Buying a Used Sienna

13

Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm all for AWD, in fact we've owned 3 Subarus.

    The catch here is that the AWD models mandate run-flats. The driveshaft goes right in the path of where the spare tire is on other models.

    And I *hate* run-flats. Expensive, stiff ride, short tread life, etc.

    We got a FWD Sienna, but we also have an AWD Subaru in our fleet for those snowy days. It's much better suited anyway.
  • pricewpricew Member Posts: 18
  • pricewpricew Member Posts: 18
    2009 XLE, 33,000 miles, DVD entertainment, leather. What is a good price. Edmunds states 19348 for trade in, 21676 for private party and 23465 for dealer. What would be a good target price. Anything to watch out for.
  • kennethjiangkennethjiang Member Posts: 6
    You were very helpful to bring up the point of run-flat tires. It doesn't seem make a lot of economical sense to pay the price in daily uses just for a couple of days in the whole year.
  • subbewannabesubbewannabe Member Posts: 2
    Kenneth,
    I live on top a mountain in western North Carolina with a very steep asphalt private road with multiple hairpin switchbacks. We have a 2005 Sienna AWD and a 2004 Subaru Forester XT. This year we have had so much snow that I broke down and bought z-pattern tire chains...for the Subaru! The AWD Sienna has 119K miles on it, is an ideal road-trip vehicle and I prefer it over the Subaru when I have to drive more than an hour for work. The seats are comfortable and supportive and the higher driver's position and greenhouse visibility are a huge advantage on the highway. I have made it up and down the mountain on snow, ice, slush and every combination with no problem...but there's a secret. I ditched the run-flat tires years ago ( after two sets, neither of whilch last 25K miles), bought a matching 5th wheel on ebay and now have 1 run-flat as a full-size spare that fits snugly in the well behind the third-row seat. The other 4 tires are Pirelli P 4's that have over 50K on them and still get very good rain/snow traction.
    Whether you go with AWD or FWD, a set of chains is a good idea if you are intentionally going into mountainous big snow country with your family aboard. Make sure you get Z or <> pattern to work with your ABS and VSC and a set for each pair of drive wheels = 2 sets for AWD. Good luck.
  • pdsportspdsports Member Posts: 4
    Only 104K miles for $6600. Never owned a Toyota or a minivan (have a Subaru Outback as primary car so this would be for wife and son).

    sounds like a good deal but what things should I be concerned about with it just having hit the 100K mark? Timing belt? Plugs? Transmission?
  • jprocjproc Member Posts: 135
    timing belt and the spark plugs should have been changed at 90k.Transmission fluid I change it in my XLE every 50k.If he hasn't done any of that I'd pass
  • pdsportspdsports Member Posts: 4
    Thanks
  • asafonovasafonov MinneapolisMember Posts: 401
    Greetings.

    Looking to buy either a used 2010 LE or a new 2011 LE with minimal options in the next month. The asking prices for the used ones (with 20-35k miles) seem to start at about 21-22k, plus fees and taxes. Location: Minneapolis/St Paul.

    The new 2011 model is quite a bit more. I am leaning towards the used previous year's model.

    Should I spring for the new one? Paying cash in either case. Thank you for your advice.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If you want an 8 seat model, I'd recommend the 2010, which had a MUCH wider center seat in the 2nd row.

    The new one is merely a bridge.

    OTOH, the new model has 3 zone climate control and a backup cam even on the volume models. So if you're a gadget person, those features may win you over.

    I prefer the exterior styling of the new one, but the interior of my 2007 is a bit nicer with softer materials in some places.

    Drive 'em both and go with your gut.
  • chellesings1chellesings1 Member Posts: 1
    I just bought the 2011 LE, and yes, that 8th seat is tee-ninchy!!! I have a car seat in the left outboard seat, and for me to sit in that 8th seat is a squeeze!! However, I really like it! I do find something odd, though. My first Sienna from years ago was an LE and had power vent windows. Now THIS one, with its fancy back-up camera and dual power sliders, doesn't. What is up with THAT?? :confuse: Anyhoo......still glad I've got her!
  • asafonovasafonov MinneapolisMember Posts: 401
    atexeira, thank you for your insightful comment. While the 8-th seat is nice-to-have, rather than must-have, if getting an 8-seater, might as well get a vehicle with a realistically-sized 8th seat.

    As for the gadgets - I am emphatically NOT a gadget person - especially in a car; fewer things to break. I drove a rental Flex for a few weeks that had a backup camera and never got used to it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The advantage is there is a place to store it. Very convenient. If you seldom use it, that may be an advantage.
  • jrsharp88jrsharp88 Member Posts: 2
    Just wondering when we can expect to see an influx of used 2011 Siennas or when the 2012's might be hitting dealerships. I'm more interested in finding a used 2011 XLE, but if I gotta buy new, I may as well get a 2012. Thanks for any info you might have.
  • loucapriloucapri Member Posts: 214
    feel the same. if going with new, might as well get the new, new :)
    when 2011 came out early 2010, it still called 2011 and you kind of get at least 7 months ahead. If you buy a 2011 NOW, probably by August or Sept, it will be "OLD" since 2012 might be there by then.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    There are some rental return 2011's starting to show-up now. Most are LE models with 10k-15k miles. I don't think you'll see enough of a discount on the rare used XLE to bother. Toyota/Honda it's almost always better to buy new until you're shopping for something more than 3 years old.
  • worklessworkless Member Posts: 1
    Hello,

    I'm looking at two '08 LE 8-passenger after my '03 got totaled in a rear end accident.

    Both have all the basics, plus power sliding passenger side door. Both are in clean condition.

    1st is a Toyota certified w/ 58,000 miles and Carfax shows it at -$280.

    2nd is on independent lot and has 74,800 miles and Carfax shows -$440.

    Both are asking $18,995 to start.

    The KBB, Edmunds, and NADA numbers are all over the map. (1st is $19,925, $18,117, & $19,175. 2nd is $18,500, $16,171, & $18,375)

    Any suggestions at a good starting offer for either?

    Any ideas as to how much Toyota Certified should add to the price? Is it worth it?

    Thanks,
    Sail
  • fibber2fibber2 Mid Hudson Valley, NYMember Posts: 3,786
    edited March 2011
    I'm no expert on how to price used cars, but this is my recent experience looking in the NY metropolitan area. Each market is different, to adjust accordingly.

    Last weekend I purchased a 2008 Sienna LE, excellent outward appearance (drives like new) with 20,058 miles on the clock & still under original factory warranty for another few weeks, from a dealer on Long Island (about 90+ miles from home). Original window sticker asking price was $20,980. Selling price was $18,990. Clean CarFax report, Toyota Certified, and I got the service dept to pull the complete history of all warranty work to date. Two tires were slightly under the Toyota Certified requirements of uniform 5/32, and I got them to put on two new tires as well.

    If you go to the ToyotaCertified.com site, you can view the complete terms of the extended warranty (NOTE: The base warranty got better on March 1 - it was 3 months, and is now 12 months plus 7yr/100k powertrain). You can also do a search query up to 100 miles for all cars available - very handy for comparison shopping. Each listing has multiple photos. You can even get an e-brochure if you don't have access to one so that you can compare contents of packages & features. It's great to be able to do your initial screening on the web.

    I can tell you that the LE seems to be a pretty good bargain having depreciated a bit faster than the XLE (at least around here). Given that the base XLE went for around $4k more new, we were very surprised to find that they resold for a solid $5 - 6k more. That makes them a great investment, but a bit harder to buy used if on a budget.

    So what does "Certified" get you? If you buy a van that is over 3yrs/36k miles (outside of the original warr) from a used car dealer, you cannot buy a Toyota extended warranty for it. All you have is the used dealer 1 month or 3 month protection. If you buy a CPO car from Toyota, it already comes with excellent coverage, plus you can buy more - up to 8 years / 125k miles bumper to bumper no matter what the time or mileage is at the time of purchase. BUT - you have to buy it at closing! If you say no at the signing, there's no way to add it later. I was even told that by one of the big warranty sellers here on the web. Go armed with pricing data and push back. Unfortunately you really don't have much leverage if you fall into this crack, but put up a fight anyhow. They'd rather sell it cheaper than not at all!

    If the van is still under original warranty as mine is, you can buy the Toyota plans from anywhere. True, there is a very slightly different in the roadside asst T&C buying it at 'closing' vs shopping later on the web, but not enough of a delta to warrant overpaying the selling dealer. Yes, it's complicated!!!

    So in your case - next to no protection on the used lot van, up to 5 years more coverage on the Toyota dealer car for 10-15% more $$$. Plus lower mileage to begin with. To me, it seems an easy choice. A power door repair can be a grand!

    Do you need 8 passenger? My two kids objected to the lack of arm rests on the 8 seaters, so we screened for 7 seats only.

    Hope all of this helps!
  • my_last_toyotamy_last_toyota Member Posts: 5
    We've had nothing but problems with our 2006 Sienna XLE. Run-flat tires are a disaster, electrical issues as well. Navigation chews-up map DVDs (three in five years) and the whole navigation system just went out completely (Toyota wants $3500 to replace). Unless you really really need AWD, I'd go with the Honda.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited April 2011
    Ody has the same issues with run-flat tires.

    Better advice - avoid the run-flats completely, both Honda and Toyota.
  • loucapriloucapri Member Posts: 214
    Carfax's +/- market is a joke. You will see some one owner vehicle has -$100.00 or 4 owners vehicle has +$200. There +/- market is all over the map. The worst I have seen was one "accident" "airbag deployed" car has a +.

    Go figure.

    My rule for a used car is like this: take 50% off from orginial price (NEW) for every 5 years. If a new 2011 Sienna LE sell for $30K right now, a 2006 LE should be around $15000 (of course you do make adjustment on overall condition, miles and who is selling the car).

    KBB works for the seller, not the buyer. Don't buy 1 or 2 years old USED car unless you get good deal. If you look around, you will notice a 2009, 2010 Sienna still ask for high number, sometime even close to 2011's pricing.

    Don't waste time buying from small auto broker (unless you have a small budget), they get cars mainly from auction (meaning no body wants to keep those cars at the beginning).

    I have good experience picking up used car from Lexus, Toyota and Nissan dealership. 1) most of the cars they got are from trade, 2) if they sell it themself, it means the cars are worth keeping, otherwise, they just send it to auction.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Did you go looking for a used car and find that prices were so high that it made more sense to buy a new car instead? Or found that your trade-in was worth a lot more than you expected?

    If so, a reporter wants to interview you. Please email [email protected] no later than 3pm Eastern on Thursday, May 5, 2011 and include your daytime contact information.
  • dillydilldillydill Member Posts: 111
    I posted in the RWTIV about a used 2007 LE that I am going to look at this weekend, hopefully.
    It seems that used prices of 2007-8's are in the high teens to low 20's.

    After looking at Zag it appears I can get a new 2011 LE for about 27K plus TTL.

    Does anyone have any thoughts on comparison between the two?
    After searching it seems that more people are preferring their older models over the new one.

    I think I am now leaning towards a new one.
    Interested to hear what others are thinking.

    Here is the 2007 private sale asking 15K

    Mileage: 50000
    Color: Gray/ Gray cloth
    The online listing says Automatic Transmission, ABS, Alloy Wheels, Power seat, Cruise Control, Parking/Backup Sensor
    Power Sliding Doors, DVD System with remote and two wireless headsets.
    6 CD MP3/CD AM/FM Stereo System, Premium JBL 12 Speaker system. Privacy Glass, Roof Rack, 7 Passenger seating.

    New Brakes,New Tires, Fully Maintained and Serviced. Moving Must sell.

    I contacted private seller and he gave me a link to carfax and said he is second owner.

    http://www.carfax.com/cfm/FSBO.cfm?report=5820ABA22973721618D5193565CD3CDC

    Thanks
  • loucapriloucapri Member Posts: 214
    You have to ask yourself 1st how much you want to spend, 2nd, how long you plan to keep the car.

    We had 04 LE AWD and ready to get a 2011 XLE AWD, within our budget and plan to keep for many years but I end up cancelled my order. Reason 1), really don't feel the interior quality on the 2011, 2) didn't have the same excitiment compared to buying our 04 back then (kind of telling me something is not right) 3) see the 04-2011 has better value.

    So we went back and look for a 2006 Limited Sienna, cost less, better equip (over the 2011 XLE we were looking at). well, at the end, we ended up buying a 2007 Highlander AWD :)
    WHY? We still like to move to the new sienna but not on the 2011, maybe in a year or 2 when they make some improvement (hopefully) and we know the HL will hold the resale better since we only plan to keep it for a year or 2.

    In your case, if LE is what you are looking for, and money is not a factor, go with 2011, newer and has warranty. Your listing if is LE, not sure you can get factory DVD and JBL 12 speakers? I will see it in person to confirm :)
  • dillydilldillydill Member Posts: 111
    Thanks for the post Lou. Honestly, I don't want to spend any money ;). We usual keep our cars until they are well over 100K miles.

    We have had our current 99 Sienna XLE for almost 8 years. We bought it used from a family member with about 65K miles and now it has 165K. Little things like the power door not closing properly for the last 5 years has been wearing on the Mrs. Every door handle has had to be replaced including the rear hatch. Currently, the passenger side door handle needs to be fixed. The check engine light says we need a need o2 sensor. A lot of the radio buttons have fallen off, but I got some Mighty Mendit and glued them back on finally.

    It still runs well. . . but my wife would like to have an mp3 input and Middle windows that go down. Oh, and doors that work. :)

    I started looking at 07 and 08 LE's because they should fit the bill. My wife would miss the sunroof of our current van but she will be thrilled with something new to her.

    A brand new 2011 seems to be only 10K more than these 3- 4 year old used ones. It would be a little bit of a stretch to get the new one, but we would have a warranty and maintenance for 2 years covered.

    I have yet to see the 2011 interior in person.
  • loucapriloucapri Member Posts: 214
    If you haven't seen the 2011 interior yet and want to go that route, my suggestion is NOT to check out too many 2004-2010 Sienna. Jumping from 04-10 to 2011+, you WILL disappointed with the interior quality. The 1 thing good about the 2011+ is the outside, new style. Sounds like you keep your van for long time, again, may as well go with 2011+ LE (it comes with mp3, 2 power doors)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    CR lowered the score for the new model, so you're not the only one to feel that way.

    I'd probably look at a CPO 2010 if I were shopping today.

    Funny thing is CR docked the Odyssey's score also. Both were downgraded.
  • fibber2fibber2 Mid Hudson Valley, NYMember Posts: 3,786
    We went shopping for a 2011 LE, and ended up with the CPO '08 LE. Realize that our last 9 car purchases have been new vehicles, so buying uses was a new experience for us.
  • dillydilldillydill Member Posts: 111
    Please share the details :) and the reasons behind it. Thanks.
  • fibber2fibber2 Mid Hudson Valley, NYMember Posts: 3,786
    Sorry, didn&#146;t see your note before now.

    My wife is the primary driver of the van, so her preferences carry a lot of weight. Our first preference was another Honda Odyssey, having had an excellent ownership experience with our &#145;02. We didn&#146;t even get out of the parking lot with the new style &#146;11. She hated everything about it, particularly the exterior styling and the impact of those windows on drivers visibility. Next up was a CPO 2010 Ody, but the price was high and she didn&#146;t like that the rear quarter windows are fixed. She frequently leaves them open to vent the van.

    So now off look at others. The Kia Sedona felt too truck-like. It&#146;s just not as refined. We drove an LE and XLE 2011 Sienna. They were both pretty nice, but there were issues with quality of materials, fit & finish, price, etc. She hated the way the middle seats move, and just couldn&#146;t master folding them. The tracks look like a real liability. We&#146;ve also been burned on &#145;first year&#146; models before, and so when we looked at the recalls and owner comments were a little bit worried about the potential for problems.

    Finally we tried a CPO van (I think it was an 8 passenger &#146;08). It had the most &#145;familiar&#146; feel to her, and hit all the right buttons (look, feel, function, etc.). It took a tri-state search and some driving to find the best deal (we wanted a 7 passenger), but ended up with a &#145;drives like new&#146; CPO &#146;08 LE with 20k miles for $19k. We added a Platinum warranty to that to be sure it was a good choice.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good choice...
  • dillydilldillydill Member Posts: 111
    Thanks for the informative post. Good stuff. I appreciate it.
  • mco1950mco1950 Member Posts: 1
    I am waiting for the new Toyota sienna 2012 and I want to know when is arriving
    And what is new if is any changes
  • lxowner2lxowner2 Member Posts: 51
    Toyota's website has a release on the 2012 Sienna. It says the price increase is negligible (except for the SE model which went up about 2K), and that there are no significant changes from the 2011 model. Which means no interior upgrade or MPG improvement as rumors have it. Do you think you will get 4K off the sticker on a 2012 when it comes out?
  • hp2009hp2009 Member Posts: 65
    if you are not in rush for sienna then wait for 2012....my friend who worked in sales told us that interior will be changed with more quality....dealer will make u buy 2011 ...they will never tell truth about 2012 model since they donot get any special rebate or hold back on new models...same as cust no special apr and 1st 3 months....most 2012 models goes for msrp price (every models )

    thanks
    hp
  • bravojunkiebravojunkie Member Posts: 5
    edited August 2011
    From Toyota's Aug 8, 2011 press release:

    All-new in 2011 model year, the Sienna van carries over virtually unchanged. Pricing for the Sienna will range from $24,520 for the front-wheel-drive Base grade to $40,570 for the all-wheel-drive Limited, reflecting an overall increase of $174 or 0.5 percent. Prices for the 2012 Sienna will go into effect beginning with the start of production on September 6.

    They have a table in the PDF that lists the new MSRPs and shows how much of a increase there is for each vehicle.
  • jrsharp88jrsharp88 Member Posts: 2
  • rangers6905rangers6905 Member Posts: 1
    i have the oppt to get a 2006 sienna xle limited which has 74000 miles on it. the inside is in very good condition-and the outside is also good.

    my question is what should I pay for it? my trade is a joke-I am still driving a 1993 Taurus Wagon with 125 k miles. overall my wagon runs well-the engine is good but I do not want to put any more $$ in repairs -the rust on the sides and underneath is getting bad. To get $1 k for it is good. with that said- Edmunds is a saying that a 2006 XLE Limited at 74,000 miles trade in value is from $14,300 to $16,800.00
    The dealer wants about $19 k. so what should I pay for this Van? lets say they gave the owner $16 k for this XLE -i would say thta to offer $18 K IS PLENTY. I get $1k for my wagon and buy this van for $17 k or is that too much-shoot for $16 k?

    Hope you can help me with my questions. Much apprecited!
  • fibber2fibber2 Mid Hudson Valley, NYMember Posts: 3,786
    Question #1 is do you really need an XLE Limited. It was an expensive van to begin with, so it drives a higher resale value. Could you live with an LE, or is that just too stripped for you? I ask because if you go back a few posts you'll see that I bought a Certified 2008 with 20k miles for slightly under $19k earlier in the season. A full year bumper to bumper, and lots of time left on that 7 yr / 100k powertrain warranty.

    The 2012's are about to roll out, and resale on used vans takes another step down. 2+ years older, relatively high miles, not much warranty (assumed). To me, that's a lot of money for more van than I have a need for.
  • wtn928wtn928 Member Posts: 1
    fibber2, thank you so much for you help on this forum. I'm also looking for a used 08. I'm wondering if the price you paid includes the "all fee" charged by dealer? If yes, how much is it? Thank you very much.
  • fibber2fibber2 Mid Hudson Valley, NYMember Posts: 3,786
    Full breakdown:

    2008 LE, 20,053 miles = $18,931
    Dealer Doc fees & Gas = $75
    NYS 2 yr Registration & Title = $151
    NYS Inspection = $21
    NYS Sales Tax = $1627

    That's it.... No extra garbage fees.

    Afterwards, I decided to add a Toyota Extra Care Platinum zero deductible 8 year 125k extended warranty. Yes, the Certified van does come with the 7 yr /100k powertrain, but only a 1 yr / 12k B to B. Given our projected usage, I think the 125k miles coverage will be about right. I have lousy luck, and tend to find that I at least break even on these or even come out a little ahead if I get a good price going in. I got a great offer ($1,450) from dealership in Illinois. I doubt that you will find much better out there.
  • fibber2fibber2 Mid Hudson Valley, NYMember Posts: 3,786
    I thought I might clarify something... You do not have to purchase a Toyota (or most brands) extended warranty from the selling dealer. I went shopping on line for the best deal. Over the years I bought a Subaru warranty from a dealership in CT, Honda from KY, and now Toyota in IL.
  • grrldrivergrrldriver Member Posts: 13
    I'd love some feedback from others who have bought used! I am trying to buy a good clean low mileage minivan. I have tried other brands and models with little success; now am trying Toyota.

    I have been using Edmunds.com TMV with disastrous results -- nobody seems to accept these numbers. Not dealers, not private sellers. They often get seriously angry if you bring these numbers in.

    Example: I have found a very nice clean 2005 Sienna with 50K. But the dealer has it marked $17,950. Edmunds TMV (for dealer retail!) is .... $11,040.

    Now that's a darn big gap. I can see going a bit over TMV for an especially nice car, on of the border of "excellent" vs. "good". But $6000? How can there be such a huge gap?

    How can I offer $6000 UNDER asking price? I mean, I can negotiate a thousand or two off the price. But $6000?

    So which price is correct? And how do I keep from getting ripped off? (The van is not Toyota certified, but "dealer" certified, about a 3 month warranty, nothing worth paying for.)

    If I could buy a Toyota van this age and mileage for $11K, I'd be thrilled, but it seems impossible. Dealers all have these marked into the mid-teens. Even a 2004 is about $14-15K. Even private sellers won't go this low.

    How can I trust TMV if it is not represented in reality? Who is getting these fabulous deals? NOT ME!

    Also: any advice on how to deal with dealers who mark up vehicles sneakily with HUGE document fees. I remember just a few years ago the doc fee was like $60. Then it was $100. Today it is standard to charge $250. I am paying cash, so this is insane -- no credit check, no actual DOCUMENTS. Yet I must pay! If I suggest rolling this into the offer, they go ballistic on me.

    I have read here some dealers only charge $75 but I can tell you that is unheard of in NE Ohio!
  • jprocjproc Member Posts: 135
    go to the "smart shopper" board-"what is my trade in worth topic and ask this question.There is a dealer there who is very forthcoming on what used cars are going for.Good Luck!
  • jpfjpf Member Posts: 496
    You'll find used Toyota's are way overpriced. If you want a much lower price either buy a Chrysler (Caravan or Grand Caravan) or GM (Uplander or Montana). I just bought a 2007 Uplander LT (SWB) with 55k miles for about $11k (taxes incl.). The dealership had a 2004 with 133k miles for about the same price and a 2005 with 88k miles for about $15k. I know Toyota is better quality but these price differentials are ridiculous. The Edmunds TMV for the Uplander was about right. Good luck.
  • grrldrivergrrldriver Member Posts: 13
    I finally did buy a 2006 Mazda MPV minivan with 50K -- just a newer version of my old 2001. Not too exciting, but a good solid vehicle. It wasn't as cheap as your Uplander, though.

    I had very few choices, and finally decided this was my best option out of the limited ones available. There are very few affordable minivan choices left, and some vehicles like the MPV just aren't in that big supply, or all the ones you see are very high mileage (over 120K).

    I think Toyota Siennas are a good van, BUT anyone paying $11K for ANY car with 133k miles, especially in a winter climate, has been deluded into "magical thinking" about the most popular Japanese manufacturers! That's just too much money, and out of whack depreciation on those vehicles.

    I definitely found this summer that prices are way up and the supply is way down -- at least of minivans. Many factors, including:
    &#149; Cash For Clunkers removed a lot of good vans from the market, unnecessarily (they are/were no more high mileage than an ordinary sedan!)
    &#149; The Japanese tsunami delayed a lot of new vehicles, pushing some new car buyers into used
    &#149; Overall, MUCH higher pricing on new vehicles of all types has pushed many cash-strapped Americans into used vehicles
    &#149; Dealers taking advantage of all this, and jacking up prices
    &#149; The fact that since 2006, many of the more moderately priced vans (MPV, Venture, Freestar, Montana, etc.) were discontinued, meaning many fewer choices

    It was definitely discouraging. Kia dealers told me that this is the last year for the Sedona, the last of the moderately priced vans. (Chryslers really are not cheap; not anymore!) SO in the future, the choices will be even worse.

    I agree that one must often make a tradeoff between ideal quality and price -- some point, price gouging makes even good quality vans like the Sienna simply unaffordable -- at least for me!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2011
    I totally agree about used Siennas being way too pricey, but the silver lining is if you do buy one, the residual values are strong.

    I bet I could sell my van for $7000 less than I paid for it, new, 4.5 years ago. They hardly depreciate at all. That's about $130 per month.

    Used Kias - my issue with that is the 10.100 goes away, you only get what's left of the 5/60 warranty. Hence low resale.
  • grrldrivergrrldriver Member Posts: 13
    Good points. People want to buy Siennas, but the pricing is so high they are driven to used --- which has driven the USED prices sky high.

    I am quite sure you could sell your Sienna for what you say. I have seen used 2009 Siennas on dealer lots priced only $5000 less than a new model. What ever happened to the old saw that "it depreciates 30% the second you drive it off the lot?" hahahaha.

    Also: an interesting article in my local paper about Priuses -- some owners find they can sell after 1 year or 2 years at slightly MORE than they paid....meaning they drove the car for free.

    You have an excellent point about the Kia Sedona: it has a horrible resale value (at least, on paper) because A. the warranty goes away and B. dealers won't lease it.

    You certainly won't get the resale of a newish Sienna with the Kia. But for a cash-strapped buyer IF you could buy the Kia at Edmunds TMV at the ideal point (IMHO) of 4 years (48 months) of age and under 48,000 (no more than 1000 per month, ideally less) and use that car for 5 years, then you'd be ahead of the Toyota -- quite a bit moneywise.

    That assumes you like the Kia (and I do) and would be satisfied with it. Some people attach great value to the brand, over and above actual performance. Some people could not live with having a US carmarker's nameplate on their bumper -- Toyota and Honda are very important status markers in some upscale areas.

    One example: my niece (then 20) needed a car for college. Her grandfather had left her a beautiful six year old Buick LeSabre -- with every bell and whistle and 19K on the odometer -- leather, CD player, etc. SHE SNEERED AT IT. She told her parents she'd rather die than show up at school amongst her friends (who all had Toyotas and Hondas) with A BUICK. So they sold it at a big loss, and had to put several thousands together to buy her a Toyota Corolla, with no airconditioning let alone leather seats. It was also a couple years older than Buick. It's needed some maintenance as a result. But GOD FORBID the dear girl drive a "low class American" car, even for free.

    I know dozens of such examples. It is very hard to separate the actual quality of Toyota and Honda (which definitely exist) from the "mystique" and I suspect the mystique drives much of the high used pricing.

    Unfortunately I cannot afford any "mystique" so I must look elsewhere for car values.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Priuses -- some owners find they can sell after 1 year or 2 years at slightly MORE than they paid....meaning they drove the car for free.

    Incredible, really. But I think they were helped out by a tsunami that basically cut off supply significantly, driving up used prices. Lucky timing.

    I'm impressed with what Kia has done lately, but the Sedona is an older design. They did put a modern engine and transmission in it, at least.

    I test drove one - my thought was that the base models they were selling for $19 grand were great values. At that price I had no issues whatsoever. The loaded ones pushed high 20s and then suddenly some parts of the interior felt cheap for that price class.

    If you can sacrifice options and content, see if you can get a bargain on a base model.

    Then add a DVD screen for the kids aftermarket, slap on a portable GPS, and call it good. Haven't shopped lately but if you can start at $20k or so for a new one...and used 3 year old Siennas are the same price, go with the one that will still have a warranty in 2021.
  • grrldrivergrrldriver Member Posts: 13
    I should be so lucky, LOL. Yes, I don't think this is always true or will be in the future when Japan is back in their feet, but for SOME Prius owners, it was a fortunate windfall.

    Definitely the Sedona is an older design; it was redesigned in 2006 and a big improvement over the first Sedona.

    Dealers have told me confidentially "this is the last year for Sedona....it's just not selling". Of course, that doesn't matter to me in some ways -- it (should) mean lower prices.

    It's just sad that there will be yet another loss of choice, and almost nothing in the "affordable minivan" category unless you count the Mazda 5, which is frankly a 4 cylinder station wagon and not a true minivan.

    Also your impression of the Sedona is similar to my own. The first few times I saw them (early to mid 00s), I was underwhelmed. Even with a fantastic warranty, I thought they looked a little cheap next to my Nissan Quest. Plastic side door panels, etc.

    They have improved, but are obviously a lower cost alternative to a pricey Toyota or Honda. Certainly SOME of the reason they are cheaper is they have not used as high grade materials in the finishes.

    The LX models (used to be mid-range, but now basically the standard model) are indeed being offered around $19,999 which is not bad. However, they lack some basics like alloy wheels (they have super-cheap plastic hubcaps, which are sure to fall off!).

    If you go up to the EX, you get at least alloys, power seats and doors and much improved upholstery materials. As you say, if you slap on a DVD player (woohoo, what do those run? $30?) and leather, you can push this vehicle up into the 30s. That is far too much to pay for Sedona IMHO.

    There appear to be a lot of Sedonas left on Kia dealer lots -- both '11s and '12s -- and I think in the winter months there will be additional price cuts.

    However, I am far from the new car market in affordability. I think I've owned my last brand new car -- too overwhelming to owe a payment each month, too much depreciation (excepting those lucky Prius owners).

    You make a good point that SOME dealers are pricing USED Sedona LXs from '09 and '10 pretty darn the same as a NEW Sedona LX -- that's crazy talk. You lose the warranty, and don't benefit one inch from some fairly steep depreciation. Don't know who is going for those bad deals, but it is not ME.
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