Lexus RX 300

wwest

In describing their AWD system Porsche says the PSM "Trac" (apologies to Lexus) functionality uses the ABS to control differential turning rates right to left or left to right, (front and/or rear) or in a case wherein all four wheels tend to lose traction. Their viscous clutch is used to route more torque to the front only if BOTH rear wheels (partially?) lose traction.

The Porsche setup is virtually the same as the RX except in reverse, the transmission output directly drives the rear axles.

gdanczyk

It looks like we are at the cutting edge of AWD technology. I'm glad to hear Porsche has a similiar system, thanks wwest!

wwest

to say the Chrysler Town and Country Minivan, and others in this "stable", have had this setup for a long time now, but with a direct admission that it is basically a FWD vehicle.

gdanczyk

For all practical purposes, the AWD RX-300 is AWD. There are a thousand ways to build a mousetrap, but they all get the job done. I am very confident that the AWD RX-300 accomplishes its intended goal. I've passed a couple of 4WD vehicles through Donner Pass (on the way to Tahoe) that have gone into the ditch because they didn't engage their 4WD before they got into slippery areas. I wouldn't want to risk the safety of going out and locking hubs like some other 4WD systems demand either. So, overall, the RX-300 seems like the best AWD vehicle for me.

wwest

Those 4WD vehicles in the ditch on donner pass were much more likely there because they WERE in 4WD.

Many (MOST?) 4WD, AWD, & FWD vehicle owners simply do not realize that although these vehicles exhibit better traction for accelerating in slippery conditions than would a front engine RWD, when it comes time to stop or turn the laws of physics only pay adverse "attention" to these aspects.

imanoj

What adverse affect it will have in slippery condition for 2 wheel drive RX 300. Usually I do not travel much on these areas, but sometimes I do go to the places with these conditions. Is it advisable to avoid those areas or just be slow and patient ?

wwest

In any vehicle if you get in trouble, start to skid, the ability to recover is based on whatever remaining traction you might have with the roadbed.

In a traditional rear wheel drive vehicle the forces you need to "exert" on the roadbed are divided between the front and the rear wheels. The front tire "contact patch" can be used exclusively to help correct or control the direction of the car, simultaneous with the rear wheels, via engine "lagging" torque slowing or braking the vehicle. Unless the rear wheels are locked, not turning at all, they will contribute a steering force which will help correct the direction of the vehicle. It might help if you think of the engine braking, however slight, applied to the rear wheels as an "anchor" being drug behind the vehicle. The only real short-coming of this arrangement is the fact that the traditional RWD vehicle has more weight in the front than the rear. The Porsche 911 and the early VW Beattle were almost ideal vehicles in this respect.

A FWD vehicle in the very same circumstance has only the front wheels' contact patch for applying these forces to the roadbed. In this circumstance the rear wheels on your FWD RX are only there to hold up the weight in the back. And now if you can imagine, if you will, the effects of engine braking via the front wheels. Like throwing an anchor out in front of you and hoping its "drag" doesn't cause you to pivot left or right.

That's why most shops refuse to install studded tires on just the driven wheels of a FWD vehicle, or an AWD with front drive bias. Adding additional traction bias to the front with studs increases the engine braking and thus exaderates the pivoting effect.

Many of the FWD vehicle manufacturers are attempting, in various ways, to reduce these engine decel torque effects. Cadillac uses an over-running clutch so the front wheels do not "drive" the engine, and the RX automatically shifts the transmission into overdrive to minimize these effects.

The rule is: Don't do, or try to do, anything with your FWD, AWD or 4WD vehicle, of whatever mechanical arrangement, that you wouldn't do with any normal vehicle. THAT should keep you out of trouble.

mooretorque

Excellent, succinct explanations, ww! Down here in Arkansas, we just put it as "4WD just gets ya stuck deeper in the woods". (That ought to get all the folks who've been up the Rubicon on my case!)

gimpyrx

You get it,you are on your own.
NO Warranty repairs,not even if glycol is in the oil.

Nice customer "NO SERVICE"

No more lexus for me,third one not a charm.
Just waiting on my court date.

izabelajohn

gimpyrx, I understand your anger, but could you please give us some more detail?
How did the sludge manifest itself? Why is the dealer refusing to repair the problem under warranty? What kind of repairs are necessary?

gimpyrx

Go to search,and put in "engine sludge" have a ball. I will post my final outcome.

gsenthil

Hi,

I need to give my 2001 RX300 Black Silversport for 5000 mile service. WHich is a better location? Tacoma/Bellevue/Lynnwood?

I am new to Seattle- I bought it from Scottsdale Lexus on Sep 7 with 1200 miles (demo model) for about $125 above invoice with the Silversport package and the crossbars and other minor accessories. Just wondering..is this a good price? Its definitely a good car and gets comments from all my friends..LOVE the brushed aluminium.

Senthil

wwest

If you believe that you need service at 5000 miles you might as well get serviced (raped) by the best.

If you want to wait until the REAL service interval then I would suggest Lynnwood. I think Bellevue and Tacoma (fife) are under the same ownership.

tonychrys

West? Raped? Why are you so viscious? He won't get raped because the service is free at 5k.

But I suppose you knew that too.

rmorin2

My '00 RX just returned from the 30K service. Total cost was $365. About $100 in parts the rest was labor.

Although the Bridgestones still have lots of treadlife left, I am probably going to put on a set of Michelin Cross Terrains next week. Sears matched Tire Rack price of $124. Would appreciate any feedback from RX owners who have installed the Cross Terrains. Thanks.

drew_

Now now, let's not get snippy. We're all here to help, and for fun! :-)


Drew
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wwest

Only if your vehicle comes away from the dealer with fewer problems/needs than when it went in.

tonychrys

"Only if your vehicle comes away from the dealer with fewer problems/needs than when it went in. "

What the heck are you babbling about now? It's a brand new vehicle according to the orginal question. Lexus includes the 1k and 5k services for free. If there is something wrong beyond normal service, then it's covered under the 4 year b-to-b warranty. If you are implying that a normal wear item would be bad at 5k, then that could easily be argued to be covered under warranty.

Any more words of wisdom?

wwest

This person asked where the vehicle should be serviced and I responded accordingly. I know of instances personally, and those of friends, wherein vehicles came away from Lexus of Bellevue with more problems than they went in with. Sure, some of these problems were still covered by Lexus' warranty, but somebody still had to take the time to return the vehicle for more "service".

I recommended Lexus of Lynnwood, not because I have heard good things about them, but because I haven't heard any bad things.

Now, isn't the 5000 mile service "reserved" for ROUGH SERVICE vehicles? You seem to be saying taking it in at 5000 is fine since Lexus is paying for it, but what about the next service interval that isn't paid for, it would normally be at 15,000 miles.

tonychrys

It's been well documented here you have had bad service experiences with your local Lexus dealer. That's a shame and it does indeed happen. But all the anecdotal and statistical information I have tells me this is the exception rather than the rule.

Everything I've had done on my vehicle which has about 11k miles has been done for free so far, except for an oil change at 10k which was my choice. Oil change, tire rotation and vehicle inspection at 5K: free. Inspection revealed coating flaking on one of the luggage crossbars: new crossbars for free. The key here is that the Lexus techs at my service places know this vehicle and know when something is a "common occurence". They go ahead and fix it without even questioning it. They know how this vehicle is suppose to sound, perform and react.

They never suggest "severe" service routines based on my usage. The only things I plan to do are oil at 5k intervals (either change it myself or have a local mechanic/Toyota dealer do it) and bring it for major/minor service at 15k intervals.

Of course, your mileage may vary.

jeffmust2

Tony, you might not be aware of a New Fund that started this week on the Lexus LS Board...

It's for a poster on this board; I won't ID him. But, should you choose to contribute -

The first dollar contributed goes towards buying him the DVD upgrade for Lexus Navigation systems that's been reported available shortly. If there's a single chance in a thousand that it'll cure his hatred for his Lexus Navi, it'll be well worth the buck. Gosh, everyone else with this system loves it and understands that no GPS/mapping system is perfect - except this guy.

The second dollar contributed will go towards buying him a roll of paper towels with instructions printed on each one:

a. "At first sign of windshield fogging, rip off this piece and wipe surface in a clockwise motion.
b. Select A/C at 75 degrees F. & Defrost Windshield button
c. Turn HVAC fan control to HI
d. Finally...GET OVER IT!"

The third and final dollar contribution will go towards a general fund to procure resistors, Outside Air Temp (OAT) sensors, wiring diagrams, electrical tape, spliced wire connectors, etc. so he may forever continue to modify his Lexus vehicles electrical systems and tell us all about it, over...and...over...and over again.

On second thought...forget it and contribute instead to the Red Cross or other charity of your choice.

tonychrys

Good to hear from you Jeff. You must avoid the this board for the same reason I have too lately. I didn't know the virus had spread ;-)

I also heard this virus spread to the SC430 board at one time also. Mr_Shiftright "Lexus SC 430--Pros and Cons" May 9, 2001 7:58am
I believe this virus contributed to the demise of this particular board.

WRT the Red Cross, I gave blood. I'm a universal donor and they like my tomato juice.

mooretorque

Certainly is hot in here........think I'll just try to stay under the radar and reply to rmorin2's request as far as CrossTerrains:

Far superior tire. MUCH better steering feel (better than the Bridgestone RE030s on my GS430!), and absolute resolution of problems with directional stability that had many folks with RXs back at the dealer time and again for re-alignments, various and sundry diddling with the front end, etc etc. Appears that the Integritys have none. You'll be very pleasantly surprised. Also, no louder nor compromise in Lexus ride quality with the Michelins, despite a very trucky tread pattern.

No downside except more expensive than the almost free Integritys.

2001rx

Thanks, sirfile, for the accurate info on the AWD system. It should clarify some confusion which exists on this Board. It confirms and amplifies what the Lexus Owners' Newletter said a few months ago. It 's important to note that the 2001 RX300 AWD system based on VSC and Trac is significantly different that previous model year systems, and that comments based on technical details for a 2000 RX AWD system are probably inaccurate.

drew_

Let's please stick to discussing the vehicle only and not criticise other Town Hall participants, whoever they may be and whatever other discussion topics that they read. Okay? :-) I really don't want to have to start removing posts, but I will do so if this continues as it doesn't promote a welcoming environment. Try to see if from our point of view.

Tomato juice Tony, heh heh, I like that term. ;-)

Thanks,

Drew
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wwest

Drew,

I can take the heat.

Does someone know something I don't? (Please don't answer that).

A new DVD upgrade will likely only include an updated MAP, not a new software revision. This is one of the reasons I have repeated myself again and again, I've been trying various ways to get my point accross that it isn't the map resolution or lack of coverage I have a problem with.

On the windshield fogging problem as I have said before my next LS430 will be purchased accross the border, soon, where Lexus is now supplying a heated windshield, standard, no doubt to combat this very problem.

I have little doubt that the US will have that option available in short order.

Look, folks, I'll say it again, I think the Lexus line is the best in the world, most especially the LS series. But I'm not so in love with these machines that I can't see a flaw here and there.

When there is a flaw the more people that know about it and report it to Lexus, even casually, the sooner it will be addressed.

"The Relentless Pursuit of Perfection"

I can't tell you if Lexus themselves truly believes in their marketing hype or not. But I can tell you that I want to believe there is some substance within Lexus to that motto.

Now, I don't doubt that the majority of Lexus dealers have justifiably good rating with their customers. The question that was asked only concerned three (two really) of those dealers.

The inquirer wanted to know which of the two would be recommended by someone having experience.

I have the impression that some of you on the board, as far as Lexus is concerned have the attitude "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil".

Sorry, that's not my way.

tonychrys

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Enjoy the miles.

steelgtr

I, too hope for a sofware (firmware) upgrade to the Nav. I have a Garmin Sreepilot III that blows away the Lexus for logical routing and overall "smartness"

bob

wwest

We loaned a friend of ours our car in return for using his Prius for a few weeks. I have never cared for FWD cars but there are some aspects of this vehicle that might make up for my concerns.

Driver sets up fairly high.

Tight turn radius.

Reasonable acceleration.

Four passenger.

Decent looks.

Anyone want to buy a 2001 RX with Nav?

jeffmust2

I understand that if you buy the latest Garmin Pilot Ultra 8000XL, they include a Prius in the deal.

Vehicle and GPS together only $19k with GPS data down to the centimeter.

Could be your dream Pilot...er, vehicle.

Watch out Prius board, here he comes.

robin007

I had a bad experience at Magnussen Lexus in Fremont, so I'm never going back there. Which service dealer would anyone recommend in the Bay area?

Also, the service consultants seem to be pushy about having my RX '01 the 5K oil change interval instead of the 7.5K oil change intervals. I drive mostly on freeway, so I thought the 7.5K intervals would be fine. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks.
Robin

wwest

I actually change my oil every 3 to 4000 miles, but I do it myself. My advice would be to have the oil changed every 3750 miles and have the dealer abide by the normal service rule.The "rough service" schedule is nothing but a way for the dealers to rip you off.

rmorin2

Had my Cross Terrains installed on Sunday. Found no compromise in ride or noise. They do handle better than the Bridgestones. Looking forward to seeing how they perform in the snow this winter.

wwest

jeffmust2

I couldn't figure out what I had done, written, to offend you so. Then I looked at your profile and discovered you're shopping for an SC430.

drew_

Off-topic, but I'm curious as to how you found the Prius' centre LCD screen and the centrally located speedometer and other digital gauges? Distracting? Unusual?

It is an intriguing car, and probably more practical than the Insight for most.

Thanks,

Drew
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wwest

1. I can't seem to adust to having to refer to the centrally located display in order to figure out if I have shifted to the correct "notch". My wife even had time to ask me "what's wrong" at one time today when I was clearly befuddled and delayed shifting from park. I'm sure this problem is also partially related to the unusual nature of the shifter and shift pattern.

2. I think, after curosity wanes, I can simply put the distractiion of the "energy" display out of my mind and that will cease to be a problem. The need to "touch" a control knob/button to bring up the ancillary displays is as bothersome to me as is the RX as far as distraction goes.

3. There is no question that at first ones initial instinct is look just forward of the steering wheel for speedometer, etc, and there is a moments hesitation before realization sets in. I'm sure I will adust to that over time and it will not be any worse than automatically trying to release the clutch after a few days in the Porsche.

It is really an erie feeling not having the motor running when starting up. Once the battery is fully charged it will even drive up an incline without ever starting the motor if one handles the throttle gently.

I wonder if Ford will consider re-birthing the Probe (another beautiful work of automotive "art") with a hybrid configuration like this?

drew_

Thanks for your thoughts. Most interesting. One question, does the engine remain running if the A/C is switched on, such as if you're idling in traffic, for example? I've always been curious about this.

clee4

Drew, I know you are the Host, but what about the off topic rule. Is it only for the rest of us and not you? Give me (us) a break! Any RX 300 related news out there?

mooretorque

Here's how I approach that issue. Sprinkled (L-Tuned) throughout whatever subject is being (Levinson) discussed, I sprinkle subliminally registered (TRD)terms relating to Lexus and their suppliers........seems to keep (TRAC) me under the moderator's radar (ValentineOne) most of the time. Possibly Drew is too busy (NAV) laughing at my pathetic attempts to circumvent the system.

wwest

The RX300 A/C compressor/system is very much like the Prius, there is a reservoir for storing the refrigerant in its liquid state, so the compressor only runs intermittently. But unlike the Prius the RX300 motor runs continously in all modes. The prius manual says the motor will run more often with the A/C on, and even more often with the system in "MAX".

I see that ford has announced a hybrid SUV. When I get into and drive the Prius it "feels" very much like an SUV, do you suppose Toyota or Lexus will follow suite?

A Prius with AWD and a hatchback and I would discard my RX300 immediately. Fickle, aren't I?

jeffmust2

Willard, I'm not offended; just highly amused.

I'm amused at someone that has, apparently, a long experience with Lexus vehicles, claims to buy them because they're the best, brings legal action against the same manufacturer because he feels his life was in danger because of a factory defect in the HVAC engineering, gets tossed-off a Lexus SC board by the host (actually, that's a badge of honor in my opinion so strike that point), and never tires of repeating over and over how bad most Lexus dealers are, how bad the nav system is, how bad the Denso HVAC engineering is, etc.

Wow, talk about a schizo personality - buying the best and then complaining about minor problems ad nauseum the rest of your life - must be the worse case of Buyer's Remorse ever recorded! Do you only pursue this strategy on vehicles or does it extend to other items in your life?

I accept the fact that Lexus vehicles aren't perfect - but they're the closest to that goal that I have personnally owned. I think most of the posters on this board would agree.

I hope you do sell your RX and get a Prius... heck, get ANYTHING else! And, from your posts on the LS board, you keep on mentioning that you're shopping for a LS430 from Canada so you can get a heated windshield.

Hmmm...I can hardly wait for you to take THAT puppy into a Seattle dealership for some warranty work.

wwest

"I accept the fact that Lexus vehicles aren't perfect - but they're the closest to that goal that I have personally owned."

You took the words right out of my mouth.

Buyer's remorse, NOT.

I don't regret buying any Lexus, and I can think of only one purchase (2000 RX)that is not still owned by my extended family, and/or company employees.

But at the same time I see no need to sit idly by when I see that something is not as well done as it should or could be.

And, by the way, I wasn't the one tossed off the SC430 board. It appeared to me that the board was closed to everyone because many SC owners didn't want to hear any negative comments about their purchase, and one of those (owners/admirers) even went so far as to threaten physical violence.

explrsport

This is getting to be more fun than the old Santa Fe vs RX discussions.

drew_

Thanks for the answer, wwest!

mooretorque, heh, good try anyway :-)

clee4, some off-topic posts and banter are acceptable and considered normal, so long as they don't overrun the main discussion topic in question.


Drew
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mooretorque

ww, as a former owner (SC400, SC300 5 spd, total of 9 yrs between the two) of a coupe, I believe I can understand why the SC430 owners are so touchy. If I had to get up every day and look at something with a resemblance to a corpulent turnip on wheels (especially if I had previously had one of the gorgeous, graceful 1st generation coupes) I'd be pretty defensive, too.

Give 'em credit for taking risks, but sometimes taking a big step means that you fall flat. I remember my reaction to my initial view of the Harrier/RX300: "Godawmighty, that's wierd!" But I bought one in June of '99 so I guess I mellowed pretty quickly. So far I can't see anything other than a vegetable when I look at the SC.

wwest

Me too!

At first I couldn't stand the "urinal" look of the RX' center console/shifter. Over time it somehow seemed to "blend" into the background.

I still think the Prius arrangement is more pleasing and practical. I actually owned a 57 Mercury with pushbutton shifting.

jse75

Robin,

What problems did you encounter at Magnussen in Fremont?

I bought my RX300/SilverSport AWD there two months ago. I have not taken it in for service yet.

I live across the bay on the Peninsula, but I decided to go to Magnussen instead of Putnam in Redwood City because the Putnam saleswoman blew me off when I wanted to sit down and negotiate a price with her. She told me she was too busy, and I should come back on Monday (this was on a Friday) because Saturdays were busy for them too. I figured, who are they kidding, I'm the one with money on the table, buying the car!

I had a good experience buying the car at Magnussen's, and I like that they have such extensive service hours (open late at night and on weekends).

I'm curious what happened that turned you away from them.

Thanks,
Jason

parnola

I read somewhere (desperately trying to think where) that Toyota is working on a hybrid version of the Rav4. As soon as I figure out which magazine that was in, I'll post for reference.

mvs1

The "urinal" look, now that I think about it I often times do need to use the bathroom (#1) after a drive in the RX.

mooretorque

Now I guess we know why automatic transmissions are called "slushboxes". Also, mvs1, pls restrain urge to pull handle while driving.....dropping into 1st gear will surely flush the transmission.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.