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Comments
2004 should be arriving in mid September at the dealerships.
i want to add the OEM fog lights and replace the plugs for them in the front bumper. has anyone done this? does anyone know the part numbers and labor time required?
thanks in advance!
ps - to the guy thinking about the black one at $500 under invoice. if they have the truck you want now, get it NOW while they do, or it will become the fish story of the one that got away.
ALso thanks to others for their useful replys!
A couple points: Some people keep refering back to altitude. Yes, the higher the altitude the lower the air pressue. The lower the air pressure, the less number of O2 molecules get into the combustion chamber etc. etc.
I'm comparing how the vehicle performs at the same altitude when varying temperature. So I'm talking about a ZERO altitude difference. The key word is difference. That is, the difference from one case to the other. I'm not refering to sea level or any other altitude in my comparisons.
Several folks make some good points about how that when the fan is engaged it takes alot of power from the engine. But would you expect it to be a large enough power reduction that it downshifts to 3rd on a "steady state" (constant rate) climb where it would normally only downshift to 4th?
I guess I'd feel better if it only happened in Death Valley conditions and hotter. To have it happen in high-90s seems a little low to me. Especially given that I wasn't towing anything and only had one other person in the car.
In other words, if I were towing a few thousand pounds I assume that the effect would be that the same power reduction would happen at a lower temperature. So how much lower would that be?
Just some thoughts...
Cheers,
Eric
Others have noted that this vehicle uses a traditional scheme where a viscous coupling mates the fan to a pulley that also drives the water pump. The coupling firms up when things get hot, but perhaps someone here can explain why it's also temporarily firm right after starting the engine.
I noticed right away that the engine had a mild roar just after starting, which went nearly silent after 10-15 seconds. The noise was from the fan, as the clutch keeps it coupled for that long. After that, it spins slower and makes much less noise.
I don't know why it works this way--perhaps it's just the way these clutches work until the internal fluid gets spun out to the perimeter. Maybe it's the way they want things to work, since it would help the ambient temperature sensor get a better reading soon after engine start. Anybody know these things better than me?
If it is sensing engine temperature through the crankshaft I would expect it to turn off after some time when it successfuly cools things down.
If it is simply sensing air temperature, I would think that it might just stay on (although the air moving over it has to go through the radiator beforehand anyway).
I'm seeing it just stay on until the outside air is cooler.
Cheers,
Eric
http://service.gm.com/techlink/html_en/pdf/200207-en.pdf#dst01
The unpainted is a bit different because it had squarish ridges molded in while the painted AP cladding (what you and everyone now gets) is smooth, without squarish ridges.
http://service.gm.com/techlink/html_en/pdf/200207-en.pdf#dst01
-Eric
I was considering buying a spare key and our local dealer told me the same thing you've heard. A $100 spare key because it's $50 for the transponder chip-equipped key and $50 to program the ignition box to recognize it.
I don't know why Toyota would change the process to require a tool that apparently only the dealers have. Maybe (I'm being generous here) they are trying to enhance security by making this operation something only a dealer can do.
I'm sure it will be scant comfort, but it's worth noting that the cost of a service manual set dwarfs that of a new key, even after programming!
http://www.atra-gears.com/gears/2002-10/2002_10_64.pdf
-Eric
A co-worker of mine has 2003 4Runner Limited. He'd like to reprogram his remote so that one click opens all four doors ... called up a dealer, they told him it could be done - for $40. *^$%$%^##@$#^% !!! Can anybody help with this? Where could I find reprogramming instructions?
And is it possible to turn off the automatic re-locking after 30 seconds (if you unlock the vehicle and don't open any doors, it'll re-lock itself in 30 seconds). OTH it would be really funny if these instructions are in the manual... he swears he read it.
Thanks in advance,
Tomek
Steve, Host
http://www.keylessride.com/
Look for their FAQ section
I guess that's a little better than the dealer.
-Eric
However if they do give some rebates to "clear out the 03's" They will most assuredly be for the Limited V8 and not much else- at least I believe this to be true in the western region.
There was an earlier poster that was waiting months for a V6 Sport. There was no waiting for a V6 Sport when I bought BUT I went through a special credit union service that did a whole region search for what I wanted. The two dealerships I visited did not have a V6 Sport.
What the lots were stacked with were V8 Limited's then V6 SR5's and one V8 Sport.
I guess what I'm saying is that you might not have a large selection to choose from. Even not waiting, I got mine for just above invoice so I'm very pleased.
I like the black sport model(just so happens to be the one I selected). Remember, everybody does have their choice...and their own opinion.
Any ways you would not want to pull much more than 5000 lbs at highway speeds. The vehicle is just not big or heavy enough for safe towing above that. especially if live weight ie horses.
Thanks so much for you help cheers steve.
I agree that it would not be wise to approach these limits. Using the vehicle at 70% of rated capacity would probably be pretty safe, and would give a usable trailer weight roughly equal to the dry vehicle weight. I have a friend towing a 7,000 lb boat/trailer combination with an older model 168 HP 6 cylinder 4runner - with 180,000 miles. Tough truck.
I picked my truck up yesterday. According to the door sticker, it was built in June. You should be seeing more of the new hitch design soon.
-After washing, use a blower to blow most of the water off. This gets water out of alot of the nooks and crannies-and saves you time n'at
-Use a chamois, or synthetic chamois. Don't worry about getting it 100% dry.
-Finally, use a detailer spray with NO WAX in it, and spray and wipe off with an absorbent towel.
that's it-one nice shiny truck
Thanks to my brother H for his insight on this issue-
Anyway, my reason for posting, is to hopefully give those considering using the Lemon Law some perspective as well as some motivation to take action. Even my choice to defect to a Toyota competitor resulted in a pesky check engine light issue that led me down the lemon law path . . . now seems relatively minor compared to what some of you seem to be upset about on this smell deal. Realize that even if you had made a different choice, there would have been something else for sure to deal with with that other choice. Thus, cars will be cars; no matter how much research and effort and time you put into making the best choice for you, these things are almost unavoidable. That's the perspective.
Now, hopefully some motivation to go get relief (sounds like reddfish and other have already done a good job though): go over to the "Nissan Pathfinder Club-Problems & Solutions" board and read posts 673-678. In those posts, I describe and include copies of the demand letter and related materials that I used for my lemon law situation. [As I state there, you should also send a blank E-mail to kkulig@aol.com with the words "Lemon Law Document Request" in the subject line. You will receive a terrific document in a reply E-mail that explains another guy’s story.] Although my situation with the check engine light was different and I was able to get them to fix the problem (with dispensation to me in the form of scheduled maintenance, extended warranty, etc.), I think this may help motivate anyone considering taking action and wondering whether this stuff is too difficult for them too handle and whether they need an attorney (they do NOT). If my situation did not resolve itself, then like reddfish, I too would have gone to arbitration.
So, don't feel down, realize that if you had chosen another vehicle like me, you could have easily had something else like I did (a check engine light is admittedly pretty common . . . but still, it was a new vehicle!); and then realize, that these lemon laws are very consumer oriented and that every state has a consumer protection division to assist you through the process with the manufacturer. Then go for it; you have little to lose and much to gain.
Good luck and hope this helps anyone feeling like I did a few months ago.
rentschl, I think you're right about the $15-$20 cheaper prices from non-Toyota folks (though the keys appear to be genuine Toyota). Depending on the dealer and your desires, it might be worthwhile to approach them with a printout from the site and say "Hey, you and I both know this programming stuff only takes 10 minutes, would you match this price?" You still might pay more sales tax that way, though.
For those unfamiliar with these transponder-equipped keys and key fobs, I'd like to clarify a couple of things about programming. It's not the keys or the fobs that get reprogrammed, it's the immobilizer/ignition control unit. The keys are simple devices that get "excited" by an antenna near the ignition lock and just reply with a fixed sequence that cannot be changed. If the vehicle doesn't recognize the sequence it will refuse to start.
The situation is almost the same with the fobs. They actually send out a code (I think it's 72 bits long and repeats 3 times) that changes or "rolls" over time. It can't be programmed, though.
In both cases, programming the system for new keys or fobs is mostly a matter of teaching the vehicle control unit which codes are valid. The funny dance and hand-held tester are used (along with a known recognized master key) to place the control unit in a teachable mode. I don't know what hand-held testers the non-Toyota folks use--they may be able (as locksmiths) to buy the Toyota testers or perhaps aftermarket versions are available, just like OBD-II analyzers.
While I'm on the subject of programming, someone asked about setting the alarm arming modes. As far as I can tell, this is all part of the ignition/immobilizer control unit and present in all new 4Runners. If you get the option for the VIP RS3200 alarm, they enable the system at the port and give you the manual, which is actually a thin booklet. That has the instructions for the various modes, but I don't know whether it's exactly the same data as in the repair manual set or not.
My two frustrations about this stuff and all the automatic door locking/unlocking are that 1) they haven't made it as flexible or disable-able as I would like and 2) it's harder to program with all the funny dance steps than it would be to use some buttons and an alphanumeric display like some other vehicles do.
That's my best understanding. I may be wrong on some points, and I'm sure others with more knowledge will step in to clarify.
Steve, Host
I had a black car once, a very nice one. I had to wash it all the time and EVERYTHING showed up on it. Waxing...well every little thing, every little crack and crevice... you get the idea.
In the sun, oh my goodness! Grab that door handle and roast your fingertips!! Don't even think about touching the car unless you like the smell of burning flesh!
Also I read that a black car gets 1-2mpg less than a white car because the heat buildup makes for a hotter running engine that is less efficient. I read this in ConsumerReports or ReadersDigest a while ago.
Alot of people do just fine with black or dark cars. They look great but FOR ME, nope never again.
Aaron
I thought I was close to sealing a deal on a V6 4Runner Sport Edition until the salesman showed me how they were figuring the lease.
The MSRP on this vehicle was $32506 and we agreed on a selling price of $29100. When the finance guy figured the lease payment, he was using the base MSRP of $30495 (without options)instead of the full MSRP. When I pointed this out, he told me that was the way Toyota Motor Credit figured their leases.
Has anyone else ever heard of this?? I have leased several vehicles in the past and this has never been the case. The lease has always been figured on the full MSRP and the cap cost.
Was the dealership being honest? I think they are wrong.
Thanks for the input.
"T"
He also said Toyota probably won't offer anything on the 4Runners, just cause there aren't very many left, but that's not what I'm seeing on the lots.
Aaron
My dealer has maybe 1 or 2 left.
sv
It also means that if the kind of options you are looking at pushes you close to a Limited, and you are leasing, it may warrant purchasing the higher line of car (you may save money even with a higher price).
other guy: "Who owns that truck?"
me (the young guy): "I do."
og: "But you're white."
me: "so is my truck"
og: "Why didn't you buy American???"
me: "Because they don't offer the same quality. I didn't like them."
og: "You unpatriotic @#$@!"
me: (I'm thinking at this point whether to laugh or run...) "I love being American."
og: "If I saw you in the woods I'd shoot you."
me: (If i was a cop, I would've arrested him at this point. If I was a lawyer, I'd sue him. But my wife grabbed me and pulled me back towards the car.) "You redneck piece of ignorant... (wife pulls me into car)"
OK, so there are some really stupid people out there. They just don't get it!
It's hard to call someone who works for the US defense system "UNPATRIOTIC".
WHEW! And I was afriad of the hippies!!!
Your wife is right, it's not worth the hassle. You're not going to put a dent in stupidity with logic.
Your best bet is to simply and cheerfully agree with him. "Oh I buy American. I support the American free market just like you! Thanks!"
Or, "You know what, I tell my wife that ALL the time. Why DOESN'T Ford and GM buy more American products? Now that Chrysler is foreign-owned, we gotta keep our American products here in America right? Go Nissan!"
"I bought American. I bought from an American dealership that employs many American families and support the American shipping industry that brought the truck here. I also plan on having my truck serviced right here in America where my money will go to an American mechanic."
Really sucks to have your patriotism questioned but look at the source. It's just ignorance you gotta feel sorry for the guy more than anything.
Then we got to the V8. It wouldn't start due to a dead battery. After it got jumped, I started driving away. I hadn't gone 30 feet & could tell this was a whole different vehicle. I could now feel the road & the softness was gone. I'm guessing this is due to the extra weight of the V8 & probably different spring rates. As I began driving there was immense shimmy in the steering which stayed almost 2 miles before it disappeared. The V8 model I drove had X-REAS, & I can only guess that something hung up on one the gizmo's this SUV comes with. The vehicle pulled to right the entire drive.
Now, about the V8, all I can say is what a fantastic engine. It pulls like a sled dog & doesn't want to quit. I never came close to flooring it & its just wants to GO, GO, GO. But with the good comes the questionable or bad. Every time I put even the slightest pressure on the accelerator the transmission downshifted. This drove me nuts. I'm sure its due to programming to meet EPA estimates by getting the tranny in the highest gear possible (before accelerating), but it was unsettling.
Last but not least, the handling was excellent with no body roll. I'd chalk this up to the X-REAS. Definitely a firmer ride but worth it. It's too bad you can't get the X-REAS without a sunroof unless you build your own & find a dealer who will accomodate. Luckily, my dealer said order when you're ready, but I wasn't impressed. As for the dash buttons for HVAC, my wife loved them; I feel If I have to take my eyes off the road to dicker with them then they are distracting. Hopefully 2005 models will have some dials, and have X-REAS as well as sunroof's optional on all models. I'm too tall for the sunroof, so its gotta go, but I'd want the X-REAS.
I have had no issues with tracking, starting or any reliability issues.
I have the XREAS, no sunroof. It's around because I didn't special order it or wait for it.