Buying a Used Sienna

freerider

I'm in the market for a mini van but not wanting to spend too much money. We found at a dealership a 2002 Symphony model for $8600. It has been very well kept, body in excellent condition, interior good, runs excellent as far as I can tell. Noticed a funny odor from the exhaust when dealer first started up that is hard to describe, but finally went away. She has 120,000 miles on her, but have been told by a mechanic it is just broke in. Your comments please, should I bring her home?

freerider

Well, no one said anything...so I bought it. No watch everyone say you shouldn't have!

Good running mini-van if I must say. I'll keep you posted as we run the wheels of of it.

jipster

yes, powertrain should be the last thing to go. bring er home.

schottpgh

My husband and I are looking at purchasing a 2006 Sienna LE (pkg 3, I believe) for $17,200. However, it was used as a dealer service vehicle and has 32,000 miles on it. Should we be concerned? We both drove it and it seems fine, but what can you really tell from a 30-minute test drive?

ateixeira

That price is a steal.

Considering the price is so low, ask if the dealer will run it through the CPO program so that you get it CPO. Even if it adds a grand to the price, you're still getting a bargain.

An 07 LE with that package is over $25 grand.

newbie2007

We are looking to buy a used minivan (sienna or Odyssey) for 10K to 12K.
I did some research on KBB and almost decided to buy 2000/2001 Honda Odyssey. Mainly due to it's 5 star front
crash rating plus folding rear seat. Sienna is little behind wrt these two points.
My brother who also owns a 2001 Sienna told me about this forum. I did some digging in this forum on Odyssey and Sienna. And now, my general feeling is that Honda Odyssey has more repeating problems with Engine and Transmission. Whereas I could not find very prominent and repeating problems being disucssed about Sienna. That makes me think
now I should start looking for Sienna rather than Odyssey.
Please correct me if my feeling is wrong. Also any advise about 2000/2001 Sienna is welcome.

schottpgh

Thanks for the reply....I think we're going to go for it. I thought it was too good to pass up, but wanted another opinion.

ateixeira

Be careful with the 3.0l V6 from that Sienna, as I think those were affected by the sludge issues Toyota had.

I'd search for a later 3.3l V6 model, whenever that was introduced.

If you do get the 3.0l, ask for proof of oil changes, and consider using synthetic oil, which better protects against sludge.

Maybe spend a bit more and get a higher mileage 3.3l V6 that is newer?

freerider

I went ahead and bought it. Rides and runs great. I think we made a good choice. I changed the timing belt, water pump, and new plugs. Get about 24 mpg. Hope to run it to 300k miles.
No engine sludge. Previous owner changed oil regularly.

ateixeira

Cool, congrats, then!

lnt

My son is looking at a 2004 XLE Sienna with 68,000 miles on it. Is the engine a non interference engine? Does the 2004 model still have a belt or does it have a chain? If a belt, should it be changed at 60 or 90 thousand? I think that is a lot of miles, but since it is a toyota, I guess it might be okay. Any warnings about problems with the 04? The people want $18,900 for it.

ateixeira

Price seems high to me. I didn't look at a lot of used ones, but the few that I did see weren't that high, at least not for an 04 with that many miles.

The 3.3l V6 uses a timing belt. I'm not sure about the interval for replacement, though. The 3.5l V6 they started using for MY2007 uses a chain.

Honestly? Get him to sacrifice a few options and just buy new. You can get a CE for $22k brand new, and that's with 266hp. I got an LE package 3, that has power sliding doors on both sides, alloys, trip computer, and stability control cost me just over $25k.

That plus the rebate looks like it went up for June, so he might be able to get one just under $25k new.

I know that seems like a stretch from $19k, but if you think about it the ownership costs might actually be lower. You get lower rates for new car loans vs. used. No timing belt to change, ever. 0 miles vs. 68,000 miles. And I'm sure an 07 will be worth a lot more than an 04 when he ends up selling it.

At least shop for a better price. $19k is just too close to a new one for comfort.

searcher5

Hello Sir..I am looking for 2007 Toyota sienna LE option # 3.Where did you buy? I am in Louisville.Is that the price out the door?Who is the dealer?

jipster

searche, I'm from Louisville. I'd be careful if buying from Toyota of Louisville. They like to play games, as well as try to lay a $480 doc. fee on you.

hansienna

BEWARE of the hype about the 2007 Sienna with 266 HP at a much higher 6200 RPM while the TORQUE had a small increase to 245 Lb Ft at a much higher 4700 RPM.

Would be VERY interesting to see an actual test of a 2007 Sienna 3.5L vs the 2006 Sienan 3.3L. Does the 2007 Sienna ACTUALLY accelerate any faster than the 2006 since the 2007 engine must be revved higher to develop the increased power? :shades:

ateixeira

You don't have to warn me, I own it and the power is there, I feel it every time I hit the gas pedal.

The results are noticeable, too. Even the slow pokes at Consumer Reports got it to 60mph in 7.8 seconds. Another site had it clocked at 6.7, which is sports sedan territory.

Both results are substantially faster than the 3.3l managed to obtain.

Peak horsepower is only 600 rpm higher than before, not exactly "much higher" as you stated.

Not to mention the Direct Injection actually made the torque curve flatter. It makes more torque at all RPM, even near idle.

I saw a torque curve, and it was very impressive.

Sorry, hansienna, but my advice is DO NOT test drive the 3.5l model or you will go into a deep and severe depression. The new engine is much, much quicker. :P

ateixeira

Flat as a pancake. Funny thing is the V6 has such an amazing torque curve that it makes the V8 look positively peaky!

Look like at 2000rpm it's making more torque than the old 3.3l engine did at its peak, just about.

No contest.

Oh, and no sacrifice in fuel mileage to boot.

hansienna

Actual numbers:

3.3L has 215 HP at 5600 RPM / 222 Lb-ft at 3600 RPM

3.5L has 266 HP at 6200 RPM / 245 Lb-ft at 4700 RPM

Tachometer REDLINE is 5900 RPM...so the 3.5L V6 NEVER does achieve Maximum HP unless the tach is in REDLINE. :shades:

hansienna

The 2006 Sienna 3.3L has DIRECT INJECTION just as the 2007 Sienna 3.5L.

Didn't CR test the Sienna 3.3L in an WLL WHEEL DRIVE Sienna that will NOT accelerate as fast as the FWD only? :confuse:

The new 3.5L is just MARGINALLY quicker than the 3.3L if both Siennas are either FWD or AWD. :shades:

ateixeira

You are only looking at one single data point, and mis-using it at that.

What the numbers actually mean is that the new 3.5l breathes better and maintains torque at higher rpms, while the old engine had the torque drop off sooner.

You are (erroneously) concluding that the new engine has less torque at the same rpm. That is wrong, as the graph proves. In fact it makes more torque at all rpm.

So what if peak HP is near redline? It still makes more HP than the old engine at all RPM, from idle all the way up to redline, but even at low RPMs.

Look again at that flat torque curve. It makes more torque at 2500rpm than the 3.3l did at its peak.

More torque all the time in every scenario. With no sacrifice in gas mileage.

The 3.5l wins, period. It's better in every way.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Remove your blind fold and you will see the 3.5l is a brilliant engine and far superior to the 3.3l in your van.

I think you're unhappy with your van for some reason and you've made it your mission in life to put down the Sienna, and that has made you biased enough to ignore facts like the torque curve above.

That's a shame. You seem knowledgeable and could be a good resource to the Sienna owner community, but you simply refuse to. Too bad.

ateixeira

The 2006 Sienna 3.3L has DIRECT INJECTION just as the 2007 Sienna 3.5L

Incorrect. It has MFI, but not DI.

Tachometer REDLINE is 5900 RPM

Incorrect. Redline is 6400 rpm.

The new 3.5L is just MARGINALLY quicker

Incorrect. You have not driven the 3.5l, otherwise you would not say that.

The 3.3l delivered a mid-8 second 0-60 in most publications (sources: Motorweek, Consumer's Guide). Certainly adequate, but not quick by today's standards.

The 3.5l has been clocked at 6.7 and 7.8 seconds (sources: KBB and Consumer Reports), appreciably quicker.

CR's fuel mileage was identical to their old one: 19mpg overall. No sacrifice there either.

hansienna

YOU are the one who needs to read more about the USA version of the 2006 Sienna 3.3L engine. Are the 2006 Sienna 3.3L engines different in Brazil than those sold in the USA?

Do you know more about the 2006 Sienna 3.3L engine than Toyota does? OR, could you be misinformed? :confuse:

Toyota states that the 2006 Sienna 3.3L engine has "Electronic, with Toyota Direct Injection (TDI)" wich is EXACTLY the same description for the 2007 Sienna 3.5L engine.

hansienna

The HP and Torque graphs for the 3.5L V6 AND the 4.3L V8 don't have much value when comparing the 3.5L V6 with the 3.3L V6...both of which have Toyota Direct Injection. Can you post side by side HP and Torque graphs for the 3.3L and the 3.5L?

I have NEVER written that the 3.3L has more power at any RPM than the 3.5L. On the contrary, I pointed out the 3.5L must be revved higher to get maximum HP or torque than does the 3.3L.

As also written earlier, it would be interesting to have an ACTUAL comparison test of the 2006 Sienna 3.3L side by side with the slightly heavier 2007 Sienna 3.5L driven at the same time on the same course where the conditions are as nearly the same as possible.

It is remarkable that the larger 3.5L V6 in a 2007 Sienna can get the same EPA fuel economy rating as the 3.3L V6 in the 2006 Sienna. :shades:

ateixeira

You were wrong about the redline, so what's your source for the 3.3l having DI?

Wikipedia says it does not:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_MZ_engine

The relevant quote:

uses Multi-fuel injection(MFI)

2nd source:

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/kitcar/kb.php?aid=247

quote: "It uses MFI fuel injection"

3rd source:

http://car-reviews.automobile.com/Toyota/review/2004-toyota-highlander-4wd-v6-road-test/831/

quote: "sequential multi-port fuel injection"

4th source:

http://www.electricdrive.org/index.php?tg=articles&idx=Print&topics=42&article=113

quote: "Fuel System Multi-Point Injection (MPI)"

And, drum roll please, from Toyota itself:

http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/environmental_rep/05/download/pdf/eco_02.pdf

quote: "Common rail fuel-injection system"

Sorry but your 3.3l engine does not have Direct Injection. :P

ateixeira

I could not find a torque curve for the 3.3l engine, tried but no luck.

You say the torque curve for the 3.5l doesn't have much value, I beg to differ! It has TONS of value.

You're talking about peak torque, just one single data point.

I'm talking about the torque curve, i.e. torque at every RPM. How can we discuss torque if you're only willing to use one single data point and not all the information I posted right in front of you?

the 3.5L must be revved higher to get maximum HP or torque than does the 3.3L

To get MAXIMUM, peak HP and torque yes, but you do *not* have to rev the 3.5l to get MORE torque and MORE HP than the old engine made, enough to make the 2007 Sienna significantly quicker then the 2004-2006 models.

In other words, just because peak power happens later in the rev range doesn't mean there isn't more power available at low rpm. There IS more power available at low rpm. Torque too.

I agree it would be nice to see torque curves side by side, but as flat as the 3.5l's curve is, the 3.5l is making about 10% more torque across the entire rev range.

hansienna

My source is the 06 specifications page of the 2006 Toyota Sienna brochure that has EXACTLY THE SAME DESCRIPTION for the 2006 3.3L V6 engine ignition that the specifications page for the 2007 Toyota Sienna brochure has for the 2007 3.5L V6 which is Electronic, with Toyota Direct Injection (TDI).

Has Toyota been guilty of deceit when they published their Sienna brochures? :confuse:

Why did Toyota increase the 2007 horsepower by a larger percentage than the torque when torque is THE more important item in a minivan?

ateixeira

Has Toyota been guilty of deceit when they published their Sienna brochures?

Yes, actually. The 2007 brochure says the LE package 3 does not have power seats. Guess what? Mine does.

Also, the 2007 brochure says 20 gallons. The owner's manual and other sources I've seen all say it's 21 gallons.

The brochure also says the LE package 5 drops the VSC option but that's also not true.

I don't know who prints these things but the fact checker was on vacation. I find it so misleading it's not even funny.

Even the colors are off. The light blue looks too light in the catalog, it's darker in person. Even the interior color is off, it's dark in the catalog and lighter in person.

Any how, I would not be surprised to see that the 06 brochure had more mistakes as well.

Shame on whoever published those.

ateixeira

HP went up more because the engine maintains its torque up to a higher rpm range.

In other words the 3.5l breathes a bit better in the high rev range.

It's bigger displacement so it makes about 10% more torque, and that explains 10% of the HP gains. The better breathing at high rpm explain the rest of the HP gains.

HP = (torque x rpm)/5252

The 3.3l's torque dropped off sooner, so HP peaked sooner. Basically the torque drops faster than the RPMs rise.

The 3.5l torque curve is flatter, so at RPMs increase the drop in torque is smaller (less than linear) so HP increases at higher RPM.

hansienna

YES, Toyota is as guilty of providing FALSE information as are Edmunds and CR. My 2006 Sienna LE is one of the BIGGEST disappointments in my life. :sick:

The Sienna has NOT provided the value for the $$,$$$ spent that I got with the $$,$$$ paid for the 2002 Chrysler T&C. The Toyota Sienna and Honda Odyssey are overpriced. :lemon:

ateixeira

You paid more, but you'll get most of it back at resale.

siennami

A couple of years ago I was driving a 2000 Sienna, which I really liked; it was a good van. However, someone else liked it more than I did, and they stole it. By the time I found it(and note that I say I found it, not the police), my ins. had paid it off)I was in a VW Passat. Last summer, I injured my back, and getting into my rather low-slung Passat became a problem. Not only that, I became a foster parent to an infant. Ever tried placing an infant seat in the back seat of a Passat? Kinda hard to do when you're as tall as I am! Anyhoo... I found myself in the market for a larger vehicle, and since I "know" the Sienna, that's what I wanted. To be honest, the salesperson at my local Toyota dealership aggravated the living daylights out of me, so guess what I ended up with? A brand new Kia Sedona, when all I wanted was a gently used Sienna! Fast forward a year..... I don't like the Sedona. It's big, it's bulky, like driving a tank, and the gas mileage just ain't no good!
So.... I'm looking at an '06 LE with 33K miles on it for $20,990. And I'm gonna do something I should've done last year. I'm gonna compare the two. I need your help. Can you tell me honestly that the Sienna gets really good gas mileage? I really need to know that. The Sedona doesn't. To me, when I got behind the wheel last year to testdrive the Sienna, it was so familiar, and I liked that. Call me crazy, but I like knowing where everything is. I need to settle in my mind for once and for all which is better for me. The guy I talked to on the phone said that he'd try to work with me in my "upside down-ness". 'Course I'm not going alone.... 'cuz I'd probably come home with an XLE with every bell and whistle known to mankind with an $800 payment :P
Sorry for rambling! I really believe that if I'm gonna be making a car payment, it'd better be on something I like driving!

Michelle

ateixeira

I strongly recommend the new 2007 models, because of the 3.5l engine. It had more reserve power and torque, but more importantly the gas mileage is the same on the EPA scale, and perhaps a bit better in the real world.

I only have about 1800 miles, but still, my mileage has been excellent.

My last full tank I averaged 25.1mpg, and this is actual miles traveled divided by fuel used, the slightly optimistic trip computer read 25.5mpg.

We took a drive to Six Flags and for that trip we got 27.6 mpg. Then we drove from DC to Ocean City, MD, and got 28.8 mpg. Coming back, all highway, I averaged 29.8 mpg. It just keeps getting better.

At one point, all highway, speeds of 50-65 mph, the trip computer actually read 31.3 mpg, average, not instant. That dropped when my speeds picked up. That was the 29.8mpg trip I mentioned above.

If these numbers sound good, I suggest a 2007 model. You can get a CE for $22k brand new. The rebate is $1500 right now. An LE will cost a tad more, but people are getting package 3s for under $25k now, which is still great.

That's $4 grand above your budget, but remember you'll have longer warranty coverage and get it back at resale anyway.

siennami

Now what exactly is a package 3? I always get confused by the different packages.... The reason I want used is I'm cheap. Property taxes for a brand-new Toyota will be out of this world in my hometown! :P
Thanks for your advice. I saw on the dealership website the different '07s that they have there, and I have to admit that a brand-new Sienna is very tempting+they offer a lifetime warranty on their new vehicles.

siennami

Never mind, I saw what the Pkg. 3 is, and whew! Nice things, but in any case..... I'm not sure that I'll be in a Sienna anytime soon... My "upside-down-ness" is a deal breaker, for sure!

ateixeira

Keep in mind the brochure is a little off. Actually, it's more than a little off.

Package 3 includes power seats, though the brochure says it doesn't. Trust me, mine has them, they're included.

Basically, though, you get power doors on both sides and the safety feature I wanted most - stability control. Alloy wheels and rear discs, too, so it looks good and stops nicely. Rear pads are easier to change, too.

Pkg 3 basically pushes the content from Odyssey LX levels to Odyssey EX levels, for not much money. It's a great value, IMHO.

siennami

Okay... where did you find a CE for that price? I went and test drove one in Columbia, SC today, and the selling price was over $25k. I couldn't find an LE for under $25k. Not only that, they had an CE on the lot that had a drop-down dvd player in it, which jacked its price up to over $28k. All-in-all, I was looking at $30k, and they wanted a $1,300 downpayment, which I just don't have at the moment. Shame, though, because the driver's seat is just wonderful for my back. The Kia's driver's seat can't compare in any shape or form. I really could kick myself, because I am really physically hurting right now, and when I think of having to drive for long periods of time..... Now, I will have to say that I was disappointed in the lack of certain amenities in that vehicle. For example, no privacy glass. What is up with that?? And, I still can't believe they had a CE on the lot for over $28k. The dealer from Florence has contacted me, and I'm wondering if I should even waste my time and his traveling over there. If I do, I'm going to print out that information about TMV and have it in hand. I think that the only one that I can afford right now is the CE, which is fine. Like I said, I was loving that driver's seat. They were willing to give me $15k as a trade-in allowance, but I am just too upside-down.

Thanks for your advice!

Michelle

ateixeira

Shop here:

fitzmall.com

Fitzgerald Toyota has no-haggle prices, just add $99 for processing because their prices even include freight.

I actually got an e-quote from 355Toyota.com that was a little bit lower, and ended up buying mine there.

Get quotes from them, then ask local dealer to beat their prices (watch out for added fees).

It might even be worth making the trip up to MD if local CEs do cost $25k, because I think at fitz they are $22k or even less.

sramamur1

We found a 2005 Sienna LE minian that has 117,000 km in London, Ontario, Canada. The dealer is asking for $15,995. The van had a major service that has been performed at the dealership and had new brake pads installed.

We are concerned about the high kms. Please let me know your comments on the milage and asking price.

Thanks, Sri.

ateixeira

That's about 70k miles, not too bad.

Plus, they must be a lot of trip miles given how quickly they accumulated.

I really have no idea about the used car market in Canada, but I'd expect the 3.3l V6 to be good for a long, long time before any major rebuild, probably 200k miles. It was a very robust engine, and never had the issues the 3.0l predecessor had (sludge).

blacklightning

I am in the same boat that you are..i found some info online this mornging in the," idaho examiner" their Sienna they use for on the job work, starting sputtering and making odd smells...long and short of it...Toyota along with a few other companies have sludge prblems...oil that bogs down/up and makes a sludge like gue in your engine...$6,000 repair...ouch!
toyota has know about it for years and has not changed it yet...paid out class-action suits up to 2002 and now they words things in contracts that make it real hard to re-coup any $$$....

ateixeira

The old 3.0l V6 was affected, but the 3.3l V6 was OK, and the new 3.5l 2GR is from a new engine family.

Not sure what you mean about "not changed it yet"? The engine has been upgraded/replaced twice. :confuse:

Also, they extended the warranty on those to 100k miles.

kimiko

hi there-i'm writing in reference to edmunds' toyota sienna minivan review. edmunds mentioned that the siennas mfg after february 2005 had improved sidebeams and airbags. i called toyota to find the exact date this change occurred as we are shopping for used siennas and wanted the safest one possible. they were not able to find any information on these improvements so i was wondering if you could give me some more info or a contact person to help me find an answer to my question.
thank you,
kimiko

jipster

I don't believe they have "exact" mfg dates. So anything March and beyond should be fine.

kimiko

thanks for the info.
but i was wondering whether anyone been able to confirm whether edmunds is correct about the delay in the safety improvements bec toyota says the improvements apply to the whole model year, regardless of mfg date.
thanks again!

ateixeira

I would expect it would be a model year thing. Check the VIN to be sure, the 8th digit from the right tells you the model year. 4 would be 2004, 5 for 2005, etc.

amazing4

I want to import 1999 Toyota sienna ce from usa to canada.
Is there any modification required to meet canadian standards?
Any more INFO on this,PLEASE

kjo

It was a one owner lease return.I'm not sure what the package is exactly. It has daytime running lights, DVD, JBL, power door (passenger), alloy wheels, rear disc brakes, 115v power outlets, home link, trip computer, heated mirrors. Basically the same as our old 2005 LE that was rear ended on the freeway by semi and totaled. This one is silver with 32k,and new Yokahoma's, the old one was gold with 43k and had new Michelins /w about 4k on them. The insurance company gave me 20K for my old one and I bought this one for 17,900. I like the car. I think it rolls just as good as the other one, my wife says it's not quite as tight as the old one as it was her car. This one is my car as the wife is now driving a new Civic Ex.

After they totaled our LE, I searched briefly for something maybe a little different, used Pilots or 4 Runners, CR-V's, nothing else made sense to me, couldn't be happier. I plan on seeing this one spin 200k. :shades:

ateixeira

Congrats. Hopefully this one has a better fate. Stay safe.

txbz751

Is this the place to mention I am selling a 2009 Slasa Red Pearl Sienna XLE? I am searching for a forum I can try and sell it at. It has 11,700 miles and in great shape. I am getting a company car and want to sell it to get rid of the payment if possible. It is loaded (w/o nav or rear sonar). Leather, DVD, Moonroof, etc. Please point me in the right direction.

Jason

ateixeira

Edmunds doesn't have a classified section at all, sorry.

Try E-bay motors, craigslist, etc.

azdino

Bought a used 2005 Sienna CE van primarily because my wife has arthritic hips and my car had 138,xxx on it.. We are both senior (hate that term) citizens.

After some looking around the Phoenix site of CraigsList we ended up with a '95 CE model with 24,000 miles on it. Gave the original owner $13,500 along with new brakes and Michelins from COSTCO. Total ended up around $14,300.

Doing this avoided and 8 pcent sales tax of $1080 (AZ has tax-free private party sale) and dealers fees of $400 along with their higher sales price.

We love the van! It is of perfect height so she can just slide in and out. It is very comfortable riding and our 2 young g'sons boosters easily fit.

With a bit of CraigsList research (I spent 3 weeks) and a "cash" offer via our credit Union it was a snap. Remember YOU are in control when you have cash or a loan lined up. What you are looking for is an older and LOW MILES vehicle with minimal expensive options.