I am looking to buy a 2002 RX300. I will need to carry surfboards (longboards) or kayaks on the roof (will be adding Thule roofracks). It seems that the rear spoiler will create some problems and smash against items on the roof. Does anyone have a similiar experience? Does it detach?
If you open the trunk lid you will see some rubber inserts where the rear spoiler ends. I guess these inserts cover the nuts that hold the spoiler in place. After spoiler is taken off there should be holes on the trunk to be seen from outside...
I mentioned last week that my steering wheel was squeaking. I brought it in yesterday and they lubricated the steering wheel boot. The service consultant said it's pretty common. Anybody else have this problem? What's up with Lexus QA/QC? I'm getting tired of going to the dealer. A few months ago, I had powering steering leak. I only have 3,300 miles on the car! Anyways, I enjoyed the ES 300 loaner!
More and more, it's beginning to look as if Lexus has lost their way. I literally never heard of problems of this type in the 90 to 98 versions.
Economy down and poor sales figures and having to provide financial support for single marque dealers (and their non-profitable service shops)having an adverse impact?
Lexus is the best selling luxury marque in the country- sales figures are up significantly on a YTD basis for the ES and SC, pretty even for the IS and RX, and down marginally for the LS and GS series, the LS having set records on its 2001 redo last year, and the GS in its final year. So I'd say that is not a factor in what YOU perceive to be a QC/QA issue. ~alpha
Lexus sales are doing great as the poster above indicated. Even with an older design, the RX is holding its own and more against the new competition such as MDX, Pilot, Liberty, RR FreeLoader, and even it's less expensive stablemate, the Highlander (with standard I4, cloth, etc.).
Sure, Lexus had to become more "flexible" when pricing out the RX to compete. I was a few hours away from taking delivery on a long-awaited MDX about 18 months ago when I walked thru a Lexus showroom to pick up my LS400 from their service dept. By the time I left, a few hours later, I had signed a contract for the "newly competitive-priced" RX instead.
As for "single-marque" (ya gotta love it!) service bays being unprofitable and gathering dust - not at any Lexus dealer I've been to. Three in my general area have just enlarged their service depts to handle the crowds. Got to inspect and re-torque all them bolts don't ya know...
That brings up a point, WW - how are you determing that Lexus service departments are unprofitable? 'Cause you don't buy an A/C filter there every 3 years?
I'm too lazy to search backwards, but I told my dealer about the popping noise around the sunroof and told them toyota had a TSB on the HL and they FIXED it. Has been about a month with hot weather and no noise, thanks to whoever posted the tip about the TSB
What other excuse/explanation can you think for a marque as prestigous as Lexus gouging their service customers with needless scheduled maintenance services (inspect and retorque them bolts?) that are not even RECOMMENDED by the factory?
You own a Porsche, and you think Lexus gouges their service customers. All dealership service providers take advantage at times, and will recommend maintenance "just to be safe". Lexus is no better or worse than most "prestige" import service centers when it comes to charging for what they do.
And if, as you claim, Lexus is gouging for service, wouldn't that then make them profitable? I believe your baseless accusation boarders on libel. Get real, wwest.
Less sniping at each other here, please. How about a nice link to the 2004 Lexus RX 330 prelaunch vehicle instead? Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Local Porsche dealer also carries Jaguar and Audi, Audi alone should support their service department.
Lexus MUST gouge their service customers becuase the product is TOO DAMN RELIABLE. And having enough money to buy an upscale Lexus vehicle usually means that person can more readily recognize a scam.
That picture shows that the 330 has actually slipped into the stationwagon land of the 1970's. My wife would not let me consider a 300 because she said it looked like a stationwagon. I believe now the transformation is complete. We ended up in the QX4 which I possibly like even better than I would have the RX300.
When I mentioned my squeaking steering wheel and powering steering leak on my 2002 RX, I wasn't referring to the dealer's QA/QC...I was referring to factory's QA/QC. I know Lexus/Toyota makes very reliable vehicles, but I'm disappointed that I had to waste my time dealing with those minor problems that should've been addressed by the factory's QA/QC staff prior to shipping the vehicle. I didn't know I was going to ignite any sparks.
Especially on a car board. Think of how important the lowly spark plug is!
So, the spy photo makes it seem like Lexus is copycatting BMW's highly successful X5. (I wonder how many people are suffering in the rest of their lives just to own this vehicle. I see them EVERYWHERE here in SoCal.) The RX330- I like the larger wheels and don't care for the lines around the doors. The rest is too covered up to see the real deal. But, my first reaction was, "X5".
As to the station wagon comment, anyone who thinks an "SUV" is any more than a baby boomer station wagon, is really kidding themselves. I cringe when I have to use the term "SUV". I was at Lowes buying a large item and the guy asks if I have a large enough car. I had to respond by using "SUV". I don't mind telling you it really bugged me.
My parents have a Black 99 RX 300 with a roof rack and sunroof. There is no Sunroof visor, besides the pop up one. At moderate speeds, say about 40mph up, there is a lot of wind noise, mostly of the "howling" type. All the reviews of the car i read praise the quietness of the car. What can be done to make it quieter? thank you.
"Navigation Technologies, the leading provider of digital map data for vehicle navigation, Internet/wireless and business applications, today announced that eight car models introduced navigation systems for the first time. Each model features NAVTECH(R) data, which currently powers all U.S. automotive navigation systems. Joining 43 models already offering navigation, the models newly featuring NAVTECH data include the Jaguar X-Type, Lexus IS300, Lexus ES300, Lincoln Blackwood, Mercedes-Benz G-Class, Nissan Maxima, Oldsmobile Aurora, and Toyota Camry."
Doesn't Navigation Technologies also supply the digital map data for the Lexus RX300?
Amazing how successful they are with all the problems you cite.
I have never reported ANY dissatisfaction with the Lexus map data, ALL of the problems I have reported have to do with (Denso's??)firmware design flaws.
I'm curious what you do when you go to turn the car off. Do you leave the a/c on or shut it off?
I've always turned it off before shutting the car off, but Lexus seems to have a program in place that gradually brings the speed of the fan up when the a/c is left engaged at engine shut off. Is there a difference to the load on the compressor if you turn the a/c off before shutting down the engine? Transversely, is it bad to start the car with the a/c on already? Any feedback is appreciated.
Another poll type of question-- Does your RX300 ever need to have oil added between changes?
The climate control system's "command" to activate the A/C compressor via the electromagnetic clutch is sent to the engine ECU and then from there to the clutch "driver". The engine ECU will never activate the clutch until the engine has been started and running for a few milliseconds. The engine ECU will also interrupt the clutch command on sensing WOT (gas to the max), or a water jacket nearing over-temperature.
So no harm can come from leaving the A/C in whatever mode you typcially use it.
On start-up, especially on a hot day the A/C blower motor will not start up until the A/C evaporator has had a chance to cool to some degree. This is so you will not be discomforted by a lot of HOT air hitting you in the face.
When the A/C compressor first starts up there is a delay, measured in seconds, before liquid refrigerant becomes available to cool the A/C evaporator. Then as the A/C evaporator declines to a predefined level of "cool" the blower starts up "slow" and then it's speed will continue to increase as the A/C evaporator declines toward its design target of 34F
Of about a dozen Lexii, including Bill Gates 90 LS, a 91 LS now with over 100K miles and a 92 with 80k miles, I have NEVER had to add oil between changes. I put in about 5.5 qts and tyically drain about 5 qts when I change oil and filter.
Also absolutely NONE of these vehicles have EVER had the diff'l, tranx, steering, radiator, or brake, fluids drained and replenished.
The only "exception" I know of is about a quart of antifreeze was added to the 92 about two years ago.
BL (before Lexus) I had to change out my radiator fluid, anti-freeze/water mixture, because after about 2-3 years it would not test good to the level of the wintertime climate.
It appears that the engine coolant "flow path" in the/any Lexus is so well sealed from the various contaminants that might find their way in that the only remaining problem is loss of coolant due to evaporation.
Addressing the need to replace perfectly good fluids otherwise to a known dealer advocate is beneath my dignity. If you can convince YOUR customers to help put YOUR kids through college then more power to you.
In my own personal cars I always change fluids regularly. If nothing else, brake fluid alone should be changed as it is hygroscopic.
And, of course, transmission fluid does get heat-cycled and does lose its' effectiveness over time.
I spend a huge amount of money on my personal cars, especially the ones that I have restored/am restoring. I just spent over $700 completely renovating the braking system on my '61 Vauxhall Cresta. But I can see how $30-40 a year to keep moisture from entering that braking system could be viewed as frivolous. After all, a reliable braking system is nowhere nearly as important as frivolous nitpicking of an AC system, right?
Brake fluid is VERY hygroscopic, the newest ones, even the best ones, are even more hygroscopic. But now would you please be so kind as to advise me as to how, once the fluid is installed in a vehicle's brake system, any moisture at all manages to "migrate" into a brake system that is sealed against such extremely high (3000 PSI and up, plus the hydraulic "hammering" from the ABS pulsations) brake application fluid pressures.
I currently own two 1978 Porsche 911's, one with only about 90k and the other with 170k miles. I have owned the 90k one since 83/37k and never bothered with the brake fluid. The only problem I have experienced with either of those was caliper pistons seizing due to o-ring wear. Both were recently upgraded to the new Boxster front calipers and the 88 rear calipers.
Have you even bothered to check with the people who make your tranx fluid? I have little doubt that they would really like to sell you even more but I would bet money that their basic honesty will prevail and they will inform you that tranx fluid does not need to be changed out in anything less than 100 to 120k miles unless it has been over-heated. Not heated to within the range of its design mind you, or heated and cooled 25,000 times or something of that nature.
Now, I basically don't have any problem at all with a SKILLED mechanic or technician "messing" with my tranny or brake fluid, but it has become quite clear to me that not even Lexus dealers use skilled, expensive, help for routine tasks.
In the end I would sooner take my chances with whatever level of moisture may sneak its way into my system than trust some ex-high school football jock with my brakes.
"$30-40 a year to keep (Keep?) moisture from entering". If you're only spending $30-40 a year then you are NOT doing a very good job of completely replenishing your brake fluid. Water and brake fluid DO NOT MIX. If there is water in your brake fluid it is "pooled" in in the bottom of the caliper and in small spaces/crevices in the bottom of the cylinder bore, and around the pistons in your brake calipers and the only way to remove it is a thorough disassembly and cleaning of all pistons and calipers.
If you are just flushing new fluid through the system and thinking that will remove any moisture, or even most of it, then you are not accomplishing that which you expect.
Flushing WILL remove gas bubbles which "float" to the top of the caliper, that's what the procedure and the various mechanical "accommodations are there for. Simple brake "flushing" at least as most of us understand the term and often make use of, will not typically remove even a minor portion of moisture (if there really is any) trapped within the brake system.
Before I went to oil change, I used to make a scratch on the oil filter. When I had my car oil changed in a shop, I usualy stood at a distance watching...
Seems to be a bit of confusion between types of brake fluid on the part of the author of a previous post re. hygroscopic brake fluid. Dot 3 and 4 fluids are glycol based and therefore CAN and DO absorb and retain moisture. This moisture depresses the bp of the fluid which can then boil and affect braking when hot. The moisture can enter through the pores of rubber brake hoses. GM claims they use a special impervious material and therefore do not recommend brake fluid change until 100k miles. Ford et al recomend changes. Dot 5 fluid is silicone base, non-hygroscopic and therefore does not retain moisture. Moisture in these systems drops out at the lowest point(s) in the system.
I am not trying to to get into a p_ _'ng contest with any members of this forum- just trying to elicit the facts. Does Lexus use Dot 4 or Dot 5?
One of my two remote keys have stopped working. Changed battery, and still no joy. When I press the key functions, I see the little red light on the key pad light up. Took to dealer yesterday, they said "it is in the electronics of the car. Please bring the vehicle back when you can leave it longer and we will provide a loaner". Nice, but I still have to drive 1 1/2 hours to dealer. I would think if one key operates the remote functions and the other does not, it would be in the key, not the car. Has anybody else had this problem with keys?
Not sure about Lexus, but Chrysler and Porsche key/remotes each have different codes. Each driver/key can uniquely program seat memory as/when driver door is unlocked. etc.
My guess is the "rolling" security code in the key that doesn't work has somehow gotten out of sequence with its master.
Hygroscopic means it will "suck" gaseous water out of the air, literally. If you leave a can of brake fluid open for a period of time it will soon become so contaminated with moisture so as to be useless. Its boiling point will be below the normal operating temperature of the system during severe braking.
Boiling = gas = spongy brakes.
Hygroscopic vs mixing vs suspension.
This is my grey area. Does the fact that it "attacks" moisture mean that it will forever "mix" with that water?
It has always been my impression that the water will evenually separate (due to physics {mix ratio?}, pressure, heat??) and pool at the lowest point possible.
I'm old enough to remember when some manufacturers did call them "emergency" brakes, and they were pretty useless then too. Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
DOT #3 and 4 are glycol based - meaning they have quite high boiling temperatures. Water (contamination) won't separate out on standing (it's a solution, not a mixture). However, the water does lower the boiling point though the major cause of gases in DOT #3 & 4 is chemical breakdown of the brake fluid unrelated to the water.
DOT #5, on the other hand, is silicone based, has a higher boiling point and is not hygroscopic. In this case, water contamination can separate out and water can find its way to the brake shoes as it is heavier than silicone.
I found this source that will tell you more than you ever wanted know about brakd fluid!
Thanks for your response. I know what you mean...the parking brakes don't seem to hold well on steep hills. When parking on a hill, I leave it in Neutral, set the parking brake while applying the regular brakes, let go of the regular brakes to let the RX roll a little before the parking brake engages, and then put it into Park. Otherwise, the gears lock up and that's not good!
I have heard that old saw many many times and I admit I don't understand the reasoning behind it. Using the gearbox, low or reverse mostly, to "hold" the vehicle on an incline can't be any harder on the gears and bearings than applying 300 HP, can it?
You mean the automatic transmission's parking "pawl" with the "weight" of the vehicle against it, gets stuck in the park position.
Common problem, I get around that one by turning a wheel into the curb (if one exists), letting it roll up against it, then put the transmission in park.
The parking brake seems to hold just fine with the nose downhill, but backwards it hardly ever does the job.
I don't have a curb nor a deer in my sloped driveway, so I'll just have to continue what I've been doing. The interesting thing is...my much less expensive 2002 Jetta doesn't seem to have this problem. I also haven't been back to the VW dealer since we drove the car off the lot. I've already had two warranty visits with the RX (Lexus QA/QC?).
I am considering leasing a RX300. I am unsure of the lease duration. In an ideal world, I would like to lease it for a year given my interest in the '03 LX470.
I would wait until September/October for the '03 LX470; however, I need transportation for my wife beginning in August '02. We currently have a LS400, and are familiar with the RX300 as a courtesy car.
What lease deals have you seen on the '02 RX300? Also, do you have any recommendations for someone that wants a '03 LX470, but needs a car now?
The effects of water contaminating the brake fluid are not limited to lowering of the BP. Corrosion and pitting can occur in very sensitive components in the ABS system.
Buy a used SUV from a private party and then trade it in on the LX470 when the time comes.
As a replacement for our LS400 my wife is perfectly happy with our 01 AWD RX300. I'm quite sure she will not be willing to go back to an LS.
Every one seems to be aware of an upcoming refreshening (April 03) of the RX/HL series, so be aware that an RX/HL investment at this point in time may be a poor choice when it comes to resale or trade-in time.
I would suggest a used 01 or 02 ML320 or X5 3.0. Those would give you the feel of a REAL SUV, the RX/HL is predominantly FWD (has your wife ever experienced torque steer?) and you will find it much easier to transition to a RWD/AWD LX from either of these.
Comments
Economy down and poor sales figures and having to provide financial support for single marque dealers (and their non-profitable service shops)having an adverse impact?
~alpha
Sure, Lexus had to become more "flexible" when pricing out the RX to compete. I was a few hours away from taking delivery on a long-awaited MDX about 18 months ago when I walked thru a Lexus showroom to pick up my LS400 from their service dept. By the time I left, a few hours later, I had signed a contract for the "newly competitive-priced" RX instead.
As for "single-marque" (ya gotta love it!) service bays being unprofitable and gathering dust - not at any Lexus dealer I've been to. Three in my general area have just enlarged their service depts to handle the crowds. Got to inspect and re-torque all them bolts don't ya know...
That brings up a point, WW - how are you determing that Lexus service departments are unprofitable? 'Cause you don't buy an A/C filter there every 3 years?
And if, as you claim, Lexus is gouging for service, wouldn't that then make them profitable? I believe your baseless accusation boarders on libel. Get real, wwest.
Steve
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Lexus MUST gouge their service customers becuase the product is TOO DAMN RELIABLE. And having enough money to buy an upscale Lexus vehicle usually means that person can more readily recognize a scam.
I don't think that follows. Impecuniousness fosters vigilant attention to spending often lacking in those more well off.
tidester
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Steve
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So, the spy photo makes it seem like Lexus is copycatting BMW's highly successful X5. (I wonder how many people are suffering in the rest of their lives just to own this vehicle. I see them EVERYWHERE here in SoCal.)
The RX330- I like the larger wheels and don't care for the lines around the doors. The rest is too covered up to see the real deal. But, my first reaction was, "X5".
As to the station wagon comment, anyone who thinks an "SUV" is any more than a baby boomer station wagon, is really kidding themselves. I cringe when I have to use the term "SUV". I was at Lowes buying a large item and the guy asks if I have a large enough car. I had to respond by using "SUV". I don't mind telling you it really bugged me.
Each model features NAVTECH(R) data, which currently powers all U.S. automotive navigation systems. Joining 43 models already offering navigation, the models newly featuring NAVTECH data include the Jaguar X-Type, Lexus IS300, Lexus ES300, Lincoln Blackwood, Mercedes-Benz G-Class, Nissan Maxima, Oldsmobile Aurora, and Toyota Camry."
Doesn't Navigation Technologies also supply the digital map data for the Lexus RX300?
Amazing how successful they are with all the problems you cite.
I've always turned it off before shutting the car off, but Lexus seems to have a program in place that gradually brings the speed of the fan up when the a/c is left engaged at engine shut off.
Is there a difference to the load on the compressor if you turn the a/c off before shutting down the engine? Transversely, is it bad to start the car with the a/c on already? Any feedback is appreciated.
Another poll type of question--
Does your RX300 ever need to have oil added between changes?
So no harm can come from leaving the A/C in whatever mode you typcially use it.
On start-up, especially on a hot day the A/C blower motor will not start up until the A/C evaporator has had a chance to cool to some degree. This is so you will not be discomforted by a lot of HOT air hitting you in the face.
When the A/C compressor first starts up there is a delay, measured in seconds, before liquid refrigerant becomes available to cool the A/C evaporator. Then as the A/C evaporator declines to a predefined level of "cool" the blower starts up "slow" and then it's speed will continue to increase as the A/C evaporator declines toward its design target of 34F
Of about a dozen Lexii, including Bill Gates 90 LS, a 91 LS now with over 100K miles and a 92 with 80k miles, I have NEVER had to add oil between changes. I put in about 5.5 qts and tyically drain about 5 qts when I change oil and filter.
Also absolutely NONE of these vehicles have EVER had the diff'l, tranx, steering, radiator, or brake, fluids drained and replenished.
The only "exception" I know of is about a quart of antifreeze was added to the 92 about two years ago.
Yikes!
Bill
Pete
It appears that the engine coolant "flow path" in the/any Lexus is so well sealed from the various contaminants that might find their way in that the only remaining problem is loss of coolant due to evaporation.
Addressing the need to replace perfectly good fluids otherwise to a known dealer advocate is beneath my dignity. If you can convince YOUR customers to help put YOUR kids through college then more power to you.
In my own personal cars I always change fluids regularly. If nothing else, brake fluid alone should be changed as it is hygroscopic.
And, of course, transmission fluid does get heat-cycled and does lose its' effectiveness over time.
I spend a huge amount of money on my personal cars, especially the ones that I have restored/am restoring. I just spent over $700 completely renovating the braking system on my '61 Vauxhall Cresta. But I can see how $30-40 a year to keep moisture from entering that braking system could be viewed as frivolous. After all, a reliable braking system is nowhere nearly as important as frivolous nitpicking of an AC system, right?
Bill
I currently own two 1978 Porsche 911's, one with only about 90k and the other with 170k miles. I have owned the 90k one since 83/37k and never bothered with the brake fluid. The only problem I have experienced with either of those was caliper pistons seizing due to o-ring wear. Both were recently upgraded to the new Boxster front calipers and the 88 rear calipers.
Have you even bothered to check with the people who make your tranx fluid? I have little doubt that they would really like to sell you even more but I would bet money that their basic honesty will prevail and they will inform you that tranx fluid does not need to be changed out in anything less than 100 to 120k miles unless it has been over-heated. Not heated to within the range of its design mind you, or heated and cooled 25,000 times or something of that nature.
Now, I basically don't have any problem at all with a SKILLED mechanic or technician "messing" with my tranny or brake fluid, but it has become quite clear to me that not even Lexus dealers use skilled, expensive, help for routine tasks.
In the end I would sooner take my chances with whatever level of moisture may sneak its way into my system than trust some ex-high school football jock with my brakes.
"$30-40 a year to keep (Keep?) moisture from entering". If you're only spending $30-40 a year then you are NOT doing a very good job of completely replenishing your brake fluid. Water and brake fluid DO NOT MIX. If there is water in your brake fluid it is "pooled" in in the bottom of the caliper and in small spaces/crevices in the bottom of the cylinder bore, and around the pistons in your brake calipers and the only way to remove it is a thorough disassembly and cleaning of all pistons and calipers.
If you are just flushing new fluid through the system and thinking that will remove any moisture, or even most of it, then you are not accomplishing that which you expect.
Flushing WILL remove gas bubbles which "float" to the top of the caliper, that's what the procedure and the various mechanical "accommodations are there for. Simple brake "flushing" at least as most of us understand the term and often make use of, will not typically remove even a minor portion of moisture (if there really is any) trapped within the brake system.
Unless you see them actually do it you likely would never know.
Ford et al recomend changes.
Dot 5 fluid is silicone base, non-hygroscopic and therefore does not retain moisture. Moisture in these systems drops out at the lowest point(s) in the system.
I am not trying to to get into a p_ _'ng contest with any members of this forum- just trying to elicit the facts.
Does Lexus use Dot 4 or Dot 5?
My guess is the "rolling" security code in the key that doesn't work has somehow gotten out of sequence with its master.
Hygroscopic means it will "suck" gaseous water out of the air, literally. If you leave a can of brake fluid open for a period of time it will soon become so contaminated with moisture so as to be useless. Its boiling point will be below the normal operating temperature of the system during severe braking.
Boiling = gas = spongy brakes.
Hygroscopic vs mixing vs suspension.
This is my grey area. Does the fact that it "attacks" moisture mean that it will forever "mix" with that water?
It has always been my impression that the water will evenually separate (due to physics {mix ratio?}, pressure, heat??) and pool at the lowest point possible.
Okay, tidester, you're up, no talking down now.
Rear only, and not very effective for stopping except as a last resort.
Steve
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DOT #5, on the other hand, is silicone based, has a higher boiling point and is not hygroscopic. In this case, water contamination can separate out and water can find its way to the brake shoes as it is heavier than silicone.
I found this source that will tell you more than you ever wanted know about brakd fluid!
tidester
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SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
You mean the automatic transmission's parking "pawl" with the "weight" of the vehicle against it, gets stuck in the park position.
Common problem, I get around that one by turning a wheel into the curb (if one exists), letting it roll up against it, then put the transmission in park.
The parking brake seems to hold just fine with the nose downhill, but backwards it hardly ever does the job.
I would wait until September/October for the '03 LX470; however, I need transportation for my wife beginning in August '02. We currently have a LS400, and are familiar with the RX300 as a courtesy car.
What lease deals have you seen on the '02 RX300? Also, do you have any recommendations for someone that wants a '03 LX470, but needs a car now?
Your help is appreciated.
Thanks!
As a replacement for our LS400 my wife is perfectly happy with our 01 AWD RX300. I'm quite sure she will not be willing to go back to an LS.
Every one seems to be aware of an upcoming refreshening (April 03) of the RX/HL series, so be aware that an RX/HL investment at this point in time may be a poor choice when it comes to resale or trade-in time.
I would suggest a used 01 or 02 ML320 or X5 3.0. Those would give you the feel of a REAL SUV, the RX/HL is predominantly FWD (has your wife ever experienced torque steer?) and you will find it much easier to transition to a RWD/AWD LX from either of these.