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Toyota 4Runner



  • the compound used by BFG (owned by Michelin) is softer than those used by other manufacturers on their A-T tires. That's why they have a softer road feel and are relatively quiet, compared to other all-terrains. It's probably also why the warranty coverage isn't as good as other companies.

    And I agree with what you're saying about cargo volume, I was just remembering an article I had read a few years ago after Cliffy pointed out his theory. If your measurements are right on with the Toyota specs, then it is upsetting that the new 4Runner is lacking in almost 5 cubic feet with the seats either up or down! I agree that with the seats up, the reason is increased 2nd row passenger room, but I'm just as puzzled as Cliffy as to why it's still smaller with the seats folded. Maybe they sit a bit higher for more comfort, and therefor so does the load floor, which would eat up a bit of space. And if you look at the side shots, the roof line looks like it slopes down slightly in the rear, which would also contribute slightly to less volume.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    The only thing that could account for it, other than new measurement style is a MUCH longer hood and engine compartment. That certainly is possible. More likely is that the old one was measured with the rear seat removed. I don't mean folded, I mean unbolted. Don't laugh, that is what they did with the Sequoia.
  • peter78peter78 Posts: 284
    Lets give credit where credit is due. The 3rd generation 4Runner had a ton of cargo space for the size.

    Sure the new 4Runner is down, more like the size of other mid size SUV's. The Chevy Trailblazer cargo space is 41 cubic feet, so if you compare the 2003 4Runner to the competition it does well. Just don't compare it the 2002 4Runner.
  • With RX300 and Highlander, the suspension is all-independent. All you have to do is change the spring size (or even shock size), and you can change ground clearance.

    This is NOT so with a solid axle. Spring size/shock size can ONLY change approach/departure angles (as in LX470 vs. Land Cruiser), NOT ground clearance (thus, both are the same). If you say that the 4Runner is more "off-road-oriented", then why does it have a PEDAL parking brake (usually not a good thing for pure off-roaders), while GX470 has a true lever??? In addition, why does the 4Runner have a DIAL for it's 4wd system (which again, is not for pure off-roaders because it is electronic and could fail), while GX470 has a true transfer case lever???

    Ok, i will eat my shoes one day, but i will bet that the 4Runner and GX share the same frame and suspension bits. Why wouldn't they???!!! Why would Toyota spend that much money to create literally TWO platform (change in suspension bits may need a change in frame configuration too)??!!
  • Check Sequoia's "facts sheets". What does it exactly say in regard to cargo space??? My 4Runner fact sheets states very clearly that 79.8 cu ft is with seats folded (not removed).

    Just a thought.
  • True, true. I'm hoping the new cargo space is at least accommodating to certain things like a dog crate.

    Ours fits perfectly into the back of my Jimmy, and even better in the current 4Runner, but when they re-designed my truck into the Envoy the cargo space changed. Even though it has slightly more cargo space, especially with the seats down, the rear area is actually only an inch longer than mine, while being about 4 inches wider. The problem with the space though, is where the angle of the liftgate cuts in at the top when it's closed. I wouldn't be able to get our dog crate in the back because of the dramatic change in that angle.

    I'm hoping the rear space is at least long enough to be practical in that regard, which it looks to be, and the liftgate is more straight than the Envoy/Trailblazer.
  • Man, you are right on about the suspension stuff! I am equally puzzled about these discrepancies in ground clearance and the strange choices of elements used in the 4Runner and GX...

    Do you think it has something to do with the GX being more identical to the Prado, and therefore carrying over more of those components for cost saving?
  • Figured as much - any Toyota made in Japan is impossible to "custom" out on the racks, spoiler, etc. - darn.

    Well, at least I know of one dealership in Michigan that has a Limited without the spoiler! ;> [By the way, what is up what Toyota and their stupid Build-your-own Vehicle feature . . . what a joke from the marketing department.] Anyway, can't believe the CAT region allotment includes all that silver and spoilers . . . every darn one. Oh well . .

    Criused to Alexandria, VA at lunch today (for those in CAT) and saw plenty of beautiful 2002s for cheap - a black sport was just getting it's plastic overlays peeled off! God, that 3rd gen was perfect . . . keep the height, just a little wider, and a few more HP, that's all we wanted. Anyway, they claim '02s still rolling in for a while longer and that the allotments mentioned on this board were full of doo-doo, When I told them about Corey's pics and University of Toyota materials already being in our hands (actually emailed them the links!) they reacted very negatively to the reliability of the info. on the Net and where it was from. These dealers. God, I am not looking forward to the actual purchase . . . still hate that part of dealing with a negotation where you know more about the product you want then them.

    Hey . . . pact: first to get an '03 in the CAT region out here, tell us where you went, the name of who you dealt with, and the price paid. We can all get fair prices if we share same and agree to stay away from MSRP+ gouging. I know I will if I do, either '02 or '03 . . . or that H2 . . .
  • Hey you got my vote. I just saw the Kia Sorento yesterday and the dealer wanted $24K (MSRP) for the vehicle plus another $3K for dealer mark-up. Now that is just ridiculous. I'm sure Toyota dealers can see drool on a potential customer before you set foot in the showroom. How long do you think one has to wait before you can negotiate..what 2005.
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    Once the supply catches up, I figure December. There will be discounts on these vehicles. I think the marketing whizzes are missing the boat (again) by flooding the dealers with nothing but v8's for the first two months when everyone knows the v6 will be the big seller. Sometimes I don't know what they're thinking. I wish they would spend a year on the sales floor to actually take the pulse of the buying public.
    : )
  • I would think that the Prado, GX, and 4Runner all share the same platform. I would not think they would modify the suspension and frame JUST for the 4Runner. Anyway, elsewhere, the Prado is just as rugged as the 4Runner. In those countries, the Prado actually is the workhorse, unlike the mall-running/soccer-mom 4Runners in the US. The Prado is Toyota's answer to the Discovery.

    Here is another idea: why not find out the MINIMUM ground clearance on the new Prado?? That should clear up some confusion.

    Cargo space...if the new 4Runner's front AND rear seats were moved back (to improve legroom), wouldn't that decrease cargo space (regardless of rear seat being up or down)??? Could that explain the difference in cargo space between 3rd and 4th gen??
  • glzr2glzr2 Posts: 70
    I stopped by the dealership in Dearborn and all the 4runners were gone. I talked to one of the salesmen and he said that they were only on the lot 2 days and they were on their way to a big press release. He also said that a bunch of Ford and GM guys spent all day taking pictures of them. hhhmmmmmm.... interesting. I was really disappointed that they were gone, because I wanted to see them up close. I'm going to swing by Toyota Technical Center to see if they took them up there.
  • sbell4sbell4 Posts: 446
    what dimensions or weights are you guys wondering about?
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    Now what the heck are you doing over at Alexandria when I'm right around the corner? I'm actually fascinated by the response you got from them. I worked there for a couple of years and at the time, they were quite Internet friendly. With the exception of my current home here in Springfield, I actually found them to be be one of the better ones in this area.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    You have the actual brochure or just the full line brochure that came out this week?
  • Well, i guess that i have to eat my shoes!

    MINIMUM ground clearance = 8.9 (2wd), 9.1 (4wd)
    Approach/departure/breakover angles = 32/24/22 (4wd)

    Legroom = 41.7 (f) and 34.7 (r) (is it more than 3rd gen??)

    Height = 69.1 (2wd!)
    68.9 (4wd w/o air suspension)
    68.5 (4wd with air suspension)
    Length = 189
    Width = 73.8
    Turning diameter = 36.7
    Curb weight = 4420 lbs (Limited 4x4)

    Engine V6 = 245 HP at 5200
    283 Torque at 3800
    Premium fuel is recommended.
    Fuel economy = 15/19 (V8 4wd)
    17/20 (V6 4wd)

    TB, i guess this basically is everything you asked!

    I must say that the new 4runner looks REALLY good! Excellent! Still very capable!

    For more information (standard features, optional stuffs, and complete specs): (go to last few posts)

    Now, where did i put my shoes? :)
  • sbell4sbell4 Posts: 446
    It is the "actual" brochure in the e-brochure form. I am sending you an email.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,703
    I had posted this about two weeks ago on one of the Toyota topics (Sequoia, Land Cruiser or
    4Runner, GX470), bur I forgot which one...when I went back to check for any responses, I could
    not locate my original post...must be getting old or I might have been deleted...or maybe I forgot
    how to read my own post...anyway, if y’all would be so kind as to answer this (for either the first
    or second time) I would appreciate it, and please forgive my stupidity and transgressions of brain

    Comparing the 2003 GX470, 4Runner, Land Cruiser and Sequoia, what are the pluses and
    minuses of each, or to be specific, what are the REAL differences among them???...the engines
    are similar (V8s), I believe they are full size SUVs, the Land Cruiser may be the worst of both
    worlds: the price of the Lexus but without all the “courtesies and first class customer service”
    that Lexus is known to provide, etc.

    Can those in the know highlight the differing factors among them, the similar factors among
    them, which one they would buy (or avoid) and reasons why...and, again, I thank you for your
    feedback, humoring an incompetent poster like myself.

    I'd ask Cliffy to respond, but he has many vehicles to finance and may not have the time to give me the detailed answer I might receive (LOL)
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    In case you missed my other note, I have no record of your post being deleted.

    SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    You're asking for a lot here but I'll try.

    1. The 4Runner. It is a mid-sized SUV with the off-roader in mind. It is strong, built with a ladder frame and is very suitable for towing (although I am not happy with a 5000# capacity on the new V8). It can be had fairly plain to very luxurious. Being smaller than the others, it is easy to drive in town and this also makes it better on narrow trails.

    2. The Cruiser. It is the ultimate expression of luxury with off-road capabilities. There are more luxurious and better off roaders (the Hummer H1) but nothing with both. Due to its short wheelbase, it is better off road than the Sequoia. There is something else intangible that makes it what it is. I really can't describe it but when you drive it, you will feel it. Its just awesome. It is less expensive than the LX and now only lacks a wood finish, height adjustable suspension and memory seating. The buying experience is not Lexus but neither is the price.

    3. Sequoia. This is the SUV for soccer dads who also want to be able to tow and off-road. It is pretty long for extreme off roading but it will handle all but the most difficult trails well. While the Limited is VERY loaded with luxury features (including some that are still unavailable on the LC), it is missing that intangible feel I spoke of on the LC. It is a big beast.

    That's a summary. I would hope that brochures and visiting a dealer would answer more of the details.
  • sbell4sbell4 Posts: 446
    I apologize but I can not email anyone the brochure until they are released ( I made one exception for cliffy {DON'T MESS ME UP, CLIFFY!!!}). I don't mind if he shares some info on some of the specs but it doesn't need to be posted or released to anyone yet.
  • the whole truck has grown, remember? So, cliffy and I have been wondering that if the whole truck has gotten bigger, by about 3 to 5" in every direction, then why wouldn't there be a consistent ratio of growth? If they could increase the front leg room slightly, and the rear leg room slightly, then why would that encroach on the cargo space if those numbers don't add up to be more than the entire growth? There's only 3.5" more added leg room, which leaves 1.5" more for somewhere,so why the drastic decrease in cargo space? Even if that 1.5" was used elsewhere, the cargo space should remain the same or even get slightly bigger, because of the extra 3" of width. So, where did that space get used?

    Ah, but cliffy has come up with the most logical theory, that it could have a longer hood, therefore pushing everything back, in addition to the longer body.

    What you said was exactly my point about the Prado, that it's a rugged SUV over-seas, so maybe they just kept similar components on the GX as a cost-savings device. But then why spend the extra on the 4Runner to "dummy" some things down from off-road standards? That is a good question. It is a puzzle, unless, as you, myself, and others surmise, they're making this even more appealing to "soccer moms." Which seems to go against all logic; that the 4Runner would have some less rugged features than the more luxurious Lexus GX. It's very strange, and almost like Toyota couldn't make up their mind and got confused about their target markets.

    And speaking of confused...what the heck was that guy talking about in the AutoWeek interview, when he said the 4Runner is geared toward younger couples/buyers?! That's true to an extent, but a $40K Limited? Younger buyers?! Come on! This guy proved to me that Toyota has their heads up their patooties about marketing. They could have easily put the REMOVABLE 3rd row seats in as an option or standard on the Limited. Why don't they just say that they don't want to take too many sales away from the Lexus, and be done with it? That is the only logical reason. I don't believe the bull about their "off-road customers" not wanting the "added weight," when they could be an option, and REMOVABLE!

    Anyway, I still love this new truck! =o)
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    Thanks a bunch. I really appreciate that and, as I said in my e-mail, I wont mess you up. Funny though that this site has managed to come up with just about everything that is in the brochure without ever seeing it. At this point, the brochure just confirms what we already knew.
  • I am a bit confused about the interior volume that is given in the Toyota brochure. (It is available on another site) It lists the EPA cargo volume with the rear seats up as 42.2cf w/o the double decker cargo system and 40.6cf with the double decker cargo system; but with the rear seats folded it specifies the EPA cargo volume as 72.4cf w/o the double decker cargo system, and 75.1cf with the double decker cargo system. So it appears that the double decker cargo system increases the cargo volume with the seats folded, but decreases the cargo volume with the rear seats up. Could this possibly be due to the method the EPA uses to calculate the volume? That is, specific minimum box sizes? And could this explain the apparent cargo volume differential between the 2002 and 2003 4runners?
  • ""Final pricing was not available when we went to tape, but look for base stickers to range from $27,000 for an SR5 4X2, to $37,000 for a Limited 4X4.""

    Limited is what I expected, but $27,000 for a 2WD SR5 is more than I expected.
  • I have a very nice powerpoint presentation on the 2003 4Runner.

    If anyone would like it let me know. It's a pretty big file at 35mb, but if your on a fast connection it won't take that long to download.
  • I have noticed these "bad" stuff on the new 4Runner: (you guys know about the good stuff already)

    1. DIAL 4wd switch
    2. PEDAL parking brake
    3. Slight decrease in ground clearance
    4. Approach/departure/breakover angle is only OK, especially breakover angle
    5. Rear legroom is less i think!
    6. THICKER anti-roll bars may mean less wheel travel/articulation!
    7. Less cargo room (debatable right now)
    8. 17" tires are slightly undesirable in off-roading (although i do like them!)
    9. V6 is all-aluminum (not a big deal)
    10. V6 has only a 4-speed auto
    11. Price is still up in the air...may get pricey with options!
    12. Exterior design is OK

    Well, that is all i can say for now...otherwise, the new 4Runner looks like a winner. Still off-road capable.

    I am still confused about ground can the GX and 4Runner have different numbers?? What could Toyota have done to change it?? A possible (but unlikely) is that the 4Runner has a smaller rear axle (thus, the pumpkin is smaller), thus increasing the clearance. Or that the GX470 has more stuff hanging down on it's underbody??

    The other weird thing is the difference between the GX and 4Runner regarding parking brake and 4wd transfer case.
  • How do I download the program?
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,703
    since I know how busy you are, thank you for the detailed explanation...getting old just ain't as easy as it used to be...or, as Yogi Berra once said, "when you get to a fork in the road, take it"...

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