Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

mrluther

Hello all! I just wanted to drop a line and let all the Forester people know how my 2002 L 5Sp is doing.
I am avging around 24 mpg in my daily driving with the roof bars on. The clutch in this car continues to be its biggest downfall, crapppy. Shudders like a green bay packers fan. The car still makes a loud popping sound in between shifts and can be tough to get in reverse.The paint job has really taken a beating. Dont park on the street in lower NYC!!! All in all I think I will buy another Forester when this one finally pisses me off enough. Next one will be a XT
   When I replaced the stock tires I ended up going with Michelin Harmony in the stock size. Not bad but pricey at Town Fair Tire in CT.
 Have a safe and happy Holiday everyone, Mike

c_hunter

Have you tried to get the clutch serviced under warranty?? There is a TSB on this:

http://members.cox.net/craig.hunter/03-51-02R.pdf

The fix is new as of January 03 or so. Even though you are past the 3/36 warranty, Subaru may cover this repair if you call the 1-800 number and talk nicely with them! First step would be to see what the dealer says.

Craig

gouldn

Does anybody on this forum have any insight onto how these cars last when they get to 100K+? I'm trying to decide whether to trade mine in soon (75-80K), or keep it until 125K or so.

ateixeira

Kate is well over 100k. And we saw one on E-bay with something like 270k miles on it.

But they've only been around since 1998 so there aren't too many of those hi milers.

-juice

leo2633

I have almost 105,000 miles on my 2001 Forester S 5 speed as of today. It's running fine now. The last major problem I had was the catalytic converter about 10K ago. A bunch of problems before that. Most were fixed under warranty (including the head gasket repair after the warranty had actually expired), but also a few out-of-pocket (wheel bearings and a clutch). However, it is running better now than ever (knock on wood!). I fully expect to go 200K plus, and hopefully, with not too much more $$ for repairs. And I'd almost certainly buy another Forester if I was in the market today.

Len

4mygrey

I've only had my XT a couple weeks and I'm mostly loving it. A couple questions...

I was reading in the book that it says to always use the parking break when parking. (I have an automatic.) Is this just an extreme precautionary thing that no one really does that is actually written in every manual for every car (but no one realizes it), or do people actually do this? Is there something about subarus that I don't know--some reason I should actually be using the break?

We moved the front cross bar back a bit so it doesn't block the moon roof view....is this bad? Would it increase wind noise, to have them closer together?

Finally, somewhere else (e-pinions.com?) I read someone complaining about crush washers--having to replace them with new ones after changing the oil. I get my oil changed locally as Subaru is an hour away. I go to Precision Tune and have been going there for a few years, I know them well and I think they treat me well. I would not put them on par with a quickie-oil place. Would they have these crush washers? Or should I get some from the dealer? The person who wrote this suggested that quickie places would just crank the old ones back on and ruin the threads or something (it's probably obvious that I don't really know what I'm talking about here...Please help me understand...)

crashton6

I've had my XT for 2 days, but I've been driving a Forester for 5 years. Subaru had a recall on their transmissions a while ago. Not for the XT though. It was for the park pin. That's all that holds your car when it's in park. The pin isn't very substantial & using just it to hold the weight of your car or any car is asking a lot. The other reason to use the parking brake is so it doesn't seize up from lack of use. Yes it will happen.

I took my cross bars off of my XT. To me it looks better without them. Moving yours shouldn't be a problem. As for noise just listen. If it makes any just try moving them a bit.

If it was me yes I'd buy some crush washers & keep them in the glove compartment for those trips to the oil change emporium. If the crush washer is reused it may drip a bit, but it's unlikely to leak a lot.

Good luck with your new XT.

Chuck

mjsnd80

My '03 XS 5-speed (58,500) has the annoying rap-rap-rap/click-click-click at start-up; also known as PISTON SLAP. it goes away after 5-10 minutes.

Very annoying; plus I can't help but think it's doing internal damage to the engine guts.

Have taken it to the dealer numerous times, left it overnight and let them listen to it at morning start-up. They say it's "normal" -- even though only some of the cars make the noise.

Anyway.... I met with the Regional Service manager from Subaru of America last Friday morning. He listened, spoke softly to the dealer Servive Manager; and said "Let's bring her in."

That was it. I didn't have to go over the Internet documents I've been printing; no arguments... He could not have been nicer about the whole thing!

The car went in today (about 1,500 miles short of the Powertrain Warranty) and will be in a few days while they tear the engine down and build it back.

THANK YOU to the many folks here who have read and responded over that past several months. I will let you know how it goes - and the results.

c_hunter

Yes, always use the parking brake, especially on hills -- you don't want all the weight of the car pegging on the tranny.

If you are after minimum noise, take the crossbars all the way off. Because of the way the side rails taper front to back, I don't think you can get them really close unless they are both near the middle of the car.

I think the crush washers are important, both for sealing and for protecting the threads.

Note that the factory crush washer is painted on to the plug, and many inexperienced DIY'ers and shops don't notice it's even there!! SO be sure your shop properly removes the old washer and puts a new one on during the first oil change.

Craig

troop2shos

I would refrain from using the parking brake with any moisture present in below freezing conditions.

once_for_all

That's good news that SOA is standing by their product, one of the reasons that I bought and will likely stay Subaru.

I posted a while back about one morning of horrendous piston slap, and now I need to confess my error. The engine has not done it since, and I now think the noise was a shorted spark plug wire due to me cleaning out the engine compartment the day before. No such noise when I started it after cleaning, so why it would short the following morning is still a mystery.

John

tazereli

I've been using parking brakes in every car I've ever driven or owned. I would use it regardless of weather conditions. The power of the engine should easily overcome what little ice may form between the pads and disc/drum.

The following is my parking procedure following any time I park an auto tranny car. This is all after the car is in the space I want it.

1. Hold down brake pedal
2. Turn wheels towards curb (if applicable)
3. Pull up on handbrake or push in parking brake pedal.
4. Put gear lever in Park.
5. Release brake pedal.

Very simple and I have never had a car roll on me.

The following is how I park a manual tranny car.

1. Hold down brake pedal and clutch
2. Turn wheels towards curb (if applicable)
3. Pull up on handbrake. If car is equiped with parking brake pedal make sure tranny is in neutral, release clutch while still holding down brake pedal and depress parking brake pedal.
4. Put gear lever in 1st or Reverse.
5. Release brake pedal and clutch.

Again very simple and with a spotless parking record. Parking brakes should be used just like breathing, all the time.

Regards,
Kyle

crashton6

Good call! Frozen brakes are no fun at all. :-0

Edit > It's not the pads that freeze to the rotors it's the shoes in the parking brake drums, or the cables that run between the lever & the park brakes.

The only time I don't use them is when it's raining & going to drop below freezing. Normally even in winter I'll use them.

edunnett

Sorry for the late response chipchipowski - I AM happy with my '04 Forester XT automatic - silver - with aftermarket window tint, splash guards, acrylic hood deflector. Has 9K miles on it, not a single blemish or mis-hap. Has the usual Subie quirks that new Subie owners sometimes note (slight vibration at idle, bit of a sticky shifting in the automatic between 1st and 2nd, had some wind noise from the drivers window that the dealer resolved with an adjustment, hate the auto climate control...). But it seems to be a solid car, fun to drive.

edunnett

The 80K mile "major emissions" warranty that covers the Cat is mandated by the EPA, so is not state to state. Some states (like CA) might have add'l emissions related warranties mandated however. Like in CA I think you're covered somehow if you fail a state emissions test within so many miles. Elissa

alan_g

I'm noticing a burning smell when my car is stopped with the fan on - smells like burning rubber. When I get out of the car, the smell seems to be coming from the radiator area. The coolant level appears full. I just noticed this smell after I had the car serviced a month ago. The shop just changed the oil & filter and did some inspections for the 15k service. Any thoughts?

ateixeira

They might have spilled some fluids on the engine block or on hot exhaust parts. You might want to have the engine by steam-cleaned.

If all the fluid levels are OK, that's probably all it is.

-juice

edunnett

I've had a couple different burning smells from my subies. In addition to what juice mentioned, you MAY have some CV joint grease leaking from your joints onto your exhaust. I had this happen on my '01 Forester and started to notice a burning smell while driving on very long trips. I looked under the car during an oil change and noticed the seepage onto the pipes. Dealer confirmed and replaced the joint. It smelled like burning - not sweet antifreeze; not brakes or clutch; possibly like burning oil but not as pungent as burning bubber.

mjsnd80

Picked up my 03 XS 5-speed at close of business today. Subaru fixed it under the 60M powertrain warranty (I have 58,500 on the car... and we've been reviewing the problem since last spring.)

 

The work took four full days; and basically entailed an engine rebuild, with new cyl liners and new #2 and #4 pistons. The updated pistons have a Teflon coating to help them move more freely while they reach full operating temperature. Don't know if these upgraded pistons are used in the '05 engines...

 

I cannot say enough about the high quality service at Patriot Subaru in Saco, ME; and their Service Manager Mark Stevens. He is the polar opposite of the awful, despicable service manager at Maine Mall Motors. (I wouldn't go back there on a bet!)

 

All in all, I was frankly surprised that Subaru did the whole job; and did it as well as they did. I was basically expecting them to say "sucks to be you..." but was excited when the Regional Service Rep immediately authorized the repairs to correct the Piston Slap problem. No arguments, documents or anything else needed.

 

And one week later - it's all squared away. A great Subaru experience!

psfod3

As I have already posted I find the seat fabric on my 03 Forester x to be very coarse. To make it worse I find the seat cushion way to firm on the front seats. The foam used on the rear seat cushions seems much softer. I am looking for front seat covers that are softer then the fabric on the seats. All the ones I see in local stores like Target or Pep Boys do not take into account the side airbags. Does anyone know any sites I can look at or stores I can go to. I am also not sure whether the custom seat covers I have seen on web sites go over the fabric on the seats or if it replaces it. If you replace the seat cloth I guess I would have to have the dealer do it as I am sure the whole seat needs to be removed. I would appreciate any insight on this. Thanks

mnf

Look in the yellow pages for a seat cover dealer that deals in CUSTOM seat covers. I had a set put on my Honda a few years back and they were great you may pay more but you get what you want

 

Good luck.. Matt

bkaiser1

Wet Okole (.com) makes side airbag-compatible seat covers, as well as leatherseats.com.

 

Brian

jopopsy

From Edmunds:

 

"This year, the base engine picks up electronic throttle control and this, along with a new automatic transmission, should make it feel more responsive."

 

Anybody know anything more about this? The technicals, the real world results, etc.?

 

Jopopsy

saxy

I've here to get the best price one should be at or close to the invoice price for the vehicle with its options and then kick in the rebate which now stands at $2k. The price for most options online do not include installation so how does this figure in?

 

I'm being quoted around 20,900 after taxes for for an X with automatic and no frills whatsover other than some floor mats and splash guards. Seems a bit high- sales taxes are high here at 3.4% though on new cars which is about $600 I think. Unfortuantely the interest is going to be hiked again Tuesday when the Feds meet so it would behoove me to decide soon I think.

 

Any thoughts on getting a better price other than just demanding it?

deraa

wife and I have a '04 XT w/ leather. We're expecting our first and purchased a baby seat that is equipped with the LATCH system. The Subaru comes with LATCH anchors for the outboard seating positions. Can the two inboard anchors be used to attach the baby seat so the seat is in the middle of the car? I don't see a technical reason not to do so. The seat attaches fine, even though the anchors are a couple of inches further apart.

 

thanks!

jopopsy

How does the seat fit back there generally? Is there any room at all back there? Can the seat be placed in such a manner that would allow you to fold down one side in case you needed cargo room w/o removing the seat?

 

Back seat size is a big issue for me and one of the biggest reasons the Forester is on the bottom of my shopping list ATM ....

 

????

deraa

if the baby seat were put in one of the outboard positions, then the other side of the seat could still be dropped. But they say, middle is the best position.

 

if the LATCH system can be used, taking the seat out and re-installing is very simple. Using the lap/shoulder belts is more involved.

bluesubie

That's great! It's nice to hear good dealer stories.

 

-Dennis

saxy

It seems there have been more problems with the manual trans than the auto, but I do like the bit of extra power with the manual-- though with all the stop and go driving I do I'm still leaning for the auto trans - any other issues to consider other than the power and slightly less mileage?

ateixeira

The auto is easier if you tow or off road, because you'd have better control.

 

Mileage is almost the same, 22/30 vs. 23/30.

 

Easier to re-sell later on.

 

That's about it.

 

-juice

Donluce

What would be the advantages going to 225/60/16?

 

(1) Better cornering?

(2) Better mpg?

(3) Better and smoother ride?

(4) Quieter, less road noise?

(5) Shorter stopping distance?

(6) More fun to drive?

(7) Better traction on wet road?

(8) Longer tire wear, since XT weight spread over wider tire tread?

Any others? I am planning no off roading.

 

Thanks,

 

Don Luce

mpgman

I'm negotiating for roughly the same car although I want after market leather, the nets, the tray, splash guards and a trailer hitch for the bike attachment. My dealer is at $17,388 in print for the X automatic with nothing else and is working up the cost of the options. 16,988 if you qualify as a recent college grad. I think you can do better.

beanboy

It is either 2K off or 1.9%... Though add 2K to 17.6 and you still come out a little ahead of invoice for a X with automatic. GF is looking at one actually.

 

-B

05 LGT

once_for_all

for my '03 XS was quoted at $510 from the local dealer, which includes all filters, fluids, rotate tires, spark plugs, and 68 point inspection.

 

Honestly, I would do this myself if I didn't have all of it saved up with Subaru Bucks. Is this a normal cost for the 30k from your local dealers?

 

John

ateixeira

Service costs are high here, so to me that sounds about right. They may be doing more than is necessary, the plugs for instance.

 

Don: I have that size tire. I'll try to answer the questions.

 

(1) Better cornering? maybe marginally, but wider contact patch may be offset by taller sidewall.

 

(2) Better mpg? gearing is just barely taller, but your speedo/odometer will read low. So yes, a tiny bit, but you won't notice it because you will actually travel more than the miles indicated.

 

(3) Better and smoother ride? I think so, you have a taller sidewall for more compliance.

 

(4) Quieter, less road noise? No, 10mm wider so there is more wind resistance and possibly more rolling resistance.

 

(5) Shorter stopping distance? Same.

 

(6) More fun to drive? I think it looks cooler and fills up the wheel wells more. I don't think is makes a noticeable difference in this category.

 

(7) Better traction on wet road? Not really, a wider tire will actually hydroplane sooner. But it is better on sand or mud, where a wider tire will float and a narrow one would sink.

 

(8) Longer tire wear, since XT weight spread over wider tire tread? Marginal improvement is possible, they also carry a higher load rating.

 

What else? You get a tiny bit more ground clearance, but we're talking about 6mm, or about 1/4".

 

Get 5 new tires so your spare matches. I should have done that, but I was getting new alloys and that would've made the price beyond my budget at the time.

 

-juice

eps105

John,

 

$510 sounds WAY high. Check out my posting from the Care and Mtce. board from last month:

 

eps105, "Subaru Crew: Care & Maintenance" #8976, 13 Nov 2004 9:42 pm

 

Typical price from a Subie dealer is probably closer to $400. Fair price should be closer to $350. For $510, either your dealer is ripping you off or including extra services that are not required by Subaru.

 

Note, that if the $510 includes transmission fluid flush and change, then it is closer to a fair price, as I recommend that the fluid be changed at 30K rather than just checked, based on my previous experience.

[Edit] Juice beat me to respond to your post -- Note, Juice, that spark plug change on the XS is required at 30K. They are not platinum.

 

Elliot

c_hunter

Way too much!! It involves less than $100 in parts and fluids, and most of it is DIY work. Save your Subaru Bucks for something better!

 

You can try to nail them down to doing only what the manual calls for and see if the price drops any. Most of the dealers try to pad their service events to make more money.

 

If Subarus really cost that much money to maintain for the forst 30K miles, then nobody would buy them!!

 

Craig

c_hunter

Just to give perspective to Elliot's advice -- when I did the 30K service on my 02 Outback, the trans, coolant, and brake fluid all looked good and the car had been running fine. I did change the coolant but would not do it again since (in retrospect) it was in excellent shape. The brake fluid also looked great, but I did replace the fluid in the reservoir (the turkey baster method). Transmission fluid was clear and smelled fine, so I left it alone.

 

Craig

once_for_all

agreed, it does seem high. But, I would need to find about 6 hrs time, and the required 30k spark plug change isn't on my list of lifetime experiences.

 

I guess mainly, is the "good will" of letting the dealer do it going to lead to less warranty hassle down the road? Objectively, it shouldn't, but having a good relationship with the dealer might curry favor.

 

John

mark04

Hey everyone,

I have a 2004 Forester XS w/ premium pkg with about 6,000 miles on it. I noticed some pinging that happens sporadically during acceleration, especially when I'm going uphill. When the car is idling, I can also feel vibration in the driver's seat that is driving me crazy. If I turn the A/C on or off there is usually a temporary lull in the vibration, then it kicks in again.

 

Took it to a dealer and they did a test drive with me, able to recreate both problems. When I got the car back they said they had fixed both problems. Told me to be consistent in using quality gas, and suggested that maybe the different driving styles of my husband and myself "confused" the computer. Well, both problems are still there.

 

Here's the thing-- I chose a Forester X as my rental while they were looking at my car. The rental did the same exact things!

 

Are these just Forester quirks that I should learn to love? TIA for any feedback or suggestions.

psfod3

I have a 03 Forester X with 65,000 miles on it. It has had a slight ping on acceleration since day one. I only use Mobil or Exxon premium. I also noticed occasional vibreation in the lower part of the seat back usally in the summer with the ac on. I think this has to due with how the computer sets the idle. If you take it out of drive the rpms raise a drop and it goes away. I fully think that almost all 03 Foreters do this and it is just the way it is. AS I put over 60,000 miles on in two years and the engine is running great I dont really think this will be a problem.

samiam_68

This is typical of the 2.5 liter Subaru engine. If it's not severe, I wouldn't worry about it.

c_hunter

Don't feel obligated to pay the dealer's high prices to build good will. You should get fair treatment from *any* dealer, regardless of who you use for servicing and how much business you give them.

 

I hate to say it, but many dealer service departments are shady in one way or another. There's almost no point trying to build goodwill with these guys unless you know them personally and trust their work 100%.

 

Craig

Donluce

Just got a HP Laptop computer. Are there any programs that I can use to make into a it a Nav System?

 

Thanks

 

Don Luce

kev_xt_owner

I also purchased a laptop computer early this year. If you're looking for a program that gives voice direction and updates automatically based on wrong turns, check out Garmin's GPS 18 Deluxe package deal. For less than $130 it comes with a USB GPS and software; you must use the GPS unit that comes with the software.

 

If you just want a program that gives directions and plots your position on a map, check out Microsoft's Streets & Trips. The software does not use your position to update directions, etc.

 

I have both (Streets and Trips is 2003 version). The biggest problem with Garmin's software (nRoute/City Select North America) is that it's not as intuitive in finding addresses that you enter "mostly" correct. Sometimes I have to use Streets & Trips to find an address and then manually find the location on nRoute. With my version of Streets and Trips, you cannot use the GPS unit that came with the Garmin software.

 

I also installed a feed into my head unit's Auxiliary input so that the my car stereo can take the laptop's headphone output and play it over the stereo (it overlaps whatever else is playing). All you need is the 13 pin DIN plug, a 3.5mm stereo plug-to-RCA cable, and the time to connect them electrically.

 

Kevin

jopopsy

I posted this question before but I haven't gotten a response; I thought I might try again. Anybody have any feedback/info on this statement off of Edmunds for the 05 Forrester?

 

"This year, the base engine picks up electronic throttle control and this, along with a new automatic transmission, should make it feel more responsive."

 

Electronic throttle -- Is that similar to Honda's Drive-by-Wire technology? Also, what's up w/ the 'new' auto tranny?

 

Jopopsy

c_hunter

It is drive-by-wire. They can then couple the throttle and transmission easier, for all sorts of benefits (for instance, smoothing out shifts). The electronic throttle also gives better gas mileage as it will not allow you to "floor" it when there is no benefit.

 

Craig

mark04

Thanks guys, you're the best.

once_for_all

Craig, thanks again for your advice. I have decided to save my Subaru Bucks for tires, brakes, parts etc.

 

I did find out that their $510 fee includes wheel balancing, engine steam cleaning, and a "free" car wash. But, I am sure it does not include Mobil 1 on the oil change.

 

John

p0926

My 01 Forester S occasionally pinged when accelerating uphill (also from day-1). Just a few pings won't hurt so unless they get worse in frequency or severity I wouldn't worry about it. But if you really want to make them stop you need to use a mid-grade gas (89 octane). The vibration at idle is indeed a trademark of the 2.5 boxer engine so there's nothing you can do about that.

 

-Frank