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Comments
Hope the poor guy will be OK, but he sure did a DUMB thing.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
I had hooked up over the Internet with someone kind enough to take a newbie wheelin'. The guy's name was Rod Keeling, and he lived near Mayfield, where Jim lives.
I have not seen Rod since that day. He got busy with some kind of job, and we never did hook up again. That's seems very strange, like it was fate that we should hook up just that one time, and that his job was to get me hooked on wheelin'. Well, if so, he did a GREAT job!
Here's the link. Please read the descriptions for each pic. When you blow them up to their largest size, you will see below the pic, a description field.
Thelma Jane sure looks funny in those pics without her lift, mud tires, winch, and rocker guards. She was bone stock back then, except for her 31 x 10.50 All Terrain tires.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
http://www.itsajeep.org/PhotoPost/showgallery.php?cat=15008&p- - puser=4&password=&page=1
I'm not going to 'wheel today because of the weather. If they haven't shut the local national forests completely, they should. This year's fires are far worse than anything that LA has seen in quite a few years.
I will link each pic separately below:
http://www.itsajeep.org/PhotoPost/data/15008/4wholegang.jpg
http://www.itsajeep.org/PhotoPost/data/15008/4redwhiteblue.jpg
http://www.itsajeep.org/PhotoPost/data/15008/4firstclimb.jpg
http://www.itsajeep.org/PhotoPost/data/15008/4firsttimewater.jpg
http://www.itsajeep.org/PhotoPost/data/15008/4firstmud.jpg
http://www.itsajeep.org/PhotoPost/data/15008/4thelmamuddy.jpg
That pic where Thelma is climbing a little is funny for me to look at. I thought that day that it was just amazing that Thelma Jane would climb like that, but now something like that is just routine and no big thrill at all. She climbs a LOT steeper hills than that.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
-twylie
I have never been much of a mechanic, or really ANY kind of mechanic, but when you have a Jeep, it just seems like part of the whole Jeep Thing is learning to work on your own vehicle. There are so many "mods" that you just can't afford to pay someone to install them. Also, it's good to learn your vehicle, so that you can spot problems before they go too far. This is especially true if you take your Jeep offroad. The routine maintenance for a Jeep that goes offroad involves a lot more than is required for one that sees only pavement.
A factory service manual is a real good investment!
So, CONGRATS!
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
I hope your not too close to all those fires.
Wish I could send you some of our rain.
Rich
Anyhow I am currently in the market for either a Sport or a Rubicon I test drove both a few months ago and am now just about ready to make a move. I really loved the Rubicon but obviously liked the price on the Sport better.
Where I live they use alot of salt on the roads in the winter which is mainly what led to the demise of my CJ. How have the newer Jeeps been holding up? Anyone else in a similar area have good or bad luck with corrosion?
I plan on doing some moderate off roading...What are the advantages and disadvantages of manual versus automatic? I'm leaning toward the manual...
Any thoughts on Soft top/hard top/dual tops? (Leaning toward the dual setup)
Now the biggie....PRICE..
What kind of deals are people getting? I know that there is a $1500 rebate offered right now on the wranglers... Can anyone give me an idea how much dealers are knocking off of sticker on top of the rebates?
I'm sure I'll have some more questions in the next day or two but any thoughts on the above will really help me. Thanks in advance..
Much like yourself, I am looking at buying a Wrangler (although in my case I have pretty well decided on a Rubi - once (hopefully) financing rates become a little better anyways). Here are my thoughts...
Definitely go with the dual top option. You get the most versatility as well as (from all I have read) the best available hard-top for the least amount of money.
I have no idea about corrosion... a couple of friends of mine have jeeps (one is an older YJ, the other a newer TJ) and neither has any problems with rust. However, we don't use a lot of salt around here...
As to which model you pick. If you are planning on moderate or heavier off-roading, I think the Rubi. is definitely the better choice. That price difference would be quickly gobbled up if you outfitted the Sport with equipment equivalent to the Rubi - but with the Rubi you have the comfort of having it all being factory installed and under warranty.
The transmission issue appears to be debatable with pros and cons for either side. There are some very knowledgeable folks on this board that will likely have some very good input on this...
Andrew
They don't use salt at all on our roads - just sand, so my experience might not be what you would get. Also, for the most part we have low humidity (especially at the moment). I don't have any problems with rust on my 5 year old TJ, and I've driven it on the beach once, often drive through shallow streams and other off-roading places (but rarely mud).
MT or auto really is a personal choice. I have a 5 speed and love it, though it has some drawbacks when you are off-roading, especially in sand (easier to spin your wheels accidentally and that quickly gets you stuck).
Sport vs. Rubicon - I go along with Andrew - if you are going to be putting larger tires and lockers on your Sport, save the money and get the Rubicon. Works out to be cheaper in the long run. If you are planning on off-roading a stock vehicle, like I do, then save your money and get the Sport. The Sport is quite capable straight out of the box. While I look longingly at all of the extras you get on a Rubicon, I haven't found myself wishing for the lockers etc. so the Sport is perfect for my needs.
In the end both are excellent vehicles and you can have fun with either one of them.
Wranglers have no more of a problem with corrosion than any other modern vehicle. However, should you be unlucky enough to get a structural rust problem, a chassis is easier to properly repair than a unibody.
Manual v Auto really boils down to personal preference. I've driven a variety manuals off road for many years and now drive an auto Wrangler. I'd never go back, but there are plenty of valid arguments for the manual.
Dual top represents the best value for money versus buying one or the other later.
Finally, don't even think of working down from the sticker price (MSRP). Start at invoice or less and come up a little from there if necessary.
Good luck.
You've already received some good advice from others, but for no extra charge, I'll throw out some of my thoughts.
I believe it was Mac that said the Rubicon is really for someone who will do some fairly serious off roading. That's not to say that you HAVE to off road with a Rubicon, but why pay more for things that you won't really use?
The Rubicon has Dana 44 axles front and rear, whereas the Sport would have the Dana 30 up front and the Dana 35 in the rear (Dana 44 in the rear is an option). The Rubicon has a 4:1 low range in the transfer case, and the Sport has a 2.72:1 low range. The 4:1 is more for rock crawling and is not necessary for most other conditions.
The Rubicon has selectable lockers front and back, and these lockers act as limited slips when they are not engaged as full lockers. This is a REAL nice feature that would be useful whether you rock crawl or not.
The Rubicon comes from the factory with 31" Goodyear MT/R tires, which are very good off road tires. A stock TJ Sport will accomodate 31 x 10.50 tires, though, so you could upgrade your tires, if you get a Sport.
Ratpatrol, it sounds to me like your best bet is the Sport, from what you said about how you will be using the Jeep.
The top option is a very important decision. In the Northeast, with the harsh winters, a hard top might be a necessity. The sail cloth soft tops nowadays are very quiet, and I have heard that the cab is not hard to heat, even with the soft top. But, scraping ice and snow off of the plastic windows could scratch them. Also, with the hard top, you have a rear window defroster and a washer/wiper.
If you think you will EVER want a hard top, the time to get it is when you buy your Jeep. You will never come close to getting a factory quality hard top for the same amount of money.
I would recommend the hard top only, or the dual top option, if you can swing the price.
Now, old Mac would tell you to get ABS, especially up there with so much snow and ice in the winter. I would tell you to get the Dana 44 rear axle, which is much stronger than the Dana 35. Unfortunately, you have to choose between the two: you cannot get ABS with the Dana 44.
The Dana 35 is OK for a lot of people, but if you ever get seriously into off roading and want a locker and bigger tires, then the Dana 44 is the axle you want. The Dana 44 is beefier than the Dana 35.
If you want the Dana 44, then the option package AAS is the way to go. It gets you the Dana 44 rear axle, 30" tires, alloy wheels, and gas shocks for $850. That is a super deal for all that you get.
Jeeps are being sold for invoice or very near invoice, plus you get the factory rebate. I haven't been in the market for one since getting my Jeep, but I got mine for $200 over invoice, and that was not uncommon back then.
Use the Edmunds car pricing feature and build yourself a Jeep. You get the invoice price that way, minus the ad fees. Edmunds does not list the ad fees, since they vary by region. The dealer will charge you for ad fees, and this is a legitimate item on the invoice, even though Edmunds does not list these fees.
Good luck, and keep us posted on how it goes!
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
C you guys when I get back. Keep up the good work in helping Ratpatrol!
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
My personal preference is the manual, but that IS just personal preference to a large extent.
Some things to consider about the auto trannies are:
1. The four speed autos that are going into the TJs are fairly new and had some bugs. Maybe they are all worked out after the initial year for them, which was the 03 model year???
2. Tranny vent lines are not as high for some reason as they are on the manual tranny. Some people correct this by extending them. If you get into water that is a little too deep with an auto tranny, it can be big time bad news.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
-Mike
I have a bad habit of letting my hand rest on the shifter. When I would downshift into third, the weight of my hand would push the shifter forward slightly and out of position. That would result in the oscillation.
Embarrassing, but I'd rather that than have a real problem.
Thanks, Mike
http://home.earthlink.net/~tsjay49/thelma.html
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
:--)
You might get one of the rare salemen who actually know something about Wranglers, but I wouldn't count on it.
Get info here or by "building" a Jeep at Jeep.com. Talk to someone who knows something about Jeeps, if you know anyone who could help ya. Get a brochure.
It's a shame, but the vast majority of salesmen know squat about Wranglers.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
And anyone heading out to the great outdoors, be careful and pay attention to what is going on around you. Imagine a dark morning with an amusement park's numberous roller coasters all lit up. Next to them is a black hill and beyond that another bunch of lights - a yellow glow from the low flames of a brush fire. That's what I saw this morning on my way into work. Definitely spooky!
Mike - Have you started to explore some of the national forest trails yet?
Mtngal, hope the wind remains quiet today - we get brush/grass fires in my area but nothing like SoCal.
Steve, Host
As for getting rid of the mildew, this can/should work, but you will need to be VERY careful, especially if you have a dark color.
Mix a solution of half/half water/bleach. Use a spray bottle or soak a rag, but not dripping wet. Saturate the mildew spots and let it sit. If you are worried about drips and bleaching your interior, use a drop cloth like you would use for painting. This method also works on walls in your house too.
Speaking of tops, has anybody done anything with their hard top to make it quieter? I was thinking about dynamat on a hard top interior surface and putting a liner of some type over it. What cha think?
Up here in the San Jaoquin Valley, I can see the distinct smoke plumes from several fires. Spooky.
I don't plan on any offroading or camping until the fires die down or we get rain. Too risky at this point.
Your point about be aware is well taken. Whenever you are out of doors, have the necessary gear for survival (first aid kit, non-perishable foods, WATER, clothes, etc) with you. You NEVER know when something like that will come and bite you. Things can change literally within minutes out there and you have limited methods/paths of escape.
-Paul
I will have to figure out when and where I can take my TJ to have another dealer look at it. Do you think that it is anything serious, or will it fail eventually?
None of the above will contribute to a long transmission life.
:--(
Jeep will be a week old on Thursday. already over 300 miles on it. some top issues are gonna have to get fixed. dealer will probably just replace rear window. one of the zippers is missing it's handle, and one of the snaps on the top, back, "brace" is not working -
other than that, and the occasional missing of third gear, it is great fun, and great to be back.
still not sure what i think about the design of the steering wheel. why did my 99 Sport have a leather wrapped wheel, and my 04 Sport does not?
One of the fires near San Diego was started by a hunter who supposedly set a signal fire to find his partner. The firestorm created by that small thing killed the most people in SoCal. I get equally frustrated by the small percentage of dumb hunters and off-roaders - they give the thousands of careful and considerate hunters and 4 wheelers a bad name. OK, I'll get off my soap box.
Bleach is the commonly used chemical to treat all types of mold, so it should work on a hard top. The other thing (besides all that Paul brought up) that you might want to think about is to use it in a well ventilated area - the fumes can get strong.
I've got gear in each of my cars, just in case.
-Paul
i joined this discussion group in hopes of getting some information about jeep wranglers because i'm considering buying a 1999 or 2000 wrangler se.
since i was a kid i've wanted a jeep. since i'm now looking for another car i thought i'd start figuring out if a jeep would be a good choice.
i drove a brand new wrangler once on a bright sunny day. it was black with tan leather interior and i loved it.
my main concern with the wrangler is the tipping over factor. do they roll over a lot? whenever i expressed interest in purchasing one, i was warned against it by well meaning friends due to this safety issue. i've read the editor's review on edmunds that states that driving the wrangler on the freeway in high winds at high speeds is scary. however, i think i'll just stay off the freeway on such days. :-)
i'm in search of a vehicle that is fun to drive and lets me feel the road. i don't really enjoy driving cars that feel like i'm rolling on clouds. i currently drive a honda crx, 5 spd, with 140,000 miles. seems very different from a jeep but maybe not so different in terms of fun factor.
i don't do any off road driving so maybe a jeep wrangler isn't the best choice? i live in ohio and the past few winters have been snowy, that's a good jeep thing. :-)
i've yet to test drive one but i thought jeep lovers might have some interesting input.
thanks.
susan
Brian
There are some definite disadvantages to the Wrangler, but if driven sensibly within its capabilities it has no more risk of roll over than any other SUV and it actually has a fairly low rate. It is terrible in the wind (I know - my commute goes through an area that is usually windy and I'm often white knuckled), and extremely thirsty at higher speeds. I can get a pretty consistent 20 mpg (almost all highway) if I keep my speed around 65. If I slow down some in the wind it isn't so bad - sometimes I go 50-60 mph when there are wind warnings. If you are going to be doing much highway driving I would strongly advise you to buy a Sport or the newer X. The SE only has a 4 cylinder engine and it is much noisier at higher speeds. The Sport and X both have the 4.0L inline 6 cylinder and is much quieter.
All those things that make the Wrangler excellent off-road works against it on the road. The TJ (97 on) are pretty comfortable compared to older models as far as ride. They have a short wheelbase and have a choppy ride. There is one spot on the I-405 freeway where the expansion joints are at an interval that really gets the Wrangler rocking.
There isn't much insulation, so it is noisy. The heater and air conditioner work well, so the lack of insulation only makes a difference with the sound.
The seats are very comfortable, it can be parked just about anywhere, if you have a soft top you have a convertable and you can get through all kinds of terrain and weather. I really love mine, even with all of its disadvantages.
The best thing to do is test drive one and see what you think. If you are willing to put up with the disadvantages, it is a truly FUN vehicle (and it doesn't matter if you never take it off-road).
Oh, one last thing. If you have Wrangler fever there isn't any cure except to buy one. I got it in my early 20's and it didn't go away. I finally gave into it when I was 45, and now I'll get another one when my Noble Black Steed finally falls apart. It is 5 years old and has 112,000 on the odometer and is still going strong, and I want to replace my 2000 Tacoma with something else first.
I drove a SE for about five years and it does best sporting around town. The 4.0 engine that you can't get in the SE, is better for the open road. You'll definitely feel the road and you'll surely have fun too.
Gary
I drive about 100 miles daily to work. It's all State of Maine highway. No problems at all with high speed driving or poor road manners. It was a little interesting in my first wind storm, but not all that much different from a full size pickup.
Every off-road benefit is a trade off on the road. However, everything is relative. People warned me of excessive road noise and the cold in the winter. I think my wrangler with the hard top on is just as quiet and warm as my Ram w/ All Terrain tires. Just crank the radio louder, hold on to the wheel w/ both hands, maybe drop into 4th and have fun!
-Bill
thanks for your input about the wrangler.
after reading your posts, i'm looking forward to test driving some jeeps this weekend. i feel less afraid of rolling over and since i take the bus to work most days, the jeep may not be a daily adventure, although i might want it to be. :-)
although i'm used to a car that sits low to the ground, i'm sure that i will get used to sitting up so much higher. and my small car gets buffeted (sp) by the wind as well as semi trucks when i'm on the highway, although i'm sure it feels differently in a vehicle that sits up higher. i just have to be sensible and realize the limitations of a jeep, just like the limitations of a honda crx. :-)
now that i'm a bus rider, i don't get on the highway much anymore, but after the info you have provided, i think i'll consider finding a used jeep wrangler sport instead of an se. i might eventually need to drive the jeep more.
it's supposed to be in the 70s here on saturday (columbus, ohio) so it should be a great day for a test drive.
thanks again for taking the time to help me out!
susan
It doesn't take long at all to get used to sitting up high, and now I'm uncomfortable when I drive anything lower than my 2WD Tacoma. A Wrangler can turn on a dime and give you some change, so be aware that the steering is different than most other vehicles. Take your time when you are doing your test drive (if you can) and get used to a very different vehicle. That steering is great - I now have a hard time with parking the Taco since the Wrangler is so easy to park.
And further good news - there is a slight possibility of sprinkles/light rain on Friday or Saturday! And since it will be cold, they are talking about a snow level of 5,000 feet! All you Easterners or NorWesterners, please send us some of your rain.
Paul - I wish I had a better clearance around my home. In the spring I'll be able to limb a tree that has overgrown my back deck. While the rest meets Kern Co. laws, it really isn't enough. Hope you are upwind of all of this mess.
-Paul
i read through several messages on this board but i can't locate one that addressed a mileage issue with a used jeep. someone asked if a price was reasonable for a jeep with 92K miles.
i know that cars can go for a while and mine has 140K now, but it's beginning to nickel and dime me and it now burns oil when it didn't before. so when do jeeps, in general, begin to age to the point of being more trouble than they are worth? or do they ever? :-)
is it worth the money for me to buy a 98 se with 70-80K for around $10,000? i found a red sport with 52K for $10,000 too. car prices are a mystery unto themselves. maybe i just can't believe my good luck with these lower prices.
i drove around tonight and visited jeep wranglers!! :-) i really like the red and the black ones. found a very pretty yellow girl but she's way out of my price range! but maybe i'll go test drive her on saturday!
susan
I don't know much about used car prices - I would start by checking here on Edmunds. I've used their prices to get an idea of what my Taco would be worth as a trade in (not much, unfortunately). I also usually check a couple of other sites that have used car prices (kbb and nada, there are others) to get an overall idea.
Jim - Does anyone use break in oil any more? The owners manual for my '98 said that the oil was regular oil, and I don't think my 2000 Taco had it either.
It is a Jeep day today - there was a coating of frozen white stuff on the vehicles this morning! Snow level does seem to be 5000 feet, rain lower down. I know there are many people who are very grateful for this otherwise "lousy" weather.
HOWEVER, a monkey wrench in the works of sorts. I was in a dealership yesterday and saw my second [Jeep Wrangler X] Willys Edition. The only difference was that they had taken the stock [Moss Green painted] wheels and put 31x10.50 mud tires on them, which gave it even more of a true GI look. I hate to assume, but I will, that these stock wheels will adequately take 31x10.50 tires? Can I also assume that this edition is using the Dana 35 axle? In general, does anyone have any input on this Willys Edition...love, hate, or indifference? Jeep claims it is only going to make 1,500 of them and then they're history (my dealer back home says he'll sell me his Willys for invoice and I get to keep the various rebates, including, ironically, the $500 military one). I'm somewhat partial to military Jeeps, as my first vehicle in life was an Army Jeep (stolen by the Air Force and painted blue). I'm really interested to hear what the "membership" has to say.
By the way, one more Sport question. If you were only going to use a soft top (probably in a desert-like climate), and you had your choice of doors, would you take the half-doors or the full-metal doors with real windows? As always, thanks...
Steve