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Comments
BTW, what do you mean by: "the party that delivered my check said he took in a V6 with a belt tensioner problem." It is a bit unclear
Also, what vehicle do you plan on getting now?
Thank you and good luck with your next car!
Fortunately, nothing wrong at all with my 4Runner. Maybe it would be helpful to people looking over all these forums though.
Sorry for your bad luck. 04's are coming out in late July or August... how about an 04 4Runner?!
give us the step by step details of your situation in a short summation, if you would.
on another subject, i have a friend in japan looking into ordering me the chrome grille shown in the hilux accessories section of the japan website. it's 15,000 yen which is about $130. he's checking to see if a toyota dealer in japan will take payment from me and ship me one in the USA.
I do feel the pressures of keeping the price down has effected both Honda and Toyota. Some Honda's now have average reliability, something I thought would never happen. It is good Toyota brings out a new 4Runner with a minimal price increase, but sometimes cost cutting can be harmful. I noticed some of the plastic items on the new 4Runner are not the same quality as the older ones.
You asked, what should I buy next. I have a link to JD Powers. It is interesting that upper brands do better in their survey. Such as Acura does better than Honda Motors and Cadillac does better than GM. You never know which car is the best. If you still like Toyota, to me the Lexus name plate looks to be the best.
I hope Toyota's going to the Lemon Law is just a fluke.
http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2003028
I am 6'4" with a longer upper body so the 1.5" you loose with the moonroof causes the left part of the top of my head to be in constant contact with the side of the moonroof. I think it would really hurt to go over ANY bumps what so ever.
Maybe i can just move the seat 1.5" to the right so i am completely under the moon roof so my head sticks up into it!!
Plus, there are some options in the sport package that i would really like to have!! Then again, i guess i would rather have the base 4runner, then the highlander, or, dare i say it.. an SUV from another manufacturer!!
I am 6'3" and I have the same problem in certain positions. But with a little experimenting I made it work.... without altering the design.
I am 1" taller then you so i would have to go back even further. I wish toyota designers would realize that north americans, on average, are quite tall and would take this into account when designing vehicles.
One question for you chilton, if a package was availble that didnt have a moonroof, would you have purchased it instead?
The advantage a uni-body (Highlander for example) has in creating more interior space- although that may not be an option for the off-road lovers (like me!)
It sucks you can't get a Sport w/o sunroof. I opted for a 4x4 sport w/o sunroof. It has more head room (alot- maybe a good 1.5 to 2 inches), I rarely used my sunroof exept for venting, the noise/rattles,and the repair cost to a sunroof is astronomical! I'm much happier without it.
I know you said you didn't want the SR5 but it is similar (except no XREAS). It is still a great truck and the SR5 has the cool mirrors way in the back
Another option- a simple one, but may leave you without a truck for a day- is to replace the seat cushion bottom at a auto interior shop. Have them replace the stock foam with a denser, 1.5-2" thinner cushion, reuse the same fabric cover (pulled 1.5-2" tighter of course:)). Or shave 1.5" off the bottom of the stock cushion. Then you have the additional room and your truck looks perfectly stock.
as to your question, it is so_cali and i am indeed in southern california ... san diego to be exact.
thanks jon
Yoy may want to ask in Tires, tires, tires too.
Steve, Host
I plan on offroading and trailoring heavier loads so a highlander is not high on my option list.
I am not going to be buying till the fall / winter time frame so i guess i still have a few months to figure out if i can tweak the seat enough for me to consider the 4runner.
Thanks for the good idea!
The cushion is a no-brainer for a auto upholstery shop- really easy for them and should be relatively inexpensive- especially compared to new brackets or seat. The stock seats are so nice, it would be a shame to throw them out.
Hopefully you can find an adjustment on the stock seat.
One idea you might consider is having a welder lower the seat by fabricating new brackets—I’m 6’4”(tall torso) and have a 2000 4Runner—I gained about 2”—I love my car now. My wife and I are trying to decide what to get her and we are looking at the MDX, Sequoia, and 03/04 4Runner—I would get the limited 4Runner with V8 and AWD but I don’t fit—in my opinion the 4Runner is going to be the most reliable in the long run as it is still produced in Japan. I would like to hear which route you decide to take.
I figure the seat cushion is the cheapest, simplest, least "intrusive" modification to get headroom.
an interesting link on california sulfur regulations:
http://www.elaw.org/resources/text.asp?ID=946
national fuel quality map:
http://exxon.com/USA-English/Files/US%20Gasoline%20Map%20100102.p- df
Is the sulfur an issue that just creeped up recently, or has this been a problem since the initial launch last September? And what happens if this problem does not turn up on some vehicles until after the warranty expires? I would sure hate to see what costs would be involved in that situation. By the way, has anyone determined if smelling this stuff is harmful to ones health?
To put it in perspective:
All manufacturers occasionally produce vehicles which are classified as "lemons". Even Toyota.
Many (virtually all?) manufacturers produce vehicles which are sensitive to the sulfer content in gasoline and will emit sulferous smells under certain conditions. The same emissions equipment which help a manufacturer achieve a LEV or ULEV rating for a car apparently also make these cars more susceptible to sulfer. Ironically, it seems as thought the quest for ever cleaner emissions LEADS to an odor problem.
Costs after warranty expires? If the problem only crops up after the engine has over 36,000 miles, it is probably due to a fairly simple problem (component failure) in the emissions system OR a change in the gasoline formulation being used.
Harmful to health? Very debatable. If memory serves, only individuals with other repiratory problems (asthma) are affected at fairly high sulfer dioxide concentrations.
http://api-ec.api.org/environ/index.cfm?objectid=A866F00F-8052-11- - - - D5-BC6B00B0D0E15BFC&method=display_body&er=1&bitmask=- - - - 001003002003000000
If anybody is asking for my opinion (funny, nobody has so far. . .) I'd say it's worth searching this thread and reading the history, and doing other searches as well. Some authoritative sources (lost in the hazy mists of my memory, but they were petroleum folks) do point to LEV/ULEV vehicles as being worse because they're tightly controlled to operate with the leanest practical mixtures. Lean operation results in sulfur deposits in the catalytic converters, and those are released under rich mixture (heavy acceleration) conditions. I've been able to duplicate this on my vehicle, but only under heavy acceleration and only when I leave the rear window open. I can't remember anybody explaining how this smell would get into the cabin when all windows are rolled up, but some have reported that.
BTW, the petroleum folks note that humans are extremely sensitive to sulfur compounds, at levels that are far below anything harmful. So it seems that these don't qualify as major pollutant problems or health risks, but they have displeased some people to a great degree, and I can understand why.
That is common in various degrees on most vehicles. A Forester will do the same thing- maybe not as much or maybe more. It depends on conditions and the aerodynamics of the car.
Returning a vehicle based on that...you will be returning alot of cars.
Take note however that the fluttering happens in other SUVs besides the 4runner. It is the non-aerodynamic shape of these vehicles (boxy interior and vertical back) that triggers the excitation. Add to it large wheels and sensitive suspensions and you have a recipe for easy vibrations.
I don't think it is a design flaw. It has to do with the aerodynamics, such as they are, of vehicles like the 4Runner. The basic idea is to shape the vehicle such that turbulence in the airflow around the vehicle is minimized. Were the 4Runner shaped differently to eliminate the "unbearable shaking" you might just increase the aerodynamic drag coefficient and end up paying more for gasoline.
Opening the rear window tends to distort the flow to give you the thumping effect while also opening a side window partially compensates.
Having said that, the situation you describe does seem out of the ordinary.
You can see the general aerodynamic principle here. (It's technical but if you bother to look, the shapes of interest are the sphere and hemisphere.)
tidester, host
I'm also 6'4" and struggling to fit in the 4runner comfortably. Currently I have a 3 door Golf GTI with sunroof and pretty good head clearance and my wife has a CRV which has lots of headroom. So it was a bit of a shock to find the 4runner such a problem. Personally I wouldn't want to lower the seat height any more as they already feel too close to the floor to me giving reduced leg support. Also I like to sit with the seat-back as vertical as possible which makes it that much worse. Curiously there is almost no clearance underneath the front seat for the rear passengers to put their toes, so if you put the front seat all the way back then the rear is also compromised.
But a 4runner without the moonroof option makes all the difference for me, but they're as rare as hen's teeth especially as I want a V8 too. I plan to remove the larger visor because this covers the top inch of the windshield from where I want to sit! Looking at the standard Toyota options - an SR5 with V8 and without moonroof are available in CA but do not appear to be a popular combination. It turns out that a Sport with V8 and without moonroof is available as a standard combination in Oregon though I've not found one yet, so you might like to consider looking out of state. Alternatively if you build to order then you can get whatever you want but have to wait 3 months. From my point of view there's just no way I'm going to buy a vehicle that I can't sit comfortably in ...
Hope this helps.
It's just my guess.
sv
Honestly, this subject has been beat to death. It is simply the new design in the catalytic converters to help them pass emissions laws. What's more, the gas in the USA has a high sulphur content and contributes to the smell. You are not going to get cancer or have health problems. In fact, our butts most likely produce more stinky emissions than these cars and I don't see you trying to invoke a lemon law on your maker!
The good news about the smell is that it lessens after 5-7k miles. In the meantime:
1) keep you back window up. you really want all that exhaust in the cabin???
2) avoid full-throttle acceleration. that aggravates the problem.
Now, my '03 SR5 4x4 V8 (aka Frank the Tank) is experiencing a "wobble" from 50mph-65mph. I have the 17" wheels with Dunflop tires. A tire seems to be out of balance.
Also, I notice a driveline vibration at about 1800 rpm....is that the notrious resonance I've read about in the V8? Or is it just a 4x4 trait? This is my first 4x4, so I'm still learning.
Overall, it's a fabulous truck. Some people will get lemons not matter who makes the car. It's fallacious to make a statement saying "my car was a lemon, therefore the quality at toyota has decreased." Toyota has always had lemons. They produce millions of cars and trucks every year. There are thousands of parts that go into them. If only 1 part per million is even bad (which is OUTSTANDING quality), that means you might have 1 in 1000 cars that are a lemon. It's the nature of the business.
We're looking at the 4Runners. The wife and I are having differing opinions, and I was wondering if the group has any useful input. My wife's opinion is to buy used and save some money. BUt when I am doing my research, with the TMV price, it's close to what used ones are going for, and this is for a new vehicle.
For example, I've been looking at used 2002 4-Runners. They seem to go anywhere from around $23000-$27000 depending on trim. Looking at the new 2003 on Edmunds, TMV is around $25000, and adding another $1300 for leather (which I'd prefer), that gets you to $26,500. Now, assuming Toyota will want to start clearing out 2003's in the next month or two, I'd expect them to start coming out with some nice cash rebates or financing offers, which brings the price of a vehicle even that must more close to a used 2002.
So what do you guys think? Believe me, I'm all for saving money, but when you can buy new for almost the same price, maybe a few thousand difference, what do you do? BTW, we both prefer the 2002 body style, but that wouldn't stop (at least me) from taking a new truck over a used for the same price).
Thanks!
Aaron
My light came on while passing through Page, AZ. I stopped, looked it up in the manual (it was tough to find it) and reset it myself.
Look in your manual. I THINK you turn on the ignition (but don't start the vehicle) while holding the trip reset button.
Good luck!
Toyota is doing some tricky stuff with temperature sensing, by the way. The exterior ambient temperature sensor is combined with vehicle speed data, but I don't know why. Also, the little nub at the base of the windshield (inside) on the left side is an interior sensor that reads both temperature and infared. Presumably it's there to help the climate control function better, but the repair manual is light on theory-of-operation material.