(pretty funny, guys!) h1vc: I don't have any hard numbers on what constitutes "prolonged engagement" of RT4WD. I have yet to hear even one real-life story of this happening. The owners manual does say simply that if you completely lose traction, there's no point in just continuing to let your wheels spin freely. Actually, this makes sense in any vehicle, with RT4WD or not -- you'd only be making your "stuck" situation worse anyway. Just be aware that there is a thermally-triggered relief valve in the system just in case someone flips their CR-V over and decides to continue flooring the gas.
daveghh: Yeah, some folks have 17" wheels on their CR-V. A few have gone 18", and I've heard of at least one pioneer into 19" territory. In addition to looks, owners of the larger rims typically get sharper driving response, but usually at the cost of ride comfort.
I was quite surprised to see that my new CR-V was assembled in GB with 85% of the parts manufactured in Japan. Any comments on quality differences between the two assembly locations? How about the quality of the parts produced in England? I would have preferred a Japan assembly point but I may be concerned about nothing. I still sting from the "Stirling", an Acura assembled in England. They were not well screwed together, had poor reliability and were hard to resell. Tell me I am wrong to be concerned, and the procedures and processes are similar.
The Sterling was a Land Rover based on the Legend. Strictly speaking, it was not an Acura. In fact, Acuras are not sold anywhere else in the world. It's a North America only marque.
Most folks who are afraid of English cars are afraid of English designers and manufacturers. Honda is not one of them. Currently, the Swindon plant makes Civic and Accords for the UK. They were recently rated the #1 and #3 most reliable cars on their market. Other than an old prejudice based on the performance of other companies, I see no reason to doubt the UK facilities.
slugline or anyone else, do you think you lose ride comfort with 17 inch wheels. I know in theory you do, but can you notice it? I imagine venturing to 18 and 19 inch wheels must be a pretty rough ride. How 'bout 17 inch?
Quality in England should be fine, for example a lot of the Honda's are made in the US and they are still very reliable. In addition, I imagine plants in the US and England would be very similar so I wouldn't worry about England vehicles being less reliable.
I will be honest though, I would be more comfortable with a Japanese asembled CRV even though there probably is no reason to doubt the England vehicle.
Thanks slugline. Spinning your wheels won't always make it worse. Depending on what you're stuck in and what vehicle you have, you might make it out after spinning awhile.
Jsdreher - I had leather seats installed. The sensors appear to be working fine. You can test them by having the person in the passenger seat lean heavily toward the door or by having them lift their weight partially off the seat. A light will come on telling you that the side air bags are off. I think you will be OK with leather as long as you stick with a reputable installer that guarantees that there work is compatible with OEM equipment. Side air bags are not new and the larger experienced installation firms have tested their product to make sure everything is compatible. I was worried about the same thing but feel fine about everything now.
What I understood regarding the various elecrtical woes was GB manufacturing used inferior gauge wiring and then some union deal required one group wire the engine bay to the firewall, then another group took over from there back. How that effects Honda I don't know.
Once the 4WD is activated, how long does it stay activated? Until the engine is shut down? It wouldn't make sense for it to be on only while the front wheels are slipping.
Honda seems to think that it does make sense. Once the front tires regain their grip, RT4WD releases the rear wheels. This restores full power to the main drive wheels and saves fuel. It also prevents binding in the drivetrain, since the CR-V does not have a center differential.
I do have some pictures of the "V" on the beach but they are not digital and I do not have have a scanner. But for anyone thinking of taking their CR-V on the beach in Provincetown, their are some requirements. The most important, since the factory tires are undersized, is tire size. The minimum size tire allowed is 225's. I bought 225 70R 15's shortly after getting my CR-V, trading in the factory ones. One must also have a permit which can be obtained for one week for $40. You must also have a shovel, tow rope, jack(no problem there), a board to place the jack on in the soft sand (3/4 plywood will suffice and large enough for the jack to sit on solidly), and a tire guage that reads down to 5 psi. You obtain the oversand permits at the ranger station where you are also required to watch a 10 minute film. The recommended tire pressure is 11 psi so the tires will float on top of the soft sand. One important note, one cannot go hogwild on the beach. It is a National Seashore and a protected wildlife habitat. Any hot dogging and you will be escorted off the beach and lose your permit. And there are no shortage of people who won't drop a dime on you.
For simplicity you can image the hydraulic control on the CRV 4WD to operate based on fluid pressure alone (even though it is a bit more complex).
Consider what would happen to a watermill if there was no grindstone attached-- the water wheel would spin easier. That easier spin in the CRV's "RealTime" 4WD forces the fluid toward the opposing wheels 'drive shaft' which is fitted with its own "waterwheel".
It basically gets torque to the wheels that have traction (yes there are limits to how much torque split there can be, tech heads) WHENEVER there is a spinning wheel.
Why would'nt make sense to stop directing power once the front stop spinning?
There have been a number of posts regarding tire upgrades for an '02 CRV, and, for whatever reason, I can't seem to locate the ones of interest.
Would anyone have recommendations? We just picked up the EX and are taking it back to the dealer to have a 4WD balance done (pull-to-the-right problem). I'd like to upgrade the tires from the stock version.
Bevans go here to this link and play around with what you would like for a tire based on tire racks quick survey. Then you see a bunch of tires that meet your needs based on the survey and they are ranked by consumers. It's a great site!
Spent about 4 hours today putting a "Honda" trailer hitch and wiring harness on my 02 CRV. Excellent directions, relatively easy, certainly straight forward. I looked at aftermarket hitches, but they were not nearly as well thought out as Honda's. The hitch hangs down lower than I thought it would, but is no big deal. Sfs
When I wrote that it doesn't make sense to me that the RT4WD would be active only while the front wheels are slipping, it was based on my concept of a 4WD system. (Admittedly I have never even driven one.) This would be a system that could be manually engaged and disengaged by the driver, or which was always engaged (AWD). In either case, it could be active indefinitely, so that you could have maximum traction while traveling over a slippery road. This addresses the typical situation where I would want to use 4WD - driving to work in the snow. In the case of RT4WD, I had assumed that the wheel slipping signalled it to turn on because of bad road conditions, and that it would stay active for some time on the assumption that road conditions are not any better than when it turned on.
Since the CR-V RT4WD works only while the front wheels are slipping, it seems to me to be less of a 4W DRIVE system and more of a kind of ABS system for the drive train.
The local Toyota dealership was advertising an 02 CRV EX in their used listings, with the explanation "traded in for a sports car." None of the other listings needed an explanation, I guess.
-Chuck PS 4500 miles on my 02 CRV EX, and liking it lots
I am curious: if you are climbing a long slippery grade where you need traction from all four wheels, would the RT4WD continually engage and disengage while you are climbing?
I must take back my statement about never having driven a "4WD" vehicle. I have taken a test drive in a Forester. I didn't push it, and kept it on the pavement, so I couldn't tell any difference from 2WD.
Tom_k - Yes, it would. The same would apply if you were driving in the snow, down gravel roads, or "off-roading".
When a front wheels slips, a clutch pack in the rear differential locks up. This links the front axles with the rear and thus sends power to the rear wheels.
I've watched the system in action while a fellow CR-Ver tried to get unstuck from a snow bank. The rear wheels will engage in less than a 1/4 turn of the front wheels. I also have a video which shows the same thing. The test was done in lab conditions with all four wheels on rollers. By the time the front wheels spun from 12 o'clock to the 10 o'clock position, the rear wheels were moving. The video repeats the action in slo-mo.
Chooki - I've got a better one for you. There's a Subaru dealer near where I work. For about three weeks they had a "used" 2002 CR-V parked out front. I presumed that a customer traded it for an Outback or Forester. After three or four weeks it was still sitting there. Given the vehicle's popularity in this area, I wondered why it hadn't sold. Turns out, they were trying to sell it for MSRP (for a very crafty reason). The 2002 Foresters on their lot were all marked down.
A few weeks ago, the CR-V sold. The 2002 Foresters are still there. I stopped by and found out more about the deal, but it's too complicated to post.
Protege - Honda says the differential can vary the amount of power that is sent (depending on how much slippage there is). I'm not an engineer, but the only way I figure it does that is by allowing the clutch packs to slip. I suspect that would lead to the heat build-up that Slugline mentioned above.
I am having my ignition switch replaced today due to the recall. I have a command start and just got a call that I will have to pay $60.00 because the mechanic has to bypass the command start to replace the ignition switch. Has anyone come across this yet. I don't feel I should have to pay as it's not my fault their switch is faulty.
In addition, it is not just an on/off situation, like a switch. The clutch pack will lock up quickly and start to unlock when the pressure starts to equalize. If you are in a low traction situation, like climbing a long, snow covered hill, then the system may be in effect "locked" into 4wd since the front wheels may be spinning slightly faster than the rears for the entire climb.
It sold before the 2002 Foresters, but did it sell before the 2003 Foresters? Let's compare current models, shall we?
Besides, even those 2002s have center differentials, and send power to both axles all the time without binding or overheating.
Kurt: that's absurd. I'd fight it. Costco.com didn't want to reimburse me for a shipping charge for a product that was recalled, either. I fought it and won.
While Honda does, in fact, design in a relief valve to 'un-do' RealTime 4WD should the system register a higher than normal temperature, it is not fair to assume that such high temepratures are ever routinely encountered.
Even in very rugged conditions CRVs have proven most capable. True, the Suburus have many merits as well, but like any vehicle can be pushed beyond thier limits as well. Suburu is a World Champion of many rally series, while Honda pursues other forms of motorsports. Different heritage, different goals. Also, a simpler drivetrain makes for less maintence/potential repairs.
I belive the philosophy behind Honda's decision to include the over temperature valve, was "better to be a bit conservative" NOT a reaction to any reports of "burned up" RealTime 4WD...
Juice - The dealer didn't have '03 models until very recently (the same time that the CR-V sold). They still have several 2002 models, but I saw a 2003 in the showroom.
They were keeping the CR-V at MSRP so they could point to it and say, "That's the price that Honda is asking. See how much cheaper the Forester is". There was no real rush to sell the CR-V. Honda fans would walk onto the lot (thinking they could get a good deal on it) instead they would show them a Forester. Pretty crafty, IMHO.
The whole story is rather long, and I had a feeling it would start up the old Honda vs Subaru thing all over again. So I've been hesitant to tell it. In the end, the CR-V was sold, but it's still on the lot. The employee lot.
In the grand scheme of things it was one sale and doesn't really matter, but I know some might make a big deal of it.
My parents have decided on an auto EX CRV and are starting to shop. Since it is getting into late-July, I'm tempted to advise them to wait for the 2003's, either to get the 2002 cheaper (perhaps with year end factory incentives) or to get the 2003. Any advice?
frenchiee, You no longer have to do that. Honda has updated their wiring harness.( I think they are using one from an Odyssey, part # 08L92-SOX-100R1) It consists of one harness that takes 5 minutes to install....that's after you've removed all the plastic pieces that must be removed to do the hitch anyway. It comes with a straight 4 pin connector....hooked mine to my trailer....everything worked fine. sfs
Hey bevans10, in answer to your tire recommendation Q for an '02 'V, I added some Michelin LTX M/S tires in size 225/70-15 and I am very pleased with them so far (about 5K miles). I know of at least 2 other '02 owners with the exact same tires and I think they like them as well. If you go to this size, be prepared to go without a spare tire cover though. I've got another pic posted in the CR-V Owners' Photo Gallery if you'd like to see another pic
DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO PROGRAM A NEW REMOTE, I CAN,T SEEM TO FIND MINE, SO I WILL GET ONE FROM A DEALER, WHICH I WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR, BUT I DON,T WANT TO HAVE TO PAY ALSO FOR THEM TO PROGRAM MY NEW ONE, I HEAR IT IS SIMPLE TO DO, BUT WHO CAN SAY. AT LEAST I CAN USE MY WIFE,S, TILL I GET THIS SOLVED. THANKS FOR ANY HELP
rerenov8r: Yup, Honda didn't include the thermal valve in anticipation of overheating only due to routine use. The system will also overheat if the fluid level is too low or if the wrong fluid is used -- so don't let your kids drain your rear differential and refill it with Dep. :-)
bob346: Can you confirm the model year of your CR-V? If it is 1997-2001, I think I should be able to dig up instructions.
Bob you don't have to use caps here, there is no reason for yelling.
Anyways here are the instructions for the first generation CRV between 1997 and 2001. It is very easy to program the remote. Be patient though, it took me several tries before I got the remote to work.
If you have the 2002 you actually have to install a remote box behind the cargo pocket under the Radio. This install is also easy and the instructions can be found here.
thanks for your help slugline&daveghh, when i got the cr-v i got 2 remotes, we cant seem to find 1 of them, i asked at the honda dealer he said he could order me a new 1 & they would have to program it to match the 1 i have now, they charge a lot for this, i thought if i just got a new remote i could find out how to program the new 1. thanks again bob346. PS sorry about the caps
I think the dealer was smart, honestly. MSRP is pretty much fair market value for a CR-V, so he wasn't being dishonest. Plus, you have to admit it's gutsy to offer test drives in the competition.
This goes with their advertising strategy, which now compares the Scooby directly to the CR-V. The only other ad I saw, the infamous bunny ad, was cancelled.
That all added up to a record sales month (!), so they know what they're doing.
rerenov8r: while simpler may tend to be more reliable, that is not always the case. Honda's VTEC isn't close to simple, yet it's far more reliable than the simple pushrod engines GM uses, for instance. Subaru's VC system is actually extremely simple and very reliable, plus maintenance-free.
Tires look schweet, Greg. Honda should make that the standard size.
"I think the dealer was smart, honestly. MSRP is pretty much fair market value for a CR-V, so he wasn't being dishonest."
Well, I did like the strategy, and give them credit for that. But you can get a brand new CR-V in these parts for $500-1,000 off MSRP without much difficulty. This was a 2002, but it wasn't brand new. I think it was more of a bait and switch routine. Use the CR-V to attract Honda customers and then show them the Foresters.
Back to the RT4WD discussion... I've spent 3-4 hours driving on snow covered trails (forestry roads) without the unit over heating. It has happened to some, but I think you have to really abuse it.
Has anyone noticed that the rear seats of the 2002 CR-V have a really large gap, about an inch wide? This bothers me that with the gap so large, the upper portion of the seatback vibrates and creates a rattling noise when I drive.
This just drives me crazy with all the noises that goes on in my car... The intermittent rattle of the moonroof Rattle of the seatback Road Noise, OEM Tires
Does anyone know of a fix for this? I have a long drive to work and back and the noises are constantly present in the hour long drives. (So. Cal);)
I have a 2000 CR-V EX 5 speed. I have had it about 18 months. It has a little more than 91,000 miles on it. It is about 90% highway miles. Therefore, I don't use the clutch or the brake that much. My question is: Should I get the timing belt changed, or do you think I can go another 10-20,000 miles?
so as i was checking out all of the wonderful storage with the crv before buying, i thought the square compartment underneath the cd/radio deck was perfect for cd storage. only problem is, this compartment is about 3/16" too narrow for cd cases! now why would honda do that?
also, does anyone know how to get the cd player to remain in cd track mode vs. switching to the clock? i have the LX and single cd player.
nearly 2K miles. all in all, very pleased. still doing extremely well on gas. last tank fill calcd out to 29.5 miles per gallon (this tank was about 90% highway miles, although included a run up to breckenridge on I-70).
Do you have an automatic? The lowest drawer on the center holds about 6 CD cases nicely. Yeah, I don't know why the square compartment doesn't work with them.. Or, you can put the cases on the door (and listen to the cases rattling while you drive).
SRS light popped on last night while out. Gotta head up to the dealer and check it out.
What noise? If you wanted a Buick then you got the wrong vehicle.All small SUVs are noisey. All cars have some noise,wind,tire,engine,etc. I have had my CRV 5 months and the only thing it needs is more power and better gas mileage which are directly opposed.For the next model I would add automatic climate control.
try folding the seat backs down and see if that helps. I haven't heard that sound myself, but having the seat backs touch the seat bottoms might help reduce their movement.
Correct me if I'm wrong Varmint, but doesn't the overseas navi go in the same spot as the radio, while the compartment below the vents is used for other electronic wizardry? Actually, despite the fact that it can't hold CD cases, I find that little cubby hole to be very useful for holding lots of other junk
Hello, I'm buying a 2002 CRV, and am now faced with several add-on choices from my dealer : rustproofing, oxytec paint treatment, and fabric treatment. I've pretty much made up my mind that I want the rust proofing, and that I'll buy a can of scotchguard at the hardware store for the fabric treatment. But what about the paint treatment? Does anyone have information if it's worth the $250 CDN to avoid waxing for a few years?
Comments
daveghh: Yeah, some folks have 17" wheels on their CR-V. A few have gone 18", and I've heard of at least one pioneer into 19" territory. In addition to looks, owners of the larger rims typically get sharper driving response, but usually at the cost of ride comfort.
Most folks who are afraid of English cars are afraid of English designers and manufacturers. Honda is not one of them. Currently, the Swindon plant makes Civic and Accords for the UK. They were recently rated the #1 and #3 most reliable cars on their market. Other than an old prejudice based on the performance of other companies, I see no reason to doubt the UK facilities.
Quality in England should be fine, for example a lot of the Honda's are made in the US and they are still very reliable. In addition, I imagine plants in the US and England would be very similar so I wouldn't worry about England vehicles being less reliable.
I will be honest though, I would be more comfortable with a Japanese asembled CRV even though there probably is no reason to doubt the England vehicle.
Consider what would happen to a watermill if there was no grindstone attached-- the water wheel would spin easier. That easier spin in the CRV's "RealTime" 4WD forces the fluid toward the opposing wheels 'drive shaft' which is fitted with its own "waterwheel".
It basically gets torque to the wheels that have traction (yes there are limits to how much torque split there can be, tech heads) WHENEVER there is a spinning wheel.
Why would'nt make sense to stop directing power once the front stop spinning?
Link to simple diagram: http://www.kahmotorco.com/crv_drivetrain.htm
There is no indicator.
Would anyone have recommendations? We just picked up the EX and are taking it back to the dealer to have a 4WD balance done (pull-to-the-right problem). I'd like to upgrade the tires from the stock version.
Thanks in advance!
Click on tire decision guide!
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/SelectTireSize.jsp?autoMake=Honda&autoModel=CRV&autoYear=2002
Sfs
varmint "CR-V Owners: Events" Jul 18, 2002 11:10pm
Since the CR-V RT4WD works only while the front wheels are slipping, it seems to me to be less of a 4W DRIVE system and more of a kind of ABS system for the drive train.
an 02 CRV EX in their used listings, with
the explanation "traded in for a sports car."
None of the other listings needed an explanation, I guess.
-Chuck
PS 4500 miles on my 02 CRV EX, and liking it lots
I must take back my statement about never having driven a "4WD" vehicle. I have taken a test drive in a Forester. I didn't push it, and kept it on the pavement, so I couldn't tell any difference from 2WD.
When a front wheels slips, a clutch pack in the rear differential locks up. This links the front axles with the rear and thus sends power to the rear wheels.
I've watched the system in action while a fellow CR-Ver tried to get unstuck from a snow bank. The rear wheels will engage in less than a 1/4 turn of the front wheels. I also have a video which shows the same thing. The test was done in lab conditions with all four wheels on rollers. By the time the front wheels spun from 12 o'clock to the 10 o'clock position, the rear wheels were moving. The video repeats the action in slo-mo.
When the RT4WD does kick in, is it a 50/50 front/rear split or not?
A few weeks ago, the CR-V sold. The 2002 Foresters are still there. I stopped by and found out more about the deal, but it's too complicated to post.
Besides, even those 2002s have center differentials, and send power to both axles all the time without binding or overheating.
Kurt: that's absurd. I'd fight it. Costco.com didn't want to reimburse me for a shipping charge for a product that was recalled, either. I fought it and won.
-juice
Even in very rugged conditions CRVs have proven most capable. True, the Suburus have many merits as well, but like any vehicle can be pushed beyond thier limits as well. Suburu is a World Champion of many rally series, while Honda pursues other forms of motorsports. Different heritage, different goals. Also, a simpler drivetrain makes for less maintence/potential repairs.
I belive the philosophy behind Honda's decision to include the over temperature valve, was "better to be a bit conservative" NOT a reaction to any reports of "burned up" RealTime 4WD...
They were keeping the CR-V at MSRP so they could point to it and say, "That's the price that Honda is asking. See how much cheaper the Forester is". There was no real rush to sell the CR-V. Honda fans would walk onto the lot (thinking they could get a good deal on it) instead they would show them a Forester. Pretty crafty, IMHO.
The whole story is rather long, and I had a feeling it would start up the old Honda vs Subaru thing all over again. So I've been hesitant to tell it. In the end, the CR-V was sold, but it's still on the lot. The employee lot.
In the grand scheme of things it was one sale and doesn't really matter, but I know some might make a big deal of it.
- Mark
You no longer have to do that. Honda has updated their wiring harness.( I think they are using one from an Odyssey, part # 08L92-SOX-100R1) It consists of one harness that takes 5 minutes to install....that's after you've removed all the plastic pieces that must be removed to do the hitch anyway. It comes with a straight 4 pin connector....hooked mine to my trailer....everything worked fine.
sfs
bob346: Can you confirm the model year of your CR-V? If it is 1997-2001, I think I should be able to dig up instructions.
Anyways here are the instructions for the first generation CRV between 1997 and 2001. It is very easy to program the remote. Be patient though, it took me several tries before I got the remote to work.
1997-2001 CRV
http://www.handa-accessories.com/crv/keyless.gif
If you have the 2002 you actually have to install a remote box behind the cargo pocket under the Radio. This install is also easy and the instructions can be found here.
2002 CRV
http://www.handa-accessories.com/crv/02CRVKEYLESS.pdf
This goes with their advertising strategy, which now compares the Scooby directly to the CR-V. The only other ad I saw, the infamous bunny ad, was cancelled.
That all added up to a record sales month (!), so they know what they're doing.
rerenov8r: while simpler may tend to be more reliable, that is not always the case. Honda's VTEC isn't close to simple, yet it's far more reliable than the simple pushrod engines GM uses, for instance. Subaru's VC system is actually extremely simple and very reliable, plus maintenance-free.
Tires look schweet, Greg. Honda should make that the standard size.
-juice
Well, I did like the strategy, and give them credit for that. But you can get a brand new CR-V in these parts for $500-1,000 off MSRP without much difficulty. This was a 2002, but it wasn't brand new. I think it was more of a bait and switch routine. Use the CR-V to attract Honda customers and then show them the Foresters.
Back to the RT4WD discussion... I've spent 3-4 hours driving on snow covered trails (forestry roads) without the unit over heating. It has happened to some, but I think you have to really abuse it.
This just drives me crazy with all the noises that goes on in my car...
The intermittent rattle of the moonroof
Rattle of the seatback
Road Noise, OEM Tires
Does anyone know of a fix for this? I have a long drive to work and back and the noises are constantly present in the hour long drives. (So. Cal);)
Other than these, love the car!
also, does anyone know how to get the cd player to remain in cd track mode vs. switching to the clock? i have the LX and single cd player.
nearly 2K miles. all in all, very pleased. still doing extremely well on gas. last tank fill calcd out to 29.5 miles per gallon (this tank was about 90% highway miles, although included a run up to breckenridge on I-70).
SRS light popped on last night while out. Gotta head up to the dealer and check it out.
-Chuck
All cars have some noise,wind,tire,engine,etc.
I have had my CRV 5 months and the only thing
it needs is more power and better gas mileage
which are directly opposed.For the next model
I would add automatic climate control.
It appears that the JDM model has some other equipment in the spot where the "hole" is. Maybe it can be expanded(?).