Seven Wonders of the Automotive World

qbrozen

Water
Air
Fuel
Fire

What? Too rudimentary?

If I'm going for specific inventions ...
FI
hydraulic brakes
radials
transmission
Ferrari

nippononly

I know they are still kind of in their infancy, but what about run-flat tires? The tire is easily the part of the car most prone to damage that disables the whole vehicle, and yet most of us are still running around on these easily punctured radials???

And I also vote for distibutorless ignition, which contributed to a major lengthening of maintenance intervals. One thing I appreciate (some will disagree I am sure) is that cars today are ALMOST maintenance-free.

Mr_Shiftright

maintenance freedom and repair enslavement. :P

I can't see electronic ignition as much more than an improvement on a great idea. To me, this kind of invention is a "subset". It's really just another kind of switch.

I think run flat tires need to work first before we admire them

Lemmee take a crack at it:

1.mass-production (the moving assembly line): made cars affordable to everyone. tip o' the hat to Ransom Olds and Henry Ford

2. the starter motor: made the piston engine the dominant powerplant in a matter of months. Thank you Mr. Kettering

3. hydraulic brakes: saved countless lives from the carnage of mechanical braking, and allowed heavier vehicles for hauling purposes. My Lockheed (americanized spelling) from Scotland.

4. The two-seat, 4 on the floor, open top lightweight sports car: need I say more? (Stutz Bearcat?)

5. Laminated safety glass: saved a lot of pain and suffering. (Henry Ford again)

6. The Rolls Royce Silver Ghost: made every other car in the world look bad. Raised the bar on reliability. Dared the world to do better. Mr. Royce mostly.

7. The Ferrari -- nothing like it before or since. A unique creation from humble beginnings. True mark of genius.

volvomax

How does Ferdinand Piech rate Auto Purgatory?

volvomax

Nice list. but, I would put the first Mercedes over the Silver Ghost.

Mr_Shiftright

Well an excellent contender but it simply did not have the world wide reputation of the Rolls and I doubt the reliability. We look so fondly now at the early Mercedes but really we are thinking of the magnificent 1930s cars, not the cars made in the infancy of the automobile. The Early Benzes and Daimlers (1907-1910, time of the Silver Ghost) were truly great but they were chain-driven, with total loss lubrication, no windshields, etc. They just didn't have the day to day reliability and sophistication of the Silver Ghost, (excellent electrics, full pressure lubrication) a car that anyone could drive all day long, slow speed or fast. The Silver Ghost was a very modern car for its day, and really most cars have been copying it ever since in one form or another.

fintail

Yes, the Silver Ghost of 1906 was easily the most advanced car in the world when it was introduced, probably a good 6-10 years ahead in most ways, and this was a time when 6-10 years meant huge jumps. I believe one of these early cars was driven something like 14000 miles with virtually no major repairs, an amazing feat. I see the early Mercedes (Simplex) as the first supercar, but it was not refined like the Rolls.

Mr_Shiftright

That's a fair description! The Mercedes was a powerful car but brutal. To be fair though, I think Daimler came up with a three-valve head pretty early on, for more power.

lemko

The VW Phaeton for one. A $70K Volkswagen? Isn't that what Audi's for?

lemko

...has mentioned electric headlamps and taillamps. Could you imagine having to fill your head and taillights with kerosene and lighting them up before a nightly drive? I imagine those kerosene lamps weren't too bright and made for dangerous driving.

lemko

...no, it's not driving you're vehicle under a gradually lowering bar to a Carribean song, it's a place for those who are so close to greatness, yet somehow fall short of its glory. For this place, I can think of three individuals:

Robert Lutz
Rick Waggoner
Carlos Ghosn

Nardelli better be careful with Chrysler. He might end up in Automotive Hades along with Cerberus the demon dog if he sinks the company.

Mr_Shiftright

They often used acetylene, stored in tanks on the running boards.

Electric lighting, generator, battery ignition, electric start---that's all Mr. Kettering's doing--that is, to integrate all that into one system. It was a marvelous achievement, really.

I would like to cast the entire management of British Leyland into hell (as would any good British subject), as well as anyone associated with the upper echelons of the Triumph motorcycle industry. Once in Hell, I'd like to have them start digging.

british_rover

Once in Hell, I'd like to have them start digging.

If they keep digging long enough I bet they can find an 11th circle down there.

Once there they should be forced to diagnosis electrical problems on every 60s-80s British vehicle ever made. Diagnosis only of course since they can't be fixed. :sick:

Mr_Shiftright

the wretched filthy scum that they were. Can you imagine killing the MG marque so that you could build the TR7? Or with Triumph motorcycles, can you imagine building the frame in one part of the factory, the engine in another, and finding out the motor is too big to be installed in the frame?

The Japanese must have had a good laugh with that one as they quietly introduced the Honda 750 4 cylinder to the world.

Hey, there's a candidate for a Seventh Wonder! The first Honda-4 big bike. Changed the entire motorcycle world forever!!

texases

They also used acetylene generated from calcium carbide. That way they didn't have to carry a tank of flammable gas around, just calcium carbide and water with the appropriate equipment to drip the water on the carbide, the same as the carbide lamps still used by some cavers today.

Mr_Shiftright

That's right! That was more common. I forgot that.

Can you imagine that people drove across the entire USA in those things? They were the Iron Men (and women).

british_rover

Which company had the tunnel that led across the street from one part of the factory to the paint shop and then designed a car one inch too wide to fit in the tunnel?

Because of that they had to take the unpainted bodies across the street, sometimes in the rain and snow, in open trailers.

bumpy

I really liked your list but Harley Earl?

Yeah, Harley Earl is the Liberace of automotive design: gaudy, flamboyant, and dubious taste at best. GM had a few good years under Bill Mitchell from 1962-3 to 1966-7, then everything started getting ugly and overwrought again.

texases

My dad and grandmother did just that in '30, New York to Phoenix to San Francisco, back to New York by way of Canada. That had to have been an adventure!

Mr_Shiftright

Never heard that one!

Another Wonder:

The 1968 Datsun 510. A light, peppy comfortable sedan or coupe with 4-speed, alloy sohc engine, disk brakes, bucket seats, and dogged reliability. Made the 1968 VW bug look like it came from ancient Rome. Most economy cars today still follow this configuration. A milestone car in America.

RE: Harley Earl -- well he did introduce the concept of a "styling department" to automotive manufacture. In the past, that was done by Engineering. Earl gave color, trim and splash to GM, and it certainly helped them overtake Ford in the long run. But really, is cosmetics the same as beauty? An interesting argument.

british_rover

It was in the "Who Killed the British Car Industry?" movie.

I can't remember who it was though.

bumpy

Most economy cars today still follow this configuration.

Except for the RWD thing.

Earl gave color, trim and splash to GM, and it certainly helped them overtake Ford in the long run.

Wasn't GM already outselling Ford by the time he showed up? GM owes its success over Ford to Henry's stubborn ossification more than anything else.

Mr_Shiftright

The motorcycle industry story is even more amazing. It went from market dominance in the world to being completely wiped off the face of the earth in just a few years. I don't think that has ever happened before, even to the buggy whip industry or the musket ball industry.

If you even want to know what the Japanese can do to you without government protection, there you go....

RE: Yeah, Henry Ford is the type of man you don't know whether to decorate with a halo or with horns. But then, most geniuses are like that, the real geniuses I mean. Anyone who is characterized as all goody-good or totally evil is probably mediocre in many ways.

british_rover

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrCQ_NuNoLY&mode=related&search=

Fast forward to 6:40.

It was the Austin 1800.

volvomax

The VW Phaeton for one. A $70K Volkswagen? Isn't that what Audi's for?

One silly mistake.
I don't know of a single car exec who never had a flop.
Piech also helped create the Porsche 917 race car,Audi quattro, Bugatti Veyron,the list goes on.

im_brentwood

If I had to guess...

Fuel Injection
Steel Bodies
Hydraulic Brakes
Unibody Construction
Interchangeable Parts
Anti-Lock Brakes
Air Bags

What say you all?

british_rover

I think I would have to brake into time frames in order to put all the stuff I think deserves to go on the list.

Prewar
Postwar
Modern era

Just coming up with seven is too hard.

fezo

Good call on the Datsun 510. A friend of mine had a 72 510 wagon. My first indication that these Japanese were really on to something. Nice little thing to drive. The thing that did it in was that Datsun parts were tough to come by in the early 70s.

While the Corolla was around already I still think of the 510 as the car that brought the Japanese into the American mainstream.

iluvmysephia1

radar when I was a kid but I do appreciate the car now. Enough so that during my middle-age college re-training days I bought a Revell model of the Datsun 510 sedan and built it. Painted it a mustard yellow and it still sits up in one of the cubbyholes of my computer desk. I wouldn't rule out a purchase of one of these later on. Love the body styling and the practicality of them. Shiny wheels enlighten their look, too.

Mr_Shiftright

They still race 510s in SCCA and they do very very well. This is why you can't find a 510 coupe for hell or high water anymore. They are all on the track across America.

0patience

Earl and delorean are kind of in a seperate class.
I never cared for Delorean's designs, but liked Earl's flow on his designs, which helped change vehicle designs after that.
As for Chevrolet, he didn't really do anything for the automotive industry. Most of Chevrolet's success was due to Durant.

So my top 10 list would be..

1. Karl Benz
2. Henry Ford
3. Preston Tucker
4. William Durant
5. Walter Chrysler
6. Enzo Ferrari
7. Charles Nash
8. Sochiro Honda
9. Ferdinand Porsche
10. Francois de Rivaz

General Motors:
1. Zora Arkus Duntov
2. Charles Kettering
3. Edward N. Cole
4. Bunkie Knudsen
5. David Holls

Ford:
1. Carroll Shelby
2. Henry Ford II
3. Edsel Ford
4. Elwood Engel

Chrysler:
1. Fred Zeder
2. Virgil Exner
3. K.T. Keller

AMC
1. George Romney


The bad list.
1. Lee Iacoca
2. John Delorean
3. Jacques Nasser
4. Ralph Nader

Mr_Shiftright

Good Top Ten List except, for me, Preston Tucker sticks out like a sore thumb...he was pretty much a fast-talking hustler. I really don't think he did the auto industry's image any good whatsoever. Lots of people were left in the dirt because of him. Smoke and mirrors, that he was good at.

Not much else to argue about except maybe Virgil Exner. I think he helped run Chrysler into a design ditch in the 1950s, which they didn't pull out of until the glorious 60s.

iluvmysephia1

I could find one. That's considering the coupes are all taken for racing. I don't think they stretch the length very much to fit those rear doors in.

fezo

I miss the old 510 moniker. Years after my friend had the 72 510 wagon my mom got an 80 510 wagon. It was still a good car though mom's was a bit of a slug even with a stick.

When mom bought the 510 I bought a Rabbit. Ugh. Fun to drive when it worked but that wasn't often. After two years I couldn't take it any longer. Would have been better off with the Datsun. However when I dumped the Rabbit I picked up an 80 Accord sedan. That was a great little car. Another major step in the progression of the Japanese into the American market.

texases

Just needs a little work :surprise:
ebay 510

Mr_Shiftright

Ya see? That's what you get in a 510 coupe, because most of them are doing this:

Here's a 4-door (!!) rallying:



And some serious 510 racers:

510s on the track

iluvmysephia1

The red 4-door rallying sedan is the one. Look how sharp they can be when they are all one piece.

Note that short rear door distance...I'd want a four-door model for sure.

0patience

I included Tucker, because a lot of his designs were years ahead of their time. The door and body lines were something that were ultimately copied later on in automotive history.

Had Tucker done things differently and not had so many people who didn't like him, things would have been different. Unfortunately, he wasn't a likable sort and there were many who didn't want to see his vehicles made.
Some of his ideas were revolutionary, so I may have placed him better than he deserved.

As for Exner, I included him, because he was the one who changed the Chrysler from the boxy styling to the smoother styling and responsible for the success of the early Hemi.
As an old school hot rodder, I gave him a little better billing than most would probably give him.

I'm not sure I would say he helped run them into the ditch.
But he was one of the people who could have prevented a lot of the problems in the late 50s, if he had pushed for it, instead of going along with things.

Then you have guys like Duntov, who I would say was very instrumental in the rise of hot rodding and the performance industry in the 50s. I should have put him in the top 10.

Mr_Shiftright

The argument for Exner sounds reasonable when you qualify that he sort of did what he was told near the end. I think Chrysler fired him anyway when sales dropped. Perhaps we could say his early years were a lot better than his later years?

As for Tucker, I think his car was just a hodge-podge of ill-conceived ideas. I mean, who ever again produced a rear-engine big 4-door sedan? Tatra? The Tucker wasn't well developed. It was tail-happy and you can still break a rear axle if you romp it in first gear. And the transmissions were out of early 1930s Cord automobiles for gawd's sake, and the chassis was 100% conventional for the time.

I don't think Detroit conspired against him because of his car. They conspired against him because he taunted them and called them crooks, fools and idiots in public.

Tucker COULD however, go into the Automotive Hype Hall of Fame, along with Iacocca and Delorean and what's his name who produced the Vector. Lots of smoke and mirrors--the "silver-tongued devils" of the auto world!

Duntov? Yes, good candidate! He breathed life back into the Corvette!

fezo

I saw his name on a list. What on earth for? The one thing I remember Edsel doing of significance is tortuously dragging his father into doing the right thing in moving forward when Henry would have gladly marketed the Model T forever. The reward he got was his father stressing him to death.

Edsel would also get credit for siring Henry II.

Mr_Shiftright

More of a martyr than a Hall of Famer.

0patience

Edsel gave the 32 Fords their look, still a classic styling to this day. He is responsible for most of the designs of the Ford cars in the 30s. These cars were to become classic designs coveted by hot rodders everywhere.

Most of the credit of Ford becoming a major contendor in the 30s was from Edsel, NOT Henry Ford.

fezo

No denying his styling. And talking Henry into the Model A does give him a place at the table.

Sadly, Edsel spent his life in the shadow, and under the thumb, of his father.

Mr_Shiftright

His father killed him if you ask me...not literally, but just as good. Henry was such a contradiction...on some levels, an absolute genius, on others, a very ignorant and vindictive man. He was quite the anti-semite for a while (for which he repented) . Hitler loved him, and in fact Henry Ford is the only American mentioned by name in Mein Kampf. Not a great distinction.

0patience

In my opinion, Edsel was the real genius behind Ford.
Had he lived a long life, who knows what that would have brought Ford.

fezo

Oh, had Edsel lived - had he outlived Henry- there's no doubt in my mind that great things would have resulted. Henry killed Edsel just as surely as if he had shot him. Henry II said as much. "Mt grandfather killed my father" were his exact words.

I think my point is that Edsel could have been a seven wonders guy but didn't live long enough.

volvomax

OK, Here is my list

All Time Pantheon:
Gottlieb Daimler
Karl Benz
Wilhelm Maybach
Emile Levassor
Andre Citroen
Ransom Olds
Rudolf Diesel
Battista "Pinin" Farina
Ettore Bugatti
Fred Dusenberg
Enzo Ferrari
Ferry Porsche
Charles Kettering
Colin Chapman
Soichiro Honda
Henry Ford

Ford Pantheon:
Henry Ford
Lee Iacocca
Carrol Shelby
Edsel Ford

GM Pantheon:
William Durant
John DeLorean
Harley Earl
Zora Arkus Duntov
Alfred P Sloan

AMC Pantheon(and its predecessor companies)
Charles Nash
Henry Kaiser
Roy Chapin

Chrysler Pantheon:
Walter P Chrysler
Lee Iacocca
Robert Lutz
Francois Castaing
Hal Sperlich

General US Pantheon:
Duryea brothers
Henry Leland
Raymond Loewy
Packard Brothers
Max Hoffman

Euro Pantheon:
William Lyons
Emile Jellinek
Rene Panhard
August Horch
Donald Healy
Alec Issigonas
Louis Renault
Nils Bohlin

Auto Hell:
Lynn Townsend
Ralph Nader
The Entire British Gov't and the directors of British Leyland
Joan Claybrook
Robert McNamara

Mr_Shiftright

I have a nice Colin Chapman story (true story).

He went to his first Indy 500 race and after it was over he said something like: "Those cars are front-engine monsters. I could beat them in a car of half the size and half the weight".

And so we got the Lotus Fords and also Chapman changed Indy car design forever. I think it took him two years to win, but he did by golly. There was never another contending front-engine Indy car to be seen.

lemko

The guy who designed the look of the Tucker Torpedo as we know it was Alex Tremulis.

lemko

...an automotive Hall of Fools? I nominate Malcolm Bricklin.