Thanks to eveyone for the help. Mac, you are a life saver on this. I had my room mate hold the fan wrench, which was holding the pully bolts and I did a flying jump with a hammer on the nut and it broke lose. Yippee! Ugh. I never, ever thought that was going to come off.
Advertising Fee and Loyalty Mailings are something all dealers get billed for and are therefore a legitimate part of the invoice price.
Document Fees and Customer Service Fees (that one made me smile), are nothing but profit items for the dealer.
However, the easiest way to avoid getting caught up in all that, is to negotiate based on an "out the door" price. In other words, the actual dollar amount you'll pay to drive it away, with the exception of tax, tag, and title (T, T, & T). No doc fees, underseal, paint protectant, nothing at all added on to that price.
Just give the vehicle specification to the dealer, then explain what "out the door" actually means to you (just so you're both on the same page).
I can't find my relevant paper work, but if memory serves, these Advertising and Loyalty fees are those ridiculous items that dealers charge that you more or less have to eat. And over the life of a loan don't really hurt that bad. I think that's what I learned when I asked similar questions way back when. If I'm wrong, please, please correct me so letdolphin doesn't get shafted.
I'd have to look but I think there was even a fueling fee so i could drive off the lot.
I do not, however, recall the loaner vehicle fee. I've got that benefit through Auto Club insurance, so why would I pay DaimChrys for it?
If I can track down the paper work, I will amend / revise.
-Mike
Edit: just saw Mac's reply; always go with Mac's answer over mine.
You've received good answers already, but let me just clarify a little. Mac is right about getting your option list together and make sure you are pricing the VERY SAME Jeep at each dealership. Pretend like you are going to factory order, even if you don't think you really will. Have one dealership work up an order sheet and fax you a copy or go by there and pick it up. Have them give you their best no trade-in "out the door" price. Like Mac said, don't let them include anything over and above the bare minimum to get you "out the door." That means no undercoating, interior protection, free oil changes, nothing.
Take that same sheet or fax that same sheet to other dealerships and let them do the same work-up. You will then have a direct comparison on deals. Apples to apples to apples.
Can't remember if I posted this link for you already, but here it is again, if I did. It's a write-up of my buying experience when I got Thelma Jane.
I'm with ya on full doors. Of course, I have the hard top only, so I had to have full doors. My bud at work has a soft top with half metal doors, and it's a pain in the butt to fool with those zippers, and the plastic is not as transparent as glass, which bothers me too.
If I had a soft top Jeep, I would still want full doors.
There are not 845 posts in here. There are 845 pages of posts in here.
If an awfully high percentage of them are mine, well, I'm just a Jeep Junkie, and I can't help it. I love Jeeps. I believe in Jeeps. I promote Jeeps. You've heard of Johnny Appleseed? Well, I guess I'm "Tommy Jeepseed."
While Tom says the AAS package (with the 30" tires and Ravine wheels) is a sweet deal with the D44, there IS something to consider. If you want to go with larger/wider tires and a lift, the factory wheels can become an issue. Most, if not all of the factory wheels have 5.5" of backspacing, which affects how close or how far out they stick (stance). The 5.5" of backspacing can cause larger tires to rub on the spring perches in the rear or the control arms in front while offroading or possibly even when doing a tight turn.
If you KNOW you are going with larger tires (larger than 31's, say to 32-35"), aftermarket wheels with 4 to 4.5" of backspacing will make your lift kit go much easier.
You CAN go with wheel spacers like the ones here .
Some people say they are not safe, but properly installed, give a 5.5" backspaced wheel 4.25" of effective backspacing and are not an issue. (Some tire installers won't install tires with these on though).
Just some food for thought. I personally have the Canyons (pre-Ravine wheels) and really like em. So if I go with an 11.5" wide (or wider) tire, then I'll need new wheels or wheel spacers.
I don't mind that a large percentage of the posts on this forum are from Tom and Mac. I think you too are largely responsible for the very positive culture of this board and that keeps me here. This is a place where people come and get honest answers to questions even when the answer is 'maybe you shouldn't get a Jeep'.
When I bought my Wrangler no one I knew had one. This board was the place where I got comfortable with the idea. I probably would have bought one anyway but I had a lot more confidence that I knew what I was doing when I finally pulled the trigger.
I think Tom and Mac ought to have a radio show like Click and Clack. You could be "The Jeep Guys" and people like me could call in with our problems and you could solve them for us. Actually, I guess we do that now...
Terry, thanks for the information. I appreciate the response. This will help me in my decision (combined with info. from Tom and Mac) per moving up in tire size. Its interesting how much time you can spend on a Jeep. And money. But life is short and Jeeps are fun. Go Easy, John
I don't think you can do that. If i finance through DC and then refinance, I am technically financing a used vehicle and the rate would be the same or worse.....
I financed my Jeep with a HE Line but when I shopped for regular car loans some of them tied the rate to the age of the vehicle. Even though I was buying a used Jeep (current model year with 1,400 miles) I would have qualified for the 'New' car rate. This kind of thing may vary by state etc. so I'd make a call if I were you just to be sure.
Think of all the accessories you could buy with the $1,000 financing rebate!
My 1999 MT Sahara hit the 85,000 mile mark the other day, so I thought it was time to update everyone on my Jeep Experience. As some of the old-timers(Hi Tom!), may recall, I bought my TJ in May 2002 with @ 40,000 miles on the clock. In the subsequent three years and 45,000 miles my Sahara has been pretty reliable. That said, here's a list of repairs and non-scheduled maintenance that the old beast has needed: 1. Front pads-fitted right after I bought it; 45,000 miles later the replacement pads are only 50% worn. I suspect that the PO was one of those dipsticks who taps the brakes at every curve... 2. Dead gauges-DIY fix 3. Wading pool in passenger footwell-Fitted rubber elbow to A/C drain per D-C TSB 4. Radiator tank seam leak-endemic to German vehicles; replaced with all brass Modine unit. 5. Steering Damper-replaced with NAPA unit 6. OEM Battery-replaced with NAPA Nascar Select 7. Exhaust Manifold-Replaced with Banks Torque Tube 8. Rear brake shoes and cylinders-replaced one month ago As you can see, the failures I've experienced are fairly typical for a TJ of my vintage. I haven't made many modifications; Hella E-Code headlights, MB Quart speakers, and a Bestop Sailcloth Replace-A-Top are about it. Future mods will depend on how much of my Toy Budget is eaten up by my track rat(and my soon-to-be purchased motorcycle). In order of priority they are: 1. Either BFG T/A KOs or Dunlop RVXTs-Goodyear tires are only good for homemade swings or race course crash barriers. 2. Rear Powertrax locker 3. New/used OEM Infinity AM/FM/CD unit 5. Banks Stinger Cat-Back As for service, I change the oil every 7,500 miles using Mobil 1 10W-30 oil and a Mobil 1 filter. While I'm at it I hit a the zerk fitting with Mobil 1 grease. The diffs, T/C, and MT get new synthetic fluids every 60,000 miles-I change the air filter, cap, rotor, wires, and plugs at the same interval. So there you have it-45,000 very happy miles. It looks like I'll keep this one a long time.
After getting my rate locked via the dealership's finace guy (who financed me thru Chase), my Credit Union has been bombarding me with offers to refinance at a significantly lower rate. Haven't done it yet, but plan to soon. Somebody is always willing to undercut the competition to get your money.
Call the credit union or bank of your choice, let them know up front your thoughts about the refi...take the 1000 and run Oh, last thing and I won't say anymore here about loans....there is a minimum you have to finance thru Chrysler and that would be 5000 to get the 1000 back. Lew
Some of you in here are hard core Jeep people and probably already know this but for the new people here is a great and cheap way to add some horse power to your Jeep specially if you have the 4 cyl 2.5 engine. Adding a cold air intake and a throttle body spacer will give about 20-30 extra hp. But if you look in catalogs they cost alot around 200 buck for the cold air intake and 70 for the spacer. Well I found them super cheap on ebay I got a new cold air intake on ebay for 40 bucks and a new throttle body spacer for 20 bucks. The installation only took about 30 minutes and you can feel the difference its great.
Give us the details now. Which top(s)? Full doors or half doors? Color? Top color? Options. Spill yer guts!
That deal sounds very reasonable. I paid $200 over invoice four years ago for my Thelma Jane. My salesman said just the other day that they are selling for $100 over invoice now at their dealership. So, your deal is in line, it sounds like.
Well my International Scout is about to die from extreme rust:( I like the new jeep unlimited, reminds me of the scout. Anyway I am going to start my dealer search and need some help. When you guys say you are getting price quotes $100 etc above invoice is that befoe or after the rebates they are offering?
My 1st quote for an unlimited no options and a 6speed and softy top is 23000. minus 2250 puts the price around 21500. Good deal or not? Thanks and cool board..................
I'm sure you are going to be challenged on that statement that the cold air and the throttle body spacer have added 20 to 30 HP to your engine. Where did you get those numbers? The only way to know for sure is to put that engine on a dynamometer in each configuration and get a direct comparison.
What does the 2.5 L engine have for HP in stock configuration, about 125 or 130? That would be a huge increase in HP to gain 20 to 30, as you have stated.
I don't think even the manufacturers of the cold air systems or those of the throttle body spacers make claims of that kind of increase. The small increase that they do claim is almost entirely at very high RPM.
Jeep Wrangler Sport 4.0L I-6 Engine, 6-Speed Manual, full doors, Light Khaki Metallic paint, Dark Khaki Soft Top, Khaki Cloth High-Back Seats, Front Floor Mats, AAS Tire & Wheel Group-30", Security Group, Locking Fuel Filler Cap
Mfg. Suggested Retail Price 24,810.00
Factory Invoice 22,964.00 (including Advertising) The 200 over invoice I was talking about is a customer service fee, this offers free Loaner when my Jeep in the shop (except oil changes), and I get Free oil changes at the dealership for as long as I own the Jeep.
I will get the $750 rebate & $1000 DC loan, unless they are better when the Jeep arrives. I am SOO excited, I can't wait.
The rebates are applied to the deal you work out with the local dealer. In other words, if the rebate is $1000, and if you get the Jeep for $100 over invoice, then you effectively pay $900 BELOW invoice when all is said and done.
If the deal you are asking about is $100 over invoice, then that's about as good a deal as you can expect. I know some people are buying below invoice, but the impression I get is that such deals are very rare.
I pulled the trigger today on the BFG ATs. Bought 5 of them for $103 a tire. He gave me $120 for the unused GSA spare. Basically got the 5th tire free with the trade
What a great lookin' tire :shades: Gotta take some new pics when sun decides to come back out.
Tom, your gonna love this; As you asked, I let them fill the tires with no input from myself. Here are the numbers: FR-43psi, FL-40psi, BR-45psi, and BL-43psi I dropped them down to 28psi.
It's one thing to over inflate them but, I'm a little irritated that there was a 3psi diff between the two front tires.
I have a Thule Bike rack that mounts through my spare. With a 31" spare + this rack, I had to remove the rubber bumpers that it usually is pressed up against. You guys foresee any issues without these?
Now, if you would like to see for yourself what I am talking about when I say over-inflated tires do not ride and handle well at all, try going up on air pressure to just 35 psi and compare to the way things feel at 28 psi. (Or, did you drive around long enough at the 43 psi to know what it felt like?) I swear, I could tell the difference between 28 psi and 31 psi with those BFG AT's. Same with my current BFG Muds.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
P.S.
Will have to go look to see that rubber stopper you are talking about. I have forgotten where it is and what it looks like. Someone else may have an answer for ya on that.
Are you sure about the $5k to finance. My salesman told me it was $10k, so I would much rather it be 5...
Also, do you know if there is a minimum number of payments you have to make to avoid any pre-payment penalties? I will hopefully be taking delivery tomorrow or friday at the latest and want to be ready for my discussion with the finance guy.
This is the 2nd sales person I have spoke with (today) and he says it's 5000. First one said the same. As for length of time....I'll call in the morning and get that info. I'm located in central PA...Lancaster area. Hang tight. These guys don't have a reason to lie....they don't even have a finance manager...they all take care of the paperwork themselves...they just want the deal. See ya tomorrow........Lew
......I let them fill the tires with no input from myself. Here are the numbers: FR-43psi, FL-40psi, BR-45psi, and BL-43psi......
:P Gotta love those tire pros!
.....I had to remove the rubber bumpers that it usually is pressed up against. You guys foresee any issues without these?
See if you can cut the bumpers down and reuse them. The spare wheel doesn't just hang off the mount, some of the load is supported by the tire being clamped against the door. Without the bumpers it's likely that you'll at least damage the paint on the door, if not the door skin itself.
I have been getting 16 mpg average the last two tanks on my 05 unlimited rubicon. Your correct about the wind, i was driving home on the highway in a very strong headwind today and i could literally watch the gage drop. I guess that driving a brick with no aerodynamics makes a difference, LOL........
Thanks for the info! I live in TX, so I guess there is a chance there is a regional difference, but a 100% difference sounds pretty big to me. I wish there was a place on the web where the incentives were spelled out rather than just telling us to contact the dealer. In the end, if you can pay it off as soon as you want it wont really make much of a difference if you finance 5 or 10k. I just cant wait to get my jeep tomorrow (hopefully!!!)
Well its what they claim if you look in 4 wheel drive or Essentials catalog look at the cold air intake kits and they say a gain up to 20 horse power and for the throttle body spacer its about 10 hp and it says it is dyno tested. It really does make a big differnce. But I also have Magnaflow performance exhaust and that also boost up your hp they claim 8 hp for the exhaust. If you want to argue the hp gains do it with the manufactors not me. Don't kill the messenger.
They always say "up to." Try an Advanced Search from the left for throttle body spacers - Mr Shiftright (aka Shifty) has some more comments about them.
I don't know what it is like now, but when I financed GiGi in September they said I had to pay for it for 3 months before I could refinance if I took the financing rebate. Not really sure it was worth it, but I did it that way. Never asked if there was a minimum amount - I was going to be financing more than that anyway.
Ok John, you're a believer and I won't try to convert you.
However, for anyone else considering this, think about how these things are supposed to work. They supply a greater volume of (supposedly) cooler air than the OE intake assembly can provide. First, the OE system draws from one of the coolest areas under the hood. Second, for a filter to provide greater flow it must filter the air less efficiently............do you want your air filter to pass more contaminants? Third, the OE system must be restricting the engine for the aftermarket system to provide any benefit, and I've yet to see any evidence that it is.
Just because you see amazing claims in print or on TV it doesn't mean they're true. Ads for slimming pills or money making schemes come to mind.
First of all the oe parts do restrict the engine they do it so you can get a less noisy ride. Have you seen the small little whole in the oe intake box its like 1 1/2 inches big. The air intake kit has a 3 inch that goes straight into your throttle body. Im not seeing these claims on TV I am driving them everyday I have both the air intake and throttle body spacer in my Jeep and I am telling you from what I have experienced and it is a big difference. If you don't want he extra hp hey then don't get it but its only like 40 bucks for the air intake on ebay just try it you might like it and if you don't its not like it killed your wallet. I only spent like 60 bucks for the air intake and the throttle body spacer maybe you don't think it got me the 20-30 hp but say it only got me 10 hp, 60 bucks for 10 hp is still cheap.
Imagine a pump that draws the most water it can handle through a garden hose. Now, if you give that pump a four inch pipe to draw from it will still draw the same amount of water as before. Substitute Jeep engine for pump etc. as necessary.
Finally (then I'm done), just because something's cheap doesn't automatically make it a good value. The longer you live, the more apparent that becomes!
Oldscout2: Too bad about your Scout. Love those too. Maybe keep a nameplate or emblem and place it somewhere in the Jeep as a piece of history.
About the money, I worked out my deal for X dollars above invoice, and had that locked. Then, a few weeks later when the Jeep arrived on the lot I sat down with the finance guy (absolutely dreaded it) and that's when we discussed which incentive -- either cash back or low a.p.r. I ultimately chose the cash back. So the X above invoice figure was before factoring incentives.
Laura: Your deal sounds great. Be happy and proud. I wish I woulda paid for unlimited oil changes
If this works for you and you free up only a few HP great, double great if it only cost a few bucks. But, if I took all the figures in all the adds for bolt on goodies that increase hp and gas mileage, I figure that I could be at 400hp with my stock 4.0L and my Jeep would MAKE (create) a 1/4 of a gallon of gas every 3 miles. I think the add's numbers might be a bit optimistic.
Now, as you all recall, I had a huge issue getting the fan/clutch off my water pump. I got a new high speed Flex-a-Lite electric fan. It cost about $280, but I figure that it should free up 10-15hp. Yippee, always wanted to convert to electric. That dang fan/clutch gave all the reason I needed.
Have never tried an electric fan on my Jeep, but if they give ya good cooling, that's great. I know a lot of folks use them. One of those is a possibility for me sometime.
A good fan is very important for wheelin', since we are creeping along at extremely low speed and are idling a good part of the day. We just don't get up enough speed for much air to pass through the radiator without the help of a fan.
Please don't take any of this debate about HP gain personally. You are new here, and you are a very welcome addition to our family. It's OK that we all don't agree on every subject. If you think about it, that would be AWFUL, if we DID agree on everything.
A word of caution, though, about your air intake system. Regardless of whatever gain there may or may not be in performance by using the low restriction air intake system, there is filtration efficiency to be considered. Mac mentioned this in one of his posts. You must be careful that the lower restriction is not gained at the expense of dirt-trapping efficiency. Heck, no filter at all would be the least restriction you could have, but how much dirt would be caught before it reached the engine? So, as you move in the direction of less restriction, you have to be concerned that you are not giving up anything in terms of efficiency of filtration.
Keep your filter cleaned and re-oiled frequently enough to be sure you are getting good dirt-trapping. Check the engine end of your tube once in a while, and look for dust that has gotten past the filter.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
P.S.
We have to CAREFULLY analyze the claims of the manufacturers of these peformance boosting modifications.
HP and torque are functions of RPM. Some of these so-called performance boosters may just "shift the curve," so that the claim they make for addtional HP at a given RPM might be true, but only true for that particular RPM. The HP or torque could be LOWER at other RPM. It shows that very plainly in the Quadratec catalogue where the AEM Brute Force cold air/throttle body spacer system is being advertised. From 3100 to 3700 RPM, according to the graph, the HP is LOWER compared to the stock engine! This is on a 2000 2.5L engine, and this is AEM's own advertisment!
It is the torque graph that shows lower values from 3100 to 3700 RPM with the AEM Brute Force cold air intake/throttle body spacer kit. In my last post I said the HP was lower in that range. HP might be lower too, but the graph was for torque.
Posted this over on Price Paid but not a lot of activity...
Dealer near me has a leftover 2004 Wrangler Unlimited (brand new) priced at $19,999 with a sticker of $25,620 (includes floor mats, stereo upgrade and leather-wrapped steering wheel, cruise, destination charge).
Does this seem inline with what others are paying?
Have always wanted a Wrangler and it seems like a good deal.
Comments
Document Fees and Customer Service Fees (that one made me smile), are nothing but profit items for the dealer.
However, the easiest way to avoid getting caught up in all that, is to negotiate based on an "out the door" price. In other words, the actual dollar amount you'll pay to drive it away, with the exception of tax, tag, and title (T, T, & T). No doc fees, underseal, paint protectant, nothing at all added on to that price.
Just give the vehicle specification to the dealer, then explain what "out the door" actually means to you (just so you're both on the same page).
I'd have to look but I think there was even a fueling fee so i could drive off the lot.
I do not, however, recall the loaner vehicle fee. I've got that benefit through Auto Club insurance, so why would I pay DaimChrys for it?
If I can track down the paper work, I will amend / revise.
-Mike
Edit: just saw Mac's reply; always go with Mac's answer over mine.
-Mike
You've received good answers already, but let me just clarify a little. Mac is right about getting your option list together and make sure you are pricing the VERY SAME Jeep at each dealership. Pretend like you are going to factory order, even if you don't think you really will. Have one dealership work up an order sheet and fax you a copy or go by there and pick it up. Have them give you their best no trade-in "out the door" price. Like Mac said, don't let them include anything over and above the bare minimum to get you "out the door." That means no undercoating, interior protection, free oil changes, nothing.
Take that same sheet or fax that same sheet to other dealerships and let them do the same work-up. You will then have a direct comparison on deals. Apples to apples to apples.
Can't remember if I posted this link for you already, but here it is again, if I did. It's a write-up of my buying experience when I got Thelma Jane.
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~tsjay51/thelma.html
Too bad you can't swing the Rubi, but you will still have a realy nice Jeep with that Sport, especially with the AAS package.
Keep us posted! This is exciting!!!!
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
I'm with ya on full doors. Of course, I have the hard top only, so I had to have full doors. My bud at work has a soft top with half metal doors, and it's a pain in the butt to fool with those zippers, and the plastic is not as transparent as glass, which bothers me too.
If I had a soft top Jeep, I would still want full doors.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
If an awfully high percentage of them are mine, well, I'm just a Jeep Junkie, and I can't help it. I love Jeeps. I believe in Jeeps. I promote Jeeps. You've heard of Johnny Appleseed? Well, I guess I'm "Tommy Jeepseed."
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
If you KNOW you are going with larger tires (larger than 31's, say to 32-35"), aftermarket wheels with 4 to 4.5" of backspacing will make your lift kit go much easier.
You CAN go with wheel spacers like the ones here .
Some people say they are not safe, but properly installed, give a 5.5" backspaced wheel 4.25" of effective backspacing and are not an issue. (Some tire installers won't install tires with these on though).
Just some food for thought. I personally have the Canyons (pre-Ravine wheels) and really like em. So if I go with an 11.5" wide (or wider) tire, then I'll need new wheels or wheel spacers.
-Paul
When I bought my Wrangler no one I knew had one. This board was the place where I got comfortable with the idea. I probably would have bought one anyway but I had a lot more confidence that I knew what I was doing when I finally pulled the trigger.
I think Tom and Mac ought to have a radio show like Click and Clack. You could be "The Jeep Guys" and people like me could call in with our problems and you could solve them for us. Actually, I guess we do that now...
Yours in Jeep Coolness,
Dave
But life and Jeeps are short and fun!
-Paul
I don't think you can do that. If i finance through DC and then refinance, I am technically financing a used vehicle and the rate would be the same or worse.....
Semper Fi,
Mike
[edit] Well, never mind - I see you found that discussion already. Note that Reuel3, Host, used to be with Chrysler Financial).
Steve, Host
Think of all the accessories you could buy with the $1,000 financing rebate!
Yours in Jeep Coolness,
Dave
1. Front pads-fitted right after I bought it; 45,000 miles later the replacement pads are only 50% worn. I suspect that the PO was one of those dipsticks who taps the brakes at every curve...
2. Dead gauges-DIY fix
3. Wading pool in passenger footwell-Fitted rubber elbow to A/C drain per D-C TSB
4. Radiator tank seam leak-endemic to German vehicles; replaced with all brass Modine unit.
5. Steering Damper-replaced with NAPA unit
6. OEM Battery-replaced with NAPA Nascar Select
7. Exhaust Manifold-Replaced with Banks Torque Tube
8. Rear brake shoes and cylinders-replaced one month ago
As you can see, the failures I've experienced are fairly typical for a TJ of my vintage.
I haven't made many modifications; Hella E-Code headlights, MB Quart speakers, and a Bestop Sailcloth Replace-A-Top are about it.
Future mods will depend on how much of my Toy Budget is eaten up by my track rat(and my soon-to-be purchased motorcycle). In order of priority they are:
1. Either BFG T/A KOs or Dunlop RVXTs-Goodyear tires are only good for homemade swings or race course crash barriers.
2. Rear Powertrax locker
3. New/used OEM Infinity AM/FM/CD unit
5. Banks Stinger Cat-Back
As for service, I change the oil every 7,500 miles using Mobil 1 10W-30 oil and a Mobil 1 filter. While I'm at it I hit a the zerk fitting with Mobil 1 grease. The diffs, T/C, and MT get new synthetic fluids every 60,000 miles-I change the air filter, cap, rotor, wires, and plugs at the same interval.
So there you have it-45,000 very happy miles. It looks like I'll keep this one a long time.
-Mike
Call the credit union or bank of your choice, let them know up front your
thoughts about the refi...take the 1000 and run
Oh, last thing and I won't say anymore here about loans....there is a minimum
you have to finance thru Chrysler and that would be 5000 to get the 1000 back.
I ended up paying $200 over invoice which included Oil changes for the life of the Jeep at the dealership
Can't wait ...
Laura
CONGRATULATIONS!
Yeeeeeeeeeehawwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Give us the details now. Which top(s)? Full doors or half doors? Color? Top color? Options. Spill yer guts!
That deal sounds very reasonable. I paid $200 over invoice four years ago for my Thelma Jane. My salesman said just the other day that they are selling for $100 over invoice now at their dealership. So, your deal is in line, it sounds like.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Well my International Scout is about to die from extreme rust:( I like the new jeep unlimited, reminds me of the scout. Anyway I am going to start my dealer search and need some help. When you guys say you are getting price quotes $100 etc above invoice is that befoe or after the rebates they are offering?
My 1st quote for an unlimited no options and a 6speed and softy top is 23000. minus 2250 puts the price around 21500. Good deal or not?
Thanks and cool board..................
I'm sure you are going to be challenged on that statement that the cold air and the throttle body spacer have added 20 to 30 HP to your engine. Where did you get those numbers? The only way to know for sure is to put that engine on a dynamometer in each configuration and get a direct comparison.
What does the 2.5 L engine have for HP in stock configuration, about 125 or 130? That would be a huge increase in HP to gain 20 to 30, as you have stated.
I don't think even the manufacturers of the cold air systems or those of the throttle body spacers make claims of that kind of increase. The small increase that they do claim is almost entirely at very high RPM.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Mfg. Suggested Retail Price 24,810.00
Factory Invoice 22,964.00 (including Advertising)
The 200 over invoice I was talking about is a customer service fee, this offers free Loaner when my Jeep in the shop (except oil changes), and I get Free oil changes at the dealership for as long as I own the Jeep.
I will get the $750 rebate & $1000 DC loan, unless they are better when the Jeep arrives.
I am SOO excited, I can't wait.
Laura
Welcome!
The rebates are applied to the deal you work out with the local dealer. In other words, if the rebate is $1000, and if you get the Jeep for $100 over invoice, then you effectively pay $900 BELOW invoice when all is said and done.
If the deal you are asking about is $100 over invoice, then that's about as good a deal as you can expect. I know some people are buying below invoice, but the impression I get is that such deals are very rare.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Thanks for the details.
Sounds like a great deal and a SUPER nice Jeep!
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Bought 5 of them for $103 a tire. He gave me $120 for the unused GSA spare.
Basically got the 5th tire free with the trade
What a great lookin' tire :shades:
Gotta take some new pics when sun decides to come back out.
Tom, your gonna love this; As you asked, I let them fill the tires with no input from myself. Here are the numbers: FR-43psi, FL-40psi, BR-45psi, and BL-43psi
I dropped them down to 28psi.
It's one thing to over inflate them but,
I'm a little irritated that there was a 3psi diff between the two front tires.
I have a Thule Bike rack that mounts through my spare. With a 31" spare + this rack, I had to remove the rubber bumpers that it usually is pressed up against.
You guys foresee any issues without these?
-Dan
Now, if you would like to see for yourself what I am talking about when I say over-inflated tires do not ride and handle well at all, try going up on air pressure to just 35 psi and compare to the way things feel at 28 psi. (Or, did you drive around long enough at the 43 psi to know what it felt like?) I swear, I could tell the difference between 28 psi and 31 psi with those BFG AT's. Same with my current BFG Muds.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
P.S.
Will have to go look to see that rubber stopper you are talking about. I have forgotten where it is and what it looks like. Someone else may have an answer for ya on that.
Are you sure about the $5k to finance. My salesman told me it was $10k, so I would much rather it be 5...
Also, do you know if there is a minimum number of payments you have to make to avoid any pre-payment penalties? I will hopefully be taking delivery tomorrow or friday at the latest and want to be ready for my discussion with the finance guy.
Jeff
This is the 2nd sales person I have spoke with (today) and he says it's 5000.
First one said the same. As for length of time....I'll call in the morning and
get that info. I'm located in central PA...Lancaster area. Hang tight. These guys
don't have a reason to lie....they don't even have a finance manager...they all
take care of the paperwork themselves...they just want the deal.
See ya tomorrow........Lew
:P Gotta love those tire pros!
.....I had to remove the rubber bumpers that it usually is pressed up against.
You guys foresee any issues without these?
See if you can cut the bumpers down and reuse them. The spare wheel doesn't just hang off the mount, some of the load is supported by the tire being clamped against the door. Without the bumpers it's likely that you'll at least damage the paint on the door, if not the door skin itself.
Jeff
Steve, Host
They didn't have any post for the throttle body spacer but keep checking they put them up they start like at 20 bucks you can't beat that price.
However, for anyone else considering this, think about how these things are supposed to work. They supply a greater volume of (supposedly) cooler air than the OE intake assembly can provide. First, the OE system draws from one of the coolest areas under the hood. Second, for a filter to provide greater flow it must filter the air less efficiently............do you want your air filter to pass more contaminants? Third, the OE system must be restricting the engine for the aftermarket system to provide any benefit, and I've yet to see any evidence that it is.
Just because you see amazing claims in print or on TV it doesn't mean they're true. Ads for slimming pills or money making schemes come to mind.
Finally (then I'm done), just because something's cheap doesn't automatically make it a good value. The longer you live, the more apparent that becomes!
About the money, I worked out my deal for X dollars above invoice, and had that locked. Then, a few weeks later when the Jeep arrived on the lot I sat down with the finance guy (absolutely dreaded it) and that's when we discussed which incentive -- either cash back or low a.p.r. I ultimately chose the cash back. So the X above invoice figure was before factoring incentives.
Laura: Your deal sounds great. Be happy and proud. I wish I woulda paid for unlimited oil changes
-Mike
Now, as you all recall, I had a huge issue getting the fan/clutch off my water pump. I got a new high speed Flex-a-Lite electric fan. It cost about $280, but I figure that it should free up 10-15hp. Yippee, always wanted to convert to electric. That dang fan/clutch gave all the reason I needed.
A good fan is very important for wheelin', since we are creeping along at extremely low speed and are idling a good part of the day. We just don't get up enough speed for much air to pass through the radiator without the help of a fan.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Please don't take any of this debate about HP gain personally. You are new here, and you are a very welcome addition to our family. It's OK that we all don't agree on every subject. If you think about it, that would be AWFUL, if we DID agree on everything.
A word of caution, though, about your air intake system. Regardless of whatever gain there may or may not be in performance by using the low restriction air intake system, there is filtration efficiency to be considered. Mac mentioned this in one of his posts. You must be careful that the lower restriction is not gained at the expense of dirt-trapping efficiency. Heck, no filter at all would be the least restriction you could have, but how much dirt would be caught before it reached the engine? So, as you move in the direction of less restriction, you have to be concerned that you are not giving up anything in terms of efficiency of filtration.
Keep your filter cleaned and re-oiled frequently enough to be sure you are getting good dirt-trapping. Check the engine end of your tube once in a while, and look for dust that has gotten past the filter.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
P.S.
We have to CAREFULLY analyze the claims of the manufacturers of these peformance boosting modifications.
HP and torque are functions of RPM. Some of these so-called performance boosters may just "shift the curve," so that the claim they make for addtional HP at a given RPM might be true, but only true for that particular RPM. The HP or torque could be LOWER at other RPM. It shows that very plainly in the Quadratec catalogue where the AEM Brute Force cold air/throttle body spacer system is being advertised. From 3100 to 3700 RPM, according to the graph, the HP is LOWER compared to the stock engine! This is on a 2000 2.5L engine, and this is AEM's own advertisment!
Tomster
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Dealer near me has a leftover 2004 Wrangler Unlimited (brand new) priced at $19,999 with a sticker of $25,620 (includes floor mats, stereo upgrade and leather-wrapped steering wheel, cruise, destination charge).
Does this seem inline with what others are paying?
Have always wanted a Wrangler and it seems like a good deal.
If you like that Jeep, jump all over it for that price!
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?