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Toyota 4Runner



  • mjohnr99mjohnr99 Posts: 193
    . . . there has been no misrepresentation. no fraud. no cause of action. no nothing.

    well . . . maybe we can go after them for a tort claim involving "intentional infliction of emotional distress" if they had this contingency plan since release but good luck proving that! ;>>> Negligence? doubtful, no duty owed. [just kidding with all this . . . but having fun making the point.]

    Although this does not even implicate the question of notice, no one can cry foul here because everyone has been on notice of this issue. Everyone comes to a decision in his or her own right. I have no sour grapes even with the possible change looming. For me (and any folks who just bought 4th Gens), it was the right decision given all the variables at a given point in time for that person. If you believe others who say differently, you will live a life of regrets. Case in point: 9 Months ago everyone was paying $250 for the nifty Motorola V60i cell phone from verizon; then I buy one a month ago and get them down to what I thought was a deal at $130; now I see in today's paper Verizon offering the same phone for $50. So, should I start blaming Verizon? No. Myself? No. Friends who gloat that they made a better decision than you at the $50 price. Yes. They're not friends if they play that game. Reminds me of neighbors always trying to compare and brag about who locked in on their refi at the lowest and "right" time. As far as I can tell, those who bought the cladding look (or bought other vehicles) did so knowing what they were doing and probably have few regrets. I for one am simply disappointed with Toyota's decision to try the new cladding look at a time when I couldn't afford to wait. Others who have bought and focused on the "view from the inside" seem happy with their purchase given all things under consideration at their time of purchase. It is important to make statements with your pocketbook, feedback, phone calls, etc. so that Toyota can assess its choices and perhaps reconsider - but I can't blame them one bit for what I ultimately decided to do. If you have any doubts about this and feel that you may have regrets and would feel Toyota really duped you into buying - they my advice is and has been to wait if you can. It's hard to do, but car buyer's remorse is even harder. If you work through your unique situation and timing carefully and rationally, then I believe any vehicle purchased can be had with no legitimate "regrets" (which is different from "disappointment" which can not be prevented unless just lucky that you bought at the time the phone was $50, or rates were at their lowest, etc.) even if Toyota comes out with a mid-year 500 HP, solid gold, James bond version that gets 100 MPG and only costs $30 grand. That is the goal I think. And ignore "friends" who try to tell you otherwise . . . again, good luck - very interested to see how this all works out.
  • That is exactly what I've done. I have taken my money elsewhere in protest of the high price and ugly new design. There is an hefty monthly payment now going to Nissan instead of Toyota.

    About suing: What I meant is that people who bought the 4Runner despite the cladding are likely to be pissed at Toyota. I admit that I should not have referred to suing. Please dismiss, I guess I was in a bad mood, sorry.
  • mjohnr99mjohnr99 Posts: 193
    WT: I did understand your point and have never included you in the pack who would express sour grapes. The point was subtle: hyperbole to read disappointment between the lines. I got it. So, that others understood the history and context, I put that diatribe on the board. I have never seen you attempt to rain on parades, no apology needed. I remember how excited you were before the days of spy shots and how long you had waited like me to end up with the cladding bummer dilemma. As I said, I am still feeling good about my decision to send Toyota the message with my dollars and I certainly don't feel like a martyr if others who wait get the look they wanted since our hoping and waiting days. Each to his own. The interesting thing now is whether Toyota will really do this. A proletariat revolution actually leading to such a visible exterior change mid-year may be unprecedented for Toyota.

    Who was that poster giving out that number and trying to get every one hyped up to call Toyota? Are you still following this board?
  • I am test driving a new runner tonight, very excited! Anyway, do any of you know of any 4x4 clubs around the country similar to the Xterra clubs that get together once and a while to play with their vehicles?
  • Are we losing our way a little here? I am really surprised by the passionate emotions that cladding brings out. IMHO it doesn't look that awful. I certainly wouldn't consider a dealer paint job that is going to start flaking and peeling after some time. In person and in real world situations, it's practical and with the right color combo, not half bad. I think Toyota did it to push buyers up market to the Limited AND to further differentiate from the GX 470.
  • I find it odd that the GX is equipped with a hand-operating parking brake when the 'Runner comes with a foot brake. I'd have expected the reverse since foot brakes are more associated with luxury vehicles. Do all models of the 'Runner come with the foot brake? (For example, Camry has foot brake only in XLE models)
  • intmed99intmed99 Posts: 485
    The GX has a true transfer case, while 4runner has the dial.

    Yet, the 4Runner is "off-road" version??!! I don't get it. How about the 4Runner having limited headroom because it is "sporty"?? What happen to it's emphasis on off-road?? Mixed messages!
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    they both have a "real" transfer case, it is just that in the Runner it is operated electronically by switches. I am not that wild about that, but it does not mean the Toyota version does not have a transfer case.

    The brake thing is weirder though - if they could put one in the GX, they should have put a hand brake in the Runner too - it is a lot more useful that way, even if there is uphill-assist.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    has a Neutral position on the transfer case, whereas the 4Runner doesn't.

  • Message for you on the dark side !!!
  • Do any of you own a 4Runner preferrably 2001, 2002 model with the sunroof and wind deflector? Is it me or does the deflector seem to create excessive wind noise. I was on the highway going to work today and it was not windy or anything outside. There seemed to be alot of wind noise coming from the top of the truck. I once heard that taking the deflector off cuts down on wind noise but it seems like that defeats the purpose of the deflector. Someone also said that the side mirrors create wind noise but the noise seems to be coming from on top of the truck. What is wrong with this truck. You can hear the wind so much outside while driving. What can be done about this? I have the wind deflector and the roof rack. It's getting to the point where its beginning to get unbearable. Someone please help me.
  • I have two things to add on the cladding issue:

    1) Toyota better do something about the cladding quickly on the SR5 or they are going to have enough SR5s on their dealer lots for a small country. All the dealers in Atl seem to have a bunch of em just sittin there, collecting dust and burnin away holdback $$.

    2) I hope the solution is more than painting the current cladding on the SR5 since it is still sooo bulky. The Sequoia solution seems the best to limit color choices on the SR5 (using the same molding as the Limited) and provide color keying on the Limited only to preserve the category IMO.

    I will bet the SR5 sales would pick up 10 to 20% if they fixed the hideous molding issue.
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    In case you haven't noticed, all manufacturers sales are down. Automotive news just predicted a 14% decrease in November as compared to November of last year. October sales were down 25% across the board.
  • I don't think that changes the cladding issue very much.
  • Took "disinterested" spouse to see 4-Runner. Dealer had about 10 SR-5s in line. Her comment: "The gray one sorta matches (cladding), but the other ones (other colors), look strange."

    I had to agree.

    Wonder, what, if any, survey was made by Toyota before cladding production approval?
  • I think they looked at them in the dark! I agree, the Galactic Grey looks the best with the clad.
  • I have never bought a foreign car before. The last three cars I bought from Ford and GM, I special ordered and used the same purchasing procedure. I typed up exactly the car I wanted on a sheet of paper, and gave it to five dealers within 25 miles of my house on a Friday and told them I would be back next week to pick up the sheet with their best price. Typically the prices have varied by as much as $2500, but I have considered anything within $400-$500 to be equal, and then used other factors to make the final decision.

    My question is, can I use a similar method with the numerous Toyota dealers near me? I went to the Toyota web site and found out the option packages that are sent to my region. I want a 4Runner Limited in titanium with the top level option package. I am in no hurry, as I am used to waiting three to four months for domestic special orders.

    Do you think this procedure will work with Toyota dealers? Thanks.
  • That's not too bad of an idea, however, I personally think that service and quality of the people at the dealership you finally end up buying from is a major factor. I would stop into the different dealerships in the area, maybe talk with some of the people in the service departments to see how they think of the service dept., talk with a salesperson there to see how willing they are to be helpful and open with you about the truck you're buying, etc. Give them you're paramaters and see what happens. I would agree with you in that $400-$500 difference is pretty close and that all things being the same, the other factors should make the deciding factor in your decision making.

    Hope this helps.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    Like Ken indicated, that is not a bad plan of attack, but there are a couple of caveats to be aware of. The first is that genuine special orders will not happen. The truck is built in Japan and we pretty much take what we get. While it is technically possible to do a factory order, most dealerships wont do it (there are a bunch of reasons for this that I will not get into right now). You are better served by finding out the typical equipment that is coming to your region and working with that.

    Next, I agree with Ken that there is more to a good deal than the lowest price. Finding an honest dealer is hard to do but possible and worth the effort. Even if you pay $400 more but don't feel slimed at the end, you got a great deal. I've seen and heard too many horror stories to believe that it doesn't matter who you buy from.

    My suggestion would be to send e-mail to everybody and examine the results. Throw out any that don't answer your questions on the first attempt. Find the one that is the most responsive and work with him to make sure the price is fair.
  • Thanks for the advice. I would not be special ordering, I would just want the 4Runner with the option package that they typically ship to my region in titanium. So, you would recommend e-mail rather than going to the dealerships first? Who should I e-mail? Should I use the e-mail dealer links that are on the Toyota "build your own" web site?
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    It depends on a few things. If you know the one you want and don't need to test drive, then yes, start your e-mail search. If you would prefer to have some face time with the dealership, I suggest a different strategy. Call the dealership closest to you and talk to the operator. Tell her you want to talk to a salesman but you want her to tell you who the most professional, lowest pressure and most informed salesman they have. Trust me, the operator will know who to send you to.
  • sbell4sbell4 Posts: 446
    If you do not want to spend a lot of time and effort I would ask your friends that have a Toyota who they bought it from and why. Ask about the service department to see any positives or negatives and then I would stop by the dealership to get a "feel" of the atmosphere. If you like what you see and hear I would simply ask the salesperson or the sales manager what they suggest would be the best way to get the vehicle with the equipment you want at a fair price to all involved. I predict the dealership should be able to provide you with any and all info you need to make a well informed decision. You always have the right to go elsewhere if you do not get the answers you are looking for.
  • I have owned all three of the previous generations of the 4-Runner and can honestly say that the only thing I hate about my 1996 4-Runner is the wind noise. I noticed it from the moment that
    I drove it home from the dealership in 1996. I think that it is so pronounced because the rest of
    the vehicle is so quiet; there is very little engine, exhaust, road or tire noise. Initially I thought that there was something wrong with my vehicle because there was so much wind noise; I had
    it back at the dealership many times in the 1st year to try and get some satisfaction but to no
    avail. It seems to be the most noisy when it is a relatively dry day; as it there does not seem
    to be too much wind noise when it is rainy. I think there are atleast 2 major contributing factors
    to the wind noise problem; the first is just the shape of the vehicle, and the second is the general lack of sound deadening material in the doors and the thin glass in the doors. Overall,
    the previous generation seemed to have a more "solid" feel in the doors and body panels although it was no quieter. It was just a different type of noise coming from the tires, engine,
    and road. I am sorry that I cannot give you much hope for solving the wind noise problem.
  • Just to feed the fire: They say they prefer the cladding...


  • hengheng Posts: 411
    I've been looking but have not seen one advertisement from a Toyota dealer that they have 4Runners. Neither have I seen any out front of any dealers I've passed. (haven't driven into any dealer lots)
  • I've hit these discussion boards occasionally and have been impressed with the level of detail and enthusiasm shown by 4runner enthusiasts. I thought I might post a question here to see what sticks to the soundboard....

    I have a 99 4runner sr5 limited, with 72,000 miles on it. It's my 4th toyota, and I've never previously had to replace a timing belt....but I think that time has come near. I know there is a 60k mile window for changing, but on a service checkup a few months ago, was advised it was fine. Now, however, something is a little off and I can't quite put my finger on it. I'm certainly not very experienced mechanically, but I've been known to change out fuel and water pumps on classic cars in younger days....but I'm really starting to question my engine evaluation skills.

    "Trigger" has begun running somewhat sluggishly - I've checked tranny fluid thinking that to be the cause of sluggish umph from a dead stop, changed all the filters, and checked what I could under the hood. But I'm not able to find anything to point me in a further direction. I did some extensive traveling in Utah from Texas, and the octane rating regulations there are less than here - so even using premium there was the equivalent to medium grade here, and I didn't always do that.

    There is no knocking or pinging, and I've tried a couple of fuel treatments. My thoughts are jumping to timing belt fatigue.

    I have not been able to find much information that describes symptoms of a fading timing belt, but my assumption is running higer operating temps because of the water pump link.

    Has anyone else experienced timing belt problems, and is this one? Or has someone experienced the sluggishness at about this mileage?

    Thanks for any comments/thoughts.
  • peter78peter78 Posts: 284
    After reading your question, I am a little confused. I am not sure you replaced the timing belt or not. Also I am a little confused about your water pump link and it running higher temperatures.

    Timing belts do stretch ever so slightly, but usually not enough to mess up the timing. They tend not to stretch, but to break. What usually happens is the engine is running fine until the belt breaks. Then of course, the engine doesn't run. Their is not a symptom of any kind before the break.

    If a serviceman says your timing belt is fine. Well it is fine, until it breaks. A serviceman cannot tell if a belt will break just by looking at it. That is if they even looked at it, it is hard to get to. It is better to go by the service schedule.

    Now about the water pump. They usually recommend replacing the water pump when they replace the timing belt, because the water pump is run by the timing belt. If the water pump should start failing or start leaking, it could affect the timing belt and the belt could then break.

    So if your 4Runner is sluggish, chances are it is another problem. It may not be the transmission, it could be in the electrical system. Taking it to a shop, even a non-Toyota dealer, can probably yield results. Once they run a computer check on the engine, it will probably show something.

    Now I have a question for the board. My 2001 4Runner has a 90,000 timing belt replacement. If "canyongirl" replaces her timing belt on the 99 4Runner, does the replacement stay at 60,000 or go up to 90,000?
  • trdsctwo
    Thank you for giving me some insight on this matter. It's really not as a bad as I'm making it out to be I guess. I've researched the problem on the internet and it turns out that many vehicles that are large such as SUV's and other trucks produce significantly more wind noise than cars. It's due to the size of the vehicle. The bigger it is, the more wind resistance you are going to create and hear inside the vehicle. I was on the highway today coming to work again and it was not as bad as the other day. Maybe there was more wind that day than today, I don't know. But this is one truck that I'm definitely going to keep. It rides so great and it's smooth, not to mention I get lots of looks while driving it. The reason I get those looks are because the truck is just very attractive and pleasing to the eyes of most individuals. The design is beautiful and classic. I wouldn't trade my 4Runner for anything.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    1. the timing belt on the Runner is driven by the external drive belts, NOT the timing belt. Old timing belts run just like new timing belts until they snap or jump timing for some reason, and if it had jumped timing, this truck would be running like CRAP, not just "slightly off". of course, if the belt snaps, engine quits, that is it.

    2. The timing belt interval for all '96-'02 Runners is 90K - even when it was listed at 60K this was for the "severe service" interval only. I know several people with 3rd gen Runners, and they let their timing belts go to 90K routinely without problem, as I do in my 2nd gen. If you are a very cautious person, or you often find yourself way out in the wilderness where getting a tow could be problematic, you might want to change it sooner...

    P.S. They usually recommend changing the water pump with the timing belt because it has to come off either way, so there is no charge for labor if they do it at the same time, and water pumps do wear out.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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