8500 miles and not one problem ever!! This is the best all around small suv for the money. The gas mileage is great avg. 22mpg with the most ive gotten 25mpg. Has anyone put on custom rims and tires?? Looking to do so and get rid of the firestones. Im glad i bought the car, i do think the liberty look better, but the escape has it beat in gas mileage, handling, and is very quick. want it to last like my f-150 at 163,000 miles. we shall see. Jethro
MY DEALER WANTS TO CHARGE $250 FOR TV ADVERTISING COST - HE CLAIMS HE CAN PASS IT ON TO ME.IS THIS OKAY TO DO? HE ALSO IS CHARGING ME $700 ABOVE INVOICE-IS THIS GOOD ?-I WAS LOOKING FOR A LOADED CAR XLT?
If the front wheel drive car did ok for you in the past, then I would expect the front wheel drive Escape to do even better given it has slightly higher ground clearance.. I've found that in the deep snow, the limiting factor is more ground clearance than whether you have 4x4 vs 4x2..
I would bet the 4x2 Escape out performs the 4x2 Explorer in the snow mostly because of the fact the Explorer is RWD vs the Escape's FWD.
In my humble opinion. There's simply no comparison when it comes to styling. I'm a designer myself, so these are indeed personal values. If you talk about a cohesive design with symmetry, balance, contrasting features, consistent elements, the Escape has it in spades designed from the ground up as a thoughtful whole. The Liberty, on the other hand, seems concocted from parts of old and parts of somebody's grossed-out imagination. It's too raked, too squished, too round, too flared, too in-between. It simply takes a long time (for me) to get used to its looks -- a natural reaction to "ugliness."
Be happy with your Escape, jefferson1964. It has classic lines sculpted in a modern form.
the FDAF charge is commonly passed on to customers, and around $200 is fairly normal.. But you can negotiate any type of price you want with your dealer.. If you tell the dealer you want to talk about 'out the door price', then negotiate on those terms.. If you want to base your price on invoice, then use those terms.. You are willing to give the dealer x dollars for the vehicle. It's up to the dealer to divide that money to the different departments as it see's fit..
Ok, now that I've said all of that, I usually work from the invoice price.. 700 over invoice isn't bad.. Some dealers will try to charge MSRP, and actually get that. According to Edmunds 'total market value' it appears that 700 over invoice + FDAF + destination + tax/title/tags is about right for a 2001 Escape.
I'm also a designer and I think the Escape is just another me-to vehicle. The Santa Fe was designed in California with input from German designers, and it has a lot of the design ques of the Accura and Lexus SUV's.
OK now you hit a sore spot...I'm considering these two vehicles, among others, as my next car. Yes, the Escape is better-looking than the Liberty, MUCH better proportioned than the Jeep. But I'm having a hard time accepting those strut braces on the rear suspension (flame suit on :P ) - they remind me of bicycle training wheels. OTOH, the Liberty's side profile reminds me too much of a Tracker/Grand Vitara...or as Ken put it, "squished".
I agree as well!!!! But I can't say I hate the looks of the Lib. For me the looks are about a 7 on a scale of 10, with Escape coming in at 9 1/2. Ken's right, the Lib does have a pieced-together look, not a cohesive whole. I also like the looks of the Santa Fe. To me the CR-V is a box on wheels (but not bad-looking), and the new RAV-4's side cladding strip is garish and cheap-looking.
BTW, a friend's husband manages the Mercedes dealership, and the three of us went out to a neighboring town 30 miles away for the day. I got to drive the Mercedes SUV demo, and I was really surprised that I WASN'T impressed!!! First of all, the front seat felt too narrow, with not enough space between the left side of the seat and the armrest. And when I looked over my left shoulder to merge into traffic, I found myself looking back at the side of the vehicle--I couldn't even SEE the traffic! It was very odd.
I'll take my Escape! (It's sitting at the dealer being prepped at this very moment!!!!!!!!!!!!--just got off the truck yesterday)
How are you really doing it? Has your wife hand cuffed you to a large piece of furniture? When my Tribute came in I had to pick it up the day they rolled it off the truck. You are a true person of self restraint, letting it sit on the lot for the better part of a week.
Just picked-up a couple of accessories for my wife's Escape ordered from the 2001 Ford catalog. First item (#32 in catalog) is Carpeted Floor Mats to replace the stock Floor Mats that were stained with grease. These have Escape logo embroidered in the mats, and fit very nicely in the vehicle. They are same color as the mats that were replaced and are better quality. Worth the money. The second item (#31 in catalog) is a carpeted catch-all mat for the rear cargo area. This is put over the existing carpeting to protect it and has raised edges. This also fit nicely,however at $120 was a little pricey. Overall, I was very pleased with the value/quality and would recommend. Has anyone ordered and installed #43 Interior Trim Kit and item #46 Doorstep Scuff Plate Kit? Any feedback?
Ohmygolly! The truth is out! Lovethosesuvs is a GIRL!! That's where my patience comes from!! Or, as my mom always remarks, "Patience is a virtue."
Just kidding--I figure it's better for me to have a clear head and be willing to spend the time on delivery rather than rushing through the process...so, 4 PM Friday it is. I have a lot of things going on at work this week, and besides, I need to have a friend pick me up and take me to the dealership to get my Escape--and she's not available till then anyway.
Yup, I wish I HAD a wife! Someone who could clean the house, run errands, etc. while I'm at work, if I may be so stereotypical!
Just picked up my 2001 Escape from dealer after they had it for over five weeks to replace the transmission. I had 13K miles on it. They had a problem finding a new transmission-too new of a car. It's going back to the dealer tonight as it is still not shifting correctly. It's been in for four recalls, leaky windshield and had the PFE valve replaced.
I'm ready to get my money back and get something else. Dealer says they have heard of no problems with the Escape-guess I just got lucky!
What is the PFE valve? It sounds like your Escape was produced in the wee hours of a Monday morning when all the workers were still hung from the weekend. Did they find anything wrong during the recalls. Mine was recalled for wiper problem, but nothing was wrong. So far have about 8,000 trouble-free miles, no squeaks,no rattles, nothing mechanical. Knock on wood.
Well, I am now at 1200 miles and still no pwoblems. took a nice little drive (only 700 miles round trip) from Hershey,PA to Clearfield,PA up Rt.322. The escape rode like a dream, and also had no problems going over the mountains in State College, PA.
For the Fuel mileage, I had filled up before I left, filled up when I got up there, and filled up when I got back. I was getting 29.4 mpg (all highway with steep grades), and I'm sorry to say but the front bumper / molding wiped out an entire species of bug with how many there where on the front of my escape.
The Escape, IMHO, is a nice, clean-looking truck, but it has no charisma. It's just a mini version of an Explorer with way more recalls. I just recently purchased, IMHO, a much nicer looking truck-a Jeep Liberty. It doesn't look like all the other Suvs out there and it has such a solid-feeling ride, like it is made of one piece of metal, not hundreds, like the Escape. The Escape feels cheap on the inside-everything from the dash, to the door panels, to the seats. I could not do anything to get comfortable in the driver's seat. No matter what adjustment I made, I was not comfortable. And I'm only 5' 10" and 170lbs. And, once on the road, I could not believe the amount of interior noise you get. Where's the sound insulation? The Liberty's interior is much more up scale, especially the LTD's. And as far as road noise is concerned, you feel like you're in a library compared to the Escape. And one final point- How can people go out and buy these Escapes with all those dying engine complaints. Some people have had a couple hundred miles on them and others in the thousands before it's happened. The point is, is that you know the chances are it's going to happen sometime to alot more of these, you just don't know when or where. How can you feel safe with that in the back of your mind?
The last time I checked this is the first year for the Liberty so I think it is way too soon to declare it "A Safer and less Problematic Truck(using your vernacular). I also read the Page "Jeep Liberty Problems", so let's keep things in perspective here.
IMHO, I also drove the Liberty and while I did find the seats more comfortable(I'm 5-8 140), the discomfort you experienced with the Escape was not even close to my feelings.
I hear all of these Wind-Road Noise comments and in the 5 different Escapes that I have driven only 1(and it had the Roof Rack)on backwards had what I consider a problem. I drove a Sport and a Limited Liberty and they both had wind noise around the back door windows. I now own a '95 Pontiac Grand Prix GT and I can tell you it has was more road noise than my 1985 Olds Calais or the Ford Escape and it was the Top of the Line Pontiac Prix in that year.
I will feel as safe in my new 2002 Escape as I would in any other vehicle that has anywhere close to the safety equipment mine will have and also because of the crash tests results that I have read. To me that is safety and this "dying engine" thing you mention is most of the time an inconvenience more than what I consider a true safety factor. My biggest safety concern while drive any vehicle is what some of the other(some are so-called drivers)are doing in addition to driving. By far the BIGGEST safety concern to anyone driving any car(or truck)should be the other cars sharing the same roads with them and not be worrying about some hypothetical incidence they may happen. I like to deal with "what is happening" and keep my mind on the present driving situation. It kind of goes along with my belief of this saying "There are 2 days in the week I never worry about. Those days are YESTERDAY and TOMORROW". You gave you HO and IMHO it is a way overblown opinion on the Escape. Then you tooted your horn about all the positive virtues and merits about a vehicle that has been on the market only a couple months at best.
And to answer your question "- How can people go out and buy these Escapes with all those dying engine complaints?" EASY!!
I know by nature that the chances of any internal combustion engine dying for a myriad of reasons starting with the fuel system, electrical system, computer system,just to name a few are always present. I've owned probably 20 New cars in my lifetime at this point and if the engine dies at precisely the wrong time it could be a very serious safety factor, but most of the time it is more an irritation. I'll feel safe and happy and also bank the extra $2600 it would have cost me to buy (a comparable Liberty)SUV.
STYLING Of course styling preferences are personal. Most designers would agree, however, that good design has an element of TIME. Does it have classic lines that will look good many years later? Or is it current fashion -- or trying to be different? Will your Liberty look awkward and stupid ten years later? Will your Sante Fe stand out like a sore thumb? Only time will tell. Remember the GMC Pacer? What do you think about the Pontiac Aztek?
COMFORT The leather seats are admittedly firm. They're stiff, cheap-looking and lacking lateral support. But I'm 6'0" 170 and don't get tired driving long stints in it. Good enough, I say. From previous posts it seems *larger* bodies fit the Escape better.
QUALITY Ford is obviously not the best car manufacturer producing the most reliable cars. They are, however, in the upper half. My Escape is my first Ford, so I'm no expert. So far, it has been solid, rattle-free and perfect in every detail. It was probably constructed on a sunny clear Wednesday morning. ;-)
Jeep, on the other hand, is always rated low in general quality of construction by Consumer Reports, among other impartial observers. Their electrical system is very problematic. Watch out! In general I would bet on Ford rather than Jeep when it comes to construction quality.
The bottom line is that I feel smart, proud and very capable in my Ford Escape any day of the week, anywhere I go, with any number of passengers, any amount of cargo -- in any traffic condition. That's my highest recommendation.
Yeah, those lower suspension arms are a bit pronounced from the rear. I try to think of it as just visual exposure of structure. Not too bad, really. Not "bicycle training wheels." :-)
From a visual standpoint they look okay because of the Escape's masculine, stocky appearance. Its wide stance, long wheel base and short overhangs make it seem very "capable." So having large buttresses at the rear wheels seem to PROVE it. And it does -- handling is great! I go over wobbly roads without losing composure -- following Xterras and old Explorers with leaf-spring rear suspensions bouncing up and down.
The Honda CRV is similar, but on that vehicle it looks more like walking stilts because the CRV body looks lightweight and the wheels are smaller.
the hummer has a similar downward slopping structure on the rear suspension. Drastically different from the Escape's and I know not to mess with that one.
I'm through debating the merits and faults of the Santa Fe, Liberty and Escape. I drove a Pathfinder LE last night, and after getting the dealer down to $500 below invoice with 0.9% financing, I'm sold. The 2001 has a 240 HP Maxima engine and tranny, and there is no equal in the SUV category. Drive one and find out for yourself!
Glad you made your selection.. To be honest, I'm suprised you went with a mid-sized SUV. Some of my co-workers have that and really like it.. It is a bit bigger in the cargo area and alot heavier than the Escape. Performance wise, the Escape will definatly out accelerate, and handle better on the road than the Pathfinder. The Pathfinder will have a big advantage off road though. What turned me off was that even at $500 under invoice the Pathfinder is still $8500 more than the Escape..
Thers no way the Escape will out accelerate the Pathfinder. The PF does 0-60 in 7.5 seconds, and is always the top rated SUV in comparison tests for handling.
...and would have bought one except that the cargo space seemed a bit small for a family of four on weekend trips. I think the Jeep Liberty looks like an Owl...Enjoy your Escapes!!
But the Escape and mini-suv's are in a different class..
Edmunds quote: ..we gathered up eight of the best-selling trucks in the mid-sized category (defined by Edmunds.com as having 70-90 cubic feet of cargo space with the rear seat folded) selling for under $40,000 MSRP: the Chevy Blazer, the Dodge Durango, the Ford Explorer, the Honda Passport, the Jeep Grand Cherokee, the Mitsubishi Montero Sport, the Nissan Pathfinder and the Toyota 4Runner.
I think you are right though that the Pathfinder is a bit quicker. The Escape does 0-60 in about 8.8, whereas Edmunds rated the Pathfinder acceleration at 8.4 seconds, not the 7.5 that you claimed). So I was probably wrong in stating that the Escape will out accelerate the Pathfinder, but is is common for the smaller and signficantly lighter vehicle to handle better.. (i'll give you acceleration, but 700lbs says the Escape will handle better).
The Nissan XTerra is the direct competitor to the Escape
Another Edmunds quote: In 1999, Edmunds.com compared six mini SUVs (Mini-SUV Comparison Test). The Xterra eked out a win over the CR-V. If the Escape was around for that test, it could have quite possibly won due to its advantages in horsepower, interior space and handling ability. But to really find out, the world will have to wait for another Edmunds.com comparison test.
(Sorry if were off topic folks, talking about other SUV's that aren't even in the same class as the Escape)
The PF the article talks about in acceleration of 8.4 is not the new PF with the 240hp engine. The new PF may very well do 0-60 in 7-5.
bjbird .. . Please try not to double post the same message in different forums, there is no need as most of us that read the Escape forum read the Tribute, the Problems with, and, the Escape/Tribute vs the rest of the mini-utes forum. Congrads on finding the SUV for you at a price you can be happy about.
that may be true about jeep quality in the past, but the liberty is built in a brand new plant with supposedly the best of the best practices from the daimler group. most who have seen them & test drove one all say the same thing - its solid. one look inside a limited liberty model & you can easily see the german influence as well.
If I had to pin down one thing that turned me off about the Liberty, it would have to be the front-end design. It's either too "cute" or too "retro" or just too dang oddball. It's like wearing round-frame glasses. I can never do that (not that I wear any glasses!). Everything else may be fine about the Liberty: quality, power, performance, roominess, price, comfort, reliability, etc.
both the Liberty and the new factory that it is built in were designed well before the Germans bought Chrysler/Jeep. The Escape is also built in a new state of the art factory, just outside K.C.
No contest, my late lamented Mazda Tribute, 5000 miles and traded, is not match for the quality of the Libery. Just thought you like to hear this from someone who has owned both. yes the Tribscape does better in some areas but if I had to do it all over again I still get a Liberty, no fuel smell among other things. I too though it was ugly at first, once you see it in person it grows on you. Hey spend all your time at the dealer see if I care.
I just ordered my 2002 Escape yesterday and it is a fully loaded XLT 4X4 Premium minus the Ziebert. Only cost $25,650. I got the True Blue which took about 5 days to figure out what color it really is, since I could not find it anywhere on the web and my dealer doesn't have any new brochures of the new model yet. Delivery date is set for October 25. May seem like a long time away but I won't be back in the country until Oct 20. There has been a change in my travel plans I'll be driving it from Idaho to CA instead of from Seattle to Idaho to CA. No big deal. But it does look like I'll be pulling a trailer. Should I wait on the trailer until I have surpassed a certain amount of mileage or would it be ok for the truck?
Since you mentioned IYHO about the Escapes possible safety problems when you referred to the "alleged engine dying" problem with some Escapes. Well it now my turn to tell you what to watch out for with the Liberty.
Check your local paper or watch the National News. Big stories today on the deaths and injuries caused by the Jeep Grand Cherokee. Hundreds if not more of these incidents. So if you buy a Liberty remember your statement "how could anyone feel safe with that in the back of their minds". Now I will suggest to you if you get a Liberty(which conceivably could have the same Grand Cherokee problem)to keep in the "back of your mind" DO NOT WALK, STAND or do anything in the rear of your Liberty as it may suddenly decide to go into reverse. Now that IS a SERIOUS Safety problem. With the choice of an engine dying or my car possibly running me or someone else over with the reverse problem, I'll take my safety chances with a possible engine quitting. "How could anyone possibly feel safe with knowing in the back of their minds not to get anywhere close to The Back of their Liberty"?
In two or three years I'll be giving up my 2001 Escape for a 2003 (or 2004) Escape HEV!
Hopefully the power, handling and "fun to drive" qualities won't change for the worse. Hopefully a manual tranny will be offered. I would gladly pay a bit more for an environmentally-friendly super ECONOMY 4x4 s.u.v. What a profound concept!
And the best thing (I'm absolutely drooling over this one) is that STYLING will remain the same! Can't ask for anything more.
I dont think the quality and toughness of the 2 are even close. go see a liberty & you will see what I mean. stand on the side of your escape by the drivers door and try to rock the car. then try the same on the liberty. you can just feel how much more solid the liberty is. also RE: the post on jeep GC deaths. you refer to the current transmission problem effecting 1995-1999 models only. and yes I agree that a recall is warranted in this case.
Believe me. My vehicle, like many others with absolutely NO PROBLEM, was probably constructed after the "learning curve" at the factory. It's as solid as a billet of aluminum, totally rattle-free, and every piece of plastic is secure. I'm reading all those posts with horror and dread -- and wondering what I'm doing right to remain trouble-free. Well, nothing! It just came from the factory this way!
I noticed the rigid unibody construction on the Escape immediately when I first drove it -- it feels SOLID at any speed.
Your rocking test of the vehicle at a standstill only checks the softness of the springs and shocks. But even with that test, my Escape feels solid. I've jumped on all door sills reaching the roof, and there's nothing but a solid feel.
Certainly when I encounter my first problem I'll post it here, but with over 3,500mi so far it's been trouble-free.
Well, Friday finally came, and I picked up my new Escape yesterday!!!!!!!!!! Also got 1/2 percent less on the interest rate through Ford Credit, which will match any bank I've researched. Went X-plan too.
The vehicle is absolutely beautiful (got the Dark Highland Green)! And as Ken accurately remarked, it IS solid. I think one reason Liberty lovers think the Lib is more solid is because it is so much heavier--and therefore not nearly as good on the mileage.
I saw a lot of turned heads between yesterday and today. I have already used it to take my bike into the shop; then I stopped by Menard's to buy an 8-foot ladder. On my way out of Mendard's, the guys driving the Explorer I parked next to had a lot of admiring comments about the Escape. I noted there isn't much size difference between the two.
The sunroof is awesome, as are the stereo system and the in-dash CD changer. What I hadn't noticed in the test drive are all the nooks and crannies for storage. The little pocket in the armrest is perfect for Chapstick, and there are pockets in the doors. And a CAVERNOUS storage area between the front seats--big enough for wipes, a box of Kleenex, and CD's, as well as a separate place in the cover of it for maps. There are lots of other storage pockets as well, and a place on the roof by the windshield for the garage door opener (also fits a pair of sunglasses nicely). There's also a drawer under the front passenger seat that's big enough for a phone book (I always carry one--comes in so handy!). These little touches really make a difference.
Handling is great with the peppy, ready engine. Turns and braking are crisp.
I already bought a plastic tarp for the back (Menard's has them in parchment--matches the interior nicely). I have folded down the back seats and spread the tarp out, to also cover the folded-down seats. Since I have a dog, I want to minimize the dog hair. I had him jump into it, and he laid down right away and looked happy as a clam. Had to get a picture of that! If this tarp works out, I may forego the cargo liner, since it A) probably isn't long enough to extend all the way to and over the folded seats with the back seats down, and wouldn't be flexible in case I needed to fold the seats up when having several people in the car. Of course, it doesn't look as nice as a cargo liner would, but the color matches and I have it spread out flat and tucked under the edges where it would tuck, so it looks OK.
That's a truly unfair, misinformed statement. The Grand Cherokee's transmission that was recalled is a completely different tranny than the Liberty has. The GC had that tranny exclusively from 1995 to 1999 only. Maybe we should not buy the Escape because the Explorer had such and such a problem? See how silly it sounds? The gas smell/ engine dying is unique to the Escape. If you're gonna trash talk at least get your facts straight.
One man's trash is another man's gold. Some call it Flaming, but I guess you prefer to use the word "trash".
I don't see anywhere where I mentioned that what I said were FACTS,but prefaced my reply with "IMHO". I mentioned for that individual to watch the local or national news or read the local paper.Unless you missed the part where I said "IMHO" that's exactly what it was, MY OPINIION.
Unless I am mistaken there was another factor involved with the Explorer and I think it was spelled Firestone. I'm assuming you are either an engineer for Chrysler or a Chrysler mechanic as you seem to know(for a fact)that the Liberty has a different "tranny". Shoot some parts numbers at me if you want me to believe you know the facts about all of the Jeep model "trannys".Back in the '50's those of us that actually drove race cars liked to call them a "gear box".The "wannabe racers" back then called them "a tranny".
See how silly you sound not bothering to notice I said "IMHO" and you by mistake made it look like I said I was stating facts. Wake up man, whoever the person was that I was talking to certainly wasn't you and if they feel like they were Flamed(gonna talk trash using your vernacular)I am sure they don't need you as their mouthpiece.
Congrats on the new Escape, love! DHG is a gorgeous color. And sunroof, too? I wish I had that. Mine is a fairly loaded white XLT without the sunroof (moonroof). Now you gotta wash and wax it for the first time -- unless the dealership did that for you? The roof takes A LOT of wax! But it stops quickly at the cladding. :-)
Have you seen them? Isuzu VehiCROSS vehicles (what ARE they?) are price around $30k. They're offered with 3.5L V6, 215HP, 230LB-FT engines getting 15/19MPG mileage. Mostly two-door beasts. There's a huge bulge on its back, the shape of a spare tire -- but it's an *interior* spare mount! Or is it? I wonder how easily cargo goes in and out the back door.
The Escape looks rather sedate in comparison. Talk about Styling with a capital S! Has anybody considered it? Is it any good? No wonder it's selling like hot cakes (jalapeno-spiced hot cakes, that is).
Now THIS COMPARISON is more like it! The BMW may have one clear advantage: prestige. But you'll have to pay for it. Performance-wise, I think the Escape beats it with the weight-savings factor, no? The V6 beemer at 225HP is still a hefty 4500lbs -- compared to the 201HP V6 Escape at 3000lbs. And those fat tires... do SUVs hydroplane?
One other thing: the beemer has a 5-speed manual tranny with the V6. Gosh darn! Now THAT is surely a bonus. It's only $16k more than the top Escape model. I wonder if most of that is import tariff?
If you bought 2 Escapes instead of 1 Excursion 7.3L 430A limited, you would: 1) save over $4,000 -- enough to buy two trailers for the Escapes 2) reduce total weight sitting on your driveway -- the Excursion is over 7,700lbs 3) carry more passengers -- ten in the two vs. nine in the Excursion
But if you bought the Excursion, you would: 1) fill your diesel tank for about $80 each time -- takes only about half an hour 2) NOT fit inside most garages -- it's 19'-11" long WITHOUT accessories (garages= 20') 3) still be overshadowed by the AM General Hummer wherever you go. Shucks.
I noticed a small spot on the hood of my Escape (like a bird dropping that didn't get completely cleaned), after I bought it but right before I was driving it off the lot.. I mentioned it to the salesperson and he said just bring it in the next day (it was about 11pm) and he'll have the detail guy get that out..
I was there at 9am the next day, and they did the hood and had me go inspect it, then he asked if I'd like the whole vehicle waxed.. I said 'go for it'.
One thing they mentioned is to avoid getting any wax on the cladding, and if you do, wipe if off quickly..
Just so happens my other vehicle is an 00' F250 SuperDuty.. (which is the platform the Excursion is build from).. which fits in my garage..
I liked your post.. To be fair to the Excursion: It would take 4 Escapes to tow as much as the Excursion.. umm, thats all I can think of.. I guess I lose..
Comments
want it to last like my f-150 at 163,000 miles. we shall see. Jethro
I would bet the 4x2 Escape out performs the 4x2 Explorer in the snow mostly because of the fact the Explorer is RWD vs the Escape's FWD.
Be happy with your Escape, jefferson1964. It has classic lines sculpted in a modern form.
Just my opinion, of course.
If you tell the dealer you want to talk about 'out the door price', then negotiate on those terms.. If you want to base your price on invoice, then use those terms.. You are willing to give the dealer x dollars for the vehicle. It's up to the dealer to divide that money to the different departments as it see's fit..
Ok, now that I've said all of that, I usually work from the invoice price.. 700 over invoice isn't bad.. Some dealers will try to charge MSRP, and actually get that.
According to Edmunds 'total market value' it appears that 700 over invoice + FDAF + destination + tax/title/tags is about right for a 2001 Escape.
braces on the rear suspension (flame suit on :P )
- they remind me of bicycle training wheels. OTOH, the Liberty's side profile reminds me too much of a Tracker/Grand Vitara...or as Ken put it,
"squished".
J.P.
BTW, a friend's husband manages the Mercedes dealership, and the three of us went out to a neighboring town 30 miles away for the day. I got to drive the Mercedes SUV demo, and I was really surprised that I WASN'T impressed!!! First of all, the front seat felt too narrow, with not enough space between the left side of the seat and the armrest. And when I looked over my left shoulder to merge into traffic, I found myself looking back at the side of the vehicle--I couldn't even SEE the traffic! It was very odd.
I'll take my Escape! (It's sitting at the dealer being prepped at this very moment!!!!!!!!!!!!--just got off the truck yesterday)
Just kidding--I figure it's better for me to have a clear head and be willing to spend the time on delivery rather than rushing through the process...so, 4 PM Friday it is. I have a lot of things going on at work this week, and besides, I need to have a friend pick me up and take me to the dealership to get my Escape--and she's not available till then anyway.
Yup, I wish I HAD a wife! Someone who could clean the house, run errands, etc. while I'm at work, if I may be so stereotypical!
I'm ready to get my money back and get something else. Dealer says they have heard of no problems with the Escape-guess I just got lucky!
Hope you have better luck with the 2002 model!
When did you purchase your Escape?
For the Fuel mileage, I had filled up before I left, filled up when I got up there, and filled up when I got back. I was getting 29.4 mpg (all highway with steep grades), and I'm sorry to say but the front bumper / molding wiped out an entire species of bug with how many there where on the front of my escape.
Odie
IMHO, I also drove the Liberty and while I did find the seats more comfortable(I'm 5-8 140), the discomfort you experienced with the Escape was not even close to my feelings.
I hear all of these Wind-Road Noise comments and in the 5 different Escapes that I have driven only 1(and it had the Roof Rack)on backwards had what I consider a problem. I drove a Sport and a Limited Liberty and they both had wind noise around the back door windows. I now own a '95 Pontiac Grand Prix GT and I can tell you it has was more road noise than my 1985 Olds Calais or the Ford Escape and it was the Top of the Line Pontiac Prix in that year.
I will feel as safe in my new 2002 Escape as I would in any other vehicle that has anywhere close to the safety equipment mine will have and also because of the crash tests results that I have read. To me that is safety and this "dying engine" thing you mention is most of the time an inconvenience more than what I consider a true safety factor. My biggest safety concern while drive any vehicle is what some of the other(some are so-called drivers)are doing in addition to driving. By far the BIGGEST safety concern to anyone driving any car(or truck)should be the other cars sharing the same roads with them and not be worrying about some hypothetical incidence they may happen. I like to deal with "what is happening" and keep my mind on the present driving situation. It kind of goes along with my belief of this saying "There are 2 days in the week I never worry about. Those days are YESTERDAY and TOMORROW".
You gave you HO and IMHO it is a way overblown opinion on the Escape. Then you tooted your horn about all the positive virtues and merits about a vehicle that has been on the market only a couple months at best.
And to answer your question "- How can people go out and buy these Escapes with all those dying engine complaints?" EASY!!
I know by nature that the chances of any internal combustion engine dying for a myriad of reasons starting with the fuel system, electrical system, computer system,just to name a few are always present.
I've owned probably 20 New cars in my lifetime at this point and if the engine dies at precisely the wrong time it could be a very serious safety factor, but most of the time it is more an irritation.
I'll feel safe and happy and also bank the extra $2600 it would have cost me to buy (a comparable Liberty)SUV.
Of course styling preferences are personal. Most designers would agree, however, that good design has an element of TIME. Does it have classic lines that will look good many years later? Or is it current fashion -- or trying to be different? Will your Liberty look awkward and stupid ten years later? Will your Sante Fe stand out like a sore thumb? Only time will tell. Remember the GMC Pacer? What do you think about the Pontiac Aztek?
COMFORT
The leather seats are admittedly firm. They're stiff, cheap-looking and lacking lateral support. But I'm 6'0" 170 and don't get tired driving long stints in it. Good enough, I say. From previous posts it seems *larger* bodies fit the Escape better.
QUALITY
Ford is obviously not the best car manufacturer producing the most reliable cars. They are, however, in the upper half. My Escape is my first Ford, so I'm no expert. So far, it has been solid, rattle-free and perfect in every detail. It was probably constructed on a sunny clear Wednesday morning. ;-)
Jeep, on the other hand, is always rated low in general quality of construction by Consumer Reports, among other impartial observers. Their electrical system is very problematic. Watch out! In general I would bet on Ford rather than Jeep when it comes to construction quality.
The bottom line is that I feel smart, proud and very capable in my Ford Escape any day of the week, anywhere I go, with any number of passengers, any amount of cargo -- in any traffic condition. That's my highest recommendation.
From a visual standpoint they look okay because of the Escape's masculine, stocky appearance. Its wide stance, long wheel base and short overhangs make it seem very "capable." So having large buttresses at the rear wheels seem to PROVE it. And it does -- handling is great! I go over wobbly roads without losing composure -- following Xterras and old Explorers with leaf-spring rear suspensions bouncing up and down.
The Honda CRV is similar, but on that vehicle it looks more like walking stilts because the CRV body looks lightweight and the wheels are smaller.
It's actually a geared hub design at all four wheels -- the ultimate full suspension full drive system. Here's one of my favorite sites:
http://www.howstuffworks.com/four-wheel-drive.htm
To be honest, I'm suprised you went with a mid-sized SUV. Some of my co-workers have that and really like it.. It is a bit bigger in the cargo area and alot heavier than the Escape. Performance wise, the Escape will definatly out accelerate, and handle better on the road than the Pathfinder. The Pathfinder will have a big advantage off road though.
What turned me off was that even at $500 under invoice the Pathfinder is still $8500 more than the Escape..
Edmunds quote:
..we gathered up eight of the best-selling trucks in the mid-sized category (defined by Edmunds.com as having 70-90 cubic feet of cargo space with the rear seat folded) selling for under $40,000 MSRP: the Chevy Blazer, the Dodge Durango, the Ford Explorer, the Honda Passport, the Jeep Grand Cherokee, the Mitsubishi Montero Sport, the Nissan Pathfinder and the Toyota 4Runner.
I think you are right though that the Pathfinder is a bit quicker. The Escape does 0-60 in about 8.8, whereas Edmunds rated the Pathfinder acceleration at 8.4 seconds, not the 7.5 that you claimed).
So I was probably wrong in stating that the Escape will out accelerate the Pathfinder, but is is common for the smaller and signficantly lighter vehicle to handle better.. (i'll give you acceleration, but 700lbs says the Escape will handle better).
The Nissan XTerra is the direct competitor to the Escape
Another Edmunds quote:
In 1999, Edmunds.com compared six mini SUVs (Mini-SUV Comparison Test). The Xterra eked out a win over the CR-V. If the Escape was around for that test, it could have quite possibly won due to its advantages in horsepower, interior space and handling ability. But to really find out, the world will have to wait for another Edmunds.com comparison test.
(Sorry if were off topic folks, talking about other SUV's that aren't even in the same class as the Escape)
bjbird .. . Please try not to double post the same message in different forums, there is no need as most of us that read the Escape forum read the Tribute, the Problems with, and, the Escape/Tribute vs the rest of the mini-utes forum. Congrads on finding the SUV for you at a price you can be happy about.
http://www.pbs.org/mpt/motorweek/driverschoice.shtml
It's too bad -- I will never like it.
Steve.
Check your local paper or watch the National News. Big stories today on the deaths and injuries caused by the Jeep Grand Cherokee. Hundreds if not more of these incidents.
So if you buy a Liberty remember your statement "how could anyone feel safe with that in the back of their minds". Now I will suggest to you if you get a Liberty(which conceivably could have the same Grand Cherokee problem)to keep in the "back of your mind" DO NOT WALK, STAND or do anything in the rear of your Liberty as it may suddenly decide to go into reverse.
Now that IS a SERIOUS Safety problem. With the choice of an engine dying or my car possibly running me or someone else over with the reverse problem, I'll take my safety chances with a possible engine quitting.
"How could anyone possibly feel safe with knowing in the back of their minds not to get anywhere close to The Back of their Liberty"?
Hopefully the power, handling and "fun to drive" qualities won't change for the worse. Hopefully a manual tranny will be offered. I would gladly pay a bit more for an environmentally-friendly super ECONOMY 4x4 s.u.v. What a profound concept!
And the best thing (I'm absolutely drooling over this one) is that STYLING will remain the same! Can't ask for anything more.
http://www.escapehev.com/index.asp
http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/features/2001/July/200007_5best_fordescape.xml
By the way, Motorweek's car-of-the-month is not the same as their annual top picks.
also RE: the post on jeep GC deaths. you refer to the current transmission problem effecting 1995-1999 models only. and yes I agree that a recall is warranted in this case.
I noticed the rigid unibody construction on the Escape immediately when I first drove it -- it feels SOLID at any speed.
Your rocking test of the vehicle at a standstill only checks the softness of the springs and shocks. But even with that test, my Escape feels solid. I've jumped on all door sills reaching the roof, and there's nothing but a solid feel.
Certainly when I encounter my first problem I'll post it here, but with over 3,500mi so far it's been trouble-free.
The vehicle is absolutely beautiful (got the Dark Highland Green)! And as Ken accurately remarked, it IS solid. I think one reason Liberty lovers think the Lib is more solid is because it is so much heavier--and therefore not nearly as good on the mileage.
I saw a lot of turned heads between yesterday and today. I have already used it to take my bike into the shop; then I stopped by Menard's to buy an 8-foot ladder. On my way out of Mendard's, the guys driving the Explorer I parked next to had a lot of admiring comments about the Escape. I noted there isn't much size difference between the two.
The sunroof is awesome, as are the stereo system and the in-dash CD changer. What I hadn't noticed in the test drive are all the nooks and crannies for storage. The little pocket in the armrest is perfect for Chapstick, and there are pockets in the doors. And a CAVERNOUS storage area between the front seats--big enough for wipes, a box of Kleenex, and CD's, as well as a separate place in the cover of it for maps. There are lots of other storage pockets as well, and a place on the roof by the windshield for the garage door opener (also fits a pair of sunglasses nicely). There's also a drawer under the front passenger seat that's big enough for a phone book (I always carry one--comes in so handy!). These little touches really make a difference.
Handling is great with the peppy, ready engine. Turns and braking are crisp.
I already bought a plastic tarp for the back (Menard's has them in parchment--matches the interior nicely). I have folded down the back seats and spread the tarp out, to also cover the folded-down seats. Since I have a dog, I want to minimize the dog hair. I had him jump into it, and he laid down right away and looked happy as a clam. Had to get a picture of that! If this tarp works out, I may forego the cargo liner, since it A) probably isn't long enough to extend all the way to and over the folded seats with the back seats down, and
I highly recommend the Escape!
Tony
Some call it Flaming, but I guess you prefer to use the word "trash".
I don't see anywhere where I mentioned that what I said were FACTS,but prefaced my reply with "IMHO". I mentioned for that individual to watch the local or national news or read the local paper.Unless you missed the part where I said "IMHO" that's exactly what it was, MY OPINIION.
Unless I am mistaken there was another factor involved with the Explorer and I think it was spelled Firestone. I'm assuming you are either an engineer for Chrysler or a Chrysler mechanic as you seem to know(for a fact)that the Liberty has a different "tranny". Shoot some parts numbers at me if you want me to believe you know the facts about all of the Jeep model "trannys".Back in the '50's those of us that actually drove race cars liked to call them a "gear box".The "wannabe racers" back then called them "a tranny".
See how silly you sound not bothering to notice I said "IMHO" and you by mistake made it look like I said I was stating facts. Wake up man, whoever the person was that I was talking to certainly wasn't you and if they feel like they were Flamed(gonna talk trash using your vernacular)I am sure they don't need you as their mouthpiece.
The Escape looks rather sedate in comparison. Talk about Styling with a capital S! Has anybody considered it? Is it any good? No wonder it's selling like hot cakes (jalapeno-spiced hot cakes, that is).
One other thing: the beemer has a 5-speed manual tranny with the V6. Gosh darn! Now THAT is surely a bonus. It's only $16k more than the top Escape model. I wonder if most of that is import tariff?
1) save over $4,000 -- enough to buy two trailers for the Escapes
2) reduce total weight sitting on your driveway -- the Excursion is over 7,700lbs
3) carry more passengers -- ten in the two vs. nine in the Excursion
But if you bought the Excursion, you would:
1) fill your diesel tank for about $80 each time -- takes only about half an hour
2) NOT fit inside most garages -- it's 19'-11" long WITHOUT accessories (garages= 20')
3) still be overshadowed by the AM General Hummer wherever you go. Shucks.
I was there at 9am the next day, and they did the hood and had me go inspect it, then he asked if I'd like the whole vehicle waxed.. I said 'go for it'.
One thing they mentioned is to avoid getting any wax on the cladding, and if you do, wipe if off quickly..
I liked your post..
To be fair to the Excursion:
It would take 4 Escapes to tow as much as the Excursion.. umm, thats all I can think of.. I guess I lose..