Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

nygreg

Was at the Subie dealer this morning. They also sell Jeeps. Checked out the Liberty. Really nice. Too bad it's probably only skin deep.

Greg

ateixeira

Actually, CR did just come out with a reliability rating for the Escape, and it was "Much Worse than Average". Also, IIHS did crash tests and the Escape was "Marginal".

Forester scores were "Better than Average" and "Good", respectively.

I like the Tribute's styling, and Mazda offers a 3/50 warranty vs. Ford's 3/36. But Subaru tops them both with 5/60.

I test drove and like the Jeep. It did fell a bit "tipsy", but it's not meant to be driven as aggressively as a Forester can go. Autoweek rolled one over, and I found DCX's excuse rather lame (uneven pavement, as if road crews check that all the time). A european magazine also rolled one over, so it wasn't a fluke. DCX should make DSC standard, like they did for the ML.

-juice

tincup47

The funny thing about the CR rating was that it did not reflect the rating breakdowns in their chart, which were all above average and are supposedly from polling their readers. Doesn't sound particularly scientific to arrive at ratings that ignore their own readers real world experience.

paisan

I drove my buddy's liberty, it drove nice, peppy and all, 2 big complaints:

1) intrusion of the tranny/t-case into the footwell areas of both front passengers

2) cheap fascias on the dash, and no gear indicator on the dash (only next to the center mounted gear selector)

-mike

adanne

Hi, I am new to the forum so I apologize if this has already been discussed dozens of times. I have an S model Forester with the 215/60/16 tire size. My Geolanders wore out very prematurely, which I understand is quite common. They were the worst tires in the snow that I have ever owned. In the meantime, I have had a very difficult time finding tires that are H rated that have aggressive treds. I purcashed Toyo Spectrum TR rated tires. They seem to grip the road well, but they are noisy and my Forester just doesn't have that nice "car-like" feel to it. Does anyone know if this is due to the speed rating change or the tire itself. The tire dealer gives a 30 trial, so I can change these. I was thinking of changing to the Toyo Ultra 800, because it has the longest tire warranty in the industry. Does anyone have any suggestions. I live in the northeast, so I do need tires that will do fairly well in snow. Have other people changed to a lower speed rating successfully? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

armac13

I had Toyos on my Golf and was less than impressed. They lasted forever - they were just getting warmed up after ~ 40k miles - but I found them to be harsh, moderately noisy and not very responsive. The Geolanders on my Forester are wearing well after 25,000 km. (~15k miles) and I consider them marginal in the little snow I've been able to find in Vancouver over the last two winters. I have heard (but can not confirm) that T rated tires are harsher and harder on the suspension.

Ross

tidester

Welcome to the Town Hall! We're looking forward to hearing more from you.

By the way, right after you submit a post you will get a duplicate if you refresh the page. It's a "feature" of our software! ;-)

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kens

I think the change in ride and noise is due more to the change in tire model vs. the change in speed rating (although the two are not completely independent).

If a quiet ride is your main concern, you may want to look into Grand Touring tires rather than performance tires. Check out a site like Tire Rack (www.tirerack.com) for more info. Also, you'll most likely NOT find an all-season tire that performs well in snow. Nothing beats dedicated winter tires.

FYI, my Geolandars lasted 45K miles and they've been a good all-around tire.

Ken

adanne

Ken, you are one of the lucky ones. I wrote to Yokahma informing them of the short life of the Geolander and they said that the average life of the tire was 25,000 to 30,000 miles and that Subaru selected them for the quality of the ride. I do agree that it was that "car-like" ride that sold me. I also wonder if the factory alignment was off since there are so many with such premature wear, while a few others like yourself have gotten fair mileage. Consumer Report did rate them as poor in ice and snow. I seldom travel in bad weather, so buying a tire that it a little more aggressive rather than snow tires makes sense for my driving. The choices in the H rated tire are far fewer for the type of tire I am looking for. I have seen some that people have been happy with such as the Goodyear Regatta 2, but the buyers were mostly sedan owners. Fortunately this tire dealer gave me a month to think about it. thanks

paisan

Just a side note, the Geolander HT which I think is the same or similar tire to the ones on the Forester is stock on the G-wagon.

-mike

goldencouple1

Automotive News reports today: Forester launch Feb.6 at the Chicago Show. Japanese launch to follow Feb. 12.

torquan

The SRS Airbag warning light came up at +/- 40,000 miles on my Forester 98'. The dealer warned me that a new airbag module will approximatively cost 1500 $. What else could it be if not the module?

mikeh19

Hey Everyone,
I'm in the process of deciding whether or not to get Full-Replacement Value insurance for my 2002 L from the Dealership or from my insurance company. The Dealer is more but I can get coverage for up to 5yrs, but it's $$ up-front. Insurance company is only 10% extra to my current annual policy but I can only get coverage for up to 2yrs.
Is it worth getting the insurance for the long term or will I get enough from 'the book' price? What is the rate of depreciation of the Forester that insurance companies use? Has anyone had any experience with this? As owners, we've all raved about the high re-sale value but how is that reflected this 'book' price? Thanks.
Mike

paisan

I believe that all airbag stuff is covered for a lot longer than the std. warranty because it's a safety issue? I'd just pull the airbag fuse and put some tape over the SRS light

-mike

ateixeira

It's funny, we were just talking about the 30 day trial for tires in another thread.

A longer lasting tire usually has a harder, less sticky compound, so it may not grip the road as well. But it might address the noise. I'm not familiar with Toyos, though.

I would not worry about the speed rating too much, since you're not going to drive over 100mph, but do look at the load rating. I think the stock tire is:

215/60R16 85H

The important number is the 85, which tells you how much weight the tire is designed to handle. You do not want to go to a lower number, or it will adversely affect your payload (how much weight you can carry).

You can also check the UTGQ ratings. They will be something like 180BB. The first number is the tread life rating, the second is heat resistance, the third is wet traction. I would try to find something 200AA or better. In fact, if you go with a lower speed rating (S or T), just make sure it still has a heat rating just as good as the stock tire does.

So, we get to see the Forester 6 days earlier than Japan? Wow, for once, we are first! They usually preceed us by 6 months!

torquan: isn't it under warranty? It's a safety feature, so it might be covered. Could be just a short circuit or something. I rented a Montana minivan in Florida that was brand new and it had the same light go on. They told me to keep driving it for the week, that it was OK unless it blinked. But check with Subaru, for sure.

Mike: it's hard to forecast depreciation 3-4 years from now, but so far the Forester has done well. A new model is around the corner and that could have some effect, so waiting for a 2003 could help you.

-juice

kate5000

My Geolandars were in a very good shape before one of them got ruined by a big nail on the road(at 27K), and then I had to change all 4 to Yokohama Avis Touring. I actually wanted to get new set of Geolandars, but the shop did not have them in stock.

What was the pressure you ran Geolandars at? My dealer actually recommends 42 psi (gasp!) for Geolandars. I never went that high, but did like the "road feel" and handling at 35-38 psi.

The Yoko Avis tires are not bad, a bit less noisy than Geolandars. The problem with Avis is that their max psi is 35 and geolandars's 44. I run on Avis at 30-32 psi. I get a bit less bumpy ride, but not nearly as much of road feel, and handling suffers a bit. I also get worse gas mileage on the Avis tires as compared to Geolandars.

I still have a set of 3 Geolandars in my garage, with circumference only 5/32 less then brand new ones. Any good ideas how to put them to use eventually?

odd1

rictom-you might check out wetokole.com for seat covers. I'm intrigued by these but have no personal experience to share. I've made several posts trying to find anyone who could give me feedback on them with no success.

adanne- How long have the new tires been on? The last time I changed tires I was ready to take them back due to how loud they where but 100 or so miles later they quieted down considerably.

rwood1682

Hi everyone, just bought a new '02 Forester S this past Sunday and so far I'm very happy with it.

I am interested in buying a couple of accessories, the brush guard and fender flares, and was wondering if anyone had experience with installing these themselves. Thanks in advance!

ateixeira

I installed the fender flares myself.

They come with two strips of two-side tape, plus they bolt down in about 4-6 places. It's not hard, just do it slowly and carefully, and clean the car before you start.

If you end up buying it, I'll e-mail you some photos and a few more tips. The trick is to remove the lower tape backing first, then the upper one, with the flares already bolted in place. Also, you have to peel just enough off so you can reach the backing after you bolt them down.

It's easier than it sounds.

-juice

kens

To be fair, I drive a lot of highway miles so I would imagine my tire wear is a lot better than average.

The stock Geolandars on the Forester S have a load rating of 94H with a max load of 1477lbs. UTQG is only 200BA, though.

Wow, I can't believe we get to see the new Forester before Japan also! That's pretty cool. I wonder if it had to do with how many more Foresters they sold over here in N. America.

Ken

ateixeira

I was looking for that info, thanks.

So what I was saying was to avoid any tires with a load rating lower than "94" in this case. I think my tires are "97", so I'm in good shape, but they're not suitable for snowy climates.

200BA is not bad. The Duelers on the L model are just 180BB. Definitely look for an "A" in traction, so you don't hydroplane into an crash. Try to get an "A" for heat also, but it might be a bit harder to find.

-juice

mainemojo

I posted here a couple of weeks ago about the CEL on our new '02 S+ coming on at about 400 miles. After it happened repeatedly, and the car idled unevenly and revved up and down repeatedly after cold starts, we took the car back to the dealer, who said the computer codes were "confusing." They kept the car overnight and replaced the O2 sensor. But the rough idle/revving continued, and four days later the CEL came on again. Back to the dealer for another overnight stay.

This time they said it was a too-rich fuel mixture that may have fouled a plug. I'm not buying it; the still has the rough idle in the morning, and even after being driven for 10 or 15 minutes it will hesitate and lurch as if it wants to stall after stops at traffic lights and intersections.

Anyone have a similar experience or a suggested course of action? The dealer is 65 miles away -- not convenient for frequent visits -- and we're losing our patience, not to mention our faith in Subaru. (The Forester, BTW, is our fourth Subie.)

Mo

thecat

>I still have a set of 3 Geolandars in my garage, with circumference only 5/32 less then brand new ones. Any good ideas how to put them to use eventually?<

Kate .. I'm thinking Harley 3 Wheeler

- Hutch

armac13

This sounds like a job for Super-Patti. You might want to check her email address under her Subaru_Team user name and drop her a line. She has a way of getting solutions started. Good luck.

Ross

kens

Yes, this sounds like a job for Patti. She's good about following the Subaru-related topics. If you don't hear from her, try re-posting.

Ken

larry2345

I have a 98 Forester S. I want to change the spark plugs but they seem to be impossible to get to. I tried to buy a Chilton repair manual but they do not have one for the Forester. Does anyone know how I can change the plugs? Is there any Manual I can buy which can show me how to do this? Thanks for your help.. Larry

kens

I've read that you basically need to remove the washer fluid resivoir to access the plugs on the drivers side. You may also need a ratchet extention as well.

Ken

krzycho

Just received K&N filter for Forester S 2001.Can somebody refresh my memory about installation of it-I mean disconnecting battery or removing main fuse for about 10 minutes, stuff like that. Thank you, Chris.

mainemojo

... Thanks for responding. And BTW, the CEL came on again today. It's back to the dealer tomorrow -- for the third time since we took delivery Dec. 29.

Mo

subaru_team

I'm on it! Can you please call us to get a case started? Let the Rep. you speak to know that I would like to see the case. Please make sure you have your VIN? I'm sorry about the problem, but we'll do our best to make it right.

Patti

p0926

Mo- Something definitely isn't right and frequent 60-mile trips for service gotta get old real quick. Any chance of taking it to another dealer to be worked on? I suggest you call 1-800-SUBARU3 and request their assistance in fixing whatever is wrong. It may very well be something minor but it can still ruin what should be a wonderful new car expereince.

-Frank

mainemojo

Patti: My wife, Barbara, has already contacted SOA to start a case, and will call back to mention your interest. Thanks for helping out.

Frank: There are probably three closer dealers, but we do business with these guys -- two new Subies and a used Acura in the last few years -- because of the way we've been treated. But I've spent so much time there in the past three weeks I'm starting to feel like an employee .

Mo

ateixeira

Mo: sounds like a tough problem to trouble-shoot. Though the dealer seems to be trying. I fix difficult software problems and know how they feel. :-)

It may be the plug wires, the ECU, or an injector. I'd maybe ask for a loaner car, then leave it overnight. Ask them to fix it, then test is extensively before returning it to you.

Remember, the sales and service departments are usually separate. If you feel like the other dealer is too far, you shouldn't feel bad about getting service a little closer to home. I'm sure they'll still sell you another car, gladly.

To change the air filter, I found it easier to remove the intake tubing from the MAF forward. If you take the whole air filter box out, you can better place the filter. That also eases access to the spark plugs, BTW, so change the air filter when you change the spark plugs to save time.

Ken is right about the other side, you may have to disconnect the windshield washer reservoir.

-juice

larry2345

thanks Ken and Axteixeira. It looked like I would have to remove the windshield reservior and the air filter in order to reach the plugs. I guess it will be easier if I first siphon the reservior.I am going to give it a try this weekend. i will let you know how I make out. Has anyone changed the plugs and wires by themselves? Was it difficult? Larry

ateixeira

Not yet. The plugs have a service interval of 60k miles. Mine has just 43k miles, and since my gas mileage is around 25mpg I'm not going to mess with success. :-)

-juice

kens

Larry -- you might want to try doing a search at i-club forums for spark plug changing. Don't forget to throw in search terms like DOHC or Phase I to get our particular engine.

Juice -- Just 43K miles!? Sandy is still a baby! 66K miles and counting here.

Ken

mainemojo

Thanks for the encouragement. I really don't have any reason, so far, to blame the dealership service dept.; it sounds like they're going by the book on a hard-to-diagnose problem. But we've left the car overnight twice, and I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to keep it again tomorrow. At this rate they'll have had more time with it than we've had, although their assortment of loaners is quite nice .

And I know the sales and service ends are separate profit centers, etc., but I was treated so incredibly and stereotypically badly by our local dealer when we were shopping for a Legacy GT Ltd. a year and a half ago that I've sworn I'll never do any business -- sales or service -- with them again. Call me stubborn ...

Mo

FrankMc

If you are unsatisified with your treatment at a business, but continue to do business there this shows them that this is an acceptable way to do business. I call you practical.

Frank

larry2345

thanks for your help Ken and Ateixeira. Larry

jerrys2

My 2002 S+ came with the standard keyless entry system...I would like the add the security system.
Price from the dealer is $248. Has anyone added system after market? Also does the price seem reasonable?

Thanks,

Jerry

ateixeira

Ken: my pace slowed a little when I got a 2nd car (the Miata). I think I've put about 7k miles on the Miata and about 12k miles on the Forester since I did that (about 15 months ago).

So I guess the Forester is still my primary car. Much as I love the Miata, the Subie does all the big duties, including hauling the family and all trips.

-juice

goldencouple1

The other day I was driving down to El Paso. We'd had cooler weather, and I notices a peculiar "click" feeling in the clutch every time I shifted gears. It only seemed to happen for the first 15 minutes or so of the drive and then it went away -- "cold" I thought. Then the next day, the wife and I were running errands -- same thing! A "click" feeling -- no sound -- just a little "hitch" in the clutch, I could feel it right through the sole of my boot. It was a slight hesitation in the clutch, I was thinking. This worried me a little (here I could insert the celebrated story of the buzzing noise under my Mazda pickup and how I crawled around under the truck at every opportunity on vacation, much to embarrassment of my wife)so I investigated by stopping the car and pushing the clutch down with my hand to get a good feel of how it was working... And then, I fixed the problem! Right there, with no tools! I pulled the rubber mat back about half an inch and the clutch pedal stopped hitting it every time it was depressed -- problem solved. Clutch working great again.

cyberpirate

Jerry: I bought the subaru security system from www.subaru-parts.com for about $140 and installed it myself. Installation is pretty straight forward. You can download the instructions from their web-site and then decide if you are comfortable installing it yourself.

Hope this helps!

armac13

I had exactly the same experience with my former car - VW Golf. It took me a couple of days before I investigated the first time. It was driving me odd though. About twice a year I had to perform that "repair".

Ross

adanne

Has anyone had any experience with the new Dunlop Sport SP A2? They seem to get good reviews from consumers on tirerack.com. They are relatively inexpensive and seemed to be rated well for an all purpose tire. Also, has anyone used Cooper winter tires in the past. thanks

sierratrip

To Jerry and Cyberpirate,

Since my 2002 Forester L didn't come with the key less entry what is the cost to purchase this option? It seems as though the plug-in for the system is just under the dash on the drivers side (lower left). Is this something I can get on-line and install myself like the security upgrade you mentioned for $140? Or would the dealer have to install this? Also what all does the key less system do? Does it turn on the the interior lights for example when the doors unlock? Does it automatically lock the doors when the engine is started? etc,etc. One more thing does the security system have an ignition kill feature? Thanks in advance for the feedback!
-Donn

pal086

sierratrip -- Answering out of line -- but I believe that the security system has an ignition kill feature. The keyless entry turns on the interior light on unlocking (illuminated entry). however, it does not auto lock on starting the engine.

For all others -- a question. My Forester (S Prem) has reached 3100 miles (appx two months). The manual says that engine oil should be chnaged at 3000miles UNLESS driven under *severe* conditions when it should be changed at 3750miles ! This sounds somewhat counterintuitive to me -- shouldn't the oil chnage be more frequent when the car is driven under severe conditions ? Anyway, I don't know enough about cars to know this, so I am asking all the experts out there...

Oh about the car -- so far it has driven like a dream. Probably the first car (though this is only my third) that I haven't had any chance for complaining (well almost none -- see below). Love everyhting about it -- especially the envy of friends when they see the moonroof !! Probably the only complaint was the ride felt a little bumpy. Found that the tire pressure was a little high -- 32 psi. Called the service dept at our dealer and they told me that they keep the pressure high to increase longevity of the tires.
The tire hasn't done too badly in what little snow we have had in upstate NY (we live in Rochester, not Buffalo !!) -- but recently I can hear some rattling noises from the back doors whenever I go over a bump -- my theory is that the speakers might have come loose on the back door panels -- is that possible. Anyhow, I will have the service guys take a look at it when I go in for the oil change.

Thanx.

pal086

Duh ! I wasn't reading properly -- the book says 3750miles *interval* INSTEAD of 7500miles for severe driving conditions.

The first oil change is recommended at 3000miles -- second @ 7500 and then every 7500 unless as above.

So another question -- how come the recommendation is 7500miles instead of the every 3000miles that was recommended on the previous cars I woned (95 Escort and 97 Galant) ? What is the usual oil change frequency for other Forester owners ?

kens

If the security system is relatively unchanged, then it's just an upgrade to the keyless entry system. On my 98 Forester it was a matter of installing the shock sensor and alarm horn. The keyless entry is prewired for it.

A buddy of mine put the Sport A2 on his Forester S. They seem to perform a little better than the Geolandars according to him, but the difference isn't huge.

Dunno why the other cars recommended 3000. My previous 97 Camry recommended 5000 and our Jetta lists 10000. For my Forester, I changed every 5000 with conventional oil.

Ken

ateixeira

Donn: keyless unlocks all 4 doors plus the hatch (very useful). Also the interior lights do turn on, and fade off slowly when you lock, which is a nice touch. No key scratches around the key hole, very convenient. Once you've had it, you can't do without it.

I do my oil every 7500 miles, but lots of my driving is highway and trips. I use my Miata for short errands.

-juice