Narrowing my choices down, it's either the Sport V6 or the V8. After reading through the numerous e-mails on the topic, I guess it comes down to personal choice. However, is there any supporting info that suggests one is better (more reliable) then the other?
If I were looking for the best bang for the buck and something that will, hopefully, be trouble free, which would you choose? (I don’t foresee any large/heavy objects being towed)
I have plans to purchase a 4Runner later this fall, in the meantime this gives me plenty of time to decide which setup I want. I've already decided on the Sport Edition, most likely in white or silver (no more dark color vehicles for me).
Now it is down to the engine, and there are plenty of pros & cons for both the V6 & V8. And I’m not sure I can really justify needing a V8, although AWD might be nice to have, but I know I won't be towing anything. So, it almost seems like a good idea to go with the V6, save the $1250 plus the slightly better MPG, 160# less engine weight etc.
Question, when I go to build my 4Runner SE on Toyota's build your own web site, I have no choice but to get the sunroof/JBL-stereo $1825 package. Can you get a SE without the sunroof? I’d like to save the 900 bucks as I can live with out one, plus I've there have been a few people with some sunroof issues.
That is a bit insulting. I don't see why you felt the need to flame me, you feeling a bit inferior with your V6?
I read your first line. I'm not blind either. But if you would have completed your quote it ends in "but the v6 is a bit faster". Did you forget what you wrote? And your title says "V6 is faster"
So which is it Mr ahlzheimer, faster or dead even?
Technically the V6 is faster to 1/4 mile and gaining speed the faster you go. So I can say the V6 is faster in the 1/4 mile.
I also said "Actually they are about dead even" because they are so close. You can't say they are dead even because they aren't.
If it's important that a vehicle is .5 faster/slower than it's worth noting the V6 is a bit faster because it is.
I don't care how fast they are but it is an interesting footnote about the two engines. As for flaming, I'm not. You seem pretty sensitive about the whole thing so maybe you're a bit upset you own the V8 now, I don't know but it doesn't matter and I'm not addressing that anymore.
For jgriff, Although they call the V6 4wd system "4x4" and V8 4wd "AWD"-- they are indeed the same system and usage is identical. You can use the V6's 4wd full-time if you wish.
The only difference is that the V6 gives you the option of switching to RWD.
"Technically the V6 is faster to 1/4 mile and gaining speed the faster you go. So I can say the V6 is faster in the 1/4 mile."
Yeah if you choose to believe THAT and only THAT unregulated, non track test. And even at that those numbers are statistically the same.
"If it's important that a vehicle is .5 faster/slower than it's worth noting the V6 is a bit faster because it is."
You can't keep stuff straight. You stats said it is .004 sec. faster. Hello, that is 4 thousandths of a second. Also other tests have shown the V8 to be faster. But I'm sure you will keep using these "facts" to make yourself feel better.
My original post showed no bias one way or the other. Who's the sensitive one??
And why would I be upset about owning the V8? It is the superior engine.
"I don't know but it doesn't matter and I'm not addressing that anymore."
Ha ha that is funny. You taking your ball home now.
If saving a few bucks on gas is an issue, the V6 is a better bet, with about 2mpg advantage over the V8 (V6 4x4 version) going by EPA estimates.
Assuming that you did purely highway driving, you could travel an additional 46 miles with the V6 powered 4Runner (assming it is in 4x2 mode). Of course, part of the fuel economy advantate of the V6 is due to the V8 being an full time AWD vehicle while the V6 allows you to drive in 2wd (rwd), which is handy.
Nearly every auto related internet site and many auto magazines state that the V8 powered 4Runner accelerates better than the V6, but it isn't much of a difference.
Here is a fair review from New Car Test Drive - "The V8 delivers better performance than the V6, but we didn't notice a huge gain. The difference will be noticed primarily after hooking up a trailer."
Here is another comment from FamilyCar.com - "The net effect of a larger engine producing power at a lower RPM is that real world performance seems more effortless with the engine seemingly loafing while you feel the surge of power pushing you back into the seat. Good enough for a 0 to 60 time of 7.9 seconds. The V6 had plenty of power but, unlike the V8, you can hear the engine working harder to deliver that power."
In general, for most applications, you won't see either 4Runner outpacing the other. If you don't plan to tow (V8 7000lbs vs V6 5000lbs), then you can buy either 4Runner and be happy. Welcome to the club. I would recommend the X-REAS suspension for improved handling though.
I've now logged over 18,000 miles on my beloved '03, V8, AWD 4Runner with X-REAS, etc., and when my vehicle has been in for maintenance I often receive an '03 or '04 V6 4Runner loaner. Thus, I've been able to compare the two power trains, and I offer the following thoughts.
First, I would not give up my V8/5-speed 4Runner for the V6/4-speed version even if you paid off the loan on my truck and gave me a V6 4Runner as a gift.
In my OPINION, the V6/4-speed is a respectable power train; but compared with the V8 I find that:
(1) the V6 produces significantly more noise, e.g., engine whining, panting, and "roaring" sounds;
(2) the V6 produces more vibrational sensations;
(3) Even though the V6 is rated as having more "horsepower" than the V8, it lacks the V8's prodigious TORQUE POWER (which is really the REAL measure of power). The V8's greater torque power allows it to turn the wheels very powerfully at lower RPMs, and with much greater immunity to engine LUGGING at lower RPMs. By contrast, the V6's extra "horsepower" is only available within a narrower *RPM* power envelope, and this seems to require that the V6/4-speed must shift or "step" more rapidly, abruptly, and more noisily through its forward gears, especially during more aggressive throttle commands. At freeway speeds, once you hit 4th gear in the V6/4-speed, you have no higher overdrive gear to call upon if you want to go faster on level ground. Instead, you have only more RPMs to call upon. Or, with the V6/4-speed at freeway speeds (especially at ~70 MPH or above), if you need to quickly sprint ahead of and pass traffic, this powertrain must abruptly SHIFT into lower gears and then make higher RPMs in order to get the job done, since the V6 would otherwise begin to lug. On the other hand, the V8/5-speed powerfully responds to such throttle commands and speed demands in a seemingly effortless and oh-so-quiet fashion; and when you need to aggressively sprint ahead in the V8 and you're already at 80-85 MPH, goosing the V8/5-speed's throttle will impart the sensation of an F-15 kicking into afterburner. When combined with X-REAS, the V8 version is truly a magnificent freeway cruiser. Indeed, one true mark of a powerful engine/drivetrain (as well as a great suspension) is when you happen to look down at the speedometer and find yourself cruising at ballistic speeds, yet the ride and handling is so quiet, smooth and agile that you may easily forget just how fast you're going. In addition, it is my opinion that with the new 4Runner's weighing in at over 4000 lbs. *empty*, the V8's torque power and wider power envelope may also be seen as a safety feature that better allows the vehicle to "stay out of its own way" in a pinch.
(4) The limitations of the V6's lower torque power also become rather evident when the vehicle is driving over mountainous or hilly roads, especially at freeway speeds, and especially when heavily loaded with passengers and/or cargo. In this situation, the V6/4-speed will tend to frequently and rather annoyingly shift in and out of 4th gear, while the RPMs swing wildly along. By contrast, the V8/5-speed tends to just breeze along as if it was out for a stroll in these situations. Furthermore, if the V8/5-speed encounters more challenging upgrades and/or loads, the driver can simply deselect OVERDRIVE (5th gear), after which the V8's torque power will tend to sit happily in 4th gear, since it has so much more torque to play with.
Now, before those of you who own and love the V6/4-speed start flaming me, let me say that my advice to anyone contemplating this V6 vs. V8 issue would do well to carefully and realistically assess a number of factors, including their budget, driving habits, average expected cargo weight, towing considerations, etc. Despite my spirited and good natured argument in favor of the V8/5-speed, it is clear that for a great many 4Runner owners, the V6 fits their needs quite well, and nothing more need be said.
Dang-it kheintz1 you give sooo many good reasons to just stick with a most excellent V8, many of the reasons that are very evident in other SUV that have both V6 & V8 options. I do prefer 5speed to 4speed. I'm sure it really helps the comparison by having a lot of drive time with both.
Gas mileage difference is not a big issue for me, I just don't want to be force to pay for a lot of whistle & bells ($3-5k extra) that I really don't need or want ie. sunroof. Given a choice I would prefer the $1250 V8 option over the $900 sunroof. Give me the SE [in the right color] with a V8, and I could be a happy-camper.
I have test driven the 4Runner enough, to know that I do like the X-REAS setup, makes the handling more sport car like.
About the only option that I didn't want on my 03 4Runner V8 Limited is the moonroof. Unfortunately, there was no way to delete it. I would gladly exchange it for an indash CD-Changer with NAV. Currently, you can only have NAV or the indash CD Changer - not both.
*Give me the SE [in the right color] with a V8, and I could be a happy-camper.*
I would give up the sun roof , which is inside the roof rack area, the running boards and cargo system. on my 03 sport and it would be a between vehicle. I have the V-8. The V-6 wasn't available when I bought mine in Dec 03. The low end torque of the V-8 may better off road based on my previous experience with old CJ-5 jeeps I owned which had low end torque in their 144 CU In (about 2.2 liter) Inline 4cylinder engines.
Well, I won’t go into a full fledge debate about the merits of the V8 vis-à-vis the V6. I can only talk about my experience with the V6 4Runner and contrast my reasons for choosing it over the V8. I will say my driving experience does not exactly agree with your assessment of it, but then I have more experience with the V6 than you, as you do with the V8. The V8 has an outstanding reputation and I’ll take, yours and everyone else who rave about it, word for it. My V6 4Runner does everything I want and expect it to do, it even exceeds my needs. I didn’t buy it to drag race with, nor to drive 100 mph+ on the highway, although an informal road test from one of the other forums contirms that they are almost dead even in the acceleration category. I will need to tow, but up to a 5000 lbs. capacity is all I need, and to be able to haul bulky large items. The V6- 4 speed transmission is an excellent combination and performs flawlessly. I especially like the better gas mileage and that it is lighter than the V8 powered model, less expensive than the V8, and has the ability to ride in RWD (again for better gas mileage and less unnecessary drive-train wear and tear) and then have the ability to use a Full Time 4WD system when needed at any time or road condition, just as in the V8.
The sunroof was mandatory because my wife wanted it <grin>. No rattle in it so far. I have the two-tier cargo area; The JBL sound system or NAV was not a consideration for me. I like the roof rack, and running boards (how else will women in skirts get up into it???<big grin>). I have no need for a bigger engine and more torque; the V6 4Runner has more than enough power and torque for me. I’d buy the V6 4Runner again tomorrow, and I highly recommend it to anyone whose needs parallel mine. You won’t be sorry with the V6.
I also own a 1988 V6 4Runner and this new one is like night and day compared to it. It literally takes off like a rocket, and I have to watch my speed because I tend to go to fast with it. It’s great riding, has terrific handling, and is well built, an all around quality vehicle.
I'm glad you are happy with your V6 That is the only thing that matters, isn't it?
I'm not so concerned with the additional wear and tear with the V8 as it probably is negligible. Of course, having more mechanicals in constant motion does cause more wear, but considering how rock solid Toyota's are overall, I could use a little more 'maintenance' to keep me on my toes :-)
Th double decker cargo option comes in handy, but, honestly, I usually leave it lowered. I wish that it were adjustable, so that an ice chest could be placed under the cargo deck. I would like it even better if it could be removed easily without leaving any exposed areas.
No one should drag race EITHER V8 or V6 4Runner or exceed the speed limit, no matter how tempting
i bought a 1996 SR5 V6 4runner a couple months ago. my gas mileage is about 15 city. last owner said he changed the plugs 2 years ago. shouldn't i be getting better mileage?
My 4Runner is the first vehicle I've owned with a power moonroof, and while I didn't particularly want this feature when I bought the truck, I've become rather fond of it in certain situations.
For example, when leisurely driving around town or in the countryside on cool or balmy days or evenings, tilting open the moonroof provides for a gentle and delightfully refreshing circulation of fragrant fresh-air in the cabin.
And consider this: Ever since automotive designers long ago did away with those wonderful triangular shaped, front side-window air vents (remember those?) found on older vehicles, there are very limited options left for obtaining some "quiet" fresh-air flow in the cabin at moderate driving speeds. Opening the front windows slightly will admit some air, but this typically results in a large amount of wind noise, turbulence, and air drag. Open the windows a bit more, and it only gets worse.
On the other hand, I submit that when a well engineered, power moonroof such as the 4Runner's is tilted open, it actually functions very much like the triangular side-window vents of old, because:
(1) When in the open, TILTED position, the leading edge of moonroof glass serves as a deflective airfoil rather than as an air SCOOP. Meanwhile, the aft edge of the moonroof's opening admits a constant but very gentle amount of air INTO the cabin; while also creating a constant, gentle vacuum effect that tends to continuously draw OUT a certain amount of air from the cabin as well. (Smokers especially will know exactly what I'm describing here). Thus, tilting open the moonroof (while all other windows are closed) can result in very pleasant open-air ventilation for driver and passengers alike, with almost no annoying air currents.
(2) When in the open, tilted position, it is my opinion that the 4Runner's moonroof actually generates a very modest amount of wind noise. Indeed, even at modest freeway speeds, there are many times when I enjoy having the moonroof tilted open. In addition, I tend to be able to better hear the sound of the engine and the Michelin Cross Terrains when the moonroof is tilted open, and these sounds can be very pleasing.
(3) Even when the moonroof's glass must be fully closed and sealed shut, I have come to appreciate the many occasions (day or night!) in which simply opening the moonroof's inner cover will result in visual elements that can be very, very pleasing. Examples here would include spectacular starry nights as well as spectacular sunsets and sunrises; deep blue skies; heavy snow falls; and a heightened visual effect when driving along tree lined country roads at the peak of autumn colors. Simply uncovering the sealed moonroof will increase the sense of "openness" for driver and passengers alike.
Of course, there are also times when the view from the moonroof should be occluded, such as when the sun is at angles where it would be annoying when shining through the roof. Also, even when the moonroof is sealed shut, opening the inner cover will definitely result in hearing more wind noise from the moonroof's structure.
In summary, I've come to appreciate the 4Runner's extremely well designed moonroof, and while moonrooves of old may have tended to leak water eventually, I doubt this is much of a concern with the likes of the 4Runner, unless we happen to forget to close it, and that's definitely a liability, but one we can prevent.
I didn't mean to imply that I didn't like the MoonRoof. I do find it to be rattle free, leak free, well designed, and perform as expected. I do miss the "triangular vent windows" though. I would rather have a NAV system with a in-dash CD Changer instead of the moonroof, which I rarely use. I have been driving with the rear cargo window open more recently (a Toyota no-no). Looking through the moonroof while it is closed is quite pleasing when driving through NYC. I miss the days when autos could be purchased "a la carte."
As for the problem of forgetting to close the mooroof when leaving the vehicle, does anyone know of any aftermarket company that sells an attachment that immediately closes the moonroof upon removal of the ignition key (or some other sort of system)?
I have recently installed window visors to my windows. I do like them since it affords me the ability to drive with the windows partly ajar while driving in the rain and allowing ventilation while the vehicle is parked. Unfortunately, it leads to a bit more wind noise, but this isn't too bothersome.
I have often wished that Toyota would have included a warning sensor for the moonroof (as it does for the doors and windows) which would cause the truck to repeatedly beep when the keyfob "lock" button is pressed but the moonroof is open. For those who either have the moonroof or are contemplating this option, a word of redundant advice: Try not to leave the moonroof glass open (no matter how slight) and then absent-mindedly close off the moonroof opening with just the inner cover! I've yet to make this mistake, but I've come close. How? Well, when you're out tooling around with the moonroof tilted open, if the sun suddenly hits down from above, your first instinct may be to just reach up and slide the inner cover of the moonroof back in place to block the sun. But, the roof is still open! When you park the vehicle, the easiest way to detect this error (if you're paying attention) is to become aware of the cabin sounding like somewhere, a window seems to be open! Like I've said, I've nearly made this error, so I've also developed the habit of briefly inspecting the moonroof before I leave the truck parked outside.
I've been reading and drooling...reading and drooling...and today, I took an '04 V6 LTD out for a drive. Zoom. I can't wait to try the V8 Sport tomorrow. Titanium. If wifey likes it, I'll get it. I'm trading in a piece of crap '00 Jeep Grand Cherokee LTD on it.
Thanks for everyone's posts and reviews. I haven't felt this confident about a vehicle purchase since we bought an '04 Sienna XLE LTD six months ago
aikinintenn; I've got a 99 SR5 V6 and recently had the check engine light come on. Took it to the local Toyota dealer and after some diagnostics they changed the intake air meter assembly and did a fuel injection system service. Cost was around $395. Bottom line: My mileage went from 16 mpg to 23 mpg. The shop felt it was running too rich. Btw, I've got about 80K on the vehicle
Yes, I just bought a 2004 Limited 4WD Full Time ( Not Mufti-mode .) I have experienced the same problem. I have had it in two times to different dealers. The same thing both times, a road test and the Tech says he does not see a problem. Of course it did not happen when he drove it. Since mine is the V8 with the 5-Speed Automatic and yours a V6 with a 4-Speed Automatic, the only things common to both are the Center Differential and the Computer. What do you think. 2004Help
Comparisons between V6/V8 engines can be debated endlessly, but I will say that just about everyone I know who has ever bought an SUV type vehicle with a V6 has eventually regretted that they did not opt for the V8. I always seem to run across a lot of posts on different boards from people who wished they had gone for the V8. Many of these people end up spending a lot of time and money trying to "mod" their V6 engines in order to gain a few more HP, which in most cases is a waste of time.
kheintz1 made some important observations, even if one has no plans to tow you will at times find yourself with a full load of passengers and perhaps some luggage. Up and over a few mountain passes or large hills and you will wish you had indeed selected the V8.
I'd say go with an Oldsmobile Intrigue. Mine has been both rugged and reliable, plus that shortstar dual overhead cam V6 is awesome, and you don't have to worry about the transmission failling like it would in an Acura. htwired in Milwaukee still loving his Intrigue!
htwire: you dog you, excuse me while I pull the knives out <grinning>. You caught me, yep been thinking about moving back to one of the most reliable car manufacturer that I’ve had the pleasure of owning (’95 Camry coupe, should have held on to that one, oh-well). The Mazda-6 has been good, but that is really the wife’s car.
I’m looking for something with some versatility, and still somewhat sporty. I did check out the General's lines; Tahoes/Yukon, Envoy/TB, GM is still lagging, but there are a ton of Tahoes & Yukons on the road in my neck of the woods.
"Question, when I go to build my 4Runner SE on Toyota's build your own web site, I have no choice but to get the sunroof/JBL-stereo $1825 package. Can you get a SE without the sunroof? I’d like to save the 900 bucks as I can live with out one, plus I've there have been a few people with some sunroof issues. "
I personally hate moonroofs and think they are a waste of money. So when I was thinking about dropping 27k on a vehicle I made sure I got what I wanted. I personally did a build order on my 4runner and got Exactly what I wanted. You can search this board for my posts about my great experience with the build order process.
So you know, I also was motivated to do a build order because it was initially really hard to find 4wd sport 4runners in california. The only ones you could find had every option, which I didn't want.
I love moonroofs, and in fact I would not buy a vehicle without one. The main reason I use mine for is to "vent" out the hot air in the summer time when parking. Easier and more convenient than cracking the side windows all the time.
I live in central Ohio and have been trying to find a Limited with v6 engine and 3rd row seats without any success. I have tried local dealers and some on-line dealers who have searched several surrounding states with no success. They have located a few SR5s but no Limiteds. It appears that Toyota is not turning out many vehicles with this configuration. Is anyone else having this experience? Does anyone know of any reason that Toyota is not producing this configuration in sufficient volume?
I agree with you. I recently purchased a V8 Limited. It is a very nice ride with the XREAS suspension system and all that stuff. It runs smooth as melted butter. It almost feels like a car handling, but it is very much all truck when called upon. I try not to drive hard like you were talking about. I have never driven any of my vehicles hard. I had a 1990 Camry that I just got rid of that still had the original shocks. But I sure do enjoy this 4Runner and don't want to damage anything on it unneccessarily.
Actually, I'm a fairly conservative driver, especially around town. But, I drive a great deal of freeway miles; and on open, uncongested roads I've been known to set the cruise at 85 mph or so. My original point was simply comparing the V8's refined and smooth muscle to the V6 under certain conditions where torque power seems to trump horsepower.
On the other hand, I avoid habits such as jackrabbit starts, speed shifting, hard braking, forceful oversteering, flying over rough roads, etc. I believe that the frequent practice of such habits and maneuvers will likely shorten the life of tires, brakes, suspension components, drivetrain, powertrain, etc.
Even though I now use Quaker State's full synthetic oil, on cold start-ups I still allow my truck's engine to idle for a few minutes before putting it in gear.
I would also mention that even if one always drives very conservatively, it is the accumulated amount of short distance, "stop-and-go", or "around town" miles that are often the hardest on most any vehicle, especially for the engine. I've heard that one of several reasons for this is due to the engine oil not getting hot enough (and staying at that temp. long enough) for the suspended water molecules and other volatile contaminants (byproducts of combustion, etc.) to "boil off" and become more easily removed when a vehicle is subjected to mainly stop-and-go driving miles. Indeed, many engine oil manufacturers and car manufacturers alike consider a preponderance of "stop-and-go" miles to fall under the "extreme duty" category; and many recommend more frequent oil change intervals in this situation, compared with vehicles that spend most of their time seeing "freeway" or "highway" miles.
Assuming one keeps their vehicle well maintained and serviced, it is good for the engine, exhaust system, drivetrain, etc., to get regular and extended workouts at sustained higher speeds over wide-open freeways and highways.
If you really need a 3rd row seat, I strongly suggest you get a different truck. There just isn't enough room back there to make the 3rd row seat useable. Get a Sequoia instead if you need a 3rd row.
hmmmmmmmmm..........i'm getting around 18 mpg. the guy i bought it from had a K&N air filter and an air tornado thing that suppose to help mileage. my runner has 194,000 miles. i was thinking about taking it to a local dealer for a tune-up and diag.
Per the "tornado thing", get that in the garbage asap, it is totally worthless. As for the K&N it's doubtful that any mileage increase would be gained. Most people that install them it seems are disappointed and in fact get worse mileage (due in part to the temptation of wanting to "step on it" a lot).
If you do a search on the K&N filters through some of the message boards out there you'll find an awful lot of people who agree that they are a total waste of money as far as performance and increased mileage goes.
I am most likely going to buy a 4-Runner in the next few weeks (presently own a 1998 Ford Explorer Sport with 157,000 miles) and would like the opinion of anyone who has some knowledge concerning the issue of buying the option of the side and curtain airbags. How important are they to vehicle safety?
If you want the extra safety get them, if your looking for the added insurance deduction, forget it. My insurance company, Geico, did not give me any extra credit for the side air bags.
Even though I did not get them from what I have read they seem like a very worthy item for safety. They can make a significant difference in the severity of injuries on some vehicles. Go to the NHSTA site or the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety.
I am in the market to purchase 2004 4Runner. I have been pre-approved for $40K and I received an offer for the car for $28,500 including fees. Does anyone have a suggestion on the down payment? My refinance sucked up most of my available cash and my trade in isn't worth much.
The 4-Runner did get a 5 star in side impact, w/out the SAB's. I'm sort-of rationalizing because I'm looking to get a stock one tomorrow, and the order price is too much -- even at invoice. However, based on recent tests, it appears that SAB's are extremely important in passenger cars.
BTW -- Anyone have an opinion on tires? There seem to be three delivered varieties: Brigestone, Dunlop, and Michelin's. I've had terrible rides with the former 2, and the Michelin's seem consistently great, as well as rating well on the NHTSA site. Unfortunately there delivered sort-of randomly, so you don't really have a choice.
Thanks for the great advice from those members that responded to my question regarding side and curtain airbags. It seems to be an option that I should choose to purchase on the 4-Runner Sport Edition.
Are you sure that you can get the side curtain airbag on a 4runner from dealer stock? In California, this option is only available on the top of the line limited model. You would have to special order it on a Sport or SR5 model here. I won't buy another vehicle without this option. If Toyota starts equiping the SR5 model with side curtain airbags for 2005, I will purchase one. If they don't, I will look at a different make of automobile.
If the tires you like are not on the truck you want have them swapped out with another one on the lot. Many people have done this so the dealer should not have a problem doing that for you.
Side airbags that deploy from the seats protect your torso, but do not protect your head. The side curtain airbags protect your head from side impacts.
I have seen a local dealer has two vehicles 2003 Landrover Discovery II S and 2003 4 Runner V8 sport in stock. they are offered at at similar prices and have similar mileage. I have hard time to decide to pick which one. Anyone has opinions on those vehicles and offer suggenstions.
If it's a British car avoid it. Ford has made great strides on the quality issues of both Land Rover and Jacquar, but they still have their share of problems. It amazes me that Land Rover retains its world dominance for off road vehicles considering its mechanical problems.
Another one to avoid is the Hummer, a GM nightmare. Stick with the Toyota, you can't go wrong, better resale value too.
I have '02 Avalon. It is a great car for last two years, never give me any problem. Before that, I had a chevy malibu and a camry, there was day and night difference. The malibu gave me so many troubles and I swear I will touch any GM products. I am convinced to go Toyota. I work for a company supply parts to car companies, Toyota has much higher demand on quality and precisions.
Comments
Narrowing my choices down, it's either the Sport V6 or the V8. After reading through the numerous e-mails on the topic, I guess it comes down to personal choice. However, is there any supporting info that suggests one is better (more reliable) then the other?
If I were looking for the best bang for the buck and something that will, hopefully, be trouble free, which would you choose? (I don’t foresee any large/heavy objects being towed)
Now it is down to the engine, and there are plenty of pros & cons for both the V6 & V8. And I’m not sure I can really justify needing a V8, although AWD might be nice to have, but I know I won't be towing anything. So, it almost seems like a good idea to go with the V6, save the $1250 plus the slightly better MPG, 160# less engine weight etc.
Question, when I go to build my 4Runner SE on Toyota's build your own web site, I have no choice but to get the sunroof/JBL-stereo $1825 package. Can you get a SE without the sunroof? I’d like to save the 900 bucks as I can live with out one, plus I've there have been a few people with some sunroof issues.
I read your first line. I'm not blind either. But if you would have completed your quote it ends in "but the v6 is a bit faster". Did you forget what you wrote? And your title says "V6 is faster"
So which is it Mr ahlzheimer, faster or dead even?
I also said "Actually they are about dead even"
because they are so close. You can't say they are dead even because they aren't.
If it's important that a vehicle is .5 faster/slower than it's worth noting the V6 is a bit faster because it is.
I don't care how fast they are but it is an interesting footnote about the two engines. As for flaming, I'm not. You seem pretty sensitive about the whole thing so maybe you're a bit upset you own the V8 now, I don't know but it doesn't matter and I'm not addressing that anymore.
For jgriff,
Although they call the V6 4wd system "4x4" and V8 4wd "AWD"-- they are indeed the same system and usage is identical. You can use the V6's 4wd full-time if you wish.
The only difference is that the V6 gives you the option of switching to RWD.
Yeah if you choose to believe THAT and only THAT unregulated, non track test. And even at that those numbers are statistically the same.
"If it's important that a vehicle is .5 faster/slower than it's worth noting the V6 is a bit faster because it is."
You can't keep stuff straight. You stats said it is .004 sec. faster. Hello, that is 4 thousandths of a second. Also other tests have shown the V8 to be faster. But I'm sure you will keep using these "facts" to make yourself feel better.
My original post showed no bias one way or the other. Who's the sensitive one??
And why would I be upset about owning the V8? It is the superior engine.
"I don't know but it doesn't matter and I'm not addressing that anymore."
Ha ha that is funny. You taking your ball home now.
Assuming that you did purely highway driving, you could travel an additional 46 miles with the V6 powered 4Runner (assming it is in 4x2 mode). Of course, part of the fuel economy advantate of the V6 is due to the V8 being an full time AWD vehicle while the V6 allows you to drive in 2wd (rwd), which is handy.
Nearly every auto related internet site and many auto magazines state that the V8 powered 4Runner accelerates better than the V6, but it isn't much of a difference.
Here is a fair review from New Car Test Drive - "The V8 delivers better performance than the V6, but we didn't notice a huge gain. The difference will be noticed primarily after hooking up a trailer."
Here is another comment from FamilyCar.com - "The net effect of a larger engine producing power at a lower RPM is that real world performance seems more effortless with the engine seemingly loafing while you feel the surge of power pushing you back into the seat. Good enough for a 0 to 60 time of 7.9 seconds. The V6 had plenty of power but, unlike the V8, you can hear the engine working harder to deliver that power."
In general, for most applications, you won't see either 4Runner outpacing the other. If you don't plan to tow (V8 7000lbs vs V6 5000lbs), then you can buy either 4Runner and be happy. Welcome to the club. I would recommend the X-REAS suspension for improved handling though.
First, I would not give up my V8/5-speed 4Runner for the V6/4-speed version even if you paid off the loan on my truck and gave me a V6 4Runner as a gift.
In my OPINION, the V6/4-speed is a respectable power train; but compared with the V8 I find that:
(1) the V6 produces significantly more noise, e.g., engine whining, panting, and "roaring" sounds;
(2) the V6 produces more vibrational sensations;
(3) Even though the V6 is rated as having more "horsepower" than the V8, it lacks the V8's prodigious TORQUE POWER (which is really the REAL measure of power). The V8's greater torque power allows it to turn the wheels very powerfully at lower RPMs, and with much greater immunity to engine LUGGING at lower RPMs. By contrast, the V6's extra "horsepower" is only available within a narrower *RPM* power envelope, and this seems to require that the V6/4-speed must shift or "step" more rapidly, abruptly, and more noisily through its forward gears, especially during more aggressive throttle commands. At freeway speeds, once you hit 4th gear in the V6/4-speed, you have no higher overdrive gear to call upon if you want to go faster on level ground. Instead, you have only more RPMs to call upon. Or, with the V6/4-speed at freeway speeds (especially at ~70 MPH or above), if you need to quickly sprint ahead of and pass traffic, this powertrain must abruptly SHIFT into lower gears and then make higher RPMs in order to get the job done, since the V6 would otherwise begin to lug. On the other hand, the V8/5-speed powerfully responds to such throttle commands and speed demands in a seemingly effortless and oh-so-quiet fashion; and when you need to aggressively sprint ahead in the V8 and you're already at 80-85 MPH, goosing the V8/5-speed's throttle will impart the sensation of an F-15 kicking into afterburner. When combined with X-REAS, the V8 version is truly a magnificent freeway cruiser. Indeed, one true mark of a powerful engine/drivetrain (as well as a great suspension) is when you happen to look down at the speedometer and find yourself cruising at ballistic speeds, yet the ride and handling is so quiet, smooth and agile that you may easily forget just how fast you're going. In addition, it is my opinion that with the new 4Runner's weighing in at over 4000 lbs. *empty*, the V8's torque power and wider power envelope may also be seen as a safety feature that better allows the vehicle to "stay out of its own way" in a pinch.
(4) The limitations of the V6's lower torque power also become rather evident when the vehicle is driving over mountainous or hilly roads, especially at freeway speeds, and especially when heavily loaded with passengers and/or cargo. In this situation, the V6/4-speed will tend to frequently and rather annoyingly shift in and out of 4th gear, while the RPMs swing wildly along. By contrast, the V8/5-speed tends to just breeze along as if it was out for a stroll in these situations. Furthermore, if the V8/5-speed encounters more challenging upgrades and/or loads, the driver can simply deselect OVERDRIVE (5th gear), after which the V8's torque power will tend to sit happily in 4th gear, since it has so much more torque to play with.
Now, before those of you who own and love the V6/4-speed start flaming me, let me say that my advice to anyone contemplating this V6 vs. V8 issue would do well to carefully and realistically assess a number of factors, including their budget, driving habits, average expected cargo weight, towing considerations, etc. Despite my spirited and good natured argument in favor of the V8/5-speed, it is clear that for a great many 4Runner owners, the V6 fits their needs quite well, and nothing more need be said.
Gas mileage difference is not a big issue for me, I just don't want to be force to pay for a lot of whistle & bells ($3-5k extra) that I really don't need or want ie. sunroof. Given a choice I would prefer the $1250 V8 option over the $900 sunroof. Give me the SE [in the right color] with a V8, and I could be a happy-camper.
I have test driven the 4Runner enough, to know that I do like the X-REAS setup, makes the handling more sport car like.
*Give me the SE [in the right color] with a V8, and I could be a happy-camper.*
Correction, you WILL be a happy camper
I have the V-8. The V-6 wasn't available when I bought mine in Dec 03. The low end torque of the V-8 may better off road based on my previous experience with old CJ-5 jeeps I owned which had low end torque in their 144 CU In (about 2.2 liter) Inline 4cylinder engines.
The sunroof was mandatory because my wife wanted it <grin>. No rattle in it so far. I have the two-tier cargo area; The JBL sound system or NAV was not a consideration for me. I like the roof rack, and running boards (how else will women in skirts get up into it???<big grin>). I have no need for a bigger engine and more torque; the V6 4Runner has more than enough power and torque for me. I’d buy the V6 4Runner again tomorrow, and I highly recommend it to anyone whose needs parallel mine. You won’t be sorry with the V6.
I also own a 1988 V6 4Runner and this new one is like night and day compared to it. It literally takes off like a rocket, and I have to watch my speed because I tend to go to fast with it. It’s great riding, has terrific handling, and is well built, an all around quality vehicle.
I'm not so concerned with the additional wear and tear with the V8 as it probably is negligible. Of course, having more mechanicals in constant motion does cause more wear, but considering how rock solid Toyota's are overall, I could use a little more 'maintenance' to keep me on my toes :-)
Th double decker cargo option comes in handy, but, honestly, I usually leave it lowered. I wish that it were adjustable, so that an ice chest could be placed under the cargo deck. I would like it even better if it could be removed easily without leaving any exposed areas.
No one should drag race EITHER V8 or V6 4Runner or exceed the speed limit, no matter how tempting
For example, when leisurely driving around town or in the countryside on cool or balmy days or evenings, tilting open the moonroof provides for a gentle and delightfully refreshing circulation of fragrant fresh-air in the cabin.
And consider this: Ever since automotive designers long ago did away with those wonderful triangular shaped, front side-window air vents (remember those?) found on older vehicles, there are very limited options left for obtaining some "quiet" fresh-air flow in the cabin at moderate driving speeds. Opening the front windows slightly will admit some air, but this typically results in a large amount of wind noise, turbulence, and air drag. Open the windows a bit more, and it only gets worse.
On the other hand, I submit that when a well engineered, power moonroof such as the 4Runner's is tilted open, it actually functions very much like the triangular side-window vents of old, because:
(1) When in the open, TILTED position, the leading edge of moonroof glass serves as a deflective airfoil rather than as an air SCOOP. Meanwhile, the aft edge of the moonroof's opening admits a constant but very gentle amount of air INTO the cabin; while also creating a constant, gentle vacuum effect that tends to continuously draw OUT a certain amount of air from the cabin as well. (Smokers especially will know exactly what I'm describing here). Thus, tilting open the moonroof (while all other windows are closed) can result in very pleasant open-air ventilation for driver and passengers alike, with almost no annoying air currents.
(2) When in the open, tilted position, it is my opinion that the 4Runner's moonroof actually generates a very modest amount of wind noise. Indeed, even at modest freeway speeds, there are many times when I enjoy having the moonroof tilted open. In addition, I tend to be able to better hear the sound of the engine and the Michelin Cross Terrains when the moonroof is tilted open, and these sounds can be very pleasing.
(3) Even when the moonroof's glass must be fully closed and sealed shut, I have come to appreciate the many occasions (day or night!) in which simply opening the moonroof's inner cover will result in visual elements that can be very, very pleasing. Examples here would include spectacular starry nights as well as spectacular sunsets and sunrises; deep blue skies; heavy snow falls; and a heightened visual effect when driving along tree lined country roads at the peak of autumn colors. Simply uncovering the sealed moonroof will increase the sense of "openness" for driver and passengers alike.
Of course, there are also times when the view from the moonroof should be occluded, such as when the sun is at angles where it would be annoying when shining through the roof. Also, even when the moonroof is sealed shut, opening the inner cover will definitely result in hearing more wind noise from the moonroof's structure.
In summary, I've come to appreciate the 4Runner's extremely well designed moonroof, and while moonrooves of old may have tended to leak water eventually, I doubt this is much of a concern with the likes of the 4Runner, unless we happen to forget to close it, and that's definitely a liability, but one we can prevent.
As for the problem of forgetting to close the mooroof when leaving the vehicle, does anyone know of any aftermarket company that sells an attachment that immediately closes the moonroof upon removal of the ignition key (or some other sort of system)?
I have recently installed window visors to my windows. I do like them since it affords me the ability to drive with the windows partly ajar while driving in the rain and allowing ventilation while the vehicle is parked. Unfortunately, it leads to a bit more wind noise, but this isn't too bothersome.
Thanks for everyone's posts and reviews. I haven't felt this confident about a vehicle purchase since we bought an '04 Sienna XLE LTD six months ago
We'll be a 100% Toy family soon.
kheintz1 made some important observations, even if one has no plans to tow you will at times find yourself with a full load of passengers and perhaps some luggage. Up and over a few mountain passes or large hills and you will wish you had indeed selected the V8.
I’m looking for something with some versatility, and still somewhat sporty. I did check out the General's lines; Tahoes/Yukon, Envoy/TB, GM is still lagging, but there are a ton of Tahoes & Yukons on the road in my neck of the woods.
I personally hate moonroofs and think they are a waste of money. So when I was thinking about dropping 27k on a vehicle I made sure I got what I wanted. I personally did a build order on my 4runner and got Exactly what I wanted. You can search this board for my posts about my great experience with the build order process.
So you know, I also was motivated to do a build order because it was initially really hard to find 4wd sport 4runners in california. The only ones you could find had every option, which I didn't want.
Hope that helped.
-Jared
On the other hand, I avoid habits such as jackrabbit starts, speed shifting, hard braking, forceful oversteering, flying over rough roads, etc. I believe that the frequent practice of such habits and maneuvers will likely shorten the life of tires, brakes, suspension components, drivetrain, powertrain, etc.
Even though I now use Quaker State's full synthetic oil, on cold start-ups I still allow my truck's engine to idle for a few minutes before putting it in gear.
I would also mention that even if one always drives very conservatively, it is the accumulated amount of short distance, "stop-and-go", or "around town" miles that are often the hardest on most any vehicle, especially for the engine. I've heard that one of several reasons for this is due to the engine oil not getting hot enough (and staying at that temp. long enough) for the suspended water molecules and other volatile contaminants (byproducts of combustion, etc.) to "boil off" and become more easily removed when a vehicle is subjected to mainly stop-and-go driving miles. Indeed, many engine oil manufacturers and car manufacturers alike consider a preponderance of "stop-and-go" miles to fall under the "extreme duty" category; and many recommend more frequent oil change intervals in this situation, compared with vehicles that spend most of their time seeing "freeway" or "highway" miles.
Assuming one keeps their vehicle well maintained and serviced, it is good for the engine, exhaust system, drivetrain, etc., to get regular and extended workouts at sustained higher speeds over wide-open freeways and highways.
thanks
If you do a search on the K&N filters through some of the message boards out there you'll find an awful lot of people who agree that they are a total waste of money as far as performance and increased mileage goes.
How important are they to vehicle safety?
Thanks so much.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ratings.htm
BTW -- Anyone have an opinion on tires? There seem to be three delivered varieties: Brigestone, Dunlop, and Michelin's. I've had terrible rides with the former 2, and the Michelin's seem consistently great, as well as rating well on the NHTSA site. Unfortunately there delivered sort-of randomly, so you don't really have a choice.
Side airbags that deploy from the seats protect your torso, but do not protect your head. The side curtain airbags protect your head from side impacts.
I don't know, but something would lead me to think that the 4Runner might be the better option.
We had a 1973 Plymouth Station Wagon. Our family has purchased 12 cars since then, none from Chry-Ply.
Another one to avoid is the Hummer, a GM nightmare. Stick with the Toyota, you can't go wrong, better resale value too.
I am considering purchasing a 4-Runner Sport with a V-8.
What are the opinions of the group with regard to a V-6 vs. a V-8?