Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

tincup47

He must have posted that in at least a dozen topics, and while I don't fault his choice, his info was factually flawed.

kate5000

I'm always suspicious of the posts that promote something (even if product is really good indeed) AND being posted in many topics. Then it's fishy. Smells like poor marketing. I doubt SOA will use these tactics... some dealer?

I saw that it in one topic only and this why I thought it's legit.

pattim3

We (SOA) would most defintely not sanction a "plant" post. I can't say that a dealer wouldn't because I don't know.....but they shouldn't either.

Thanks!

Patti

eagleboy

my wife has fallen in love with the Forester. can anyone give me some feedback on pricing for a Forester S - Premium ? thanks.

scirocco22

Hi brad-- I just purchased an S premium last week. If you haven't already looked it up, the Edmunds TMV on a Premium is $700 over invoice for an automatic and $678 over for manual. Carsdirect.com is pricing them at $490 over invoice for either an automatic or manual. Having purchased two new cars this year, I've found that negotiating with a dealer individually is the most cost effective way to go. I've tried numerous buying services and brokers and none have been able to beat negotiating directly with a dealership ...afterall, I guess it just makes sense; why pay a middleman. So with that said and depending on which region you are located, IMO, you shouldn't under any circumstances pay over the Edmunds TMV or for that matter, the Carsdirect.com price. I paid right around invoice through a fair amount of negotiation over the phone and by e-mail; never once going to the dealership until finally picking up the car. I don't really care to negotiate with the dealer on their own turf ...it puts them at a slight advantage. I've heard that in some parts of the country that they're selling Foresters for as much as $200 or $300 under invoice. As you may know, there's a 3% (on MSRP) holdback so on a Premium that's over $700 that the dealer is still working with.

If you need any more information on my purchasing experience, let me know... good luck!

--'rocco

scirocco22

I want to again thank everyone who responded to my initial questions last week right after I picked up my Forester. The only question that nobody addressed was the one about the drivetrain lash. Since then, thanks to Ken S., I've found in the acrhives at Club VMag that drivetrain lash is quite common on Subarus. I'm disappointed but now I know that it's not just happening on my car ...and I'll just have to learn to live with it. I'm now compiling a bunch of other questions about the Forester so I'll continue to post here for awhile longer ...I know I've irritated juice in the past but it appears that I've chased him away entirely now! *lol*

--'rocco

kate5000

Juice is on vacation actually. I personally respect his opinion, and his automotive knowledge is really amazing. It's good to have such knowledgeable people around on this forum.

secretariat

Well, my old chevy cavalier wagon breathed its last this week during our heat wave. Now, I find myself looking to buy a new car a year earlier than anticipated. I live in the country in Central New York so I need a car that handles the snow well and yet is easy to handle and maintain. I do a lot of camping and tend to haul quite a bit in the car so I definitely need a wagon or small SUV that is easy to get in and out of. However, I really don't want to spend anymore than $24,000 or so.

I have gotten various responses from friends both pro and con on the Subaru Forester and Subaru Legacy wagons. I was seriously considering a Mazda Tribute/Ford Escape but it seems these cars have some serious first year woes. I also considered the Hyundai Santa Fe but they are practically impossible to get and I can't wait several months.

So, could anyone let me know how their 2001 Foresters have been doing and whether this car could be what I want. Any problems that have cropped up? How does it handle in heavy snow? Is it capable of towing a 14 foot boat or a small pop-up trailer?

Thanks for any advice you care to offer.

subearu

(the following is merely an non-professional and non-technical observation by me!)


There is an inherent amount of slack or lash with almost any AWD or 4WD vehicle. The drivetrain is operating all 4 wheels compared to just 2 on FWD or RWD vehicles. It does seem strange at first, especially when coming from a non AWD/4WD vehicle. But, from what I know, it is a normal feeling.


http://www.howstuffworks.com has some interesting articles on 4wd and differentials and such. There might be some information there that has a better 'technical' answer.


-Brian

suvshopper4

Subarus have been valve lash-ing for many years - and many thousands of miles. It seems to be charactereristic of the make, and appears to have no detrimental effect whatever on the cars, which are far above the average in reliability and long life.
ejp

drew_

You may wish to reconsider the Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute after you see this:

http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0105.htm


http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/98018.htm



Have you considered the Subaru Outback H6 wagons? Those may be more optimal than the Forester if you do plan to tow more often.


Drew
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ron3805

Maybe I should buy a "CARS FOR DUMMIES" book, but what is drivetrain lash? I have a new 2001 Forester (8000 miles with manual) and haven't noticed that is drives differently than any other vehicle that I have owned.
Is there a factory recall that will install drivetrain lash?

originalbitman

Eric - what is the valve lash you are referring to?

bit

kens

Patricia,

The Forester has been around for five model years now so I'm pretty confident the minor bugs have been worked out. The Forester is a very well balanced vehicle that is great for a wide range of activities. Note that towing is rated at 2000lbs with a braked trailer.

All Subarus handle the snow extremely well. I've taken my Forester through some conditions where the snow was at least 1ft deep. Subarus have always been known for their AWD so you won't be disappointed when the lake-effect snow hits you.

You may also want to consider a Legacy Wagon. Price-wise it'll be about the same as a mid-upper level Forester. While the Legacy has slighly less ground clearance than the Forester, it has more cargo and passenger space.

Ken

suvshopper4

Mike - originalbitman, #2164: Valve lash is the chattering sound made by the upper engine (head), coming from the valves. On most cars in previous years, it was called a "valve tap" and indicated that valve adjustment was needed. I've heard it on a number of previous Subaru models owned by a family member and several friends, and it never caused any problems - they all got long life out of their cars. I chalked up the sound as being just the way Subaru designed their engines. Apparently, scirocco22 is hearing what he called "drivetrain lash" from his new Forester, and found some support (post #2157) for this condition not being uncommon from a publication and Ken S. It made me remember the sound I heard from Subarus, even when they were idling, which I took to be valve lash.
ejp

rsunico

I have a 2001 Forester 3 months old with 3900 miles. Today it took 3 cranks to start (it would not turn over). Has anyone experienced this problem w/ their Forester. We went from 100 degrees and sticky to 75 degrees and rainy/damp in NY.

scirocco22

Kate-- Please don't misunderstand what I said. I too believe that Juice is the most knowledgeable poster on these forums and I also respect his opinions greatly. I've learned so much from reading his posts both here and at i-club. Although I've only been posting at Edmunds since March (on the Audi board), I've been reading the forums here for more than a year and can point to Juice for the one behind convincing me to even consider purchasing a Subaru ...I mean, this man loves Subarus!! With that said, he has seldom addressed me personally in his posts and when he does, I get the feeling that it is with much irritation. I get the feeling that both he and some of the other regulars here on this Forester forum resent my posting so often because maybe I come across like a know-it-all. I've been criticized and put-in-my-place several times over on the A4 board but also have developed some pretty substantial friendships there too. I know that sometimes I might appear to over-bearing or cocky but I certainly don't mean to be. So my comment in the previous post was a joke in that I hope I wasn't becoming so irritating as to chase Juice away entirely *laughs* ...may he have a happy and well deserved vacation!


Patricia-- I too was considering the Escape/Tribute but the 'first year Ford syndrome' definitely scared me away too. I love their looks but the long-term reliability of the Forester had to win out. I'm not the one to answer your questions because I've only had mine for a week but I think that the responses you'll get will be all affirmative to your questions. And if you've read those links that Drew posted, man, that'll have to convince you to stay away from the Tribscapes for now ...yikes!!


Brian, Eric, Ron, et al-- No, I was referring to drivetrain lash: the irritating lurching or bucking that occurs when you let up off the accelerator or press back down on the accelerator when in gear while driving down the road. As I've stated before, I've experienced this on many of the less expensive cars I've owned which have had both FWD and RWD. It's not exclusively an AWD problem for the Audi A4 quattro (awd) I own is as smooth as silk when letting off the accelerator or reapplying power ...so were the several Toyota pick-ups that I've had while engaged in 4WD. The Forester owners that I've talked to in person all seem to have it and it definitely seems more prevalent in manual transmission models. Now why the Forester has this "slop" in the drivetrain and not the Legacy/Outback is an interesting question but I've noticed from reading many posts over at i-club that all Impreza owners, including WRX owners, are experiencing it too. So I guess it's just an engineering anomaly that we'll all just have to live with *whimpers loudly* ...here's the link from the Club VMag archive where Forester owners discussed it: Click here


Brian-- That's an interesting site! Thanx for the link!


Ken-- Thanks again for those HTML tags... I'm having fun playing with 'em! *smirks*


--'rocco

subearu

'rocco: ah, that 'lash'. do you have an AT or MT?

I'll take a shot at explaining what I think that 'lash' is. Yes, it's normal. It feels like that not just because of the AWD, but (at least with the AT) also the lock-up of the torque converter. So, say you're going 40mph and you let off of the gas and then press it again. The tranny most of the time will stay in the current gear (most likely OD). The torque converter is 'locked', so it doesn't have to slip to take the increase in power, so you'll feel it 'lash'. (hopefully someone with a more technical answer will chime in)

Our Sube is an Outback, and I have felt this every once a while - so it isn't just a Forester thing.

I think it's like driving a manual tranny of any type of vehicle, especially in 4th or 5th gear. Since a MT doesn't have a torque converter to take the increase of power (or decrease), you get the same effect when you step off/on the pedal. It's just inherent to the design and is easier to feel in a 4wd or AWD vehicle.

rsunico: do you mean it would turn over, but not start? we had the same weather change here on Thursday evening (96 degress to 70 after the storms went through). Both of our vehicles were fine. Has it run fine since then? If the CE light came on, the dealer would be able to check the codes to help determine why it happened. If not, it could be a loose or wet spark plug wire, water in fuel, loose vacuum hose, etc. I don't believe it's a common occurance. Check out the Subaru Crew topics - you may get some additional responses that could help you out.

-Brian

kens

'rocco,

Hey, looks like you're getting the hang of using HTML tags. Very cool.

Maybe one reason why there is drivetrain lash on the MT Subies is that they use a viscous coupling vs. a torsen differential like on the Audis. Maybe the lack of a hard mechanical connection between the front and rear axles add to the "slop". Just guessing.

Didn't know that the Legacy/OB was free of lash. Interesting.

I just have made it a habit to feather the clutch a bit in those stop and go conditions.

Ken

scirocco22

Thanks for your responses! ...I think both of you have put me more at ease with this now with your explanations. I have a MT and I think, now that I reflect back on it, that it is a problem that is probably more exclusively aimed at manuals for as you said, Brian, the torque coverter in an AT should "absorb" most of the slack. And Ken, I think your exlanation on the difference between the Subaru and the Audi AWD systems makes a lot of sense. In fact, I totally agree that that's why I feel it in the Forester and not in the A4. Every car I've owned has been a manual and, as I've said, some have had this lash and some have not ...the 'cheaper' cars are the ones that seem to have had it the most. A friend of mine who currently has a Legacy wagon with a MT tells me she doesn't feel any lash but she did feel it with her old Datsun/Nissan 200SX that had RWD with a MT. She contriubutes the said lash for causing her to slide into a ditch in the ice when she gently lifted up on the accelerator while going around a curve.

So I'm becoming to come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter whether the vehicle is AWD, FWD or RWD, on a manual, there is the possibility that the manufacturer of that vehicle has, for whatever reason, failed to engineer this drivetrain lash out of that particular model of their vehicle.

I hesitate in feathering the clutch too much, Ken, for I can see that contributing to premature clutch wear and at times even seems impractical but I think I'll try that a little more often with the Forester. I usually try to shift without using the clutch as much as possible but in the Forester, I find the spooling effect of the engine to be quite quirky on this vehicle which makes it difficult to time the shifts correctly when trying to shift without using the clutch. I'll have to keep experimenting as I continue to drive it.

Again, I appreciate your responses ...these forums are sure great when it comes to gathering information by getting feedback from others! Thanx!!

--'rocco

grahampeters

G'day
I am not sure whether this helps. When I acquired my MT 99 Outback two years ago, I discovered that it could develop a viscious jolt when moving from an idle throttle to even gentle throttle settings, particularly when the engine had been running at low loads for some time. It was not consistent but was particularly violent on a route I travel occassionally which involves about thirty minutes on a long downgrade of lightly trafficked freeway followed by a sudden steep incline. The jolt when I depressed the throttle, even gently, for this upgrade, was pretty exciting, suggesting something was falling off the car.

I presumed that it was transmission or driveline related as I had previous experience of this.

The general idea here is that through the various universal joints and connections in the drivetrain, there can build up quite a bit of slack. When you shift from the wheels pushing against the engine (engine braking) to the other way around (engine driving) all of the slack is taken from one extreme to the other. This is apparent in old cars with slack universal joints etc. This seems to be the sort of thoughts that Scirocco seems to be considering.

However, my enquiries took me down an entirely different path. Subarus use an adaptive learning process in the Engine Control Unit (on board computer). This modifies the mapping of the fuel injection based on the experience of your driving behaviour over approximately the last twenty minutes. When I had been travelling down hill, the throttle was essentially closed and the engine progressively leans out. When the throttle is then opened, it becomes comparatively very rich resulting in a sudden jerk as the engine seeks to adapt.

I referred it to the dealer and then to Subaru Australia who promptly (ie Can we come around tomorrow morning (Saturday)?) fitted a modified ECU in a bid to find a fix. After testing, they concluded that it was not a satisfactory fix and referred the problem back to the factory.

Coincidentally at this point, Shell introduced Optimax fuel which is a 99RON fuel with a denser hydrocarbon content. I am an accountant, not a petroleum engineer so have no idea what this does, despite researching it hard. The effect of this is unclear to me but the jolt essentially disappeared at the same time as fuel economy jumped by 10 to 15%. I then called Subaru Australia to mention this and they confirmed they were also seeing similar results. This effectively ceased my concern. The fuel costs about 5% more but the trade off in improved economy makes it very worthwhile.

It may be worth experimenting with different fuels and different driving styles to check whether the problem may be similar to what I had seen.

Incidentally, Subarus, possibly because they have a horizontalkly opposed engine, tend to gum up in the upper engine fairly readily. It is worth making sure a detergent is added at service intervals to get rid of any gunge.

Cheers

Graham

secretariat

I appreciate your responses so much about the Forester, Legacy and Tribute. It helps to hear opinions of those who have actually used the vehicles and have some experience with cars in general.

Does anyone know how the market is now for 2001 Foresters and Legacy wagons? Are they in short supply or can I expect to pay a significant amount under retail? Living in Central New York, it seems as if there are a lot of Subarus on the street.I am probably going to go to my local Subaru dealer tomorrow while they are closed at least to see what is available on the lot.

Thanks again.

Patricia

kens

Patricia,

I'm not familiar with your particular market, but it's not uncommon for Subarus to be sold at several hundred over invoice price, not MSRP (ie. retail).

Given that, you probably won't find 2001s to be thousands less compared to the 2002s. If the difference were a few hundred dollars, I think it's worth to get the newer model.

Ken

scirocco22

Hi Patricia-- As Ken said, regional differences do make a difference as to availability. I'll give you my take on availability for I just finished with the purchasing process last week after several months of shopping and negotiating. Here in the NW, new 2001 Foresters are virtually gone now for the 2002s have been out for several months. The 2001 Outbacks (Legacy based) on-the-other-hand, are presently in abundance for the 2002s are just starting to come available for dealer inventory (last week, here in the NW). Again, here in the NW, I am quite confident that one could purchase a 2001 OB for under invoice now. As for the 2002 Forester, like Ken stated, one should be able to easily get one for not too much over the invoice price. They are in relatively good availability here but not as abundant as the OB. Please see my post to brad (eagleboy) on my pricing experience, click here ---> scirocco22 Aug 9, 2001 6:54pm. Good luck and please let us know what you do!

Graham-- Thanks so much for your input on the drivetrain lash issue! Yes, I hope that the ECU will eventually adjust to maybe my driving habits and the lash will not seem as evident to me after awhile. But I hesitate in using premium grade fuel for that was one of the reasons I purchased a Forester; for the fact that it requires only the minimal octane fuel ...although I still may consider that at some point just to see if it makes any difference. And thanks for the tip on the fuel detergent; that makes sense and sounds like a good idea!

--'rocco

marsh511

My wife and I have narrowed our vehicle choice to the Forester and the Hyundai Santa Fe. While we both liked the 'driving impressions' on the Forester better, we have concerns about the cargo space in the Forester. Neither of us have ever been "SUV drivers"... nor do we enjoy maneuvering a large vehicle, so we're hoping that the Forester's cargo area will be sufficient.

Being an Interior Designer, my wife on occasion will need to tote over furniture to her clients - we're not talking massive 4-poster beds and such, but end tables and dressers, etc. We know that the cargo room for the Forester is 63.3 cubic feet, but what is the TALLEST, WIDEST, and LONGEST hard object that will fit into the Forester? This would be taking into account the wheelwell intrusions (for width), the back hatch opening height, and the not-quite-flat folded rear seats.

We're hoping it can accommodate something up to around 60" long, 32" high, and 38" wide.

Any information would be much appreciated! I personally am hoping the cargo space on the Forester cuts the mustard... because I absolutely love the way the vehicle drives and handles!

Thanks

susubaru

i purchased kraco mats ( kh 2709 )from auto zone in tan for my 01, and they fit nicely. they're not the super heavy ones, which i did not want.

armac13

According to Consumer Reports, the "maximum cargo box" for the Forester is 59x36x29 inches LxWxH. The S= height component is less due to the moon roof. Hope this helps.

Ross

rsunico

rocco: car would not turn over, and I was not giving it gas (of course) so the engine was not flooded. After 3 cranks it turned over, hesitated a tad, then worked fine and has been fine so far.
Strange.

scirocco22

Renato-- It's been working fine since? That's great! Mine's been okay so far but once I didn't have the clutch depressed quite enough and I wondered why it didn't crank but quickly figured out why *lol*

john-- Thanx for the tip! I've been sort of looking around for a light-weight all-weather mat and thought I'd go with the "Target" ones that some here have suggested but I'll check out the ones you mentioned.

Marshall-- I posted a response to your post over on the Dealers and Pricing forum. I agree with Ross: stay away from the S Premium if you need that height requirement! ...it definitely is substantially less. I'm just totally surprised at how much headroom (over the whole length of the roof) that gigantic moonroof eats up on my newly acquired S+. Good luck!

--'rocco

drew_

Well the large moonroof needs to slide somewhere :-)


Drew
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armac13

I see three advantages to my after market roof and one disadvantage. Mine tilts and slides - the tilt feature is very important in a rainy area like Vancouver. Being smaller than the factory roof it steals less interior room and it weighs less therefore upsetting the center of gravity less. On the down side it's smaller. :-(

Ross

goodyrl

Bought one in Omaha. 2 dealers here. Paid invoice about 2 weeks ago.

scirocco22

*lol* ...yeah, I didn't realize how much room that moonroof steals from the interior space though! I find myself second guessing whether I made the right decision going with the S Premium now. I mean, how many times am I going to use that mammoth thing anyway? I too am in a rainy area... Seattle! *lol* ...so no problems with leaking yet, Ross? I've heard that they are doing a much better job nowadays with after-market installations. I had one done over 20 years ago (manual type, of course) and it started giving me problems after the first year ...but I'm sure the installation technology and technique have improved greatly since then.

btw, definitively, what is the difference between a 'sunroof' and a 'moonroof??' --TIA

--'rocco

rsholland

Moonroof = glass w/sliding sun shade

Sunroof = steel

Bob

scirocco22

armac13

perfect so far, it's even quiet (relatively) and has a super warranty. I'm a happy camper all-in-all.

Ross

turksteritis

Yo troops....looking at a 98 S with 45,000 kilo,s(26000 miles) It still has the balance of the 100,000 kilometer warranty & the dealer says it had piston knock & a new motor was installed. anything else to look out for & was piston slap a major issue on the 98 Foresters?

armac13

have often been a problem with the Forester. Once they have been replaced they often fail again because of improper torquing. Some people have had clutch problems (is it MT or AT?). AFAIK those are the major problems to look for. Where are you located Mike? BTW Mike is almost as good a name for a Subie owner as Dave.:-)

Ross

turksteritis

I am in Brandon mb, The car is in Winnipeg. It is an auto. I just bought a new Tribute & it is an incredible vehicle. I am thinking of trading off wifeys 97 Rav 4 with only 50 k,s on it. It rides horrible & is really noisey.I was looking at a 01 Forester but local dealer inlates MSRP $2,000 so I got a Tribute for way less. This 98 is at a Isuzu dealer & seems minty.

armac13

stories about the Subaru situation in Winnipeg. Grim to say the least. Sounds like a good chance to get a good car. I love my Forester - probable the best overall car I've owned. It's my first AT after 35+ years of driving, but it seems to be a very good transmission.

Ross

kens

Mike,

The 97-98 DOHC engines used pistons with a very short skirt (skirtless pistons) in order to maximize fuel econonmy and power. The unfortunate tradeoff with this design is that the piston travel is less stable and has a tendency to hit the cylinder wall especially when cold. Subaru claims it doesn't harm the engine, but people who complained have had either the entire block replaced or just the pistons.

The only other major item to look out for in a 98 is the clutch (if a manual tranny). The early 98s had a weak pressure plate that caused premature clutch failure. These were usually replaced under warranty.

Ken

drew_

Ah, piston slap...yeah, it doesn't hurt the engine according to Motoring 2001's (Canadian TV auto show) resident mechanic/expert. His old Honda Civic hatchback has that too, and the easiest thing to do according to him, if you don't want to hear that noise, is to allow the engine to warm up a bit before moving off.


Drew
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pattim3

If they've replaced the wheel bearing before and you still have a problem, have them take a look at the hub. It can get distorted if a bad bearing was in it and it will make all future bearings develop a problem. You may want to ask them to replace the hub and bearing.

I hope you are well!

Patti

armac13

I was just responding to Mike's question about whether there were any known problems with '98 Foresters. Rufus has been perfect (fingers tightly crossed) to date. :-) Rufus & I are both well, thanks.

Ross

axo1995

Okay, I have a few questions on what I am going to assume may be a very tired subject for some of you, but after spending 1.5 hours of my work time (God, I hope my boss doesn't read this) reading and searching this board, I cannot find what I know to be here ... somewhere.

I just bought a black Subaru Forester S Premium and am in love with it. It's my first brand-new car and it's a really neat feeling to see your odometer roll over it's first 100 miles and know that you will remember that moment (ooohhh, this is sappy, but it's love). I bought it to be the future "family" car, but also because it handles well, has all the features I needed/wanted and was affordable. But I never planned on buying one... and you can all thank yourselves for the fact that I did. I was over here, quietly reading the boards for info, because my boyfriend insisted that I HAD to look at the Forester, and found that you were all so rabid about your Subies that I would give it a test drive to see what the hoopla was all about. I bought my car off the lot the next day while it was still in it's plastic and I haven't looked back. Wow, this is a long post, lemme get to the specifics.

I need to finish off the car and need some help for those of you familiar with aftermarket products. I have 2 large dogs (one is 60 and the other 95 lbs) and they are the main cause for my needing help. The Forester back seat lays forward so that both dogs have enough room to both stand and lay down, but they like to stand and stuck their noses out of the moonroof. I am afraid of toenails on the leather headrests and trim and need something large and durable that will tuck in and stay secure (!!!) from the trunk to the back of the front seats. Waterproof may be the best option for those days at the beach... The car mat they give you is really nice, but not long enough.

Second, for times when only one dog accompanies me, I need a GOOD aftermarket pet gate for the back compartment that doesn't cost and arm and leg and is also easily installed and removed repeatedly.

Finally, for when we're all on the road together, the dogs will be taking up the luggage space, so we're looking for a good luggage rack that (call me crazy here) holds luggage but doesn't cost us a mortgage payment and is easy for me to get into. You know, that whole user-friendly thing...

Any help you all can offer is great. I'm willing to read and shop and compare prices, but you guys offer much more hands-on knowledge and I would rather throw these questions to you before I go testing things on my own. I'll be happy to share results on the board.

Oh! One more thing: had anyone tinted the windows of their Subie and have recommendations on that subject? Thanks in advance for any contributions!

scirocco22

*lol* --I was definitely entertained by reading your post! Congratulations on the new Forester! I'm a new S Prem. owner too so I can't give you any suggestions but I'm also am looking for something that you described (to throw in the back for protection). Although I don't have any dogs right now --I am planning on hauling some materials around so I'm looking for something similar. So I guess I'll just wait, listen and learn along with you! Thanx for posting! --terrific writing style!

--'rocco

kens

axo1995,

Congrats and welcome to the club!

Tint is a great option for the Forester because it has so much glass. Check with your local state laws on tinting to see how far you can go.

Go and check out a couple tint shops and ask them for quotes. Things to look for are the type of film (metallic vs. dyed) and the shops warranty.

Metallic films are more resistant to fading and also provide a clearer view at night.

Prices vary quite a bit so shop around. You'll probably need to spend at least $200 for having all the back windows done.

Ken

canuck9

Good day to everyone.

My wife owns a 2000 Forester, (silver), with 37000kms. I've recently noticed tiny (pin head size) 'orange' dots throughout the surface of the vehicle. A closer examination reveals these dots appear to be rust forming from under the clearcoat.
The Subaru service technician advised me this was a common occurance on all vehicles, especially light colored vehicles, caused by "Industrial Fallout", i.e pollution, acid rain. He swears this is an industry term. Bottom line this is not covered under warrant. I do not live or work near an industrial plant, (he asked if I did). Three of my neighbors also have silver cars and theirs do not display any evidence of "Industrial Fallout".
Has anyone experienced this problem?
I personally do not buy the explanation given to me and think there is a problem with the paint.
I want to hear some feedback before I call Subaru directly.

Thanks

gossamar

On the cooler issue, I did buy one of those coleman models, but I am not very happy with its performance. The cooler worked fine the first time out on AC, but I am not able to use it with the power points in the car without blowing the fuse, even when new. Not sure if I have a bad unit or what. This is just not in the "sube", but my ford SUPERDUTY as well, and these are 20-amp fuses to boot. The AC adapter is also pickey as well. I am on my second one and unless you get the plug in the socket "just-right", forget it..no dice. So my next option is to install a new plug adapter on the cooler, if not, might be buying a new model. Bottom line, I would go with the Subaru version of the cooler. That way if there are problems(blown fuses), you can take it back to them to find out what is wrong.

Now on the fallout issue, there is another possibility...rail dust. If the dealer will not take care of, there might be an option you can do yourself using ZAINO BROS' products. http://www.zainobros.com/files/info.htm#anchor158090 Scroll down to the Z-18 Clay bar, this might be your best bet, along with the rest of the process. I have been using this stuff since the first of the year, and it ROCKS!! The amount of gunk the clay bar took off my one-year old truck was astonishing, and I THOUGHT I kept a clean truck... It is a little pricey and initially time consuming, but it is by far some of the best products I have used. Several folks over at the ford-diesel site have had this problem on the trucks and been very happy with the results using the ZAINO system. Happy reading to all....

originalbitman

Good point Tom. It could well be metal that is on the surface that is rusting (or left a rust spot) and not the cars sheetmetal. Clay will get to the bottom of it either by removing the surface rust stain or revealing a chip or imperfection in the paint surface. Seems more likely to be that latter.

bit - 2001 GT Wagon