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Comments
I'll be much better once I've had a few beers.
TC
Now I would like to know on a ax listing $40601 what is considered a good price.
Thanks
TC
Drew
Host
Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
I know what the estimated miles per gallon is listed at, but in reality what are you getting?
Thanks
I can't comment on the MPG since we haven't even gone through a full tank yet!
Good luck,
TC
$37600 because it's slow? You need another dealer, this one has an attitude.
Do exactly what I say and see the results: Call another dealer within a 100 miles of you. Tell him that you already got a price of $37,000 for that model from the first dealer. Tell him you heard his dealership got recommended by a friend, and that you'd rather do business with him if he could at least meet the price.
I guarantee he'll meet it. You can then turn around and throw that in the first dealers face to see if he'll budge.
I don't mean to sound rough, but the old "I'll give you a break because it's slow" line is really insulting nowadays.
Let us know how it goes.
TC
Any thoughts would be appreciated as to what other owners are receiving for a discount.
Doug
I already own an ES300 and am very happy with the service dept. and the dealer is very close so I would prefer to buy there, however, my impression is that their price is $1000-$1500 too high, but I think all the local dealers are keeping the price high.
Richard, one final piece of advice, and basically what Michael already pointed out: If you don't like to shop/haggle, then go the PL route. You have nothing to lose other than getting the car you want, at the price you want! I know, I sound like a PL commercial, but folks here have proven it gets results without a lot of hassle.
Good Luck,
TC
TC
2. Climate control: On the 2000 RX the A/C indicator always came on if the compressor was running. On the 2001 there are instances, defrost for one, when the compressor will run without the indicator being illuminated. This can become a problem in colder climates when the compressor cycles off, either automatically when the OAT declines below 33F, or the operator de-activates the defrost function. When the compressor is cycled off many of the tiny moisture droplets previously condensed on the surfaces of the evaporator, but not having rearched enough mass to flow out the drain, will be released into the cabin atmosphere. If the defrost mode was used to defog the front windshield then the fogging "cycle" will now repeat (humidity will increase)again-and-again, typically getting worse with each cycle. This will continue until the use of the compressor is somehow discontinued in favor of HEATING the windshield surface to raise it above dewpoint and/or somehow extracting the overly humid air from the vehicle, say by lowering a rear window ever so slightly.
Many new vehicles, expecially Lexii, do not have a reasonable level of exiting airflow from the rear of the car, thus the use of flow-thru mode has very little effect. I suspect that Lexus, and many many other luxury brands, restricts the exit airflow to keep the noise level in the car lower. The less fresh (COLD!) air "rushing", coming, (NOISE) into the vehicle the lower the blower speed (NOISE) can be.
The more turbulent (NOISY!) the airflow through the vanes of the heat exchanger is, the more efficient those exchangers become. ALL of the system airflow travels first through the evaporator (cooling heat exchanger), then some or all is routed through the heater core (heat exchanger).
FIXES:
1. On my 1992 LS400 I have a manual "wintertime mode" switch in series with the OAT sensor (thermistor) which puts an extra resistor in series with the OAT sensor and causes the sensor output to indicate to the climate control computer that it is 32F when it is actually 45F. Like Saab, and many other more sensible designs, the Lexus compressor then does not operate below 45F. This also has a desireable side effect in that it causes the system to warm the car up quicker on cold mornings.
2. I also added four 12V muffing fans, two in each rear quarter panel, to aid in extracting humid cabin atmosphere. I got tired of lowering windows in rain and snowstorms. These fans automatically activate whenever the rear defrost heater (defog) or either of the front defrost (defog) functions are in use.
3. I also have a switch mounted under the dash just beside the steering column which changes the inside air temperature sensor output. I use that one to instantly raise the system outflow temperature when I want to quickly defog and HEAT the windshield.
I would most heartily recommend that anyone wishing to operate a 2001 RX in wintertime conditions install the resistor in series with the OAT sensor as an absolute minimum safety measure. On my 2000 RX I could simply de-activate the A/C when the indicator came on in cold weather. In the 2001 RX even turning it on then off doesn't deactivate the A/C compressor in defrost (defog, demist) mode.
Does anyone know what happens to the metal(ized) Lexus logo in the center of the steering wheel airbag if the bag activates? I wear glasses but it still concerns me somewhat, it wasn't there on the 2000 RX.
Why does Lexus ask me to agree not to be distracted by the Nav system and then continually put up the moving map display (a serious distraction) even when I am not using Nav?
Why not leave the radio, climate control, OAT, etc, status indications up when I am not using the Nav, or even leave them up until something of interest "needs" to be displayed by the Nav?
Why is the text for these other functions so much smaller than the (2000) non-nav LCD display?
I also just saw a "post" where some pontiac owner was complaining about his OAT indication was almost always incorrect in the morning until he had driven the car for some distance, I believe he said thirty minutes. I suspect that his "problem" was part of the intentional design of the Pontiac climate control system.
When a car is stored overnight in a heated garage the OAT sensor will of course indicate the temperature of the garage when the car is first started up and driven out into a cold winter morning. Since this same sensor is used as an input to the climate control system that system will not operate "properly" on that cold morning until the sensor has acclimated to the "new" environment, depending on the sensor's "mass" that "acclimation" might take a few miles. I found that the Lexus would even start up the A/C compressor, system in cooling mode, when I would first drive out into a sub-freezing climate.
Since this OAT sensor is mounted behind the front bumper, just forward of the engine radiator (LS, RX, not sure about others) I have had instances in the wintertime in SLOW traffic, or after having stopped for awhile, that this OAT sensor was heated by heat radiating from the radiator causing the system to go into COOLING mode.
FOR MORE SEE:
post #1,2,3 Tahoe auto climate control defroster problem.
post #42,43 SMELLY VENT
Actually my answer will apply to any air conditioned car but most especially to a Lexus.
Lexus uses an especially complex, dense, evaporator design, moreso than is even required for the new lower efficiency refrigerant. Lexus does this to achieve a much better level of quietness in the car. A more efficient evaporator design will better cool the airflow, allowing for a lower blower speed and lower airflow noise overall.
Because the evaporator is so dense, has layer upon layer of cooling vanes, there is a tremendous amount of often damp surface area onto which mold and mildew readily develop. And that is what you smell.
In the Lexus this effect is worse because Lexus routes a disproportionate amount of cooled and dehumidified air, air that does not pass through the heater core, directly toward the windshield in defrost mode. If you check you will find that the airflow to the windshield in defrost mode is as much as 40F cooler (60-70F) than simultaneous footwell (100-110F) airflow, even in the wintertime when most designs would tend to keep the windshield warm.
The best way I have found to defeat this growth is to allow the evaporator to fully dry out when the car is not in use. I do this by opening the sunroof within the garage each and every evening. If you follow this practice you will also discover that the front windshield has a much lower probability of fogging over when you first start out on a cold morning.
Stores sell heaated pads designed for cars; this would probably be the way to go. Check mail order plac es as well. I suspect the cost would be about $50.
Nice kindly lady's voice then told me "sorry you're on your own now". After we got home tonight I plugged the address in again and zoomed in to the destination and sure enough the Nav map didn't cover the area where my friend lives.
Now that's a rather stupid Lexus programmer BUG! Get me lost out in the wilderness and then tell me something it "knew" before we started!
Had I known in advance I could have used Mapquest!
If you turn to the back of the NAV manual, there is pictorial description of the map areas that are covered in detail and those that are not throughout the country. I will grant you that the images in the manual are not that detailed.
Also, I believe you are entitled to at least 2 software updates. The DVD disc that is shipping with most 2001 models is the year 2000 version. You might want to contact your dealer for an update.
TC
http://lexus.start4all.com/
I do not consider it to be a software BUG that the map was incomplete, but I do consider it to be a serious design failure regarding advance indication that it was going to get me lost!
My sincere apologies, I did not realize that I was in essence "preaching to the choir" about software bugs. I just checked your bio.
I agree with your point that it would have been nice to get a warning that your final destination was out of the database's "detail" range. Since the system is DVD based, I don't see any reason why the operating code couldn't be "flashed" to change the default operation.
In other regards to firmware, it's annoying that many of the "body" electronics are programmable, but only by the dealer. I talked to the dealer this morning about it, I wanted to know whether the doors could be programmed to auto-lock once the car hits 10mph. My Grand Am does this and I think it's a great safety feature. Alas, he said no, but I don't think that is the final answer. I say this because I hear that the original Japanse version of the this vehicle, the Harrier, does in fact have this feature.
I would make a comment to Lexus USA if I was you. The only way they will make changes we want as consumers is if we give them feedback. Who knows, they might make you a beta tester for a Nav update.
Keep the comments and suggestions coming,
TC
Now here it is 2001, I just bought a 2001 RX300, their motto is now "The passionate pursuit of perfection" and to my knowledge there is still no feedback method.
Ilya at Lexus "helps" told me that in some regions of the country customers can use their VIN to access a section of Lexus.com that allows emails. I went through about four postal codes trying to locate one that had this facility with no luck.
My company manufactures and ships "legacy" computer systems throughout the world. I have no question that much of our success in our market is a result of providing an "open channel" so our customers can most readily tell us of their likes, DISLIKES, product needs, or just simple comments.
I live in Northern Virginia and wonder if this is a regional or national program. I have seen some of the deals that have been negotiated on these cars in Maryland and am wondering if anyone can offer me guidance regarding the leasing a RX300 as far as an appropriate amount for capitalized cost, residual value and money factor. I have excellent credit.
Thanks for your help
Thanks in Advance
Michael
The RX will get redesigned for I beleive no earlier than MY 2003, meaning you won't see it until Fall 2002. The car will be a little larger since it will be using the platform that the new Toyota Highlander is using. Another important point is that it will be produced in North America. I consider this point a DETRIMENT, look at the quality control issues Mercedes, BMW and others had when they shifted production to NA. Sure, they'll work out the issues eventually, but when you are paying for quality and luxury you shouldn't have to be a consumer guinea pig while they work the kinks out.
When I heard about the production shift, I thought to myself that I definitely made the right choice buying now.
TC
Both Ford and GM's luxury divisions will soon be switching back to rear wheel drive because of the inherent safety of that configuration versus FWD. Just one of the many reasons why Lexus (and Mercedes and BMW) is still out-selling these FWD american luxury cars.
I would have bought a 2001 MDX for its (A,4WD)driveline design if it had HID. I figured that the 2001 RX with Traction would give me enough rear bias balance when/if I needed it.
If the RX is to remain competitive in the TRUE SUV marketplace, they must soon address the driveline issue. And again, I do not mean off-road.
These changes can of course be made without affecting the overall body design, appearance, of the RX.
I wouldn't worry so much about a Lexus (Toyota) of american manufacture if I were you. Remember that it was the 1990 LS400, basically a copy of the Mercedes, that made BMW and Mercedes sit up and take notice of true market desires. And don't forget that the Camry is made in Kentucky.
Where did you get the 70/30 F-to-R split? I always thought it was 60/40, but have yet to find an official source for this info. Anyhow, because the RX is a "true" AWD and not just automatic 4WD like the MDX and others, I believe it is inherently safer since traction is on all 4 wheels all the time.
Also, the RX has the VSC system, similar (if not exact) to the MB ML320 ESP. Again, not many other vehicles have this.
I'm still no fan of NA production. Look at the quality issues that plagued the '98 and '99 ML320. And there were numerous issues with the BMW X5.
Just my opinion, but I could be wrong.
TC
As I have said, I bought a 2001 AWD because it had VSC and Traction. I tried these features out on a muddy, wet, dirt road just after buying the car. It was easy to get the vehicle "sideways" in the mud and the VSC light (vehicle outline with "squiggly" tire tracks top left of instrument panel) illuminated almost immediately. In repeated tries, "sideways" and "stuck in the mud",I could feel no descernable action on the part of differential braking nor did I ever detect any de-throttling of the engine. In each instance what did happen within mere seconds of the VSC indication was an ABS failure indication simultaneous with a VSC failure indication. The VSC "active" indication would extinguish as soon as I removed the yaw input by righting the vehicle. the two failure lights would extinguish once I drove the vehicle on the straight and narrow for about 50 yards.
There are two places in the owners manual where it states in bold type that either of these failure indications is a serious matter and the vehicle should be serviced immediately.
The Lexus Bellevue service manager disputed this and told me that this was a normal indication under the circumstances. Lexus "help" is still trying to find out the truth of this matter.
The traction facility on earlier Lexus models would (very) noticeably brake the spinning rear wheels and then de-throttle the engine if the accelerator wasn't soon lifted.
NA manufacturing. I firmly believe that we can be the best there is worldwide at manufacturing. The mistake we too often make is allowing management (purchasing) to over-ride engineering and QA.
Toyota/Lexus has these priorities squared away. Not fully obviously, but moreso than most.
The Lexus product line, overall, is the very best one can purchase in today's market.
Agreed, this is the way VSC is SUPPOSE to operate. I'm sorry to hear yours doesn't. I hope they figure it out, and I hope it's not a widespread/design problem.
"NA manufacturing. I firmly believe that we can be the best there is worldwide at manufacturing. The mistake we too often make is allowing management (purchasing) to over-ride engineering and QA."
I'm not going to touch this one because I'll get flamed. Bascially has to do with our values as a society and work ethic.
"Toyota/Lexus has these priorities squared away. Not fully obviously, but moreso than most.
The Lexus product line, overall, is the very best one can purchase in today's market. "
So far, I agree 100%. This is my first Lexus and so far things are good. I have a small "ticking" sound from the engine on my new RX and I'm waiting to see how the dealer addresses it.
TC
First impressions are that its very quiet, very lively and a superb vehicle to drive. No problems with navigating, my wife tells me which way to go.(That saved a few quid on the nav system). If you look at the Lexus UK site at
www.lexus.co.uk you can see the difference in specs to the US version. Hope to try it out towing my caravan (trailer) in the next week or so and will let you know how I get on.
I find the posts here invaluable as you guys have had a couple of years experience of this SUV and we have only had it since last October.
Drew
Host
Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
The Japanese manufacturing segment does NOT accept change easily. Ever heard of "if something works, don't fix it?".
Look at the 1990 Lexus LS400, see anything special there? My term was understated elegance. Then why was/is the car such a hot seller in the US market?
Reliability!!!
The responsibility of QA is to be certain the product is built to specifications. Do Ford engineers intentionally design cars that fail? Or do Fords fail becuase something went wrong in the manufacturing process.
Many of us are stuck with unsafe front wheel drive cars because the detroit penny-pinchers realized that it was cheaper to build front wheel drive that rear wheel drive!
To Tony. Where did you come up with the 50/50 torque split figure? The RX300 shop manual says that NO torque is delivered to the rear unless the clutch's viscous fluid is heated by the turbulence created by differential turning rates of the front to rear clutch plates. The transaxle diagram indicates that the primary engine driveline is directly coupled to the front wheels and the rear wheels are driven from/off the front driveline through the viscosity of the fluid in the clutch. So the actual torque split under normal conditions is determined by the NORMAL (non-turbulent heated) viscosity of this fluid.
Unless I have a very serious misunderstanding of the whole thing the best torque split under worse conditions, rear wheels almost stalled, is only about 50/50.
Think of it like towing a trailer on which the trailer brakes are activated by compression of the trailer tongue. The tongue is compressed by the inertia of the trailer's mass as the pulling vehicle slows or stops. The trailer's brakes can never apply more stopping force than that of the lead vehicle.
Also, I am an engineer by training with stints in design, production, QA, marketing. I'll offer this very simplistic answer in terms of bad products: It's not any one area that makes or breaks it, it's an overall "attitude" in the culture of facilty producing the product. My opinion is that the Japanses manufacturers ensure that this culture is in place and everyone is focused on the product, down to the guy who sweeps the floors at night.
bospton: I don't think you are crazy, and yes, you could have gotten a car that was damaged in transit and repaired. But you should have been told this. Also, it is possible that you got a car that was painted with contaminanated paint. It's rare, but it does happen (Chrysler had a huge problems with Grand Cherokees a few years back). You should push the issue with the dealer.
TC
"My company builds and sells..." I'm sure we could go back and forth "My company builds and sells broad cast systems in the worldwide market Japan included we must adhear to strict standards (harmonization) to even be able to sell products globally"
Your assessment of QA is basically the same as I stated above. As far as cost cutting that is a reality in any business do you think that the Japanese do not try and make a product cheaper. The specifications and tolerances are given to manufacturing by engineers/design a Ford could very well fail because of a problem with manufacturing it could also fail due to design error. The problem lies with a lack of communication between engineering and manufacturing. Try telling an engineer that the part he/she designed is flawed, see the response you get! Tony you said it best it is definetly an organizational attitude toward a product, put the egos aside and produce the best produce possible.
Richard
[email protected]
Is there something you are not telling us? This is an impossible price for a *new* RX equipped the way you say. SOMETHING has to be wrong with this car.
I'd love to know what dealer if this is true. I'll buy a dozen cars and resell them at a profit.