The Passat W8 is $38 grand, and the Phaeton will start at prices well above that ($50-60k).
That makes the Audi A8 redundant. It's already struggling, so this might be the final blow.
I can see how the A4 is sportier than the Passat, but the A6 overlaps too much with the W8 and isn't really that sporty. Neither is the A8. So they aren't differentiated enough.
I'm telling you, Piech was great for VW but he's going too far. They are going to suffer a major hang over in 2 years, bleeding money like never before. You'll see.
I'd take a Seat any day. They are VW platform with real character. Build quality is now wonderful.
Skoda has a really bad long term joke reputation in the UK but their last few offerings have been very good. The Octavia is a lovely car, and huge inside. I am not sure if Doctor Who was ever shown on US TV but he had a time machine (the Tardis) which was the size of a Police box on the outside but a whole space craft inside. The Octavia is like that.
As far as brand identity goes, Skoda is now sitting where VW was fifteen years ago with Seat above it and VW above that. Audi is supposedly above that although I could never see the point of an A4 - smaller than a Passat for similar identity. The Passat is a seriously good car, still outstanding after 5 years. VW turns out some gems.
Graham: Thanks for the info. The most exposure we in the US get to SEAT and Skoda is through the measly coverage of the WRC, which may change with the increase in coverage from Speedvision. I don't know enough of the brands to praise or malign them, but just have to wonder what VW would have to do to market them successfully here.
Still can't get that DB4GT Zagato grocery getter out of my mind .
I need to replace the tires on my '98 Forester. Previous owner never rotated the tires and now the highway road noise is unbearable. Anyone have suggestions on good quiet tires? Thanks
If you have the "S" with 16" wheels, the OEM Yokohama HTs are actually very good, except in snow/ice. Real winter tires are by far the best choice for serious winter conditions. The "L" has 15" wheels. I've read mixed reviews of the the OEM Bridgestones. The 2002 "L"s seem to have Michelins now.
Michelin X-1's and Dunlop SP series have been looked at favorably in earlier posts here (100-150 back). I will be replacing the "summer" tires on my '99 "S" this spring and will probably start with these models, looking for good/excellent wet performance. You can also check Consumer Reports, but bring a grain of salt or two. Tire Rack has an informative web site: www.tirerack.com .
ALSO: Have your alignment checked/done thoroughly by a good shop. Some Subarus have been poorly aligned new, which has caused tire noise and uneven wear. Good luck & keep us posted.
John
PS: Anyone else have long-term experience with non-OEM tires, i.e. how tires are with 30K+ treadwear?? Many tires are fine at the start then get noisy or lose grip.
I got at least 60K miles out of the Bridgestone RE92 Potenzas I had on a 93 Honda Civic and a 97 Honda Prelude. This was with a fair amount of, ahem, "vigorous" driving. I wouldn't have counted on them for winter weather for the last 10K miles or so, but otherwise the tires were fine (they were really never that good in the snow to begin with).
A car tire like the Michelin X-One can go 80K miles or more before it needs replacement. I have a friend who puts high mileage on his car, and he swears by them.
Well I'm just paranoid I suppose. I look at it as cheap insurance to replace the tires before they absolutely need them. I'll bet at 80K miles those Michelins were no where near as good as when they had 10K miles on them. Just a difference of opinion. I do the same with brake pads, at the first hint of non-perfect stopping, they get replaced.
From what I hear about you on this board, you tend to push your vehicles quite hard like I do. That does tend to accelerate tire wear to below what normal drivers achieve
You do have a pint there, I do push em, although I don't auto-x in my street tires anymore. Unless you count the BQE and Belt Parkway as auto-x courses! Heck they might be harder than an auto-x!
I agree with paisan to some extent. I think age is a big issue. If you drove 80k miles in two years, the tires may still be OK if wear is even.
But if they're 8 years old and have 80k miles, by then they've probably deteriorated and dried out, so I'd replace them even if some tread was left over.
Re old tires: When I bought my Stude in fall '98, it had the original '63 bias-ply Firestone spare, still intact with nubs and all, never on the ground. What a museum piece, but one I tossed just the same. Bought a set of 5 radials and didn't look back - it's a driver, not a trailer queen.
Mike, you're right about good tires as cheap insurance. I put on 25-30K pretty easy-going miles a year (mostly fast highway cruising), so my tires wear out before they age out. I rotate, check tire pressure & alignment regularly so my tire wear is usually even. - I probably keep tires longer than I should but OTOH want to get the most wear for the $. Just ckecking for long life reports on tire models.
Ah, the BQE. Brings back memories. My favorite drive is the FDR, however.
Tires are always a comprimise. Grippiness and treadlife often are inversely related. I personally replace my tires well before I hit the wear indicators since I do rely on the all-season characteristics.
I typically keep my spares inflated close to the max pressure. It's easier to air them down to match the other three but not the other way around.
My wife picked up her Blue Forester today. It looks very good sitting in our garage! I've read that most Soobie owners like the additional armrest; what about rubber mats? Besides the Subaru ones, does anyone recommend the Weathertechs or? Do they have to be cut to size or has someone found ones that fit pefectly? Also, seat covers; I admit I haven't looked yet, do they make cover for a 60/40 seat? Any recommendations for nice not too expensive seat covers for the front? Online or a particular store? We may not do front seat covers as we do take care of the interior but would like the option. Thanks
Oops forgot: picked up the Forester today as I said in an earlier post. $19,766, no surprises, juice. Usual spiel of what a good deal I got--and it's not bad. Dealer said they had lots of automatic Foresters so we got lucky price wise... suuure. He said he only made $200--of course he didn't mention the dealer holdback.. The dealer did mention theirs, not Subaru's, 100,000 mile warranty that if it wasn't used I'd get my money back...only $1300+!, no hard sell, I said no, that was the end of it.
I bought the arm rest and the rubber mats from 1stsubaruparts.com, which was recommended by someone previously a while back. They shipped pretty fast. Takes about 20 minutes to install the arm rest at a leisurely place - just make sure to watch which side the arm came from, and to open the rear cupholder - follow the instructions!. The rubber mats do not cover the footrest on the left, so that area will get dirty eventually. Personally I think they are worth it if you live in snowy area.
Was keyless the only option other than automatic transmission? I've never seen a Forester without several other options. What was the sticker price on the car?
These are the quotes I've gotten by e-mail so far plus a third vehicle I haven't asked about, yet:
Automatic Transmission Auto Dimming Mirror/Compass Custom Tailpipe Cover Rear Cargo Net Keyless Entry System Cross Bars And Slats Splash Guards Rear Cargo Tray Floor Mats Rear Bumper Cover MSRP $22067 will sell for $20792
Automatic Transmission Tweeter Kit 6-Disk In-Dash CD Changer Center Armrest Console Custom Tailpipe Cover Rear Cargo Net Keyless Entry System Cross Bars And Slats Splash Guards Rear Cargo Tray Floor Mats Rear Bumper Cover MSRP $22,600 will sell for $21,179
Automatic Transmission Cd Player Center Armrest Console Custom Tailpipe Cover Rear Cargo Net Keyless Entry System Auto Dimming Mirror/Compass Cross Bars And Slats Splash Guards Rear Cargo Tray Floor Mats Rear Bumper Cover MSRP $22,524 will sell for ???
On the L, it's beige vs. gray which would be decided by the exterior color chosen. Does anyone have any opinions on living with either of these colors? I like the red exterior, but I'm not sure about that beige.
Yes, keyless was the only option, though according to the dealer most L Foresters seem to come with it. Your first list of equipment: Automatic Transmission except for this--Auto Dimming Mirror/Compass Custom Tailpipe Cover and this--- Rear Cargo Net Keyless Entry System Cross Bars And Slats Splash Guards Rear Cargo Tray Floor Mats Rear Bumper Cover Is the closest to what I got. There were some dealers who had more options on the L but when I told them all I wanted was keyless, they had no trouble finding an L with just keyless.
As it turned out, the car we test drove, that had a sticker of $22,something, but they had a stuck a red tag from the mirror dropping it to 21667, which I ignored. I don't care what they quote you, ignore it unless it's the price you want. I started at what I believe was invoice-which I got from 3 different car sites: 19225, plus 525 dest. chg, plus 116 keyless=19866. I told one dealer 19866-- he said something about Oh GOD we can't sell it for that! Etc. I told him thanks for trying. A little while later I get an email from him and oh the price suddenly got lower...not 19866 but lower. If you want things like the cdplayer etc. work out what that would cost from the invoice up.
Don't forget they get a 3% dealer holdback even if they do sell it at invoice so they don't lose money. Before I write a lot more than you may want to hear, do you know the invoice and manuf. price for all the options you want? If you do than you know that 20792 is about 800 too much. Believe me they will not sell you a car at a real loss to them. They may only make the dealer holdback on a car, but they're still making money. Shoot for invoice plus manuf. price for options. Stick to your price,whicd in my opinion is invoice and manuf. price on all options. R R
Finally got some snow to test my 2001 Forester. It was okay. Not great. Not horrible (my rear drive Peugeot 505 wagon w/ Blizzaks was better). I know its the stock Dueler tires... hate 'em. So w/ proper rotation how much longer before they wear out and I can install the 16 inch rims (and use the stock 15 for snows). Also, a dealer told me the car is geared for 15", not 16" and changing would have an impact on the speedo and "will screw up the computer". He does sell 16" upgrades (duh) and I think its a crock but thought I'd post. If anyone has switched from 15 to 16" rims please advise.
With all this talk of pricing, check out Liberty Subaru's web site (www.newsubaru.com). They have pricing as follows: L:19,308. S:21,581. S Premium: 22,477 (wow). I'm not affiliated w/ the dealership, btw. I'd love for the new Forester to be larger and more horsepower. I'd be in line!
The gearing should be the same, because the tire size is what determines overall diameter, number of rotations per mile, etc. The L has 205-70R15s while the S has lower profile 215-60R16s. The "60" series has lower profile sidewalls which more or less adjust the overall diameter to make up the increase in rim size. If you stick with manufacturer's tire sizes, you will not have any problems. You could probably even increase by one size (on all 4 corners of course!) with no ill effect. I have 15" steels for snow and OEM 16" alloys for the rest of the year on my "S". It's the way to go in the Northeast!
John: the pricing looks good on the outside, but when you go to the site and look at the 2002 Forester inventory there's not one listed at 19308, not even a 5 speed. All the prices are basically msrp. If they are selling all forester L's at 19308, than pick the most expensive L they list and see if they'll actually sell it for 19308. R
Hi All, This is my first posting and would like to say how much I enjoy my 2001 Forester S. I drove it right of the show room floor. My wife and I really like it. It now has about 16k miles and so far everything seems to be pretty good. I am a little surprised about the lower than expected gas mileage: 20 city, 25 highway but the car does run smooth with plenty of punch. I do have one major concern: it appears that my coolant level has recently started to drop slightly. I have filled it to the upper "full" line and check it while parked at the same parked space in the morning. I noticed this a couple of months ago and brought it to the dealer and was informed there seemed to be no problem. Well, after putting on about 1200 miles since, the level has dropped about 3/4", maybe an ounce or two. Since there are no apparent leaks I am assuming there may be some internal issues, hopefully not a cracked block or head. The coolant can't be "evaporating", can it. Where could it escape to if everything was "normal" Does anyone else have to replace coolant at regular intervals or do your levels stay the same? Or am I just being a little too paranoid about the whole thing? Thanks for any response from my fellow Subie owners, /Scott
Just got back from a 200-mile weekend round tripper between Philly and North Jersey (pre and post snowfall) in my 2001 Forester S. Put on my new Michelin Artic Alpins on 15" rims before I left. Observations: 1. At moderate speed on dry road, it felt that the tires were glued to the road to the extent that even the smallest surface undulations were being followed; hence the impression of being solidly set but a bit "squirmy." Surprisingly smooth and noiseless even on merely wet road. No whine at all. Even the concrete separation bumps seemed to be muffled. 2. In snow, ice and slush, the tires were awesome. Starting and stopping on hills were "no sweat" and the overall sense of stability was a dramatic contrast to my "white knuckle" experience on the Yokos last February on a similar trip. 3. Another big and appreciated suprise was that I was not hurt in average mpg - a shade below 27. Temps will be back in the 40's this week, so comes the hassle of changing back, but at least I feel that I am well stocked for the next storm.
Congrats, rictom. Hope it serves you all well as mine has served me.
masan: I believe the fabrics are the same, so it's just the color. I have beige but sort of prefer the grey interior.
Renato: I went from 205/70R15 to 225/60R16 (slightly wider and taller, but not much) and have had nothing but good results. My tires are summer-biased, so I'd get something different in a snowy climate.
The 3" we just got was fun, but unfortunately it's not that common in DC. We only get 2-3 snow storms per year. Snow tires work wonders but for here it's overkill.
Scott: try checking the radiator itself (on a cold engine only, of course). So long as it's close to full, the overflow container level is far less important.
I'm thinking of buying a Forester S or an Outback but I had a problem with the gas peddle. (I have to tell you that I'm using a Dodge Caravan Grand right now.) I have to tell you that I was most uncomfortable with the foot position; the peddles was way off to the right and at an angle, right next to the transmission (?). While pressing on the gas at that awkard (for me) position, after a few miles, my knee and right hip started to ache. (not so with the van and I've driven it for years.) And when I wanted to change the position of my foot, I couldn't because there just was no room to shift into another angle. I'm not sure I'm describing it right. My questions is has anyone else experienced this or is it just me? :-) Same thing in the Outback.
Although I liked the Forester, I was disappointed in the lack of cubby space (yes, I know, I was spoiled by the van) and the flimsy cup holders over the radio. But then I'm being a bit picky, I guess.
Wow, Mary, the Forester has about 100 little nooks and crannies for storage. It's not a van, or course, but it's about as good as it gets in a small SUV. The 6CD is even in-dash and leaves a full size glove compartment for you.
But I gotta be honest, we're all shaped differently, and if you cannot get comfy, don't buy it. Try test driving another, just to make sure your back wasn't having a bad day, and ask the sales person to help you work with all the available adjustments (fore, aft, tilt, front height, rear height, and lumbar). If he fails, don't buy it.
Good luck, I hope I wasn't insulting or condescending in any way. In my case at least it wasn't very hard to get dealers to lower their prices, and I did 99% of the negotiating by email. R
masan--I would have loved the blue Forester with gray interior but you can't get it in the S+ model. We ended up with the red exterior and the beige interior. It is fine! You get used to it and don't even notice the color. What you do notice is all the other great things about the Forester! :-)
I'm going to test drive again after I go see a chiropractor and will do as you suggest. I do like the Forester and am leaning that way, why with its good track record for reliability and safety, etc. I did try the Ford Escape and was torn between the two except that the Escape felt chinsy inside but felt a tad more comfortable. No track record on the Escape's reliablity, etc. Good gov crash results, etc. But like I said, I'm leaning towards the Forester. I've heard nothing but good things about it, here, in snow country where I live.
A slight correction. There is no LONG-TERM track record for Escape reliability. There is a short-tern one and it is all bad with 6(?) recalls so far. Ford usually does sort out the "teething troubles" - eventually, in a few years or so, ... well sometimes. :-) (This one's for you Kate.)
FYI - The Forester will be all new for the 2003 MY. I think the general thinking here is, it will be slightly larger. I also like the looks of the Escape, but, if I had to put my money down it might be hard for me to do on the Escape. You might also want to consider the new Honda CRV (asking MSRP now) or the RAV4. The drivetrains on these two are not as advanced as Subaru's, but they are nice and reliable. Having said that, it would be nice to have you join the Subaru club. Good luck and let us know what you decide.
It's kinda like comparing a Contour to a A4. Different leagues completely. The Forester will go 200K miles with minimal unscheduled maitnenance, whereas the Escape... I'll put money on that it will either never reach 200K or if it does it will have an IV and about $5000-$10K of repair bills by the time it reaches that point.
Originally, I liked Escape looks more than Forester's. Actually, a lot more. But over time Escape started looking too generic and boring to me. It's just like a smaller Explorer.
Forester, OTOH, has its own character and lines, maybe not ideal, but somewhat interesting.
If you decide on Escape anyway, I suggest to look at Mazda Tribute which is mechanical twin of Escape. I think it looks a bit more refined, but you're likely to encounter the same mechanical issues as many other Escape/Tribute owners.
Comments
That makes the Audi A8 redundant. It's already struggling, so this might be the final blow.
I can see how the A4 is sportier than the Passat, but the A6 overlaps too much with the W8 and isn't really that sporty. Neither is the A8. So they aren't differentiated enough.
I'm telling you, Piech was great for VW but he's going too far. They are going to suffer a major hang over in 2 years, bleeding money like never before. You'll see.
-juice
-mike
-juice
Ed
I'd take a Seat any day. They are VW platform with real character. Build quality is now wonderful.
Skoda has a really bad long term joke reputation in the UK but their last few offerings have been very good. The Octavia is a lovely car, and huge inside. I am not sure if Doctor Who was ever shown on US TV but he had a time machine (the Tardis) which was the size of a Police box on the outside but a whole space craft inside. The Octavia is like that.
As far as brand identity goes, Skoda is now sitting where VW was fifteen years ago with Seat above it and VW above that. Audi is supposedly above that although I could never see the point of an A4 - smaller than a Passat for similar identity. The Passat is a seriously good car, still outstanding after 5 years. VW turns out some gems.
Cheers
Graham
Still can't get that DB4GT Zagato grocery getter out of my mind
Ed
Michelin X-1's and Dunlop SP series have been looked at favorably in earlier posts here (100-150 back). I will be replacing the "summer" tires on my '99 "S" this spring and will probably start with these models, looking for good/excellent wet performance. You can also check Consumer Reports, but bring a grain of salt or two.
Tire Rack has an informative web site: www.tirerack.com .
ALSO: Have your alignment checked/done thoroughly by a good shop. Some Subarus have been poorly aligned new, which has caused tire noise and uneven wear. Good luck & keep us posted.
John
PS: Anyone else have long-term experience with non-OEM tires, i.e. how tires are with 30K+ treadwear?? Many tires are fine at the start then get noisy or lose grip.
-mike
A car tire like the Michelin X-One can go 80K miles or more before it needs replacement. I have a friend who puts high mileage on his car, and he swears by them.
Craig
If you have an S model, the Nitto NT460 comes in 215/60R16 size and is a very quiet tire. I do not recommend it for snowy climates, though.
-juice
-mike
-mike
But if they're 8 years old and have 80k miles, by then they've probably deteriorated and dried out, so I'd replace them even if some tread was left over.
-juice
Re old tires: When I bought my Stude in fall '98, it had the original '63 bias-ply Firestone spare, still intact with nubs and all, never on the ground. What a museum piece, but one I tossed just the same. Bought a set of 5 radials and didn't look back - it's a driver, not a trailer queen.
Ed
-mike
John
-juice
Tires are always a comprimise. Grippiness and treadlife often are inversely related. I personally replace my tires well before I hit the wear indicators since I do rely on the all-season characteristics.
I typically keep my spares inflated close to the max pressure. It's easier to air them down to match the other three but not the other way around.
Ken
Also, seat covers; I admit I haven't looked yet, do they make cover for a 60/40 seat? Any recommendations for nice not too expensive seat covers for the front? Online or a particular store? We may not do front seat covers as we do take care of the interior but would like the option.
Thanks
The dealer did mention theirs, not Subaru's, 100,000 mile warranty that if it wasn't used I'd get my money back...only $1300+!, no hard sell, I said no, that was the end of it.
Craig
The rubber mats do not cover the footrest on the left, so that area will get dirty eventually. Personally I think they are worth it if you live in snowy area.
-Michael
These are the quotes I've gotten by e-mail so far plus a third vehicle I haven't asked about, yet:
Automatic Transmission
Auto Dimming Mirror/Compass
Custom Tailpipe Cover
Rear Cargo Net
Keyless Entry System
Cross Bars And Slats
Splash Guards
Rear Cargo Tray
Floor Mats
Rear Bumper Cover
MSRP $22067 will sell for $20792
Automatic Transmission
Tweeter Kit
6-Disk In-Dash CD Changer
Center Armrest Console
Custom Tailpipe Cover
Rear Cargo Net
Keyless Entry System
Cross Bars And Slats
Splash Guards
Rear Cargo Tray
Floor Mats
Rear Bumper Cover
MSRP $22,600 will sell for $21,179
Automatic Transmission
Cd Player
Center Armrest Console
Custom Tailpipe Cover
Rear Cargo Net
Keyless Entry System
Auto Dimming Mirror/Compass
Cross Bars And Slats
Splash Guards
Rear Cargo Tray
Floor Mats
Rear Bumper Cover
MSRP $22,524 will sell for ???
Your first list of equipment:
Automatic Transmission
except for this--Auto Dimming Mirror/Compass
Custom Tailpipe Cover
and this--- Rear Cargo Net
Keyless Entry System
Cross Bars And Slats
Splash Guards
Rear Cargo Tray
Floor Mats
Rear Bumper Cover
Is the closest to what I got. There were some dealers who had more options on the L but when I told them all I wanted was keyless, they had no trouble finding an L with just keyless.
As it turned out, the car we test drove, that had a sticker of $22,something, but they had a stuck a red tag from the mirror dropping it to 21667, which I ignored. I don't care what they quote you, ignore it unless it's the price you want.
I started at what I believe was invoice-which I got from 3 different car sites: 19225, plus 525 dest. chg, plus 116 keyless=19866.
I told one dealer 19866-- he said something about Oh GOD we can't sell it for that! Etc. I told him thanks for trying. A little while later I get an email from him and oh the price suddenly got lower...not 19866 but lower.
If you want things like the cdplayer etc. work out what that would cost from the invoice up.
Don't forget they get a 3% dealer holdback even if they do sell it at invoice so they don't lose money. Before I write a lot more than you may want to hear, do you know the invoice and manuf. price for all the options you want? If you do than you know that 20792 is about 800 too much. Believe me they will not sell you a car at a real loss to them. They may only make the dealer holdback on a car, but they're still making money. Shoot for invoice plus manuf. price for options.
Stick to your price,whicd in my opinion is invoice and manuf. price on all options.
R
R
John
If they are selling all forester L's at 19308, than pick the most expensive L they list and see if they'll actually sell it for 19308.
R
This is my first posting and would like to say how much I enjoy my 2001 Forester S. I drove it right of the show room floor. My wife and I really like it.
It now has about 16k miles and so far everything seems to be pretty good. I am a little surprised about the lower than expected gas mileage: 20 city, 25 highway but the car does run smooth with plenty of punch. I do have one major concern: it appears that my coolant level has recently started to drop slightly. I have filled it to the upper "full" line and check it while parked at the same parked space in the morning. I noticed this a couple of months ago and brought it to the dealer and was informed there seemed to be no problem. Well, after putting on about 1200 miles since, the level has dropped about 3/4", maybe an ounce or two. Since there are no apparent leaks I am assuming there may be some internal issues, hopefully not a cracked block or head.
The coolant can't be "evaporating", can it. Where could it escape to if everything was "normal"
Does anyone else have to replace coolant at regular intervals or do your levels stay the same? Or am I just being a little too paranoid about the whole thing?
Thanks for any response from my fellow Subie owners,
/Scott
I am sure those with experience will be more than happy to help you out. We're looking forward to hearing more from you.
tidester
Host
SUVs
1. At moderate speed on dry road, it felt that the tires were glued to the road to the extent that even the smallest surface undulations were being followed; hence the impression of being solidly set but a bit "squirmy." Surprisingly smooth and noiseless even on merely wet road. No whine at all. Even the concrete separation bumps seemed to be muffled.
2. In snow, ice and slush, the tires were awesome.
Starting and stopping on hills were "no sweat" and the overall sense of stability was a dramatic contrast to my "white knuckle" experience on the Yokos last February on a similar trip.
3. Another big and appreciated suprise was that I was not hurt in average mpg - a shade below 27.
Temps will be back in the 40's this week, so comes the hassle of changing back, but at least I feel that I am well stocked for the next storm.
masan: I believe the fabrics are the same, so it's just the color. I have beige but sort of prefer the grey interior.
Renato: I went from 205/70R15 to 225/60R16 (slightly wider and taller, but not much) and have had nothing but good results. My tires are summer-biased, so I'd get something different in a snowy climate.
The 3" we just got was fun, but unfortunately it's not that common in DC. We only get 2-3 snow storms per year. Snow tires work wonders but for here it's overkill.
Scott: try checking the radiator itself (on a cold engine only, of course). So long as it's close to full, the overflow container level is far less important.
-juice
My questions is has anyone else experienced this or is it just me? :-) Same thing in the Outback.
Although I liked the Forester, I was disappointed in the lack of cubby space (yes, I know, I was spoiled by the van) and the flimsy cup holders over the radio. But then I'm being a bit picky, I guess.
Mary
But I gotta be honest, we're all shaped differently, and if you cannot get comfy, don't buy it. Try test driving another, just to make sure your back wasn't having a bad day, and ask the sales person to help you work with all the available adjustments (fore, aft, tilt, front height, rear height, and lumbar). If he fails, don't buy it.
-juice
R
~~~Pat
I'm going to test drive again after I go see a chiropractor and will do as you suggest.
I do like the Forester and am leaning that way, why with its good track record for reliability and safety, etc. I did try the Ford Escape and was torn between the two except that the Escape felt chinsy inside but felt a tad more comfortable. No track record on the Escape's reliablity, etc. Good gov crash results, etc. But like I said, I'm leaning towards the Forester. I've heard nothing but good things about it, here, in snow country where I live.
Mary
P.S. Pat88...I'd like the red, myself.
Ross
Greg
-mike
Forester, OTOH, has its own character and lines, maybe not ideal, but somewhat interesting.
If you decide on Escape anyway, I suggest to look at Mazda Tribute which is mechanical twin of Escape. I think it looks a bit more refined, but you're likely to encounter the same mechanical issues as many other Escape/Tribute owners.