Mine has an electronic module "glued" to the inside of the windshield (behind the rear view mirror) that automatically "triggers" the system into defog mode if the windshield interior surface dewpoint "spread" narrows to the point that windshield fogging would otherwise very soon occur. At the same time it switches an additional resistance into the IAT sensor circuit so the ECU "thinks" the cabin has gotten very cold resulting in a substantial increase blower speed and defog/demist airflow temperature and volume.
"Home brew" AUTOMATIC over-ride design, as soon as the narrowing dewpoint spread "trend" reverses the system automatically reverts to normal operation.
Working on a new facet that will automatically turn on an active "exhauster" if the interior humidity is more than 20% above exterior humidity, or anytime the humidity in the A/C plenum starts to rise substantially.
Permanent cures for horrid mold and mildew, old gym-socks odors and sudden and spontaneous windshield fogging.
Couple of ideas you'll see in GM & MB, but not Lexus, in a few years.
dannysf clearly wasn't looking for a high end new HL purchase.
If I remember my fourth grade english teacher's teachings (1950) you're beginning to remind me a lot of her, do you teach elementary school by any chance?
But, Mr. West, according to you, your "Home brew" AUTOMATIC over-ride design is less than satisfactory.
Please read carefully here. One post earlier you stated: "the RX is automatic but must always be over-ridden manually, if one wants satisfactory operation, that is."
"Must always be over-ridden manually". Say it with me, now, brothers and sisters! "if one wants satisfactory operation, that is". Hallelujah! "Must always"!
You're settling for less, by your own design. LOL Why would you rig your car to perform less satisfactorily? I should have guessed you were into self-flagellation.
Now if you'll turn to Hymn #2
I am fully aware of what dannysf wanted and I cautioned him against the likes of you. He clearly wasn't even looking for a Highlander, period. You brought that baby into this world. I tried to put it to bed. I told him, "I own a Lexus RX 300. I love it and recommend it".
Also, please note, wwest, that in my last post I addressed you directly and once again you twist my words to suit your agenda. I made no reference to dannysf.
Please do not twist my words to suit your agenda. I don't twist your words, I quote you directly.
Mr. West, you claimed, "It's just that the HL is always a manual system".
I asked you directly, "If one buys the Highlander with the Limited package, doesn't one get CFC-free automatic digital climate control?"
You ducked that one, so I'll save you the trouble. The answer: Yes
Highlander with the Limited package. Say it with me, now, brothers and sisters! CFC-free automatic digital climate control. Hallelujah!
I've heard that the 2004 RX 300 will be introduced in Spring of 2003 with a lot more style and luxury. Same size without a 3rd row of seats. Does anybody else know about this?
Regarding zizzy, if you can point out a post to me wherein I have been anything BUT polite I'll gladly hand you my resignation from edmunds town hall. I do my best to address the issues at hand and keep mostly to technical issues while all I seem to get in return from zizzy is "word games", parsing of sentences to change the meaning. Granted I'm often not very precise in my use of the english language but I'm fairly confortable that the person to whom I am actually responding can understand my underlying intent.
My sincerest congradulations, I truly loved teaching but more pay elsewhere kept drawing me away.
Not tongue in cheek, not satire, not suck-up, I hope one day everyone will realize that teachers have a good deal more value to society than the rest of us and the pay will rise accordingly.
Language precision isn't as big a problem on discussion boards, imho, as the simple lack of other feedback that you get in normal conversation (body language, nodding, smiling, etc.). It's sometimes hard to convey a "tone" around here, not to mention that humor doesn't translate very well - no one ever gets my jokes....
People are quick to jump when they think a post's tone is somehow challenging or rude. Good ol' human nature. You just had to ask, didn't you? Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
While I don't often agree with you, your posts are almost always well thought out. And judging from the amount of flak you've received from many of us....you've exhibited impressive restraint.
As one who truly enjoys my RX, has mastered the Nav system, doesn't give a twit about "real" AWD, has no problem with the defogging system, AND knows the Boxter is a great Porsche (yes, I see wwest there also)I would miss your contrarian views. Maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment.
wwest, you state "if you can point out a post to me wherein I have been anything BUT polite I'll gladly hand you my resignation from edmunds town hall."
Please review your recent posts: #5382 "Mostly it's a relatively few, universally, damn few, electrons."
#5386 "Damn, and I always thought that was the reason the entire Lexus product line is the absolute best in the world marketplace."
That language is "anything BUT polite" in these posts from the last week.
Thanks for the responses to the RX300 negotiation. I'm committed to the RX300 with AWD. I live in Northern CA. and do a lot of skiing. We would use the AWD a lot during the winters. I've owned a Jeep CJ5, and a Chevy S10 Blazer. I'm at a stage where I won't do much if any off roading, but if I did, I would get a specific vehicle for that purpose. Also, this will be my wife's main mode of transportation.
I've generally bought my vehicles from private parties, as you get the best value. In this case, I want to go through the dealer for two reasons: 1) Selection, 2)Certified vehicles.
In the paper (SF Chronicle, SJ Mercury News) There are only 2-3 RX300 from private parties available vs 2-3 at any given dealer, and about 6 at the largest dealer in the area. The private parties are generally asking 90% of high blue book. The hassle factor with going 30-40 miles to check out a vehicle, and then try to negotiate with them is a very time consuming process. And I would want a mechanic to check the vehicle before I bought, more time and $$$.
I also believe the certification program has a very high margin built in. The Lexus dealers are trying to sell that it's worth $2500, where independant warranty coverages will cost about $700. But I don't want to hassle with having to get every little thing my wife finds checked out. Just drop it at the dealer, get a loaner, and the pick it up again. So that's another area to negotiate down.
So I went to a dealer yesterday with my $25K goal. Within 10 minutes I had them down from $31K asking to $27.5, but they wouldn't go any further. I probably could have gotten and addition $500 if I wanted to close, but I'm not in that big of a hurry. I didn't close, as I think I will still get closer to my $25K goal, especially towards the end of the month, when the sales people are under pressure to make their quotas. I also think it more valuable to contact the Used Sales Manager vs. a rep. In my negotioation, the reason they couldn't get closer to my goal was that the sales manager wouldn't let them, but I coudn't deal with them once the negotiation had started.
As far as buying new, my original budget is $25-26K, and a new one base invoice cost is $32K, and then there are options, boosting the price to around $35K.
Great choice. Lexus is a fine ride. End of the month is wise.
Use your wife to get a better price. An old, but effective trick. When you get close to the price you want and they stall, break off by telling them you have to call your wife (for any reason). Come back in a few minutes (looking a little dejected) and tell them can't buy unless you get a certain price (Your price), because the wife has reminded you what the budget will allow. She won't agree to let you spend any more than that. Be humble. Let them know you really want it, and pepper the salesman with these jewels: -But my wife says... -She really wants a 3rd row of seats... -If it were up to me... -I love this car, but... -She likes the Honda... -I know she'd love the Lexus too, but... -It's kinda out of my hands... -If you could just come down to... ...we'd have a deal.
It turns the tables. Just like the salesman who has to go and talk with the sales manager, leaving you sitting alone waiting for his return.
Used this once to get the last $600 off a car deal.
The only time I went up to the pass this pass winter (luckily)I had more people than the RX could carry. so I took the company's AWD Aerostar.
I had no problem negotiating, driving up, through three "tiers" in the ski parking area, but I just couldn't believe how many AWD or 4WD SUVs couldn't make it up the first "tier's" slight incline, packed snow and ice.
Acrid smell of burning rubber everywhere.
I was especially interested when a new (VSC badged) AWD RX couldn't make the incline.
Since you have a CJ5 you know what a real 4WD can do on an interstate highway over a snow and ice packed mountain pass, locked center diff'l, rear chains and then all four if need be.
The RX has an open center diff'l with a VC across the two output shafts. If the VC were designed correctly at the factory it would stiffen enough to substantially "lock" the center diff'l. If there were enough wheelwell clearance in the rear for chains you wouldn't need to endanger yourself with chains ONLY on the front.
But if the VC were to actually stiffen up then Lexus would need to add an over-running clutch to uncouple the rear from the front to maintain an operational anti-lock braking system.
I know it's not considered proper form to suggest the Chrysler T&C minivan but I'd be willing to bet your wife would be a lot more pleased with an AWD minivan that actually can get up and go in foul weather and isn't, god forbid, hadicapped with chaisn only for the front.
I'm not a big fan of Chrysler, nor of DC, but I bought my daughter an AWD T&C for just the reasons you state and she's been very pleased with it.
Pay no attention to those that would attempt to wish a Chrysler minivan on you (or even a Toyota Highlander). There are those that troll discussion groups and bash Lexus for personal reasons. Some are pathological in their obsession.
The Lexus RX 300 AWD is a fine vehicle. Again, I wish you luck in finding one at the price you want
Chrysler minivan? "hadicapped with chaisn"? Whatever.
"hadicapped with chaisn" - ? If you ask me, that's downright rude, crude, and impolite.
In some language.
Now about those classic negotiating lines to use with sales people - what a great idea for a contest! Here are my three suggestions for the Lexus rep when danny is gettin' serious on a '99 RX:
1. "According to all the web bulletin boards, it's real important to take the top of that Toyota V-6 off and check for sludge - so here, I brought a flashlight and some tools...."
2. "Ok, ok, just one more time - what do each of those 128-point CPO inspection items mean?" (for maximum points, this has to be asked on weekends near closing time with other showroom traffic present)
3. "You know, all the auto manufacturers have 0% financing PLUS big discounts this year - why doesn't Lexus get with the times and give it up on an old vehicle that you bought at auction for $10k under your asking price? I mean, greed that large went out the door with Enron, Xerox, and WorldCom, right?"
Ok, I lied - I have four of them:
4. "Look, build quality, dealer service, and resale value are very important to me - so you should know I'm comparing that RX of yours directly to a Chysler T&C Minivan and a Ford Excape and, right now, you're barely in third place!"
5. If you let me stick my hygrometer in your plenum, it's a deal!
6. OK, I can live with the price if you'll please check again if the CPO warranty will cover my EED, Bio-zone UV filter, and Home brew AUTOMATIC climate control over-ride.
I have a 3 week old RX300. The other day I was driving at 55mph and let one of the back windows down. There was a vibration in the truck and it felt like an air pressure change when you are in a plane. I got out to check to see if something was wrong with tires and everything was fine.
Went 55mph and it happened again. I opened the other back window and the sound and pressure went away. I closed the first back window I had open, and the sound came back. If I open a front window and back window, it does not happen. If I open one front window it does not happen.
If someone else has experienced this or will try the things I did, I would appreciate it if you would post what you find. I have Goodyear Integrity tires on it as standard, but I am putting larger Michelin tires on it next week. I was going to do this anyway to accommodate some after market wheels, but it would be interesting if that is causing this. Thanks.
Not the tires. That would be great. Change'em out and problem solved.
Unfortunately, it's the curse of the tight automobile.
Sort of like a helicopter right outside the car, whop, whop, whop.
There's nowhere for the air to go as it passes over one open rear window. The cabin is so tight. I don't want to diminish this, but it's like blowing over the top of a soda bottle. As you found, opening (or even cracking) another window alleviates this phenomena.
I was quite angry at first. It was shocking and somewhat painful. I was disappointed, and even embarrassed. Look at your passenger seat next time it happens. It vibrates like crazy during this.
According to everyone I've spoken to at Lexus, it's a characteristic of the design. I've also learned that is is a characteristic of many vehicles, new and old. Even the RX 300's new cousin, the Highlander has this problem, too. Some manufacturers have/are working on fixes.
It stinks, but I've learned to live with it. I just don't open my rear windows one at a time. I'll be sure to open one rear window next test drive I take. Maybe it'll yield a discount.
To be honest, though, it's been 3 months since I bought my RX and this is now a non-issue. I find myself looking forward to hopping in the car to go anywhere, for any reason. It's that good. Don't let this sour you towards this fine vehicle. I know what you're feeling and you're not alone. This will pass.
krazyhopz, zizzy is absolutely correct in describing the phenonmemon and cause of the painful "helicopter" sound. Chalk it up to the increasing management of airflow around the car by extensive wind tunnel design since smooth (laminar) flow over that open window is what's responsible. Lowered Cd = smoother flow = better gas mileage.
It was never a problem in any of my older cars back in 60s and 70s since they had all the aerodynamic streamlining of a brick. But my first Honda Prelude (1984) had to have a wind deflector added to keep the sunroof from buffeting when open and it's been more of a problem with every subsequent vehicle that I've bought since.
Bottom line is that it's not a design flaw, but a probably inescapable consequence of manufacturer's pursuit of better mileage. However, you could think of your Lexus as one big, rolling musical wind instrument altho it only plays one, very low frequency note!!!
For example: a new RX300 at $34 K with 3.9% over 60 months will have the same payment as a used one $26.5 K at 6% and 48 months. Now, I don't know what interest rate you can get a Lexus but you ought to check. You can always get a lower rate and longer term on a new vehicle. If your payment is the limiting factor like it is for me, take these things into account. I prefer to buy new and keep the car for 10-12 years.
I've always thought the reason you get the buffeting sound was the large cubic foot space of air behind the back seat. Are you guys telling me that a sedan that's got good windproofing will make this noise too?
I thought this was a problem only in SUVs because of their interior design including the trunk.
Both my 68 and 75 Ford station wagons would do the same thing, but in those I had an electrically operated upper rear window glass that I could lower slightly to alleviate the problem.
As I said before I'm hoping the next version of the RX will have electrically operable quarter panel winglets like the T&C and the ML. Allows more comfort overall and definitely eliminates the WHOOP, WHOOP, helicopter sound.
I write this because I feel bad about all the heat you guys give Mr. Wwest. So, in the spirit of fairness, I give you my list of imperfections....
Strut mounting pop noise from the back. Next time you're in a shopping center and going around 10 or 15 mph., with the radio off and no one talking, listen for a noise that eminates from the back suspension. It occurs when you go to slow down after cruising at the slower speed.
Moonroof popping noise. Occurs when the temperature outside is very hot and inside is cooling from a/c.
The wheel and tire package for this vehicle is all wrong. To prove my point, the Silversport brochure shows a SS with wider tires and what I will presume is 17" wheels. Go out and look at the asthetics of the wheel base/well and come back and tell me that doesn't look on the skimpy side. For true offroading, the size is prolly correct. But how many RX owners really go "offroad"? I'd much rather have been offered a more performance styled tire/wheel combination than what is jammed down each and every RX owner's throat. Even the style is the same between chrome and alloy. I've always hated that they didn't offer much in variety for their wheels. The tire size limits what you can mount, as well.
I had horror stories from when I first got the vehicle. It had an overspray that was difficult to remove. Thankfully, they relentlessy pursued perfection and the car was restored to new again.
I've got a belt that's been squealing intermittantly at initial start up.
My brakes have gone back to squealing like a pig in you know what when I pass through a drive thru. They've been deglazed once. I now have 12,400 miles.
All of that being said, and there's even more, I have to say in my shallow little mind, that to step inside of my Lexus and drive it, instantly puts my mood to good. It's an awesome looking vehicle that's a blast to drive. I guess you could call them "a beautiful blond." (I'm blonde, so no offense intended!) With all of their imperfections, they still make you feel good. And that's all you can ask out of your vehicle. Well, that, and to get you there without breaking down. And Lexus seems to have that going for them.
Sorry, to hear of your problems. I haven't experienced anything like you describe and nothing was jammed down my throat by purchasing an RX 300.
Pathos for a Lexus basher? That's lost on me.
I will agree whole-heartedly with you regarding it's mood-elevating properties.
I regularly find myself walking backwards to look at it after I've gotten out. I wake up in the morning and while coffee's brewing, I open the front door just to look at it.
Roof popping noise: I think that can be substantially reduced by "super" tightening the roof rack crossbars. I removed mine for a better/different "look" and realized the roof popping got worse. Put them back really tightened and it definitely helped.
I already said that I upgraded mine to 17X8 wheels and Michelin XCs with 1.2" spacers all around. I can't say I understand why the strut had to be designed to be that close to the tire nor do I understand why the spring needed to be so close to the tire tread.
But I have heard that the JGC was like that in the early years of its production so I guess Lexus isn't the only one to make this type of design mistake. I hope, like the JGC, Lexus corrects the problem with the next model/version.
You can probably cure the brake squealing problem by having a mechanic "chamfer" the leading and trailing edges of the brake pads at about a 30 to 45 degree angle, works on "track" pads for a 911.
This is my second RX and I upgraded from the first for HID, VSC/TRAC or I might say belief in Lexus' "Relentless (Passionate) Pursuit of Perfection", and I'm looking forward to the next one for the same reasons.
There is a picture of my burnished gold monotone Rx over on CL in the RX300 gallery.
Heard the redesigned RX 300 arrives in April on a HL platform. Looks less like a minivan. It's supposed to have a lot more luxury, better fromt seats, less troublesome armrests that block the seatbelt clips, better turning radius, and posssibly a set of stereo/temp, controls on steering wheel, etc..
Your description seems like an amalgam of all the current rumors flying around. Plenty of people are speculating. Like other recent models and model upgrades, Lexus will probably introduce it months before it's available at some major auto show.
Yeah ziz, that makes sense. I took a friends' RX300 out today and the same thing. They have Michelin 255x55x18s and it did not make a bit of difference.
I am sure it is based on the basic design of the vehicle. I have a BMW 528i and tried it and it does not happen.
I'll keep the RX300 and every time I open the back window, I'll just start screaming " Blackhawk down, Blackhawk down" !!!!
So, I assume you are paying cash for this '99 if you understood my financing point. If so, take the $25,000 cash to the dealer and wave it in his face. It is very difficult for him to pass up a cash offer like that. He doesn't have to deal with the financing paperwork or the risk he takes with you by financing. I think the "certified pre-owned" mess is a bunch of marketing hype. How many Lexus owners mistreat their cars bad enough for there to be something significant wrong with them. I would go down the street to a non-Lexus used car dealer and offer the same $25 K and see what he says. You might even be able to get a '00 for that from a non-Lexus dealer.
Actually, most dealer's lose interest immediately when you wave cash if front of them, you're simply taking away their chance for "hidden" profits via lease or purchase contract "kickbacks". Profits that most buyers are not aware of, and most buyers lease or sign a long term contract.
ZIZ, they are Michelin Pilot LTXs. They make a major difference in how the RX handles. It seems much more stable than before. They are very quiet, and have a V rating.
I know they were going for a car-like ride, but in my opinion, it is not a very good ride. Too jittery for my taste. The high center of gravity just does not seem to do well with the Goodyear Integritys. Of course I am trying not to compare this with my other vehicle which is a BMW, but I am sure bias is creeping in.
I travel a lot, and I rent SUVs when I am on the road, so some of the comparisons is against like vehicles.
If so, take the $25,000 cash to the dealer and wave it in his face. ... He doesn't have to deal with the financing paperwork or the risk he takes with you by financing.
The risks involved in financing are already accounted for in the interest rates charged and are covered by insurance. Paying cash also has the drawback that the dealer has to report your transaction to the Treasury Department (anything over $10K).
Actually, I have never in my life seen anyone, anywhere in sales, particularly car sales, "lose interest immediately when you wave cash" at them. Sure, a car dealer wants you to finance through them or their agent, but "lose interest immediately" in a sale because it's a cash transacation?
This seems a silly, anserine proposition that's inconsistent with reason or logic in a market economy. Cash is still King, especially in light of the low financing available to anyone with decent credit (potential Lexus owners, maybe?).
I suggest, also, that most buyers these days are well informed, with a high level of awareness of many issues regarding their purchases.
Actually, anyone with an Internet connection, half a brain, and an interest in saving money can easily locate information regarding most products, including vehicles for sale, both new and used. Little of an auto dealer's pricing and profit is hidden today.
The finance people often will give a spiff to the dealer to help sweeten the pot. Together with fast settlement terms on CPO vehicles there is litle, if any, hassle in a finace deal.
An actaul "wad of greenbacks" signals the DEA/Treasury Dept. cash disclouse forms, obviates a run to the 'vault'/bank drop.
And let's not kid ourselves about how many folks are 'wise' to the hidden profits. How many posts have you seen here asking "should I get the dealer offered environmnetal protection package/extrended warranty/prepaid oil-change et cetera et cetera...
The more numbers a "finance & insurance" person can get on the paperwork, the greater the dealer's profit is going to be.
There's a quote from the "Millionaire Next Door" is this thread about used luxury cars being purchased from private parties, and I suspect there is alot truth in it...
While I do not doubt that in many sales situations there is value to 'showing the money', car salespeople are trained to push the dubious value of add-ons, a behavior that is not as common in other situations.
If you are a cash buyer, trust that most Lexus owners maintain/don't abuse their vehicles you might do VERY well checking out the deals at a well know on-line auction site-- of course the inconvenience factor is quite high as well, desireable vehicel might be clear across the country. Sales there are much closer to wholesale.
Each and every time I go to buy something in an electronics store I begin by telling the salesperson that if s/he starts the dialogue about maintenance contracts or extended warranty I will turn around and walk out. More than half of the time I end up walking out, the "hidden" profits are too good from them to ignore.
Same with dealing with the dealer's contracts/finance manager, if you pay cash he doesn't get to take up your time trying to sell you the "extras" for which he gets a commission.
Several times I have actually been offered a really sweet deal, low interest rate, etc, in return for financing, often with the statement, you can go ahead and pay it off in a month or two if you wish. If there are not hidden profits in this then what, pray tell, is his/her modivation?
In the global scale of things, just how many people actually walk into a car dealership with cash in hand. Wanna see one flustered salesman, sales manager, contracts/lease/finance "closing manager?
Again, I have never in my life seen anyone, anywhere in sales, particularly car sales, "lose interest immediately when you wave cash" at them.
This thinking is absurd. Lose interest in selling a car because it's a cash deal? Unbelievable.
I'm not telling my kid, "They'll lose interest in selling you that car if you want to pay cash. You should pay more money for the car by borrowing money from them, if you want them to remain interested in selling you that car."
My parents never once financed an automobile during their 45 years of marriage. Nobody lost interest in their cash.
Lexus didn't lose interest in mine either. I plopped my checkbook on the salesman's desk and I haggled the best price I could.
MSRP $37,180 plus TTL. I paid $33,500 plus TTL for my 2002 RX. I financed nothing through them.
A rarity? I see one everytime I look in the mirror. LOL
Your statement, "And let's not kid ourselves about how many folks are 'wise' to the hidden profits. How many posts have you seen here asking "should I get the dealer offered environmnetal protection package/extrended warranty/prepaid oil-change et cetera et cetera..."
I never said thay were "wise" to anything.I said, anyone with an Internet connection, half a brain, and an interest in saving money can easily locate information regarding most products.
So they come here and ask "should I get the dealer offered environmnetal protection package/extrended warranty/prepaid oil-change et cetera et cetera..."
We answer them and they have located information with an Internet connection, and half a brain. Hopefully, they saved some money.
Most of us equate writing a check with "paying cash." I don't think I'd want to drive down to the dealer with an ammo box full of greenbacks (although I have a friend who tends to do just that!).
Wwest, sometimes when you want to buy something at the big box electronic store, it'll be mysteriously out of stock when you tell them you aren't interested in the extended warranty. The cure is to feign interest, and then change your mind at the check-out when you actually have the item in your hands. Or so I read on the net somewhere :-) Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
I assume your parents wrote a cheque when they bought a car, they didn't walk into a showroom with a wad of bills like Tony from Scarface. There is a difference.
In the 70's, my brother pulled a "Tony Montana" for a Ford econoline van. My sisters and I were with him. He was a total smart-*ss, dropping that wad of cash on the salesman and, embarrassingly, came up a few dollars shy. We siblings had to empty our pockets to make up for the shortfall.
We still laugh at that story and rib him about our "ownership" of that van.
Comments
Mr. West, "It's just that the HL is always a manual system", you wrongly claim.
If one buys the Highlander with the Limited package, doesn't one get CFC-free automatic digital climate control?
Can we manually override that, too? If one wants satisfactory operation, that is.
Mine has an electronic module "glued" to the inside of the windshield (behind the rear view mirror) that automatically "triggers" the system into defog mode if the windshield interior surface dewpoint "spread" narrows to the point that windshield fogging would otherwise very soon occur. At the same time it switches an additional resistance into the IAT sensor circuit so the ECU "thinks" the cabin has gotten very cold resulting in a substantial increase blower speed and defog/demist airflow temperature and volume.
"Home brew" AUTOMATIC over-ride design, as soon as the narrowing dewpoint spread "trend" reverses the system automatically reverts to normal operation.
Working on a new facet that will automatically turn on an active "exhauster" if the interior humidity is more than 20% above exterior humidity, or anytime the humidity in the A/C plenum starts to rise substantially.
Permanent cures for horrid mold and mildew, old gym-socks odors and sudden and spontaneous windshield fogging.
Couple of ideas you'll see in GM & MB, but not Lexus, in a few years.
You just had to ask, didn't you?
dannysf clearly wasn't looking for a high end new HL purchase.
If I remember my fourth grade english teacher's teachings (1950) you're beginning to remind me a lot of her, do you teach elementary school by any chance?
AUTOMATIC over-ride design is less than satisfactory.
Please read carefully here.
One post earlier you stated: "the RX is automatic
but must always be over-ridden manually, if one
wants satisfactory operation, that is."
"Must always be over-ridden manually".
Say it with me, now, brothers and sisters!
"if one wants satisfactory operation, that is".
Hallelujah! "Must always"!
You're settling for less, by your own design. LOL
Why would you rig your car to perform less satisfactorily?
I should have guessed you were into self-flagellation.
Now if you'll turn to Hymn #2
I am fully aware of what dannysf wanted and I cautioned
him against the likes of you. He clearly wasn't even
looking for a Highlander, period. You brought that baby
into this world. I tried to put it to bed. I told him,
"I own a Lexus RX 300. I love it and recommend it".
Also, please note, wwest, that in my last post I
addressed you directly and once again you twist
my words to suit your agenda. I made no reference
to dannysf.
Please do not twist my words to suit your agenda.
I don't twist your words, I quote you directly.
Mr. West, you claimed, "It's just that the HL is
always a manual system".
I asked you directly, "If one buys the Highlander
with the Limited package, doesn't one get CFC-free
automatic digital climate control?"
You ducked that one, so I'll save you the trouble.
The answer: Yes
Highlander with the Limited package.
Say it with me, now, brothers and sisters!
CFC-free automatic digital climate control.
Hallelujah!
Zizzy and Wwest - your homework assignment for the weekend is to write "I will be polite on the Town Hall Boards" - 500 times!
And you will both come back Monday morning and behave! Have a great weekend!
tidester
Host
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Not tongue in cheek, not satire, not suck-up, I hope one day everyone will realize that teachers have a good deal more value to society than the rest of us and the pay will rise accordingly.
People are quick to jump when they think a post's tone is somehow challenging or rude. Good ol' human nature. You just had to ask, didn't you?
Steve
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As one who truly enjoys my RX, has mastered the Nav system, doesn't give a twit about "real" AWD, has no problem with the defogging system, AND knows the Boxter is a great Porsche (yes, I see wwest there also)I would miss your contrarian views. Maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment.
Please review your recent posts:
#5382 "Mostly it's a relatively few, universally, damn few, electrons."
#5386 "Damn, and I always thought that was the reason the entire Lexus product line is the absolute best in the world marketplace."
That language is "anything BUT polite" in these posts from the last week.
Emily Post? Miss Manners?
I sure love my fine Lexus Automobile.
Steve
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I've generally bought my vehicles from private parties, as you get the best value. In this case, I want to go through the dealer for two reasons: 1) Selection, 2)Certified vehicles.
In the paper (SF Chronicle, SJ Mercury News) There are only 2-3 RX300 from private parties available vs 2-3 at any given dealer, and about 6 at the largest dealer in the area. The private parties are generally asking 90% of high blue book. The hassle factor with going 30-40 miles to check out a vehicle, and then try to negotiate with them is a very time consuming process. And I would want a mechanic to check the vehicle before I bought, more time and $$$.
I also believe the certification program has a very high margin built in. The Lexus dealers are trying to sell that it's worth $2500, where independant warranty coverages will cost about $700. But I don't want to hassle with having to get every little thing my wife finds checked out. Just drop it at the dealer, get a loaner, and the pick it up again. So that's another area to negotiate down.
So I went to a dealer yesterday with my $25K goal. Within 10 minutes I had them down from $31K asking to $27.5, but they wouldn't go any further. I probably could have gotten and addition $500 if I wanted to close, but I'm not in that big of a hurry. I didn't close, as I think I will still get closer to my $25K goal, especially towards the end of the month, when the sales people are under pressure to make their quotas. I also think it more valuable to contact the Used Sales Manager vs. a rep. In my negotioation, the reason they couldn't get closer to my goal was that the sales manager wouldn't let them, but I coudn't deal with them once the negotiation had started.
As far as buying new, my original budget is $25-26K, and a new one base invoice cost is $32K, and then there are options, boosting the price to around $35K.
Just my thoughts.
End of the month is wise.
Use your wife to get a better price. An old, but effective trick. When you get close to the price you want and they stall, break off by telling them you have to call your wife (for any reason). Come back in a few minutes (looking a little dejected) and tell them can't buy unless you get a certain price (Your price), because the wife has reminded you what the budget will allow. She won't agree to let you spend any more than that. Be humble. Let them know you really want it, and pepper the salesman with these jewels:
-But my wife says...
-She really wants a 3rd row of seats...
-If it were up to me...
-I love this car, but...
-She likes the Honda...
-I know she'd love the Lexus too, but...
-It's kinda out of my hands...
-If you could just come down to...
...we'd have a deal.
It turns the tables. Just like the salesman who has to go and talk with the sales manager, leaving you sitting alone waiting for his return.
Used this once to get the last $600 off a car deal.
Good luck.
I had no problem negotiating, driving up, through three "tiers" in the ski parking area, but I just couldn't believe how many AWD or 4WD SUVs couldn't make it up the first "tier's" slight incline, packed snow and ice.
Acrid smell of burning rubber everywhere.
I was especially interested when a new (VSC badged) AWD RX couldn't make the incline.
Since you have a CJ5 you know what a real 4WD can do on an interstate highway over a snow and ice packed mountain pass, locked center diff'l, rear chains and then all four if need be.
The RX has an open center diff'l with a VC across the two output shafts. If the VC were designed correctly at the factory it would stiffen enough to substantially "lock" the center diff'l. If there were enough wheelwell clearance in the rear for chains you wouldn't need to endanger yourself with chains ONLY on the front.
But if the VC were to actually stiffen up then Lexus would need to add an over-running clutch to uncouple the rear from the front to maintain an operational anti-lock braking system.
I know it's not considered proper form to suggest the Chrysler T&C minivan but I'd be willing to bet your wife would be a lot more pleased with an AWD minivan that actually can get up and go in foul weather and isn't, god forbid, hadicapped with chaisn only for the front.
I'm not a big fan of Chrysler, nor of DC, but I bought my daughter an AWD T&C for just the reasons you state and she's been very pleased with it.
The Lexus RX 300 AWD is a fine vehicle. Again, I wish you luck in finding one at the price you want
Chrysler minivan? "hadicapped with chaisn"? Whatever.
"hadicapped with chaisn" - ? If you ask me, that's downright rude, crude, and impolite.
In some language.
Now about those classic negotiating lines to use with sales people - what a great idea for a contest! Here are my three suggestions for the Lexus rep when danny is gettin' serious on a '99 RX:
1. "According to all the web bulletin boards, it's real important to take the top of that Toyota V-6 off and check for sludge - so here, I brought a flashlight and some tools...."
2. "Ok, ok, just one more time - what do each of those 128-point CPO inspection items mean?" (for maximum points, this has to be asked on weekends near closing time with other showroom traffic present)
3. "You know, all the auto manufacturers have 0% financing PLUS big discounts this year - why doesn't Lexus get with the times and give it up on an old vehicle that you bought at auction for $10k under your asking price? I mean, greed that large went out the door with Enron, Xerox, and WorldCom, right?"
Ok, I lied - I have four of them:
4. "Look, build quality, dealer service, and resale value are very important to me - so you should know I'm comparing that RX of yours directly to a Chysler T&C Minivan and a Ford Excape and, right now, you're barely in third place!"
5. If you let me stick my hygrometer in your plenum, it's a deal!
6. OK, I can live with the price if you'll please check again if the CPO warranty will cover my EED, Bio-zone UV filter, and Home brew AUTOMATIC climate control over-ride.
Went 55mph and it happened again. I opened the other back window and the sound and pressure went away. I closed the first back window I had open, and the sound came back. If I open a front window and back window, it does not happen. If I open one front window it does not happen.
If someone else has experienced this or will try the things I did, I would appreciate it if you would post what you find. I have Goodyear Integrity tires on it as standard, but I am putting larger Michelin tires on it next week. I was going to do this anyway to accommodate some after market wheels, but it would be interesting if that is causing this. Thanks.
Unfortunately, it's the curse of the tight automobile.
Sort of like a helicopter right outside the car, whop, whop, whop.
There's nowhere for the air to go as it passes over one open rear window. The cabin is so tight. I don't want to diminish this, but it's like blowing over the top of a soda bottle. As you found, opening (or even cracking) another window alleviates this phenomena.
I was quite angry at first. It was shocking and somewhat painful. I was disappointed, and even embarrassed. Look at your passenger seat next time it happens. It vibrates like crazy during this.
According to everyone I've spoken to at Lexus, it's a characteristic of the design. I've also learned that is is a characteristic of many vehicles, new and old. Even the RX 300's new cousin, the Highlander has this problem, too. Some manufacturers have/are working on fixes.
It stinks, but I've learned to live with it. I just don't open my rear windows one at a time. I'll be sure to open one rear window next test drive I take. Maybe it'll yield a discount.
To be honest, though, it's been 3 months since I bought my RX and this is now a non-issue. I find myself looking forward to hopping in the car to go anywhere, for any reason. It's that good. Don't let this sour you towards this fine vehicle. I know what you're feeling and you're not alone. This will pass.
Patient: Hey, Doc, It hurts when I do this.
Doctor: Well, don't do that, then.
The proper term for this is Hemholtz resonance.
http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/Helmholtz.html
It was never a problem in any of my older cars back in 60s and 70s since they had all the aerodynamic streamlining of a brick. But my first Honda Prelude (1984) had to have a wind deflector added to keep the sunroof from buffeting when open and it's been more of a problem with every subsequent vehicle that I've bought since.
Bottom line is that it's not a design flaw, but a probably inescapable consequence of manufacturer's pursuit of better mileage. However, you could think of your Lexus as one big, rolling musical wind instrument altho it only plays one, very low frequency note!!!
understand his "underlying intent". LOL.
I went camping. The stars I was underlying intent.
I thought this was a problem only in SUVs because of their interior design including the trunk.
As I said before I'm hoping the next version of the RX will have electrically operable quarter panel winglets like the T&C and the ML. Allows more comfort overall and definitely eliminates the WHOOP, WHOOP, helicopter sound.
Strut mounting pop noise from the back. Next time you're in a shopping center and going around 10 or 15 mph., with the radio off and no one talking, listen for a noise that eminates from the back suspension. It occurs when you go to slow down after cruising at the slower speed.
Moonroof popping noise. Occurs when the temperature outside is very hot and inside is cooling from a/c.
The wheel and tire package for this vehicle is all wrong. To prove my point, the Silversport brochure shows a SS with wider tires and what I will presume is 17" wheels. Go out and look at the asthetics of the wheel base/well and come back and tell me that doesn't look on the skimpy side.
For true offroading, the size is prolly correct. But how many RX owners really go "offroad"? I'd much rather have been offered a more performance styled tire/wheel combination than what is jammed down each and every RX owner's throat. Even the style is the same between chrome and alloy. I've always hated that they didn't offer much in variety for their wheels. The tire size limits what you can mount, as well.
I had horror stories from when I first got the vehicle. It had an overspray that was difficult to remove. Thankfully, they relentlessy pursued perfection and the car was restored to new again.
I've got a belt that's been squealing intermittantly at initial start up.
My brakes have gone back to squealing like a pig in you know what when I pass through a drive thru. They've been deglazed once. I now have 12,400 miles.
All of that being said, and there's even more, I have to say in my shallow little mind, that to step inside of my Lexus and drive it, instantly puts my mood to good. It's an awesome looking vehicle that's a blast to drive.
I guess you could call them "a beautiful blond." (I'm blonde, so no offense intended!) With all of their imperfections, they still make you feel good. And that's all you can ask out of your vehicle. Well, that, and to get you there without breaking down. And Lexus seems to have that going for them.
I love my Lexus even with its imperfections.
Pathos for a Lexus basher? That's lost on me.
I will agree whole-heartedly with you regarding it's mood-elevating properties.
I regularly find myself walking backwards to look at it after I've gotten out. I wake up in the morning and while coffee's brewing, I open the front door just to look at it.
Anyone need an errand run for them? I'll drive.
Steve
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I already said that I upgraded mine to 17X8 wheels and Michelin XCs with 1.2" spacers all around. I can't say I understand why the strut had to be designed to be that close to the tire nor do I understand why the spring needed to be so close to the tire tread.
But I have heard that the JGC was like that in the early years of its production so I guess Lexus isn't the only one to make this type of design mistake. I hope, like the JGC, Lexus corrects the problem with the next model/version.
You can probably cure the brake squealing problem by having a mechanic "chamfer" the leading and trailing edges of the brake pads at about a 30 to 45 degree angle, works on "track" pads for a 911.
This is my second RX and I upgraded from the first for HID, VSC/TRAC or I might say belief in Lexus' "Relentless (Passionate) Pursuit of Perfection", and I'm looking forward to the next one for the same reasons.
There is a picture of my burnished gold monotone Rx over on CL in the RX300 gallery.
Does anyone else know about the changes?
Got a few minutes? Here's some food for thought:
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48748&highlight=rx330
I am sure it is based on the basic design of the vehicle. I have a BMW 528i and tried it and it does not happen.
I'll keep the RX300 and every time I open the back window, I'll just start screaming " Blackhawk down, Blackhawk down" !!!!
Congratulations. Enjoy your new ride.
BTW, How were those 18's? What brand? Quiet? Smooth? Handling? Gonna get some?
I know they were going for a car-like ride, but in my opinion, it is not a very good ride. Too jittery for my taste. The high center of gravity just does not seem to do well with the Goodyear Integritys. Of course I am trying not to compare this with my other vehicle which is a BMW, but I am sure bias is creeping in.
I travel a lot, and I rent SUVs when I am on the road, so some of the comparisons is against like vehicles.
The risks involved in financing are already accounted for in the interest rates charged and are covered by insurance. Paying cash also has the drawback that the dealer has to report your transaction to the Treasury Department (anything over $10K).
tidester
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This seems a silly, anserine proposition that's inconsistent with reason or logic in a market economy. Cash is still King, especially in light of the low financing available to anyone with decent credit (potential Lexus owners, maybe?).
I suggest, also, that most buyers these days are well informed, with a high level of awareness of many issues regarding their purchases.
Actually, anyone with an Internet connection, half a brain, and an interest in saving money can easily locate information regarding most products, including vehicles for sale, both new and used. Little of an auto dealer's pricing and profit is hidden today.
dannysf, please buy your Lexus quickly!
The finance people often will give a spiff to the dealer to help sweeten the pot. Together with fast settlement terms on CPO vehicles there is litle, if any, hassle in a finace deal.
An actaul "wad of greenbacks" signals the DEA/Treasury Dept. cash disclouse forms, obviates a run to the 'vault'/bank drop.
And let's not kid ourselves about how many folks are 'wise' to the hidden profits. How many posts have you seen here asking "should I get the dealer offered environmnetal protection package/extrended warranty/prepaid oil-change et cetera et cetera...
The more numbers a "finance & insurance" person can get on the paperwork, the greater the dealer's profit is going to be.
There's a quote from the "Millionaire Next Door" is this thread about used luxury cars being purchased from private parties, and I suspect there is alot truth in it...
While I do not doubt that in many sales situations there is value to 'showing the money', car salespeople are trained to push the dubious value of add-ons, a behavior that is not as common in other situations.
If you are a cash buyer, trust that most Lexus owners maintain/don't abuse their vehicles you might do VERY well checking out the deals at a well know on-line auction site-- of course the inconvenience factor is quite high as well, desireable vehicel might be clear across the country. Sales there are much closer to wholesale.
Each and every time I go to buy something in an electronics store I begin by telling the salesperson that if s/he starts the dialogue about maintenance contracts or extended warranty I will turn around and walk out. More than half of the time I end up walking out, the "hidden" profits are too good from them to ignore.
Same with dealing with the dealer's contracts/finance manager, if you pay cash he doesn't get to take up your time trying to sell you the "extras" for which he gets a commission.
Several times I have actually been offered a really sweet deal, low interest rate, etc, in return for financing, often with the statement, you can go ahead and pay it off in a month or two if you wish. If there are not hidden profits in this then what, pray tell, is his/her modivation?
This thinking is absurd. Lose interest in selling a car because it's a cash deal? Unbelievable.
I'm not telling my kid, "They'll lose interest in selling you that car if you want to pay cash. You should pay more money for the car by borrowing money from them, if you want them to remain interested in selling you that car."
My parents never once financed an automobile during their 45 years of marriage. Nobody lost interest in their cash.
Lexus didn't lose interest in mine either. I plopped my checkbook on the salesman's desk and I haggled the best price I could.
MSRP $37,180 plus TTL. I paid $33,500 plus TTL
for my 2002 RX. I financed nothing through them.
A rarity? I see one everytime I look in the mirror. LOL
I never said thay were "wise" to anything.I said, anyone with an Internet connection, half a brain, and an interest in saving money can easily locate information regarding most products.
So they come here and ask "should I get the dealer offered environmnetal protection package/extrended warranty/prepaid oil-change et cetera et cetera..."
We answer them and they have located information with an Internet connection, and half a brain.
Hopefully, they saved some money.
Get that Lex, danny. Hurry, aargh.
Wwest, sometimes when you want to buy something at the big box electronic store, it'll be mysteriously out of stock when you tell them you aren't interested in the extended warranty. The cure is to feign interest, and then change your mind at the check-out when you actually have the item in your hands. Or so I read on the net somewhere :-)
Steve
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I whole-heartedly agree, cash comes in any form, but it is a rare person, indeed, who has the wherewithall to pay cash for a Lexus.
In the 70's, my brother pulled a "Tony Montana" for a Ford econoline van. My sisters and I were with him. He was a total smart-*ss, dropping that wad of cash on the salesman and, embarrassingly, came up a few dollars shy. We siblings had to empty our pockets to make up for the shortfall.
We still laugh at that story and rib
him about our "ownership" of that van.