Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Did you get a great deal? Let us know in the Values & Prices Paid section!
Meet your fellow owners in our Owners Clubs

Pontiac G8 vs BMW 3-Series vs Lexus IS 350

2»

Comments

  • kc567567kc567567 Posts: 29
    "Pontiac G8 vs BMW 3-Series vs Lexus IS 350"

    I’m sorry but the imaginary G8, will at best, take 3 or 4 years, and need near perfect reliability and road manners to even sniff the BMW for the king of the hill ,,,, not even a debate worthy of the BMW.

    I chose the 350 over the 3 series simply because the Lexus had more character, was faster and I had greater confidence in the local Lexus dealer. The BMW is the leader in this segment though, and its interior is far superior ( and a lot fewer rattles).

    Maybe the Infinity G35, or even the Lincoln Zephyr, may have a chance to join the elite but forget the G8.

    KC
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    If I was going to buy a G8, I'd sure enjoy seeing you in my rear view :P

    Rocky
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    If I were to buy a GM, it would be the Z-06 and then I would never see you in my rear view! ;)

    The G8 is an example of the future of GM. International roots will continue to ensure that GM comes back to life, IMO.

    Regards,
    OW
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    If I were to buy a GM, it would be the Z-06 and then I would never see you in my rear view!

    huh ? why cuz it would only be a flash as you went by me ? :P

    The G8 is an example of the future of GM. International roots will continue to ensure that GM comes back to life, IMO.

    Well the rumor is if this car is pretty popular they are going to build this and other Zeta's here in the U.S. as it would be cheaper than importing them. I'd rather buy em made here at home but them being made in australia, isn't all that bad. At least they aren't made by slave labor in China. ;)

    OW, I can't warm up to the G8's grill. I don't like it. It's not horrible but it's enough to where I wouldn't buy one. The holden's look a lot better. If they brought over the Holden HSV with 500+ hp. I'd probably own one especially in red with magneride MRC. :shades:

    Rocky
  • holdenguyholdenguy Posts: 145
    Ahh, yes, your dream car Rocky.
    Just get a front end sent over mate ;-)
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    I don't like em' enough to spend that kind of extra money on one mate. That would be $2-3K easy just for the part and shipping. ;)

    Rocky
  • fenwahfenwah Posts: 58
    I don't want the government to control healthcare. Look at what they've done to social security, the national deficit, getting veterans hospital care in a timely manner. The list goes on and on. The government does not need to control healthcare. Once you do that, the quality of physicians in this country goes downhill...and fast.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Well it's getting to the point only the rich will have healthcare because the government isn't doing enough to control costs. :(

    As far as the G8, going up against BMW's 3/5 seriesand the Lexus IS, it does a great job. The G8, might lack in a few area's but once you factor in price it makes a very competitive alternative. ;)

    -Rocky
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    IMHO, the quality of physicians available to the general public in the US follows the quality of the auto manufacturers. Was great but no more.

    Regards,
    OW

    P.S. The G8 still looks boring to me.

    Regards,
    OW
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "IMHO, the quality of physicians available to the general public in the US follows the quality of the auto manufacturers. Was great but no more."

    You are kidding, right? I'll go to Germany or Japan for my cars, but point to anyplace in the world you would rather send your spouse or kids for a medical diagnosis or procedure than Johns Hopkins, Mayo or Cleveland Clinics, or University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, just to name a few.

    And Rocky, throw the ambulance chasing trial lawyers into a deep tar pit and you will make a lot of headway on controlling costs. The vascular surgeon that saved my mother's life pays $175,000 per year in malpractice insurance premiums - and he's never had a single case brought against him.

    Healthcare in this country is far from perfect, for sure. But in a country that can't produce a car attractive enough for my tastes and preferences in the past 30 years, I'm pretty thankful for those physicians who slug through 10+ years of post graduate school and internships and take real pride in their profession. Try finding that intestinal fortitude on the floor of a GM factory.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    You are kidding, right?

    No, I mentioned the general public. Not everyone can go to the top of the class medical establishments in this country. The problem is not the best in the country but the availability of the best to all. For every one top establishment and staff there are many that fall way short.

    I know there is no panacea, but it's not as easy for everyone to get the best care every time. There are many less-than-average service providers.

    Just like the auto manufacturers, there are good but mostly disappointing results in the past 30 years. Take Pontiac as a Division. Sad story, IMO.

    Regards,
    OW
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "The problem is not the best in the country but the availability of the best to all."

    Perhaps, but it's a lot better here than most of the rest of the world. Read an article some time ago about Ben Carson, the renowned neurosurgeon at Johns Hopkins. A significant percentage of his patients are of limited means, many w/o health insurance. When we took my daughter to Children's Hospital a few years ago when she broke her elbow, the waiting room was full of what obviously were people who use the emergency room as their convenient (and free) doctor's office. As I'm sure you aware, a community hospital is not allowed to turn anyone away for lack of financial ability to pay. Want to get a unique perspective on the need for immigration reform, talk with an emergency room physician. Of course it's the working class, bill paying general public that gets stiffed in the process. The average American family of 4 is actually paying for about 6.

    I have been known to blast the auto industry as one of the worst examples of American business. For no good reason. It's one thing for the Chinese to steal textile jobs with 20 cent an hour wages. But GM and Ford have lost to everyone. Japan on quality and reliability, Korea on affordability, Germany on engineering and performance. The fact that Porsche makes some of the best engieered cars in the world, then ships 60%+ of them over to the United States because our market can afford them but our industry can't produce them, is just as sad as your Pontiac story.

    GE, by the way, makes the best locomotives in the world in my hometown of Erie, PA. Shipping hundreds to China at a cool $3 million a pop. With union labor no less. It hasn't been easy for them to remain competitive over the years, but they've succeeded.
  • Karen_SKaren_S Posts: 5,092
    I don't see anything in the title of this discussion asking for comments on immigration, health care, and jobs going overseas. Please keep your comments pertinent to the comparison of these vehicles.

    Thanks for your cooperation.
  • kivikivi Posts: 12
    yuk ! there is nothing that would make me consider the Pontiac G8 over the 3 series car. It is precisely because of the product that I that it makes me shudder to consider the two in the same breath. My wife has had several 3 series cars over the years, and mixed into that time period we have had 3 different GM products. The contrasts between them are night and day. They simply do not belong to the same category. When BMW announced the next M3 (the V8), it became the first car in many years to capture my interest, and I will save my pennies for another year and continue to drive my beater in the mean time (wife gets the nice cars). The 3 series cars are amazing cars to drive, and have very very few comparable peers. The G8 does not belong in the same group as any of the 3 series cars. Just because the G8 has a V8, does not make it a contender.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    Agree with you,kivi. The best thing about the G8 is the car is not even available yet and we know the drill. Boring as usual. Get the Camaro out already!

    The bottom line to this discussion is HAHAHAHAHA! ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 11,028
    being the saviour of GM?

    I don't see any remarkable news on the G8 yet?

    What gives? :lemon:
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Try the FV discussion. This one's a comparo between three vehicles. ;)
  • sknabtsknabt Posts: 14
    In the late '90s I got do drive a buddy's 7-series Bimmer. He claimed he paid over $70,000 for it. I was salivating when I started it up. Probably the biggest automotive disappointment in my life. A horrid drive. The suspension was punishing and the steering required far too much effort at moderate speeds. The hard seats quickly wore out my back and backside. It was a stunningly gorgeous car to eye from the outside but, that aside, a waste. I also got to drive a couple years ago a 3-series. Better ride but not particularly comfortable seats. All this coming from a guy driving a Honda S2000, hardly a car devoted to creature comforts.

    I've never owned anything but Japanese. The Pontiac G8 is the first American car I've seriously considered owning in 30 years. It's top on my list when I replace my beater in 2009.

    Multiple reviews of the Holden/Vauxhall have compared in favorably to Mercedes and Bimmers. Not that it really matters. Because all the Mercedes/Bimmer owners I've known are status buyers. Nobody's going to suggest there's any prestige to be had owning a Pontiac.

    Had I unlimited funds, I'd keep an open mind and give BMW another shot. They've bloated up a bit so their sense of style has deteriorated quite a bit but they're still attractive cars. There's no doubt their interior is going to be far superior in material choices than a G8. But some cost-cutting on Pontiac's part isn't creating any major gaffs from what I've seen and read.

    But we all have budgets we must live within and to find a Bimmer which competes on paper with the G8 in size and power you have to climb up their product line to the $58,500 550i. The entry-level (or maybe not with a 1-series brewing) 3-series isn't in the picture except in price as, per BMWs habit, the price of 'status' will suck most people's wallets dry. The G8 GT will base sticker thousands less than the cheapest 3-series.

    And the costs don't end there. The costs of ownership greatly favor the G8. Bimmers suck premium gas, are notoriously expensive to maintain once they're off warranty, and can't boast reliability to match their fat premium pricing.

    Bimmers are for leasers. I tend to own a car for 10 years so I need something I can maintain. GM's quality is hit or miss so I'll give Consumer Reports a hard look before I take the dive.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 12,286
    Bimmers suck premium gas

    First off, a bit of research would show that most BMW cars average 22-27 mpg under real world driving conditions. I doubt that a midsize V8 Pontiac will do significantly better. And as for premium gas, just do the math. Let's assume that you drive 15K per year and average 25 mpg- that comes out to 600 gallons per year. If you pay 20 cents more for premium that means you'll pay the princely sum of $120 extra per year. That's 10 bucks a month, or 33 cents per day. Wow.

    are notoriously expensive to maintain once they're off warranty, and can't boast reliability to match their fat premium pricing.

    Really? The maintenance and repair costs for my 10 year old 3 Series have averaged less than $500 per year over the life of the car. That figure includes ALL maintenance and repair expenses as well as three sets of 16" Z-rated rubber. I've replaced one set of pads/rotors, the serpentine belts and idlers, the timing chain tensioner(DIY $55 and 10 minutes), a brake light switch and a thermostat. That's it. And did I mention that it also sees several track days per year?

    I tend to own a car for 10 years so I need something I can maintain.

    Me too; I took delivery of my 3 Series twelve years ago this week. It might not be true in your case, but I've found that many people who discuss BMW repair costs are usually relying on second, third, or fourth-hand information- "My cousin's dentist had a patient who knew a friend that talked to some guy at a party, and the guy told him that he overheard somebody at Walmart say that they read somewhere on the internet that it cost $1500 to change the oil in a BMW." Sure, some people DO pay ridiculous amounts to service their Bimmers, but in most cases it's due to the fact that they made a very uninformed choice when seeking quality service facility.
    As for the G8, I hope it turns out to be a nice quick, and inexpensive car- if it is, I'll certainly consider one for my next commuter sled. I almost bought a GTO, but I couldn't stomach the "Mutated Cavalier on Steroids" exterior styling.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    RB, I considered the GTO but the exterior did the same to me. Now that I see them once in a blue moon on the road, I know I did not make a mistake.

    Again, I do not see anything GM makes that says "i just got to get that".

    Hopefully the Camaro will change that impression. The 'vette is still the only thing worthwhile in their stable of cars.

    Regards,
    OW
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 12,286
    Again, I do not see anything GM makes that says "i just got to get that".

    I built a Q-Ship Monte Carlo back in the late '70s. Back then, GM was still king of the hill- in the US at least. I've bought a couple of domestics since- both used: a 1984 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe(work beater) and the 1999 Wrangler I still own. I was going to buy a Shelby GT instead of the Mazdaspeed but I couldn't find a dealer who hadn't slapped a $15K ADM sticker on the side window. I suspect we'll see the same situation with the new Camaro- particularly with respect to the SS/Z28 models.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    I was going to buy a Shelby GT instead of the Mazdaspeed but I couldn't find a dealer who hadn't slapped a $15K ADM sticker on the side window. I suspect we'll see the same situation with the new Camaro- particularly with respect to the SS/Z28 models.

    It is why GM will flounder. Suck the life out of the customer! It will probably be similar to the G8. Initial sales will be high due to the low supply high demand. Then, the lack of inventory and long import times will drive customers away. Finally, lack of interest will initiate incentives to get customers back...instead of being fair up front. Sickening!

    It will happen with the CTS and the Lambda triplets. Even the salesman are dumbfounded at the apparent lack of logical execution even when a decent product is introduced!

    Regards,
    OW
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 12,286
    Initial sales will be high due to the low supply high demand. Then, the lack of inventory and long import times will drive customers away. Finally, lack of interest will initiate incentives to get customers back

    That's exactly what happened with the PT Cruiser and the latest version of the Thundebird. Initial demand was very high, but there was not a lot of cars to move. When supply caught up with demand so many were cranked out that they sat on lots- even with factory incentives out the wazoo. It seems that only MINI has been successful at maintaining a fine balance between supply and demand.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Probably the biggest automotive disappointment in my life. A horrid drive. The suspension was punishing and the steering required far too much effort at moderate speeds. The hard seats quickly wore out my back and backside.

    Exactly the difference between BMW and Caddy. You get blueguydotcom into a 7 series and he would say it's too floaty. :confuse
  • I have owned a 2004 X3 and now a 2006 325i. They both handle great. They are very expensive for what you get. Not very reliable, A/C problems, radio replacement, interior trim worn in a short period. Paint coming off center console and driver's door grip. Weather stripping on both cars on both fron doors had to be replaced a number of times.
    Not much bang for the buck. We are brainwashed with these status vehicles and except all their short comings. :confuse:
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    Going in, that's what I anticipated could be the problem so I leased it. The answer I received was a new wiring harness to fix a air bag sensor problem but since then perfect.

    Regards,
    OW
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 12,286
    We are brainwashed with these status vehicles and except(sic) all their short comings.

    My experience with owning/servicing/competing in BMWs goes back to 1983, and for me at least, it's not about status. Rather, it's about an involving driving experience and an excellent balance of performance and comfort. My wife currently drives a 57,000 mile 2004 X3, which we purchased as a CPO. The console was replaced at purchase to correct the finish chipping, and an SRS sensor has been replaced. Other that that the car has been perfect. Ditto for my 1995 3 Series, which I purchased new. At 112,000 miles, non-scheduled repairs have consisted of a couple of idler pulleys, a thermostat and a brake light switch. And yes, I do own non-BMWs as well; my garage also contains a Mazdaspeed3, a Jeep TJ Wrangler, and a Triumph Speed Triple.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    A rather obvious question is why did you decide to get a second BMW? I hope you aren't that brainwashed by status. Personally, I don't think BMW has any status advantage over Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, and some of the others. As roadburner says, the driving dynamics are what sets them apart. But if I had a negative experience like you, I certainly wouldn't come back looking for a second spanking.
  • jrynnjrynn Posts: 162
    I have owned a 2004 X3 and now a 2006 325i. They both handle great. They are very expensive for what you get. Not very reliable, A/C problems, radio replacement, interior trim worn in a short period. Paint coming off center console and driver's door grip. Weather stripping on both cars on both fron doors had to be replaced a number of times.
    Not much bang for the buck. We are brainwashed with these status vehicles and except all their short comings


    I own a 2006 BMW X3. It's the most trouble-free vehicle I've ever had. Nothing but routine (which, with BMW, is included in the purchase price) service visits in the 2 years, 1 month I've had it. (Knock on wood.)

    Before my children were born, I owned a 2004 Acura TSX. Even it was in the shop for things like broken seatbelt retractors and other non-routine items.

    But that's all beside the point. I'm posting on the 3 series board because the service loaners I've gotten from BMW have been 3 series and because while I was visiting relatives over Christmas I had a chance to put about 100 miles on a relative's Lexus IS350.

    If I were shopping now for a sports sedan, I'd take the BMW in a heartbeat. Pure personal preference for a car that's "fun to drive."

    But if you can't feel a difference in 20 or 30 miles of test driving -- or if the difference doesn't matter to you -- then by all means, go with a less expensive option.
  • Relative sells them. Tried to keep peace in the family. No more BMWs
  • ingvaringvar Posts: 205
    Not a chance... G8 is a HUGE full-sized sedan. I don't know who will cross shop G8 and 335i.
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Posts: 1,724
    Though the new G8 is a nice upgrade from the previous models. A nice start, a little late, but a nice start to what GM "could" produce. Though performance specs may be close to the BMW, it is not BMW. Certainly has more bang for the buck in the used car market though. BMW, hold its value very well.

    They might cross shop only in the case the G8 is cheaper, but cheaper in value too(amount $$ worth). The BMW has value for the long haul, but, expensive upkeep. I don't think Pontiac can just put a car out there and think people will look at this car and then look at a BMW, Lexus. I think they are in a different class than GM. For GM to be put up higher in class, they are going to need years of repairing the reputation of so so cars. So a few might look at it, some already have. Only because they see it being fun and appealing, much cheaper, but with a little sacrifice in refinement and value.

    Someone would be crazy to buy a "new" G8 now, when the used market is so low.
  • People must have driven the G8 in the snow at this point.
    Please tell us how if you survived.
    ;)
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 12,286
    A G8-or 3er-with good all seasons or winter rubber will get around just fine.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • Have any of you bimmer fans with their feathers ruffled actually driven a G8? It might surprise you. I havent as my lease doesnt run out for a year but the local Budget rent a car has one and Im going to rent it for a week to see. If it comes close to the 5 Im getting it as I dont care about badges even though the badges have proved to be what I prefer in the past. Ive had porsches,a ferrari, several benzes, a 3, a 6, and 2 corvettes. So I dont care what emblem it is if it goes good. The steering has got to be great and makes up for a lot with the engine.
  • steveinvtsteveinvt Posts: 17
    I have a 2007 328xi coupe with 20k miles. In general, I absolutely love the car. The 3-series is simply the best practical sports car/coupe that you can buy under $50k. It is a fantastic driving experience - the care just does not put a foot wrong. That said, the 3-series is not without its downsides. I personally hate the run-flat tires and, let's face it, you do pay a big premium for the badge.

    The lease on my BMW is up in less than a year, so I am starting to think about what to do next. Having read the reviews of the G8 in the mags, I decided to test drive one yesterday (a GT). I was seriously impressed. I have never driven a non-German car that handled so well. Very balanced and poised. Even with 19 inchers the ride was very compliant. The steering is nicely weighted and feedback is very good. The brakes were also very good - easy to modulate - though stopping distances seemed a tad longer than my 3 series. The v8 power is great with a fantastic, but muted, exhaust note. The interior is kinda black, but the car is nicely equipped and seems well screwed together. All in all, the car compares favorably with the 3-series.

    Now, here is the kicker. Even a fully loaded GT will only run about $30k or so with the GXP coming in well under $40k. To replace my 3-series will run about $44k. There is a lot I could do with an additional 14k plus interest in my pocket, so the g8 (along with the Camaro) will definitely by on my list.
  • My G8 GT is a really nice driver and very powerful. It's very BMW feeling in ride, handling, and power. I don't think you'll be disappointed if you get one. Also, you can do much better than $30K right now. The incentives are excellent. I have seen on the various G8 boards folks paying $25K to $27K for loaded GTs at this juncture.
  • pafromflpafromfl Posts: 47
    I traded a 2005 330i sport premium with 18k miles for a 2009 G8 GT sport premium and have no regrets. The BMW was more refined, handled slightly better, gave better gas mileage, and had more luxury features, but the G8 GT is just way more fun. A Rotofab cold air intake and Magnaflow street cat-back exhaust system restored the muscle car sound.
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Posts: 1,724
    Incentives will help, but even at those prices, they do not meet the real world values. Which are much lower in resale. Even with few 1,000 miles. You will already be so upside down on your loan versus real world value, it will take you years to break even.
    I would not buy new at this time. You will take a huge hit.

    I have seen G8's piling up at my dealer, the also have them sitting in the overflow lots, so perhaps a deal could be had in your area. Of course, their new. Check the used lots first. Just being realistic.:)
  • Let's face it, very few new vehicle purchases are sound from a financial point of view. I would agree that buying a used G8 GT for say $19K to $22K (depending on mileage, condition, etc.) may make more financial sense for some folks than spending $25K to $27K on a discounted new one. But even at this price, it's a performance bargain. Heck, a V-6 Malibu or Accord will cost you this!

    In my case, I chose to buy a new G8 GT because I was able to get it at the cost of a used one, using $3.5K in GM credit card monies I had accumulated and taking advantage of the red tag discounts when I purchased mine at the end of December. In the end, my final cost was $19.5K, plus tax. As you can imagine, I would have been hard-pressed to find an extremely low-mileage used one at that price. So in my case, it was worth it to buy new.

    With that said, could I trade-in my car now and get at least what I paid from a dealer?--maybe, maybe not. I would probably be able to get more money from a private sale, pending I could find the right buyer. I purchased this car, however, with the intent of keeping it for some time and only driving it in "good weather" as a pleasure car. So, buying new was important to me and resale value was not as much of an issue at this juncture. If I keep it in great shape, maybe I will luck-out and get a decent price for it some day like some of the low-mile '04-'06 GTO's are commanding today should I decide to sell.

    I would advise anyone looking at used G8 GT's to be careful to know what they are buying. Many of the used ones on the market now are former rental cars. Most of these vehicles have 8K to 15K miles on them and no telling if they have been abused or beat-up. Many folks, however, have been very happy with their rental car purchase, with no problems. If you are okay with a former rental car, that's great, but just know what you are getting to make sure everything is fine with the car. It could be a great value!

    Lastly, there is a glut of unsold new cars from other auto manufacturers as well. As for the G8, GM had its best month yet on the sale of G8's this past February with 2,705 units being sold. This was a 50% increase from the previous month! Also, this figure was on the heels of competing BMW 5-Series sold last month. Here is a link to the February GM sales figures:

    http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/84/84530/sales_production/Deliver- - - ies_February_2009.pdf

    Just my 2 cents.
  • Circlew, sorry you dont have access to good physician care. Maybe when your company gave you the options in your yearly insurance choice and you clicked the cheapest one and you ended up in a clinic with a 2 hour wait I can see why you are so bitter. You get what you pay for in healthcare as well as anything else. We have the best healthcare in the world. Maybe its expensive but when you can go in and get a procedure done with robots or better still one done with no cutting with lasers or ultrasound and you walk out and go back to work with no bed stay its worth every penny. Healthcare is a privilege deserved by people who actually pay for it, not a right. Look at the constitution. If you want healthcare diluted by losers and illegal aliens then you get what you get and you dont pitch a fit!
    I think the G8 looks rockin from the front, very aggressive. The back of it is sort of lame. I heard the steering is a little light on center. Anybody experience that?
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    You seem to be responding to a conversation that happened around two years old ago. Let's go back to leaving that be and stick to the cars in the subject line. There are conversations over on the Automotive News board where you can pursue discussion of benefits for automobile workers and other things of that nature.

    Thanks.
  • Yeah, I'm shopping new cars at the moment too and drove a 335d and 335i auto (didn't like the turbo lag in the diesel and didn't like the trans in the 335i either). Then I drove a 335i stick and liked it much better. Also drove a G8 GT and was quite impressed with the driveline and chassis. Nice steering feedback and great auto trans-- way better than the Bimmers' auto. And the engine feels and sounds great. Only problem with it is the exterior looks like a Japanese video game, with all the fake scoops and such. Interior is well-put together but not very pretty. Then I drove an '06 Z06. Holy crap that thing goes! And it's loud--but a good loud from the 427 V8. But the seats suck in that car and the steering is numb-- at least in that '06. Haven't driven a post-'08 Vette yet where they allegedly improved the steering.

    So, now what? I'd love a 3-series with the G8 engine and trans. Then you'd have something.

    Heinrich Gerhardt
  • bruceomegabruceomega Posts: 250
    Did you have the 335i auto in Sport mode, or regular Drive mode, when you drove it?

    I have a 535Xi with auto, and I find the Sport mode much more responsive than Drive, but Drive mode smoother in rush hour traffic.

    Thanks
    Bruce
  • Yes, tried it both ways. It wants to hold upper gears for as long as possible, it seems, probably to maximize gas mileage. It was annoying... you see a hole in traffic, punch it... and nothing for far too long until the computer decides to actually complete the downshift. It's like it can't decide whether to shift one or two gears at once and hesitates until it makes up its mind. Paddle shifting manually worked OK, but that's not how you drive in the city.

    The trans in the G8 was immediate in its downshifts. Worked exactly as a good auto should. I also drove a new CTS with the same trans as the G8, but in that application it was more like the Bimmer's auto. Therefore, the software calibration in the G8 is what makes it good.

    Heinrich
  • steveinvtsteveinvt Posts: 17
    Thanks to all for the advice re pricing and new vs used.

    My 3-series doesn't come off lease for another 9 months, so I've got some time. Leasing the BMW used to make sense b/c the great residuals and included service made it a cheap proposition for a few years. Right now, those residuals are falling fast and BMW is pushing customers to buy rather than lease. I am hesitant to buy a BMW because service costs out of warranty can be insane.

    If I get a G8 or Camaro, I will almost certainly buy new. For an American car, the resale values are dismal (as noted by several of you), so the purchase only makes sense if I decide I want to hold on to it until it dies. With a US car, I am not so worried about service costs out of warranty.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 12,286
    I am hesitant to buy a BMW because service costs out of warranty can be insane.

    The two main groups that perpetuate the "BMWs cost a bazillion dollars to fix" myth are:

    1. Shady BMW dealers who are trying to scare customers into a new or CPO car.
    2. Envious fools with a "sour grapes" mentality.

    Speaking of fools, on one of the Mazdaspeed boards(where opposable thumbs are a rarity) some doofus was telling me that he had a friend with a 2008 3er and how the oil service cost $175. I asked why the car wasn't covered by BMW's free maintenance; he said that it was- but the dealer put the price of the service on the invoice to show what it would cost out of warranty. Hmmmm, my dealer never does that, but then they charge less than 60 percent of that price to do the same service.
    In addition, where you live also affects servicing costs. My local dealer(Swope BMW, Louisville) performed an Inspection II(AKA the 60,000 mile service) and a brake fluid flush on my wife's X3 for just $374. In contrast, Santa Monica BMW charges $1105 for the same work. I know that the cost of living in California is higher than that of Kentucky, but 295% higher? There are also many good independent BMW shops that offer great service for a reasonable price. And if you are a member of the BMW Car Club you'll find that most dealers and indie shops offer Club discounts of up to 25% on parts and or labor.
    If it makes you feel any better, my first truly fast BMW(top speed of over 140) was a 1988 M6 that had just gone out of warranty. The original owner dropped it like a hot potato in 1992 fearing exorbitant running costs- and I gladly picked it up. The only thing that actually was pricey was the engine- a modified version of one of BMW's successful competition engines. The short block alone cost $15K back then. Well, I autocrossed it, tracked it, won countless Stoplight Grand Prix, and in general had a ball with the sled. There were no budget-busting disasters. I only sold it because my kid's car seat wouldn't fit in the rear bucket seat. I still miss it... Having said all that, the newer 7ers and the V8/V10 M cars CAN be pricey to maintain- but the E90/E92 3ers simply aren't that expensive to run.
    Note that I'm not saying that the G8 or Camaro would be a bad choice. I just wanted to point out that the running costs for a 3er aren't nearly as bad as some seem to think.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    I drove a g8 gt recently. General impressions:

    * The sport seats are very nice.
    * Wish the sides didn't slope in so much. My head is practically resting on the roof rail.
    * The engine, at low RPM, is very very quiet.
    * The auto trans started out in a high gear, and i felt like i was lugging the thing. Press gas more, still lugging. Then press a little more and it drops 2 gears and i'm going like a bat out of hell. Would have liked a manual better.
    * car is pretty composed even over rough roads, but felt somewhat ponderous.

    Seems like a good car for the price, but not sure if it's going to come out ahead of a 335i for me. Maybe the GXP would be better ( manual tranny, stiffer suspension ).
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 3,029
    “I also drove a new CTS with the same trans as the G8, but in that application it was more like the Bimmer's auto. Therefore, the software calibration in the G8 is what makes it good.”

    Actually, the trans. in the CTS is a 6L50, in the G8 GT, it is a 6L80. They are physically different as well as the software \ calibrations being a lot different.

    I test drove a fully loaded CTS DI [ and drove a more mundanely equipped CTS as a rental for almost a week ] and I would agree that the CTS is calibrated much more toward the ‘luxury sedan’ end of the scale – where the G8 GT is calibrated as a ‘sport sedan’. There were several aspects of the CTS trans. [mis-]behavior that I found very annoying, when driven in a [ um ] spirited manner. Though when driven like a more traditional luxury car, with my daughter in the co-pilot’s seat, in & around San Diego for a couple of days – it was acceptable.

    YMMV.
    - Ray
    Very happy 6L80 driver . . .
    2016 BMW 340i
This discussion has been closed.