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Comments
That's why I don't consider the Forester a true SUV. If I did spend more time off-road I might consider something like a Jeep...but that's another topic.
Ed
Caution: They were very slow to respond to their on-line order form. I think they are fairly new at mail order so they probably will improve, but you might want to use their toll free number (1-888-SUBY4WD).
My experience is only with this single order, but I would order again. I've seen their advertisements in the back of at least one auto mag. I'm not associated with them in any way.
By the way, this is my first post. I have a 2001 S Premium in Silverthorn. Self-installed accessories have been a hitch and front and rear deflectors. Avg. mpg has been just under 25 (automatic) over 5000 miles, and no problems other than a self-fixed rear hatch popping noise when going over bumps. Anyone want to know about this fix? The dealer knew it was a common problem but didn't have a definitive fix.
Mike
Mike
Dale-- Is that the same site that Bit was talking about? I assume it is. I was hoping for an online catalog but even without one, it sounds like pretty good prices. If your are in the Seattle area, have you found any one dealer that offers better prices for parts, etc. than others? I'm going to call Liberty to inquire about their prices but it sounds like you've gathered that, after the shipping charges, they'd still beat buying direct locally? I've ordered several items for my Audi from an online parts dealership in Boston (Clair Group, a multi-manufacturer dealership) that even with the shipping charges, beats any of the local dealers so I was hoping to do the same with the Forester. Thanx for the info'.
Juice or Ken-- I know you've said that you use or are willing to use Purolator (Pure Oil Later *hah* ...I didn't know that's what it stands for!) oil filters. I think I remember reading in one study that Purolator makes the Subaru OEM oil filters. Do you know any place online where one can purchase Purolator filters?
--'rocco
-mike
Ed
Mike: please keep us posted on that scale model. I've never seen any kind of model Forester.
I'm not sure who carries Purolator, but it's the type of brand you'd find at an auto parts store like Pep Boys or Track Auto.
mike (lower case "m" for paisan): $22 is fair, but I have 3 cars, so it's $66. I can do it myself for about $25.
Plus, I never drain the tranny fluid by accident. I've heard of 3 cases now on Subies.
-juice
-mike
I'm anal and use a torque wrench and crush washer every time. I also don't overfill it. Both of these problems are common.
-juice
Although they all have different maintenance schedules so it wouldn't help. Currently the MX6 is on a non-maintenance schedule
-mike
bit - 2001 GT Wagon
This is my first posting and I appreciate the advice you might have to give.
I am a long, long-time Honda Civic wagon driver who has decided to make the switch to a subaru forester. I've been driving a 4-speed manual, front wheel drive for years, and have gotten 157,000 miles out of one clutch, so am pretty comfortable with it. My question is: in terms of safety and handling, does the subarus AWD system work any better with manual OR automatic transmission?? I've heard conflicting advice on this from dealers. I like the amount of control I have with the manual transmission, but if the AWD works better with automatic, I can go with that. Any other advice, in terms of pick-up or anything else, to make me choose one or the other?
Many thanks for your help!
bit - 2001 GT Wagon
-mike
Nancy- The AT has a more sophisticated AWD system while the MT has fewer things that can go wrong. Both are widely considered to be excellent designs. The MT also provides slightly better acceleration and MPG figures. And of course the MT is $800 less than the AT.
-Frank P.
-mike
thank you! jerryg49
The MT AWD system is based on a viscous coupling that acts as a limited slip center differential. The power split default is 50:50 front to back and can go to almost front or rear wheel drive when needed. The advantage of this system is that you have an even power split most of the time resulting in more neutral handling characteristics. The downside is that the viscous coupling won't lock so if you're in very slippery conditions, there will be a noticeable back and forth of power between the front and rear axles.
The AT uses a clutch pack to engage the rear axles when sensors detect slip. Normally, it's front wheel biased, but can send close to half of the power to the rear wheels. The advantage of the AT system is that in certain gears, you can keep a power split resulting in smoother driving in very slippery stuff. The downside to the AT system is that under normal conditions, it's most front wheel drive (understeers more).
Again, both systems work equally well under adverse road conditions. It's only under certain extreme conditions that you'll notice the difference.
My advice is to choose AT vs. MT based on your driving style and not for the AWD mechanism.
Ken
Len
Chuck
I can add some snow experience, we have both a MT and an automatic Forester. Our driveway is 3000 sq. ft., 20' wide and about 130' long where it is straight to the road. It is also about a 20 to 25 degree incline to the street (garage under).
I couldn't wait for some significant snow so I could experiment. We got about 12" of heavy wet stuff (MA) so I left the snow blower in the garage and fired up both Foresters.
It was pretty uneventful but there are were some differences. I started at the bottom and goosed it up the incline, _trying_ to make them slip. My MT just drove right through it with hardly any slip at all, and mine is the L without the LSD. I was moving pretty good too.
My wife's automatic also had no issue with the task, but hers did it differently. The front wheels started to slip noticeably and instantly I could feel the power shift to the rear, keeping forward momentum. Hers is a Premium with the LSD. Both tracked very straight.
I can also tell you that in normal use through last winter, both vehicles felt extremely competent, never feeling unstable, never slipping. This includes a bunch of ice covered roads. If I hadn't tried to make them slip in the driveway, they wouldn't have. I could have just driven to the end and been on my way.
As Ken said, choose your favorite transmission and be comfortable with your choice. As Len said if you want the extra pep and control, the MT is a great choice, and cheaper too. You really can't go wrong either way.
Regards,
Frank
Anyways, He said that the way to fix it would be to put a hot iron to it. I wanted to know what YOU guys thought was the best thing to fix it. I don't want to end up doing a mickey mouse job on this one.
Any suggestions?
--'rocco
As far as the Forester goes, yeah, I do have some concerns but probably more appropriate to discuss them away from this board. *lol* Yes, I am fond of the silver color on cars but I don't know if having two silver cars makes much sense ...but what makes less sense is buying two new cars in the same year! *shakes head* When I was at the dealership picking up the Forester, I saw a red one on the lot and thought maybe I had made a mistake... the red really looked sharp! I didn't like the beige interior, however. Anyway, I'll give you my ratings and other impressions when I get back over "there." I've been pretty busy with work related stuff recently but I'll try to post this week-end sometime. Take care! *waves*
--'rocco
Very helpful tips and explanations!
The top is plastic, the rest is 'fuzzy'!
~L
By the way, interesting about your impressions of the red Forester. When I thought I was going to get a Forester, I decided to wait for the 2001 models in hopes that they'd offer a dark green in the S/with Premium package. Unfortunately, that wasn't one of the choices. So then I was leaning toward Sedona red but ultimately cooled on that choice because I thought it would look better with a gray interior; like you, I wasn't crazy about the beige. Some people thought I was nuts about being so picky about the color, including the interior color, but I think it's important to be happy with the overall looks of whatever you're driving. And I do think the new silver looks very classy.
Now about vacation with Forester 2001 M/T. Last weekend we went to Acadia National Park in Maine from New York City. We've made 1200 miles in 4 days. Driving at around 70 mph with A/C on we've came out with 31 mpg. With the speed 85-95mph milage came down to 27 mpg. I'm highly recomending Maine, at least its coastal part. We've took route 1 from Brunswick to Ellsworth and siteseeings are unforgettable. Same goes to Acadia Park. Forester didn't have any problem climbing Cadillac Mt.
Before going on the trip my check engine light went on. Problem was checked by dealer and I was O.K-ed to go while the part was ordered. Assist injector solenoid valve was replaced and problem seems to be solved.It was fixed by Staten Island Subaru and so far I'm satisfied with them, Mike-Paisan. I was taken care by Debborah and she was very nice to me. And that's all for today folks. Chris.
Hope this clear thing up.
Mike
Patti posted up that in NO GEAR SELECTION on the AT transmission does it lock in the power to 50/50 or any other pre-determined torque split. No matter where the gear selector is (R,1,2,3,D) it is always 80/20 F/R split to start with, that will vary up to 60/40 F/R.
-mike
If Patti posted that info, it is in direct contradiction to the owners manual which states that when the gear selector is placed in either 1st, 2nd, and/or reverse the power distribution is 50/50. Oooh yeah .. the debate continues.
- hutch
AT AWD Torque splits -- I'd really love to see an official article from Subaru explaining this much debated issue. Someone somewhere has to know for sure!
Ken
-Brian
I have been to a few places to have the oil changed(other than the dealer) and no one knows which oil filter is to be used on the 2002 as they say the book has not come out yet.
Any one know if it uses the same as the 2001?
Ross
Which brochure states 90/10? (is it online anywhere, I'd be curious to see it, and I'll have to check my dad's manual in his '97)
-mike
That being said, I drive my '02 L AT off *pavement* nearly every weekend, and some of these are old logging roads that really push its all-road abilities to the max.
So - I'm interested in the power transfer debate, especially as far as someone producing a straight dope statement from SOA. My own experience is that power transfer occurs in an adequate manner, particularly on higher-angle or soft stuff, such that I have always gotten wherever I wanted to go. (Mind, I do take precautions in scouting ahead, on foot, and pick a very careful line. I am very well aware that this is not a Jeep.)
Also, I have decided to add the rear diff. protector. Not sure that it will really add a lot of protection, but some protection might be all it takes to emerge unscathed.
Anyone installed this item themselves?
Also, to Scirocco, what does "*lol*" mean? I ask this on the board at large because I suspect others are curious too. (If this is a blatantly obvious abbreviation, or if I missed the explanation, then I guess its shame on me.)
Ken
lol= laughing out loud
-mike
PS: I think Juice installed the rear diffy protector pretty easily.
Laurie-- I looked at the strut towers in the back and noticed what you were talking about ...the plastic piece that's on top appears to be a fairly small section and as Ken S. stated, probably wouldn't be too difficult to replace. How deep are the scratches? If they're not too deep maybe going over it with an exceptionally fine grain of sandpaper and then applying a plastic polish or restorer (preservative) may mask it a bit. If you can live with it, when you go to sell the car, the cargo cover brace almost fits on top of it so it might not show to the prosective buyer. *shrugs*
Ken H.-- hmmm, sorry to use that so often, it's kinda ridiculous to use it in this forum but it's a common chat abbreviation and I have a bad habit of using them in both e-mail and message boards. Don't feel bad ...people that don't use chat forums probably wouldn't be exposed to chat expressions that frequently ...sorry! My buddy has an extra ticket to one of the Detroit games on Thursday afternoon so hopefully I can get off work early (which I probably can't *whimpers*) ...wait a sec, that's the last game of that series so if it's a sweep day, I just might play hooky! :-p
--'rocco
Here's the info from the SOA site. Not sure if it answers your questions:
Continuous All-Wheel Drive: Simple, Effective, and Reliable
In vehicles with the 5-speed manual transmission, the All-Wheel Drive uses a viscous coupling in a center differential inside the transaxle case. It contains a series of opposing discs attached to the front and rear output shafts, surrounded by a silicone fluid. In normal operation, power is distributed equally between the front and rear wheels (50/50 power split). Slippage at the front or rear wheels causes a rotational difference between the front and rear discs in the viscous unit, which then shears the fluid.
The shearing action heats the fluid, causing it to thicken. As the fluid thickens, power transfers from the slipping wheels to the wheels with the best traction. When the slippage ceases, all the discs turn at the same speed, restoring the 50/50 power split. The process is quick and imperceptible to the driver and passengers.
The continuous All-Wheel Driving System is simple, compact, and virtually invisible during operation. Its traction adds a significant margin of safety on slippery or unpaved roads, and enhances dry-road handling.
Active All-Wheel Drive
Subaru models equipped with the four-speed electronic automatic transmission (4EAT) employ Active All-Wheel Drive. Active All-Wheel Drive optimizes power distribution before slippage occurs.
Instead of a viscous coupling center differential, 4EAT-equipped Subaru vehicles feature an electronically managed variable transfer clutch in the transaxle tailshaft. Power transfer is governed by slippage in the clutch plates, which use a special friction material that easily handles the loads generated during power transfer.
The electronic Transmission Control Module (TCM) controls the All-Wheel Drive multi-plate clutch. The "normal" power split is 90 percent front/10 percent rear. The active AWD can adjust the power split in an instant, depending on many input factors. If the front wheels begin to slip, the TCM increases hydraulic pressure on the clutch, reducing slippage of the plates. As the front wheels regain traction, the TCM reduces pressure on the clutch, increasing slippage of the plates and transferring power to the front.Continuous All-Wheel Drive: Simple, Effective, and Reliable
In vehicles with the 5-speed manual transmission, the All-Wheel Drive uses a viscous coupling in a center differential inside the transaxle case. It contains a series of opposing discs attached to the front and rear output shafts, surrounded by a silicone fluid. In normal operation, power is distributed equally between the front and rear wheels (50/50 power split). Slippage at the front or rear wheels causes a rotational difference between the front and rear discs in the viscous unit, which then shears the fluid.
The shearing action heats the fluid, causing it to thicken. As the fluid thickens, power transfers from the slipping wheels to the wheels with the best traction. When the slippage ceases, all the discs turn at the same speed, restoring the 50/50 power split. The process is quick and imperceptible to the driver and passengers.
The continuous All-Wheel Driving System is simple, compact, and virtually invisible during operation. Its traction adds a significant margin of safety on slippery or unpaved roads, and enhances dry-road handling.
bit
Which is why the EPA city estimate is actually better on autos than on manuals (22 vs. 21). Real world figures are different, but Subies can outsmart the EPA.
The important thing, to me, is the "feel". The autos feel like FWD, except there is much better traction when needed. This is ideal for most drivers. You get what you need when you need it.
The manuals feel more neutral, and this is what I like about it. It doesn't feel like FWD at all, ever. While it is not as sophisticated, it is every bit as effective and it is elegant in its simplicity.
We debate this topic often, but when it comes down to it, traction is excellent with both. I can't break traction in the snow unless I try to (for fun). Even a novice driver can drive safely in snow if they are being careful.
Jerry: I have not seen any DRL disabling, but you could check i Club and do a topic search. I'm sure you know it's illegal to remove any safety features - just a disclaimer.
I do have the diffy protector. It's quite beefy. The install is a little tricky because you have to move the exhaust pipe over to reach two bolts, but not too difficult. Instructions and photos are here.
-juice
I have a 01 with a/t...if I put the selector in 1 or 2 do I or do I not get a 50/50 power split?
Patti do you have an answer or is the best source the repair manual?
I know there are lots of views/opinions on this subject but certainly there has to be a definitive answer in laymans terms.
True, the difference between 90/10 vs. 80/20 is negligible. I think the one thing people really want to know about is what happens in 1st, 2nd and Reverse gears?
Ken
-mike
Hmmm...maybe time to swap out that 18mm for a 20?
Ed
-mike
Since day 1, the car had a slight high pitched wine when going above 65 mph. It's pretty hard to hear, but I can hear it, and the Subaru mechanic I had with me in the car could hear it too. The pitch is like a jet engine when reving. The mechanic said that there is nothing abnormal with my car, although it is possible other 2002 might not have it. He basically said that no 2 cars are alike. They did not have any other 2002 in the lot to compare (I bough mine from another dealership). The fluids in AT/differentials are fine.
A second thing is a rattle coming from the hatch area. Started a few days ago. It's more like a 'thud', it does not sound plasticky or buzzy. It's pretty much all the time there at low speeds, when going over small potholes or bumps.
Yesterday after I turned the front wipers on, on the Intermitent setting, after a few minutes the relay started to become much louder than I think it should. I had other cars with intermittent wipers and I could not hear the relay. This is way louder.
Finally, I checked the front and rear door speakers and they are very low quality. I have the the tweeter package and the tweeters look fine, but the main speakers definitely need an upgrade... The head unit seems good quality though.
Surprisingly low noise from roof rack and sunroof.
I am averaging low 20's in mixed driving.