Hey, I just connected to Subaru Crew. Wow, how many Subaru boards are there?

The Mudge

ballistic

don't get peeved

No worries, mate - you can peeve me all you want these days. I no longer have 16 long-range Polaris ballistic missiles, each with multiple independently-targetable thermonuclear warheads, to rain down on cities and military installations in your former motherland...

Zman - see, that's why I shouldn't be dictator.

lfdal

"A little revolution is a good thing" - Capt Ramius

russski

I see, the name is the only asset you have been left with
LOL

ballistic

Correct. A mere hollow, defenseless shell of my former self.

russski

If you ever change your mind and regroup - I'm on your side ! Always was and always will be.

subarusaleshou

however I just think the numbers are too extreme. They will only be passed along to the consumer and while FHI may have a fat enough checkbook to support it I don't. I'm sure numerous people are in the same situation. Based on your thesis the Forester XT I'd like to see my wife in as her next vehicle would suffer about a $5000 hit. At that I'd pass although at say $2000 I'd probably still keep it on the short list. Fortunately, I will probably have both her and myself in our next long term vehicles before anything like this goes into effect. Not knocking anything you've said, just tossing in the poor guy's viewpoint.

ballistic

Even if I were dictator, something like this would have to be phased in over at least a couple of years before it fully took effect. However, the whole point would be to change the price structure so that smaller, lighter, more fuel-efficient vehicles became dramatically more attractive to buyers than larger, heavier, gluttonous ones. It's the failure to do that which has led directly to the current obnoxious state of affairs, where pickups and SUVs account for a ridiculous slice of the market.

If we're ever going to get serious about reducing our highly-vulnerable dependence on unreliable and often hostile OPEC-type foreign sources, we simply have to do this. Either that, or leave everything as-is and instead double or triple the cost of fuel via heavy new excise taxes. We auto consumers have abundantly proved that we (or too many of us) won't behave responsibly unless our excesses bite us hard in the general region of our wallets.

p0926

Personally I think it'll take the equivalent of another 1970s Arab oil embargo before the American consumer (and therefore Washington) decides to do anything about the current system.

-Frank P.

Uh oh, veering off topic again. Well I'm personally feeling a small bit of guilt for trading down in the mpg department by getting the XT. Of course it goes away as soon as I depress the gas pedal :-)

ballistic

An interesting concept was floated, but never adopted, in the aftermath of the '70s OPEC oil shocks. Customized by me, it would go something like this:

Each year, the gummint would issue a fixed number of fuel-purchase allotment coupons to every registered voter - for maybe 200 gallons each year. Each coupon entitles the bearer to buy 1 gallon of fuel tax-free at (say) $1.00 per gallon, whereas without a coupon (and after heavy new taxes are adopted), a gallon would cost $3.00.

Low-income (or thrifty) people who select very-high-MPG cars and don't go hog-wild on their annual driving could get along without ever having to buy fuel at the full rate - in fact, they would buy at less than today's prices. 200 gallons x 40MPG = 8,000 miles. On the other hand, people who insist on driving fuel guzzlers aren't going to get far on 200 low-cost gallons (200 x 12MPG = only 2,400 miles), so they either pay $3 per gallon for everything beyond that or change their ways.

The coupons would be freely marketable, so people who can get by on even less than 200 gallons (poor people who ride mass transit mostly) can sell theirs on e-bay for whatever the market will bear (probably about $1.50 each), while obstinate heavy gas consumers will pay that to get more coupons to buy gas at a bit less ($1 + $1.5) than the full $3/gallon.

Result: People who already are, or voluntarily become, frugal fuel users meet their transport needs and maybe even supplement their low incomes, while the Neanderthal heavy users who refuse to evolve more-or-less-voluntarily pay substantially more in order to continue in their profligate ways. And that, I submit, is exactly how it should be.

Adopt a system like this, and watch overnight as the demand for Prius-type hybrids skyrockets, while Escalades, Expeditions, and Hummers find far fewer takers. And it all happens by simply changing the relative cost of owning and supporting a high-MPG vehicle compared to a guzzler.

p0926

Jack- A laudable plan but do I really need to tell you why it'll never happen?

-Frank P.

ballistic

Because if they made me dictator, I'd be shot within a week?

ballistic

Let me add that a poor couple who use mass transit exclusively (buying no fuel) could supplement their meager incomes to the tune of $6,000 (a signifiant sum) every year by selling all their coupons at market value on e-bay. This $6,000 would not come involuntarily from ordinary taxpayers, as welfare does, because it's not the gummint paying it. It would come from hollywood actresses and rockstars and other assorted fatcats with more money than brains, tooling around in their Lambos and Ferraris and S-class Mercedes and Hummers and Suburbans.

A near-perfect, voluntary, market solution to a number of pressing problems.

p0926

Jack- Which has the higher profit margin, the Prius or the Expedition? Need I say more? :-)

-Frank P.

ballistic

When you implement this program, demand for Expeditions shrinks, whereas demand for Prius's climbs. More (or less) demand is what determines how high or low profit margins would be. Selling prices of the Prius would be pushed up somewhat, while prices of Expeditions would fall quite a bit. Margins thus self-adjust, driven purely by changing market demand. Manufacturers would swiftly adjust their mix of products to maximize their profits (as they should). Voila - many more Prius's, matching the increased number of smart buyers who want them, and fewer Sherman tanks for the remaining Neanderthals.

It's pure Econ 101.

sierratrip

Just took my '02 Forester in to the dealer because the brakes were "chirping" the sound I associate with wear and meaning possible pad replacement time. Since I'm still under the 3 year 36k miles so it's a warranty item and no cost. When I picked up the car the tech had "inspected, found rear brakes squeaking, deglazed, cleaned and adjusted". I wasn't aware that anything could be "adjusted" on disc brakes. When driving home I now have an intermittent squeaking!

I won't be going back to this dealer. I only did because it's about 20 miles closer than the one I really like and since they had the car for 6 hours I could get shuttled back home.

Any advice on what I should tell my regular dealer or expect them to do to eleminate this problem? Has anyone else had a similar problem and if so what was the cause/solution? My '02 Forester L is an auto with 29,000 miles.

Thanks for the help!

Donn

njswamplands

we always appreciate long winded arguments like the CAFE one.

p0926

Jack- But from Detroit's perspective, there's no incentive to mess with the status quo.

That's Human Nature or Coporate Greed 101 (your pick) :-)

-Frank P

bbthomas

"could supplement their meager incomes to the tune of $6,000"

er... extra zero in there. Would omly be $600 (200 gal. x $3)

BT

mtngal

what about those of us that can't afford rents within 20 miles of work (at least in a neighborhood where you don't have to dodge bullets nightly)? And who can barely afford a mortgage within 75 miles of work (regardless of the neighborhood)? And where there is no public transportation of any type available within 50 miles, and then only 1 bus line that actually goes somewhat close to where they work? So then not only would I be unable to live near work, I'd be unable to afford to get there, even if I do drive a vehicle that gets reasonable mileage!

ballistic

dnestr

Just read the heart-to-heart talk between Jack and Vitaly a few posts above.

I heard an opinion that the right hand steering assures a better safety than in the case of the left side. Most of people in the world are "right-handled" but they drive vehicles steering by only one hand, the left mainly if it refers to the US, Canada, Europe or Russia. The drivers usually use the right hand for other purposes as switching FM, eating, gesticulating, etc. The right hand on the steering wheel is able to react on the road situation faster than the left does. It follows that Japanese, British and Australian drivers possess an advantage over other ones.

Strike hands.

m4eth

How does the quality and reliability of the Forester stack up to say Toyota products???

I have owned 6 Toyota products (normally keep up to 10-15 years) and they have been relatively trouble free...no major engine or transmission problems!!!...typical maintenance includes routine change of plugs, battery, muffler, timing belt, belts & hoses, flush and replace fluids, alternator, turn signal switch, blower fan motor, door wiring bundle after 14 years of use (180,000 miles)!!!. I would be interested in how many trouble free miles you can rack up on your Forester or what type of problems you can expect over a 10-15 year period?

Thanks,

Mike

p0926

Mike- Hey we're not intentionally ignoring you, we’re just busy being off topic :-)

I think that Subaru is a step below Toyota in the quality and reliability depts so if you want the absolutely most bulletproof ride you can get then Toyota is probably the better choice. Having said that, Subaru is still above the industry avg in those areas and Consumer Reports lists every Subaru as a recommended buy. As far as how many trouble-free miles you can rack up, I'm not the best one to answer that since I traded in my 01 Forester at the 60k mark but I never had a problem.

Treading on thin ice here but I think that "generally" speaking, the typical Toyota buyer and Subaru buyer have different personalities and priorities. I bought a Forester because I place a higher value on performance and safety and was attracted to the brand on an emotional level also (trying to avoid stereotypes here). Were quality and reliability my over-riding concerns I would probably have gone with a Toyota or Honda.

-Frank P.

FrankMc

For example you may know that a 1989 Toyota was terrific and nothing broke in it, but that doesn't mean that the 2004 Toyota will do the same thing. <Although the brands reputation is impressive>. The Forester hasn't been around 15 years, but it is based on the Impreza that has been around 10 years and has been very reliable. I have a 1995 Impreza that has had one $30 sensor replaced in the 9+ years and 85,000 miles I have owned it. I would think that Subaru is right up there with Toyota but like the other Frank, if I had to rank them I would put Toyota ever so slightly ahead.

Frank

akasrp

Hey Mike,
I have owned Honda & Toyota since the 80s. 78 Accord was very good and my 87 Accord was incredibly reliable and problem free. 97 Camry is right up there.
My sister in Maine has been buying Subarus exclusively for over those 20+ years. They (she + husband & two kids) have racked over 200K on several (one almost to 300) and currently have two close to that. She even buys them used (gasp!). Her take is that they will run forever with minimal maintenance - none of her 6 or 7 has given her any major problems - while conceding that they are not as quiet or refined as the Toyota-Honda Axis. She has no intention of buying anything but another Sube.
Big part of the reason I have a Forester in my garage.

-srp

ballistic

drivers usually use the right hand for other purposes as switching FM, eating, gesticulating, etc.

As with most things, it's a question of priorities. After all, which is really most important - quickest response to road situations, or lightning-fast gesticulations?

Obviously, the latter.

dnestr

Glad, you're in a cheerful mood today.

ballistic

It's still very early out west. Plenty of time for me to turn sour.

ballistic

er... extra zero in there

What...you expect math accuracy from a CPA? Sheesh.

dnestr

Hmm.. Portland, Oregon? Have you gotten skiing? Guess it was a good chance to test the Forester on snow/ice.

ateixeira

Plenty of time for me to turn sour

I'm sure you won't let us down. ;-)

One revision to your idea, which I like, is to use the GVWR instead of just curb weight, because that also takes into account payload. That would cut minivans some slack.

Mike: trouble-free? That's luck of the draw. Just read yesterday that in JD Power's 5 year dependability study, the industry average is more than 2.7 problems per car. Toyota beats the average, so does Subaru, but noone should expect a perfect car. Even Lexus is at 1+ problems per car, so you should expect at least one problem even with a Lexus.

Noone is perfect, noone. You've just been lucky in the past. My advice? Keep that 4 leaf clover and that rabbit tail you have already.

Donn: if it's quiet, I would not worry. If it ain't broke...

-juice

ballistic

Hmm.. Portland, Oregon? Have you gotten skiing? Guess it was a good chance to test the Forester on snow/ice.

That it was - and without even needing to drive to the mountain! We had so much snow down here in the city that I amused myself watching other cars and SUVs "go skiing" on it while my trusty Forester just hunkered down and plowed through it.

oregonboy

Juice, what the heck is a "NOONE" This has been bugging me for some time now. Is this an internet thing to omit the space between "no" and "one"?

Anyone is one word. No one is two words. Try the spell check and see what you get.

There, I feel better. I'll go away now.

james

ballistic

use the GVWR instead of just curb weight, because that also takes into account payload. That would cut minivans some slack.

Excellent. Anything that biases the scheme to encourage more-efficient vehicle categories over less-efficient ones is wholly consistent with my vision. You wanna be my Energy Czar when they make me dictator?