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Jeep Wrangler

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    goducks1goducks1 Member Posts: 432
    You know, I've been driving Jeeps for 7 or 8 years now--first a 94 YJ, then my 98 TJ--and I've never had a problem, ever. Sometimes I lock the doors, sometimes I don't, sometimes I leave the top down and doors off and still no problems. I put a club on the steering wheel and detach the stereo faceplate sometimes but that's it. I don't leave valuables in it or much of anything else.

    I've lived in Oregon, California and North Carolina, and with the exception of the neighborhood cats I don't think anyone has even gotten in my Jeep without me there, let alone touched the stereo or glovebox. Other people have really bad luck--yellowman had his stolen twice but the computer-key option prevented them from getting very far. He also lived in the San Fernando valley for what it's worth. I'd think you'd be alright in Edmonton.
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    greenjeepgreenjeep Member Posts: 15
    Hello, ctjeepfan: For what its worth to you, I got a 2004 Rubicon, 6cyl. 5sp. loaded for $23,000. My husband got it for me Easter weekend and this is what he got them down to. MSRP listed it at $29,800. I'm not sure what invoice was. I think we got a good deal on it because it is loaded with every option you could possibly have; dual tops, A/C, 7 speaker sound system, added security trunk, etc. etc. (except the automatic) which I definitely did not want anyway. It also has the electric lime green pearl coat paint which is also listed as an option - $150 extra(you either hate it or you love it). I wanted it just because it was different and I really do like the attention it gets. I probably didn't need to have the Rubicon because of all the heavy duty stuff on it that I probably will never use, however I'm going to try very hard to. So anyway, I hope my two cents worth helps give you an idea of where you might stand in making a deal on the model that you want with the options you want.

    I'd rather be jeepin'
    greenjeep
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    drosketerdrosketer Member Posts: 203
    It's the first time I have ever intentionally left my vehicle unlocked - have to try and get used to it. I do have one of those clutch clubs in there to prevent theft (on top of the Sentry key option). The stereo is the upgraded factory one, so hopefully there isn't much interest in it (unfortunately no way to take the face plate off gracefully).

    Speaking of the soft top... I've read about storing the windows when they are off. Anyone have suggestions on who makes a good window storage bag? I notice Mopar doesn't seem to list it (or at least the link off the Canadian Jeep site) doesn't have one...

    Lastly, any opinions on the bug deflector? Are they worth the price? It seems a minor investment to help protect the windshield and paint at the front of the hood (where I have already received a chip or two)!

    Andrew
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    erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    As for window storage, check the major 4x4 sites like quadratec, jcwhitney, or 4wd. Storage bags are made for that. There is even one you can roll your windows up with layers of soft fabric in between the windows to help prevent scratches. You could always use some soft terry cloth towels between them and roll em yourself and put in a closet. :)

    As for the bug deflector, I'll probably add one just to cover some of the hood that has gotten messed up from bird stuff. It does angle the wind a bit, so I'd give it a shot.

    -Paul
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    goducks1goducks1 Member Posts: 432
    I don't have any storage bags for my windows since they fold into the top I have, but I bought a pair of the Bestop Door Jackets and I'll vouch for those. Overpriced, but they do a good job. I know they make window bags.
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    tonitoni Member Posts: 2
    Hi everyone. :)

    First, let me preface this with a bit about myself: "I am completely vehicle ignorant!" Okay, with that out of the way, here goes:

    I would like to buy my son a used Jeep Wrangler for his 16th bday. I don't have a ton of money (probably around $7-$8,000.00 - maybe can pull off a bit more), so I'll have to stick with the older models.

    What he really wants is a Suzuki Samarai, but I remember when those came out (yes, I'm old) and the Jeep drivers were horrified by it. They figured they could tip the Samarai over with their pinky fingers. Now, that scares me.

    So, I've been eyeing up the Jeep Wranglers and they look like very decent off-road/city/highway vehicles. The Wrangler would be MY choice not his. Does that make me a horrible mother? :(

    Anyway, my son has some 'fancy' ideas about what he'd like to do with a Samarai and I'm hoping that I can find a Jeep Wrangler model that will allow the same type of 'souping-up'. He wants to add BIG tires, a booming stereo, and other such 16yr old 'ultra-cool' thingy-ma-bobs. No wench...nothing that serious. Just frilly things to show off to his friends. Don't get him wrong, though, he does want to do some serious off-roading, but in reality, I think he'll do much more city driving & hauling around oily greasy industrial stuff than off-roading.

    So, can anyone offer me any suggestions? What Wrangler can accomodate BIG wheels, is a safe off-road vehicle, and built for a really dirty-messy kinda guy (eg., dark interior, easily cleanable, etc.)? And please, if you have time, could you tell me why the Samarai is a total wimp vehicle as opposed to the Wrangler? I need some hard-core details to back me up when I tell him that I think a Wrangler is a much better choice for him.

    Thanks so much for anyone that can help this ole mom out! :)
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    erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    Toni,

    I have a 17 year old daughter and was in the same boat you are.

    I wanted her to have something nice and got her a 97 TJ SE for 6,000. Once I did that though, I really came to regret it. A driver at that age has enough problems keeping cars intact w/o taking it offroad. Now this is just my opinion, I wouldn't get a new driver a TJ. They haven't developed driving enough (generally) to know how to handle on road situation, let alone offroad.

    Now here is what we did:
    Our daughter took a defensive driving class at Willow Springs raceway with our Grand Cherokee. She learned how to handle a top heavy SUV properly. I still didn't her offroading though. :)

    The TJ is now mine and she has a Honda, but drives it more responsibly (for the most part) because of the driving traits she learned in the class.

    As for modding a TJ, Oh yeah you can! Bigger tires/wheels, bumpers, lifts, flares, interiors, stereos, etc can all be done VERY easily, even by somebody like me! :) The Samurai is a decent little offroader, but like the old CJ's could have a higher liklihood of tipping if not handled correctly.

    The TJ's can still tip over, but were designed such that the wheel base minimizes it quite a bit. Getting aftermarket parts for a TJ is VERY easy - I imagine the Sammy is easy too, just not as easy as a Jeep. Just check out quadratec or 4wd.com for parts ideas.

    As a new driver, I wouldn't recommend him getting a higher tire profile as that would raise the center of gravity. Let him get experience first, then go for it. TJ's are safe offroaders, but a lot of the safety depends on the person doing the thinking and driving.

    If you want to offroad, you want to make sure the rear axle is the stronger Dana 44. TJ models X and SE have Dana 35's. The 44 can handle the larger tires/wheels. The 35's can't (as easily or as well).

    -Paul
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    tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    I concur with Erickpl/Paul. Offroading is serious stuff and I would focus on general driving skills for a 16 year old's first vehicle.

    tidester, host
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    erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    Wanna see an interesting/scary video? If you go to Toys by Troy's website, you can click their gallery link and see a video of somebody having a problem at Moab. Read the story about it - it is AMAZING!

    They have some incredibly strong stuff they sell that I'm adding to my TJ (rocker steps).

    -Paul
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    tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    What a mom! You are definitely a cool mother!!!

    There's no way to tell you all that you need to know in one post. I'll give you some of the basics, and others can chime in too. It would be best if you read some old posts to get a feel for Jeeps.

    The current generation of short wheel base Jeeps (Wranglers)is the TJ. The first model year for the TJ was 1997. The predecessor to the TJ was the YJ, and YJs were introduced in 1987 and were discontinued after the 1995 model year (there is no such thing as a 1996 model Wrangler).

    As far as after market modifications that can be added, there is probably not another vehicle in the world that gets modified nearly as much as the Wrangler does.

    Your price range puts you kind of on the border line between a late model YJ and an early model TJ. I would recommend going with a TJ, since they have much improved ride with their coil springs, whereas the YJ has leaf springs and a much rougher ride.

    There are about a million other things you should really know, but I have to get back to work for now.

    If you find a particular Jeep, feel free to tell us about it and we will give you our opinion of it.

    Sorry, but I can't say too much bad about Samurai's. I go offroading with a couple of them, and they are really good trail rigs. They have an even shorter wheel base than a Jeep, and this can cause the front end on them to want to come up off the ground more than a Jeep's would. So, I don't guess anyone could argue if we said a Jeep is more stable.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
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    zinman61zinman61 Member Posts: 14
    toni,

    I also concur with erickpl and our host. A Wrangler is a difficult first car for anyone; let alone a 16 year old. I'm a year away from that situation with my daughter. My solution (since I want a Wrangler more than she does) is that she'll drive my '97 Camry and I'll purchase a new Wrangler. Over time, as her driving improves, I'll ease her into the Wrangler. I'm also considering an advanced driving course for her. Check the stats, teen driving records are abysmal.
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    goducks1goducks1 Member Posts: 432
    I'm not sure, but I don't think they make the Suzuki Samarai anymore. It would have to be quite old, I think it's been 7 or 8 years now since they made it though the things run forever. Maybe they are called Sidekicks now?

    I'm 33 and don't have kids so my perspective is different than a lot of the people here. I would agree a Jeep is not a great first car. Handling is poor. It's so-so in crashes. The rational part of me thinks teens should be driving a safe, used mid-sized sedan like an Accord with a 4-cylinder engine. That's what the Car Talk guys say on NPR all the time. They're probably right.

    But the part that still acts like a teen wishes I had bought a Jeep when I was in high school. None of my friends had them, they weren't too big in Pennsylvania where I went to HS. But it would have been cool to have a CJ or Wrangler. And my first car was a big ol' Chevy truck with big tires and a thirsty V8 and I never crashed it into anything.

    So if you let him get a Wrangler, recognize it's somewhat more dangerous than a bland sedan, and bigger tires will make it more so. Wranglers interiors handle dirt really well, it's a true truck. It's probably only a bit more dangerous than a compact pickup truck. It will certainly handle a crash better than a Suzuki Samarai or Tracker or whatever they are called these days--it has more mass and a true truck frame. I'd make sure to get him the 4-cylinder version.

    You've seen how he drives, right? Do you think he will be more responsible than the average teen? If so, I'd consider it. Don't let him put a lift on it though, or get big tires. And a loud stereo means he can't hear other traffic. Not safe, especially when he's a beginning driver.
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    tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Sorta like Goducks was saying... it all depends on the kid. I know statistics say that teens are terrible drivers, and there's no denying that in general, this is true.

    However, there are teens who are very good drivers. A teen that is interested in going off road is probably one who is not overly impressed with speed. He might be safer in a Jeep, where he knows the limitations, than in a sedan where he would be more tempted to push the envelope.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
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    erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    I wouldn't worry about the loud stereo... the TJ is loud already. :)

    -Paul
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    greenjeepgreenjeep Member Posts: 15
    I totally agree with everyone about a first vehicle for a teen. I too remember being in the position of a 16 year old. I wanted a Jeep too. Of course that was back when the CJ-7's were current. My Dad refused to let me have one. I just gave up asking cause he wouldn't budge on the idea one bit so I just blew it off. Then back in the Fall of 1999 the Jeep thing popped back into my head and I went out and bought that 1980 Jeep CJ-7 I had wanted when I was a teen. From the very first time I drove it I realized immediately why my Daddy didn't want me (an inexperienced driver) to have it. Paul is definitely right about the tipping part, which was my Dad's major concern. The CJ-7 drives like nothing you've ever driven before. It's very bouncy and it "wanders" all over the road. If you turn too sharp or go around a corner too fast it will definitely let you know about it. I still own this Jeep and I love it immensely but would I let my son drive it? Most likely not. The difference in its road manners versus the new TJs are like night and day. I agree with these other folks on the board, if you want to go with a Jeep go for a newer, more refined mannerly TJ. I have a 2004 TJ and its hard for me to believe this thing is called a "Jeep". It rides just as good as my Chevy Tahoe on the highway and it takes corners better than I ever expected from a Jeep.

    A kid can get hurt in any type of vehicle if they are not responsible. I think the key factor here is driver education and a thorough understanding of the vehicle they want to drive.
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    tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    it depends on the individual. Heck, some kids operate farm tractors at 10 or 12 years of age, and tractors are pretty dangerous.

    I think it would have been cool to have a Jeep as my first vehicle. I can't believe I was 51 before ever owning a short wheel base Jeep! :(

    If the kid understands that a Jeep is a whole different animal than a passenger car, and if he understands the limitations, AND if he is a responsible person, then why not get the Jeep?

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
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    saharancsaharanc Member Posts: 3
    80+ degree days upcoming in NC = topless and doorless!

    2 Q's: bestop halftop and bikini/windjammer/duster: water resistant enough for a DD driven and left in the elements at times??

    Also, will either work with a sound bar? Maybe a safari header with the windjammer/duster?

    Or am I better off sticking with the factory soft top (2002)

    Thanks.
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    tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Man, didn't anyone come back with some info for ya? I wish I could help, but I don't have any experience with that set up.

    I have a safari top that I run for sun protection more than for rain protection. It doesn't do a lot of good for rain.

    Can anyone help SaharaNC???

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
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    twylietwylie Member Posts: 619
    It depends on how picky you are with stuff getting a little wet in your Jeep. I run this combo most fo the summer. 90% of the time, it's duster only, then add the bikini for really hot or rainy days and the windjammer for rain or long trips. That setup still leaves a couple of inches around the window frames and rear "window". I've driven mine in really heavy downpours and you'll get a bit wet at times. Rain will track back on the bikini strap going to the footman loop, entering the cockpit. As far as the soundbar, I think some of the Mopar bikini tops may cover the soundbar or sound pods if you have an '03+, but there isn't much to hurt on the soundbars by getting them wet. The rain will run around to the bottom but then drip off as it hits the speaker grille.

    One solution for you if you need to leave it out in the elements for an extended time is a trail cover. This company sells a nice one that even covers the openings if you have your doors off. http://www.jeepcovers.com

    If you're looking for a less time consuming solution than the full soft top, I dont' think there is one. The duster/bikini/jammer is a great versitile setup, but by the time you install all pieces, you can fit the factory top. The benefit of the other system is the modularity that allows you to run only the pieces you need. It's also nice since the individual components are small and easily stowed in the Jeep. A final benefit of not using the soft top is that when offroad, I'm less worried about damaging the material than I am when running the full soft top. If I get a tear, replacing a $50 bikini is a lot less painful than a $500+ top.

    Feel free to ask any specific questions you might have. I have the Bestop drill bikini, windjammer and duster. Pics of mine: http://www.ewylie.com/jeep/other.htm#duster

    -twylie
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    goducks1goducks1 Member Posts: 432
    The regular bikini does not cover the soundbar. It doesn't look like the halftop does either. I've had mine rained on before and it didn't hurt it, but it was only a quick shower. I'm also in NC and that soaking rain earlier this week would be too much for it. The duster etc combo is like you said, water-resistant. Not waterproof. So it's your call. In a desert climate it wouldn't be an issue, but here it is. I'd just start with a bikini or safari top for the sunny days and put up the soft top when it rains. Unless they've changed it, though, I think the Bestop no-drill header channel isn't exactly quick to get on and off. I mean, it doesn't clamp-on with levers, you need to get the socket and wrench out to open and close bolts.
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    goducks1goducks1 Member Posts: 432
    I had one of those Rain Gear covers trey mentions in the above post and it worked pretty well. I sold it since I bought the new Rock Gear soft top, but I'll vouch for it being well-made. And heavy-duty, it's made of heavy Cordura, like a good backpack.
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    tonitoni Member Posts: 2
    Wow, what a nice group of people you are. I ~so~ appreciate you all taking the time out to offer your opinions on my situation. :)

    Hmmmm...well, now I'm sitting here kinda chewing on my lip wondering what to do. He has no clue that I'm going to buy him his 1st vehicle, so his heart is really set on a Samurai (he's spent hours upon hours on the internet drooling over them). I was figuring that I would be sorta breaking his heart already by putting my foot down and buying him a Wrangler instead, and now I'm not sure whether or not I should even do that? He's my boy and I don't want him to see him get hurt EVER - especially not in something that ~I~ give him. If anything happened to him because of a choice that I made, I don't know what I'd do. He's already got his motorcycle permit and the only thing I've let him do with that is go dirt bike riding with his friends on the weekends. He probably thinks I'm SO MEAN, you know?

    And about his driving experience, most of you are right, he's not super keen on the street or highways yet, but he's a lot better than I thought he'd be when he drives my car (Audi S4).

    Aside from a dirt bike & my car, he's been operating forklifts since he was a tiny guy...maybe 11-12yrs old, or so, and has also been driving a big truck to haul around forklifts & other industrial equipment for his dad - but only for short distances. He's an expert forklift operator, but I don't know if that really has any bearing on whether or not he'd be a good Jeep driver?

    So, last night I poured over the used car section here on the edmunds site and could not find anything that he'd be interested in other than a Mitsubishi 3000gt or an olddddd BMW M model that he once told me he'd like to have. And I don't think either of those cars would be a good choice for him, not to mention the fact that I really can't afford either one.

    I guess I'm really stuck here. He's one of those kinds of guys who loves dirt and mess and grit and...well, you get the idea, so I definitely can't see him happy driving a Toyota Corolla or something of that sort, you know?

    Gosh, I'm stuck!

    Um, er, uh...can I ask what TJ stands for? *blush* Also, what models come with the Dana 44?

    Thanks again so much to all of you!!!! :)
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    erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    Toni's Jeep? :)

    It doesn't stand for anything in particular. It is just Jeep's code name for that model.

    My other car has the designation E46 by its manufacturer.

    My Grand Cherokee has the WJ designation. It is just a way for those familiar with Jeeps to distinguish which particular version they have. :)

    The D44 comes standard front and rear on the Rubicon. It is available on the Sport (as an option) and the Sahara (not sure if it is standard or an option here). It is NOT available on the X (4.0L inline 6 cyl engine) or the SE (2.5 or 2.4L inline 4 cyl engine).

    -Paul
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    goducks1goducks1 Member Posts: 432
    Just keep in mind:

    Any car with a removable roof, be it a Jeep or a Samurai or a convertible, is going to be less safe than a fixed-roof model in a crash or (God help you) a rollover.

    A truck handles worse than a car. Big tires and lifts make it handle even worse and more likely to flip. Trucks have more mass in an accident than most cars and are in a sense better off because of it, though that comes at the expense of whomever they hit.

    If a car can go fast, a teen will drive it that way. Teen boys generally suffer from YMIS (young male immortality syndrome). They will push any car to its limits.

    All this means that if the kid has average teen driving skills, the safest thing for him is a fixed-roof car with decent handling that doesn't go too fast--a sedan. If you think he is better than average, then consider maybe allowing him something else, like a Jeep. It is definitely safer than a Samurai, but not as safe as a sedan or even a pick-up.

    One compromise you might consider is a Subaru Outback or Outback Sport. They don't go too fast, can handle some dirt roads and are as safe as a car since it IS a car.
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    wheelsdownwheelsdown Member Posts: 250
    Three or four years ago, Wranglers were a popular choice for young drivers in our area. I still see a lot of young people driving them. I have never seen one operating them in an unsafe manner (doesn't mean it doesn't happen). Also, I have not heard of any accidents involving Wranglers in our local area.

    I have heard about and seen pictures of a roll cage setup you can buy aftermarket for Wranglers that fits just inside the "roll cage" (I don't think DC calls it a roll bar) looking arrangement that comes on the Wrangler. I think the cost is less than $150.00 and installation is fairly easy.

    If you use the search feature, you might be able to find the cage subject and a link or two to sites showing how they held up after rolling two or three times at hiway speeds. I was impressed and have considered getting one.

    I think there may be ways of satisfying your safety concerns. As Tom says, you will have a hard time finding a more fun vehicle to own, whether you just drive it around town or go for heavy duty offroad action.

    Heck, I'm 65 years old, mine makes me feel like a kid.

    Terry
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    greenjeepgreenjeep Member Posts: 15
    The most important thing you can impound into your son's head is WEAR THE SEATBELT no matter what he drives. There may be some instances where it doesn't matter but more often than none it will matter. I became a mom last April 7, 2003. My son is 13 months old and yes I'm dreading the day he becomes 13 years!! because that will be when the real fun starts (i.e, cars, friends, etc. etc.) I can honestly say I understand your mixed feelings about the car situation. By the way you are describing your son, he sounds like a very well mannered responsible young man. Sounds very independent too even at an early age. I know you probably want to surprise him with a vehicle but maybe the two of you should talk this thing over and that way you'll know exactly how he feels and vis versa. That should help you make a decision that works for both of you. Maybe take him to a car lot and let him test drive some of the vehicle you have in mind just to get his reaction. He might just forget about that Samurai or whatever that thing is called. I'm not sure if I've even seen one.

    GreenJeep
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    erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    Toni,

    Roll cages are meant more for protection off-road. Toys by Troy, Spyder, and several others offer both bolt and weld in roll cages. But I don't think any have been tested for DOT approval on the highway. If you want to see one in action offroad, check out the toysbytroy.com website for a video of a gal who needed it. She walked away with only a bump on the head.

    As stated before, trucks, SUV's and Jeeps offer some benefit. But you have to weigh that benefit against the cons (rolling, protection, offroad accidents, etc).

    Tom is right in the fact that some kids that age would do great with a Jeep. I would have loved one too. Hopefully your son can handle one mentally and physically. I just think a vehicle like that for a person of that age introduces too many unpredictables into the equation. They may be able to handle it okay on the road, but they think, "Hey, it's a jeep, it can do anything off-road." and get themselves into the real deep and bad stuff quickly - pushing them WAY beyond their driving ability. That is why my daughter now has a Honda, and I have the Wrangler.

    But ultimately, only you and your son can make the decision based on what we've suggested, but more importantly, what you know about your son know about yourselves.

    -Paul
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    mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    I don't have kids so I've been reluctant to weigh in on this. I think that I would have done well with a TJ when I was 16 - I loved camping and wasn't impressed by speed (that came much later). My niece is the same way - she's driving the family Suburban and while she does it very well, she would prefer something smaller.

    I think Paul's suggestion of the driving school is excellent. I learned a whole bunch when I took a motorcycle driving class - far more than I had learned from the friend who showed me how to ride then sold me his bike.

    Good luck with it!
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    wheelsdownwheelsdown Member Posts: 250
    I don't know if the pictures I saw had a DOT approved roll cage. But it rolled three times at 60 mph. It kept the Jeep off the guy. It is mentioned in message #7558(Nov 2002) I could not get on the site to see if the photo's are still there. They are worth a look if you can get to them.

    Terry
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    tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    I don't know where you live, so I don't know what kind of off roading opportunities your son would have, if he had a Jeep. I can tell you, though, that if you could get him hooked up with an experienced off roader to show him the ropes, he would be starting a wonderful pastime, sport, hobby, whatever ya call it. Off roading is FUN!

    You will find that the friendliness and willingness to help that you found here extends to the Jeep community as a whole. As with anything, there are exceptions, of course, but the vast majority of Jeepers are people that you would be very happy to have your son hang out with.

    You said the boy has a dirt bike, and I guess he has been pretty responsible with that??? It could be that he is a good candidate for a Jeep.

    Just judge his readiness for a Jeep by his personality and his judgement, not by the fact that he is 16 years old. That would be age discrimination. It would be stereotyping. All teenagers are not irresponsible. Not all teenagers lack good judgement.

    None of us in here know your son, so how can we tell you what to do?

    Hope you make the right decision. Maybe he shouldn't get a Jeep, but maybe he should.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
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    sbindleysbindley Member Posts: 28
    How do I remove the windows on my new used Jeep. have the soft topoff, but want to pull the windows off for the summer.

    Thanks much,
    Scott
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    tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Welcome!

    Do you mean the door uppers when you say windows? The piece that has the zippered window in it?

    They are supposed to just pull right out, I think. I have a buddy with a soft top, and it looks to me like he is just pulling up on the door uppers to remove them. His Jeep is a TJ, so maybe it was different on the YJs???

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
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    sbindleysbindley Member Posts: 28
    Yes, the upper doors. I want to be sure before I start yanking on it. It seems that there would be something that secures them in place.

    Thanks.
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    tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    I'm at work now, and I went out to look at my Bud's Jeep. He has the top up but the door uppers removed. Looks like there are three rods that slip down into the bottom part of the door... there are three holes anyway. :)

    My bud is not in his office right now, but I will ask him if there is some kind of release mechanism or some trick to getting the uppers off.

    I really think it's just a matter of grabbing them and pulling up. Seems like I even remember helping him remove those things one time, and that's all I had to do.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?

    P.S. My Bud just confirmed what I said... simply pull straight up on the uppers to remove them.
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    greenjeepgreenjeep Member Posts: 15
    I have a 1980 CJ-7 with the aftermarket Sunrider top with the soft upper and lower doors. Tom's right all you do is pull up. You won't break anything. Mine have 3 prongs on the bottom of the upper door that slide down into holes located on the top of the lower door. Getting them off is the easy part. Re-installing them can be a little tricky. But here's a trick I learned to get them back on rather quickly: While holding the upper door over the lower door tilt the top of the upper door in slightly towards the body of the jeep. This seems to help line up the prongs on the bottom of the upper door with the lower door holes making them go in a lot easier. Hope this helps.
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    goducks1goducks1 Member Posts: 432
    I had a 95 Wrangler with the half doors. to remove the uppers, stand on the outside of the door and pop off the snap in the front. Starting there, pull out the retaining strip all along the door, then lift the top half off. To reinstall, put the three posts back into the holes, pop the strip back into the groove along the door, and resnap.
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    gman1259gman1259 Member Posts: 209
    When my windows are off and the soft top is on (and down) I roll the windows and store them on top of the top. I have seen a product on one of the on line stores that roll your windows in, but I cannot remember where. I will look and post when I can. I have been using sheets to protect the windows, and then I use the protective cover that came with the soft top (the one you are suppose to throw away). I use a bungee cord to keep in place and it seems to work great. I plan to buy the one I saw on the net latter.
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    barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    http://www.thejeep.com/onlinecatalog/rollbag.htm

    I first saw it in the Quadratec catalog (hardcopy) but can't find it in their on-line catalog. I'm thinking about buying it as well.

    Stephen
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    erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    I think you can find em at 4wd and JCWhitney as well. They are nice, but I plan on taking my soft top supports and bows off when I'm running the safari top. The Bestop safari top has the header attached and I can't close the top with that on anyway, so I don't see the point in keeping the top folded in back if I can't use it. :) So I'm taking the whole blessed thing off!

    -Paul
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    Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    Steve_host asked me to stop by. My 17-year-old son has been driving a 1995 Jeep Wrangler for a year now. Well, he can drive when the grades are good. :-) The previous owner had big tires on it, but they were going bald. We put normal sized tires a couple of weeks after the purchase. As a mom, I would put the kabosh on BIG tires. I could not believe how "tippy" the Jeep drove with them. Once we got the regular tires, it felt fine. Another reason we bought this Jeep was because it was a manual shift. Our son was not too thrilled at first, but I think having to concentrate on shifting kept him from hot-rodding. Too much to think about! He complained, but we told him if he learns how to shift he can drive just about anything. Now, he has buddies asking if he will teach them the art of a stick shift. LOL!

    He camps/hikes quite a bit, so he does some offroading, but nothing too scary...at least I don't think so. Safety-wise, I agree with tsjay. It depends a lot of the individual. There are some that will always push the envelope and even if you encased them in bubble-wrap, they will have accidents.
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    weinerweiner Member Posts: 1
    I recently purchased a 99 Wrangler Sahara(52k miles) and remembered what it was like to fall in love again. For as much as I love my jeep I noticed an occasional knocking sound when accelerating. Unfortunatly this was diagnosed as a cracked exhaust manifold which as you all know is very expensive.
    She still drives fine which leads me to ask the stupid question: What happens if I don't get this fixed? and can I get away with not fixing it?

    Thanks for your help
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    g0ldeng0pherg0ldeng0pher Member Posts: 5
    I'm 22, live in Minneapolis, and will be shopping for my first new car soon. For the past seven years, I have been driving a reliable but horribly bland chevy corsica. That just keeled a few weeks ago, so I'm starting to get into the market for something new. I've always loved the Jeep Wrangler, but I'm no expert when it comes to actual function on what I should get, just how I want it to look, so I could use opinions. I doubt I'll ever take it off roading (nowhere really to do that in this flat part of the country) but I like the idea of bigger tires for the asthetics. I don't need the back seat because I'm young/single/without kids, so I'd like to use that as storage. I like the body color flares and the side steps. And the idea of the more powerful engine and a hardtop for the 8 months of the year it (can) snow here. So my main questions are: Which model trim would be best for me? What accessories should I buy from dealer and which should I buy aftermarket (and where should I go for those)? And finally for any of you living in MN or similar climates: is it just stupid of me to even consider a Jeep? Got so much more to ask, but this is a start. Thank you.
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    tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    I'm counting on Mac24, our technical guru, to chime in here, but my response would be that the leak should be fixed.

    I believe running with a cracked manifold can lead to burnt valves.

    Since you are replacing the manifold, you might want to get a header instead of going back with a stock manifold. A header could give you a little better power and gas mileage.

    Welome, weiner, and please stick around.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
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    tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Boilermaker here. :)

    You sound like a candidate for an X model, except they don't have the body color flares. (Think they might have editions of them that do, though. Does the Freedom edition have body colored flares? I'm not up to date on the various special editions.)

    An X will get you the six cylinder engine without your having to pay the price for a Sport model. You cannot get a Dana 44 rear axle, but you said you will not be going offroad anyway. In your climate, anti-lock brakes would be more important than the Dana 44 rear axle anyway.

    I'm a BIG TIME offroader, and I go almost every weekend, but I recognize that a Jeep can be a ton of fun, even on the pavement.

    All I can say is that you are on the right track in thinking Jeep, if it's fun you want! My Thelma Jane was the MOST FUN vehicle I had ever owned, even before taking her offroad for the first time.

    If I were you, I would read a LOT of posts in here. There's some very useful info in this Forum for folks considering a new Jeep.

    http://home.earthlink.net/~tsjay49/

    That's a link to my little website about Turkey Bay, where I go wheelin'. There's stuff in there about Jeeps too, not just about Turkey Bay.

    Good luck, and keep us posted as to how it's going in your quest for a Jeep. Glad you joined us here!

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
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    nolid5nolid5 Member Posts: 148
    Yes, Tom the Freedom edition is a "X" model with body color flares. But comes in limited color choices red, blue, black IIRC
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    guy21guy21 Member Posts: 129
    Exhaust manifolds were a know problem and a TSB (#110798, see NHTSA site) exists. Even purchased used, if yours has failed in the area this TSB covers I would ask a dealer to contact their area rep. and ask if any consideration could be given toward repair.
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    goducks1goducks1 Member Posts: 432
    No kidding. When mine goes I intend to press HARD on this issue if they ever want to see me buy another Chrysler product. Everyone gets it at some point, somehow my '98 has avoided it so far. It was just at the dealer 2 months ago and they couldn't believe it hadn't cracked yet.
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    goducks1goducks1 Member Posts: 432
    Well, I'm a Duck. Nice job you all did on us in the Sun Bowl. Read the old posts here, since this question comes up a lot, but I'll summarize:

    Pros of a Wrangler: unique vehicle, great resale value, very fun especially with the top and doors off, styling is ultra conservative so you never look like you're driving an out-of-date car (similar to M-Benz in that respect), more aftermarket mods than almost any other car, you will never ever get stuck unless you try to, chicks dig them, fantastic 6-cylinder engine available.

    Cons of a Wrangler: LOUD, ride is a bit bouncy but much better than in the past, not much storage space, sucks gas, so-so on reliability.

    As for the hardtop--the new soft tops are worlds better than the old ones and rumored to be about as quiet as a hard top. If I were buying a Jeep now, I'd only get a soft top. But Minnesota might be pushing it. I'd consider getting both tops. It would certainly be cheaper than going aftermarket. As far as factory vs aftermarket options, for city driving the factory ones are great. There are tons of aftermarket ones available all over the place. Check out www.quadratec.com or www.4wd.com . My aftermarket mods are a Rock Gear soft top (I have the factory hard top), Smittybuilt sidesteps/nerfbars, a tow hitch (the Mopar ones are WAY too lightweight for pulling small boats around), yanked out the factory speakers and put in Polks, JVC stereo/CD player, bigger tires (30" BFG A/Ts), and some other ones I can't remember. This is lightweight compared to some of the folks on this board like twylie, tsjay and so on.

    I remember there's a page worth checking out that a Minnesota guy put up called the TJ FAQ at http://www.visi.com/~tam/tjfaq.html
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    gman1259gman1259 Member Posts: 209
    Toni,

    I agree with a lot of what people have said about kids driving. However, I was one of those kids that were taught to drive off road before I got driver’s license. I used to take my Uncles K5 Blazer out in the Indio / Palm Springs area. I even got it stuck in the middle of nowhere a couple of times, and everything came out fine.

    You know your son better then we do. You will know if he is mature enough to handle a Wrangler or not. I have a 13-year-old daughter who is already talking about getting a car. It makes me nerves, but I know when the time comes for her to start driving I would not have a problem with her driving my Wrangler. For me it’s the hot rods the kids build that I would not want my daughter driving. Speed is a real killer; and the Japanese vehicles are vary popular cars for street racers. There are a lot of things you can buy to make Japanese cars go fast.

    On the other hand Wranglers are not built for speed, and with a few mods they can take quite a betting. A friend of ours (my wife’s and mine) has a CJ-7. His son was driving it on the freeway (not speeding) when he fell asleep. He drove into the concrete divider, flipped over and slid about a 100’ on the its side. His son walked away uninjured. They righted the jeep, situated the battery in its correct position, and drove it home; never having to take it in for repair. You can take it from someone who has owned (and loves) Honda cars…if this accident would have happed in an Accord or Civic at a minimum the car would not have been drivable.

    As someone who has had to deal with kids who drive irresponsibility (not mine--yet) I suggest you send your son to a driving school similar to where Eric (I think) took his daughter. They need to learn how to drive defensively and responsibly, and not by trial and error. And tell him when he gets pulled over by the police to say yes sir and no sir, and never lie. Cops usually know the answer to their questions they are asking.
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    mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    weiner - I drove my '98 Wrangler for over a year before I bothered getting the exhaust manifold fixed. It needed to pass the California smog test and I figured it wouldn't pass. By the time I got it repaired, it was very noisy (it kept getting louder and louder). I went with just replacing it with the re-designed one, and haven't had any problems since.

    Hard top vs. soft top - I prefer the hard top, but I think it is more personal preference. The new soft tops don't seem to sag on top as much as the old ones did, so I don't think it would be as bad to get the snow off. The supports for the soft top seem pretty sturdy - I don't think the weight of a large snow fall would bother them. I know the hardtop thinks nothing of 30" in one night - but it won't drive through it (the snow was above the bumper and I got high centered when the wet snow packed under the frame). The heater works quite well in cold weather, so having one in MN is quite practical. In fact, my Sport becomes my daily driver when the roads are bad.
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