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Comments
My wife really enjoy riding the Santa Fe on A/T but when I drive I use Manual.
Phil, I really, really liked the Santa Fe, but bought a Forester. The SF was a REALLY close second, but the MPG scared me off. Like you, I have a long commute (130 miles/day). My MPG has been slowly creeping up, and is at 24MPG now (mixed highway at 85MPH and country roads), and has hit 25.5 MPG.
My comparsion.
Cost - Santa Fe, but not by much
Handling/accelleration - Subaru (sorry Bill, the SF's 6cyl doesn't put out much more power than the Sube h4, and it weighs SIGNIFICANTLY more). I found the SF would accellerate to (and at) highway speeds adequately, but it strained. With 13k miles under my belt with the Sube, I can tell you it accellerates effortlessly. I've found myself going 105MPH by accident! You definitely need to use the cruise control.
Interior: Santa Fe. It just felt bigger and really well thought out. The Forester's rear seats feel smaller (which may or may not be a concern), but have been adequate for me taking a couple of 100+ mile trips with 4 other full-sized adults. But the SF just felt nicer
Stereo (important to me): Forester. The 6-CD changer rocks.
Throw in the MONSTER moonroof and the proven long-term reliability of Subaru vehicles, and you've got yourself a good car. I know Hyundai makes a great car too - our other car is an Elantra wagon that my wife loves. But I'm still a bit wary when plopping down $20k+ on a car.
FYI, www.cars.com has a GREAT car comparison section where you can see up to 4 cars' specs side-by-side. Check it out under "Research a car".
And, my final advice: drive them both. Go with what you feel most comfortable driving.
Finally, if cost is an issue, VW is rolling out their Jetta wagons as we speak. The TDI (diesel) one will be around in q4. Their TDIs get 45-60 MPG!!! If they had a TDI Passat or had the Jetta wagons when I was buying in November, I might have gotten one.
Forester still more expensive than the Santa Fe and beside the Santa Fe have more options available compare to Forester with both Top of the line modern. The Santa Fe comes with Leather Seats, Electrochomic Rear view mirror, Chrome Scuff plates, Traction Control, Cargo Tray/Organizer, Tow Hitches, etc...Almost every other options can be upgrade in the Forester but the Santa Fe already come standard.
The Santa Fe is cheaper and look much much more luxury than the Forester. Even nicer too. More into the SUV modern than the Forester.
If you worry about Gas mile then do not get the SUV instead of get the Toyota Prius-Hybrid 1/2 gas and 1/2 electric or an electric car.
Talking about redesign: The Santa Fe will run Fuel Cell system by next year model already. If you don't know what is Fuel Cell system then find out yourself.
Talking about Acceleration: Almost every new models car can go over 100 mph easily now-a-day. I oftenly drove over 90mph on freeway once awhile from San Francisco to Sacramento and the higher the car speed I drove the car is more stable. I need to drive in high speed because I want my car to hit Break-In faster. People think of break-in mean you can not drive in high speed but actually all you need to do was don't rev in high RPM just speed up slow and brake slowly.
EVERY car has some advantages/disadvantages vs. every other car. Whether it's price, handling, luxury, MPG, whatever. What might be perfect for my needs might not be good for yours, and vice-versa. Everyone has to decide on their own what they're looking for in a vehicle, and then find the vehicle that best suits their needs.
Most of what you say is opinion, but you state it as fact. Most of what I said is opinion, but I stated it as OPINION. I freely said both cars had advantages, while you seem to insinuate that the SF beats the Forester in every possible category. Please take off your blinders. As you admitted in an earlier post, you never even DROVE the Forester, so how can you even begin to compare the two?
Personally, I don't want to go aftermarket for a moonroof (which is probably the biggest one on the market in the Forester) or upgraded stereo. I find the Forester to be as luxurious (if not moreso) as the Santa Fe. The cost difference isn't great, as you can get a S Premium for $23k. And, if you drive a lot (like myself and Phil do), the gas savings will offset the cost difference. In fact, when I did the math before I bought the Sube, the difference in gas costs made it so the Sube would only be about $200 more per year to operate, and cheaper after 5 years when I wasn't paying for the car anymore.
My Forester has an aftermarket moonroof, and yes it has a lifetime warranty, but it's not half the size of the one available on new Foresters. I'm green with envy!
I seriously doubt Hyundai (or anybody) will be marketing fuel cells by the end of 2002. 2005 maybe.
I checked on Edmunds, and the stuff you mentioned is NOT standard even on the top Santa Fe model. ABS, traction control, the rear view mirror, and the heated seats are all extra-cost options, at least in the US. I don't think the hitch is either, what are you even talking about?
-juice
Yes! Everyone is different and I am not really defense my Santa Fe much but just saying the Fact. This is a discussion between the 3 cars. Forester, Tribute, and Santa Fe. All have advantange and disadvantage but the Santa Fe have more advantage on all the fact that I have listed before.
Gas Mileage! Buy a 2002 Santa Fe coming out next year with the Fuel Cell System. I don't think any SUV can beat an SUV with a Fuel Cell system. After my Santa Fe warranty is over. I will modify my current Santa Fe in the Fuel Cell system. I know I won't need to sell my Santa Fe in the future since there are so many good thing to upgrade. Other SUV, I doubt it that they can do this.
Overall best point for all of these 3 SUV:
Tribute > Most powerful of all level
Forester > Gas Mileage are excellent in SUV modern
Santa Fe > Best Price with more Options
Disadvantage:
Tribute > Too much recalls, but powerful
Forester > No V6, that is why gas mile is good
Santa Fe > 1st Generation Vibration, we are in 4-5 generation now.
Shiftronics:
Nearly all of an A/T car are having 4 gears but still the Santa Fe can drive 4 gears A/T or 4 gears Manual. Yes! The 5 gears can only be drive Manual only.
You said loose fuel efficiency and acceleration: If a Forester is running a V6 Engine! Do you think the Gas mileage is better than the Santa Fe? Acceleration: How much faster do you need to go. The faster you can go the more gas you loose. I think the Santa Fe built very well and could be perfectly fit into an average SUV driver. SUV is not truly to built save gas. We all suppose to agree with this.
Why Care about Moonroof! I live in San Francisco and the San Francisco Moonroof Shop here, can do all type of moonroofs. Nearly all of the car in the market can get a moonroof. Price! slide off the roof for $800, Slide under the roof for $1200, the roof that slide from the front to nearly the trunk, $2000. Most of the dealers here have sent out to them to do moonroof.
Fuel Cell Sytem: Have been approved and sign contract. There is a test Fuel Cell Santa Fe running in Sacramento right now. My parent live in Sacramento and I often visit them. There is report running around the internet and you just have to find it out.
Go to Car and Driver and compare the 2 cars price in the top notch. Price on the Forester is more expensive.
Santa Fe may have a lower MSRP, but that's what people seem to be paying for them. Foresters are discounted (near invoice), so real world prices are comparable. What did you pay? Loaded Forester go for $23k or so.
If the Forester is quicker and more efficient than the Santa Fe, then the lack of a V6 is not a disadvantage. Nevertheless, a turbo or H6 (not V6, Subaru only makes boxer engines) ought to arrive next year and lead the entire class once again.
Would a Subaru H6 be more efficient than the Santa Fe? Yes! The Outback LL Bean edition gets 20/27 mpg per EPA figures.
If the huge moonroof costs $2000, we should add that amount when we compare prices, and that would make the $23k street price of a Forester S Premium lower than the SF.
Skip the moonroof and a few other options and it makes more sense to me. It's a stylish vehicle and the warranty is fantastic.
-juice
Since you seem determined to go fact for fact, let's do some comparisons.
Right now, the Edmunds TMV on a Subaru Forester S Premium is 22,274, whereas the TMV on a Santa Fe LX is 21,498. No big price difference there. If you travel extensively (as Phil said he would travel - 25,000 miles if you say 100/day x 5 days x 50 weeks), you will use 893 gallons on the Subaru and 1087 gallons on the Santa Fe (assuming you're getting maximum EPA rated useage). At $1.50/gallon, you're paying $291 more for the Santa Fe. Add in the $1500-$2k you'd need for a comparable moonroof, and the Forester is WAY cheaper.
Yes, the MSRP on the Forester is more significantly higher, but anyone who pays much more than invoice for a Forester is a fool. Whereas the SF is still new and dealers can command good prices.
You claim the SF is loaded with more options, yet Edmunds' own reviews say "Unproven reliability, unimpressive standard feature content, underwhelming powertrains".
You say that "SUV is not truly to built save gas", so does that mean that MPG should be ignored? Of course not. MPG still matters, especially if you give a darn about our planet.
The Forester doesn't need a 6-cylinder engine. It's h4 gets only 16 less horses and 11 fewer ft-lbs of torque. And the Forester is 591 lbs lighter. Factor that in (and you must factor in how much the car weighs), and the Forester has 18.9 lbs/hp while the SF groans under 20.5 lbs/hp. That's why the Forester is quicker, nimbler, and gets better MPG.
As I've said repeatedly, the Santa Fe is a fine vehicle. If I had a significantly shorter commute, I might have bought one.
Add auto to the Forester and the TMV is 22,998, but add ABS and heated seats to the Santa Fe and it's at least $818 more (at invoice), or 22,316.
Can you get a power moonroof for $682? I doubt it.
And while that includes traction control, Subaru has a rear viscous limited slip differential standard on S and S Premiums. I don't think the Hyundai has heated mirrors or windshield, so it's a wash in terms of price/features. Pick the one you prefer.
-juice
-Frank P.
Santa Fe: long warranty, leather seats, automanual tranny, traction control. Styling stands out. 2WD availability if you prefer.
Forester: cassette and 6-CD changer (SF has only single CD), huge moonroof, outside temperature gauge, and viscous limited-slip differential. Optional auto-dim mirror also comes with a compass. Availability of 5 speed manual if you prefer.
I think you shouldn't let this determine your choice, though. A friend of mine had aftermarket leather on her Forester ($900, looked great), and I myself have an aftermarket moonroof, so I know that can be done (about $900, though not as big as the Preemie's).
-juice
2001 Santa FE LX AWD-V6 Options 13 packages:
Leather Seats, Heated Seats, ABS, TCS, Heated Mirrors and Rear Windshied, Chrome Scuffed Plates, Front Fog lights, Cruise Control, Cargo Net, Roof Rack, Elecrochromic rearview mirror, Keyless remote alarm, Chrome door handles, Power 4 wheel disc brakes, bodycolor mirrors and door handles, leather-wrapped steering wheels, leather gearshift knob, Power mirrors with defrosters, power door locks, rear wiper/washer, contrasting bodyside cladding, retractable cargo cover, first aid kit, CFC air conditioning, Black privacy glass, 4 wheel fully independence suspension, nice overhead console, CD/AM/FM stereo. I paid $24980 "Out the Door" included tax, license, and fees but I just got $147 refund from State Tax license fees. So now the car worth about $24833. Notice that I bought it expensive already but still come less than $25k "out the door". You know San Francisco have the high Tax Rate, "Tuh".
Now you compare your Forester to my Santa Fe with price and options to see which it better... "Tuh"...
The fun thing about my Santa Fe is that I can do much, much, much more for fun than any other SUV. I have added the Chrome front bumper guard, Chrome side steps, Chrome rear protector bumper, Chrome pedals cover, Blue illuminated headlight, Chrome Sport roof rack, Mud guards, Cargo Organizer, fender flares, Wood Dash, etc....All of the stuffs I like was available in www.hdkautosport.com. Much more to come A/T Climate Control, Trip Computer, etc...
Still, I don't see a CD changer, moonroof, outside temperature gauge, compass, or 5 speed trans in that list.
If customization is your thing, all the power to you. Mine is heavily customized. I may even beat your list:
plus one sized custom alloy wheels
H rated tires
15"x30" moonroof (pop-up type)
SPT short-throw shift kit
cold air intake
18mm rear sway bar
front strut brace
fender flares
dual cup holder (replaced single)
driver's side grab handle
rear differential skid plate
towing hitch
removable bike rack
roof cargo carrier
wind deflector
leather shift knob
leather steering wheel cover
child seat tether anchors (safety first)
cargo net
cargo cover
rubber cargo liner
exhaust tip cover
armrest extension
35% window tint film
keyless
cruise control
interior air filtration kit
Many of the other things you mention were already standard, so I didn't pay extra for those.
Better yet, our Subaru Crew sponsor provided almost everything on that list for FREE! :-) I only paid for the wheels & tires ($643), moonroof ($370), tint ($170), and cargo carrier ($50).
Mine is the L model, so my total investment is only $21,433. With the S Premium available today (it wasn't when I bought mine), I'd start with that.
-juice
What the heck is "tuh" supposed to be? We're all supposedly adults here.
The Forester S comes with many of the "features" you talk about, but they're standard. Power everything, AC, 4-wheel ABS, 6-CD in-dash autochanger, cruise, leather steering wheel and shifter, fog lights, heated seats and mirrors, remote keyless entry, etc. Edmunds TMV for a standard S is 21,370. Add in the leather option and it's probably 22,370. Get the windows tinted for an extra $200, and you're at 22,570. And many of the options are STANDARD on the base Forester L model. So "tuh".
Bill, please take it down several notches, and do your research before spouting off. There are EXTENSIVE aftermarket mods you can do to a Forester too. If you want your car to look like a kid with braces, there are plenty of places to get the chrome add-ons.
And, testing and production of a fuel-cell vehicle are two completely different animals. Like I said, if Hyundai puts out a fuel-cell powered car for the 2002 model year, I'll eat my hat.
There are a few tuners that specialize in Subarus in particular: Cobb, Teagues, Undisciplined Automotive, iSR Subaru, and Rallispec, for starters. Add overseas outfits and the list expands a lot (Prodrive, STi, etc.).
Pam from iSR is putting a turbo in her own Forester. Should be sweet, with 250+hp.
-juice
Have now driven them both and the verdict is - - - Subaru Outback. Guess it's a woman's perogative to change her mind ;-)
Looks like I'll be moving on to the OB board.
Thanks for your help.
I have a Forester, but my dad and cousin both own Outbacks, and are happy with them.
Hop over to the Owners Clubs topics, then to Subaru Crew - Meet the Members and introduce yourself.
Congratulations.
-juice
Like we discussed above, you really don't need a 6 cylinder engine. The 4 banger Forester is already quicker than the Santa Fe V6, even with the automatic. The 5 speed even more so.
OK, so the Hyundai can tow more. The Forester has more payload, and you're more likely to use that frequently. Also, I can't imagine how slow a Santa Fe would be with a 2000+ pounds trailer.
Does the H6 cost $30k? No. Here is an on-line dealer that currently has LL Bean models for under $27 grand, freight included:
http://www.fitzmall.com/
-juice
Frank
You keep on repeatly point out 5 speed manual but the Santa Fe 4 cylinders have that type of 5 speed manual. CD changer do also comes with the Santa Fe only to those who wants, moonroof again have been talking all the time before, outside temperature and compass are available in Korea. The digital multimeter system have more than just the compass and the outside temperature, it have much more features. The following items will be available in the future Santa Fe: A/T climate control, Digital Multimeter System, A/V stereo system, LSD, Side Airbags, etc.. This is just the 1st year of Santa Fe and they want to save it for next year and so options. Alloy wheel comes almost on every new cars, Santa Fe Standard. Most SUV used H rated but did know that H rated is not that good. Santa Have total of 4 cup holders plus 4 more to hold 1-liter bottle. Every car new car have grab handle and beside the santa fe have on the rear too. You think the Santa Fe don't have child seat anchor then find out yourself. Much Much more to comes! Your options is more customizing compare to my Santa Fe Options. No time for me to write more:
Here is a big reason why I like about the Santa Fe compare to other SUV.
Exterior: Rear-top "LED" brake light-especially inside the window, 2 more reflector light on the rear bumper which can be convert into brake light for less than $20, The rear license plate also have it own light, the vehicle skid metal plate protector-WoW! My favorite was the rear convenience trunk window work independence. The CRV & Rodeo type work dependent! Mean that you have to lift the window in order to open the door. But the one on the Santa Fe was different, you don't have too. Beside that the window is heated/defroster, tinted, and still have the wiper to work with it. Amazing. Can't find that on other SUV.
Here the Interior part:
Nice overhead console box compare to any other SUV, Extra cargo bin under the front passenger seats, Heated seats for front driver and passenger, Lumbar back support on the driver seats, Driver seats have manual control for moving leg and butts support "UP" & "Down"-Wow! Here is best part! The rear hidden cargo bin. You can hide almost every important back-up pieces-which I did it was: jumper cable, rope, wiper blade, headlight bulb, auto tools, etc...All hidden under the rear trunk. Never get bore on this SUV (Santa Fe). Excellent build and can not find on other SUV, especially when it comes to price. Amazingly cheap. Yes! all of these are comes standard on my Santa Fe.
Child tether anchors are (if I'm correct) REQUIRED now, so it's no big deal that the SF has 'em. They came standard on my S+. Just about everything you mention in the "Interior" section is also standard on a Forester. Please, please do your research before talking about things you don't know.
8-P
The rear underfloor cargo bins and child seat tethers are standard in ALL Forester models. PLEASE do your research before you spout incorrect opinions as fact.
The 4 cylinder does come with a 5 speed, but if the V6 is kind of sluggish you can imagine how that performs.
I never said the Santa Fe didn't have child seat tether anchors. In fact it became mandatory last September so it has to have them. I only mentioned them because I added them (they didn't exist back in 1998).
You think I'm customizing? What do you call all that chrome?
You seem to know a lot about the Santa Fe, but clearly you know nothing at all about the Subaru. Once again, you rattled off a long list of features the Subaru also has (overhead console, front and rear seat height, lumbar adjustment, rear hidden compartment, heated front seats, the list goes on)!
-juice
Seriously, you both are beginning to sound like little children playing the game of "My toy is better than your toy". But, that's part of the reason for this forum for some I guess....so enjoy it if that's what floats your boat.
I'm actually still laughing about the standard options comment! LOL!
-juice
Take this post hung0820 Mar 20, 2001 11:28am where he is suppose to be responding about "standard options"
"CD changer do also comes with the Santa Fe only to those who wants,"
Please show me where a CD changer is an option on the Hyundai USA site.
"moonroof again have been talking all the time before, outside temperature and compass are available in Korea."
That's right Korea. We're talking about vehicles available for sale in North America.
"The digital multimeter system have more than just the compass and the outside temperature, it have much more features. "
Again, not available in NA. You had to order the thing from Korea and you still can't install it. Same for the Auto-climate control.
"The following items will be available in the future Santa Fe: A/T climate control, Digital Multimeter System, A/V stereo system, LSD, Side Airbags, etc.. "
So what does that have to do with comparing two vehicles that are available now and in the present??
"No time for me to write more:"
Yet he does.... just some more babble about hidden compartments, which tons of vehicles have; etc., etc.
The Santa Fe is nice vehicle, it ain't perfect.
There is a whole bunch of options at the dealer provided for the Santa Fe. The combo cd/tape H290 stereo with the 8 cds changer was available. Go check it yourself and you know.
Hidden compartments:
Let's see if you can get me a ton of SUV vehicles have the hidden compartments.
Dealer more options can be add to the Santa Fe:
For Sample: cargo tray, cargo organizer, outside bike rack, inside bike rack, bug deflector, 17" chrome wheels with tire, etc... Yes! They do have at almost every Hyundai dealers. Check it out for yourself.
Future Options:
The line I meant was future options or next year model mean the Santa Fe won't get bore in the future.
I found that the Santa Fe have a better interior and exterior compare to it competitors. Best of all the price and the options feature in the existing car as well as the future options available. I have studied many of mid-sized SUV and can afford up to 50k car but found that most of the other SUV is boring compare to the Santa Fe. The Santa Fe is also wider compare to it competitor too. Plenty of high feature have built in the Santa Fe for an example the "antenna" in the window. Very Tight. So much for and no need to say.
Subaru used to have FWD cars, but it was too small a player to spread it's resources on too many products. It cut out it's FWD cars and it's sales rose. I think the whole reason for the Forester is a practical vehicle that rides like a car, gets reasonable gas mileage, and goes like Jack the Bear in the snow. Call it whatever you want.
But, seriously, sounds like the fwd Santa Fe might be perfect for you. I don't know if they offer the v6 in the fwd mode, but that would rock...
And to comment on Frank's post, I see the Forester as the porrege Goldilocks ate - just right. Small enough to be nimble and handle like a car, big enough to handle most road problems and light offroading, powerful enough to be zippy but economical enough to get decent gas MPG.
Here is the good feature options on the Santa Fe that most other SUV do not have. Strictly design in USA, German Transmission, Korea Engine, AWD from Austria, Japan part technology. If anyone say and against the Santa Fe mean they are against these country technology.
1. Shiftronic Gear: Find very convenience to drive when you eat, drink, & talk on the cellular phone compare to other Manual SUV. We can drive Manual to control the idle and speed and to save gas and when it times to eat, drink, talk on phone we just have to put on A/T.
2. High Tech Antenna built in the Window
3. Rear Window that are tinted, defroster/heated, and also have a wiper. It also work independence for easy access for storage mean different than the CRV & Rodeo. The CRV & Rodeo have to lift the window in order to open the door but on the Santa Fe you don't have too.
4. Very nice hidden cargo in the rear trunk help storage many back-up things, such as jumper cable, headlight bulbs, wiper blade, rope, tools, etc. You won't find this features compare to "most" of other SUV in the market.
5. Extra cargo bin under the front passenger seats
6. Nice high-tech headlight and Fog lights compare to "most" of other SUV in the market.
7. Best price, Best warranty, Best feature options, and Best Gas mileage on V6 compare to "any" of other SUV in the market.
****Do I need to say more*****
To me: The Santa Fe have the best Interior and Exterior compare to "most" of other SUV in the market.
Now I've heard everything. You folks are on your own, good luck!
Most cars nowadays are a hodge-podge of international parts, design, and manufacture. It's nothing special about the SF.
Several of the "good feature options on the Santa Fe that most other SUV do not have" are also on the Forester: in-window antenna, rear wiper and defroster, hidden trunk cargo spots, foglights. And the Forester gets better gas mileage and weight/HP ratio.
The SF v6 has the best MPG of the v6's because it's a WEAK 2.7 litre, barely more powerful than the Forester's 2.5 4-cylinder. The Subaru h6 (not available in the Forester yet) puts out 212 horses vs 181 for the SF, and GETS BETTER MPG.
Look, nobody is trying to say the SF is a bad car. As I said repeatedly, I almost bought one and might buy one for my wife when we get rid of her Elantra. The SF is a FINE small SUV.
-Frank P.
I am here to help edmunds.com for the people who need to know and compare the car. If I can help I'll try. I have given other sample information discussion facts information on other discussion too. Such as the RAV4 & the CRV.
I have show the brochure of these 3 cars (Forester, Santa Fe, and Tribute) to the people in my area of work just for a survey. Most of them does not even notice the Forester in an SUV class they thought it was a Station Wagon. Most of them said is ugly "sorry to say this". They found the the Santa Fe and the Tribute was nice. Some people like the Tribute but most of them on the survey like the Santa Fe.
As far as I know, the Santa Fe does not have true HID headlights.
Consumer Reports did have the new RAV4 edging out the Forester, but the Forester still leads in safety (CRSA) and satisfaction (much better than average).
The Santa Fe is still too new, so we'll have to wait 'til next year for those scores to come in.
-juice
Subaru is so scared now. See how they reacted u will know, they 1st match the Canadian 5 years warrenty, & not be able to raise these forester price & also doing a lot newspaper & TV ads. Subaru might become another Mazda/Daewoo in the future if they cannot earn enough $$$ to cover their expenses, no matter how good they can made AWD & high tech. The more sophisticate the more $$$ they invested.
Every auto maker can make more stable car by lowering the car base. Why they don't do it, just Subaru's continues? The market already tell nowaday people looking for taller car to protect their life. (Ignoring the fact a lot of tall SUV roll-over & kill peoples). Look at BMW, Mercede Benz, MDX all go taller, not to mention Explorer, Expedition, Excurrsion..etc)
So too low / too tall is no good. Smart auto maker now making something in between, just like Lexus X300, Santa Fe, Jeep, BMW X5, MDX.....
My SF(Starting CDN$24,950) VS Lexus RX300(starting CDN$54,000)
http://www.members.home.net/g7florist/sf/sfvslx1.jpg
http://www.members.home.net/g7florist/sf/sfvslx2.jpg
Rich peoples just keep on buying..one follow another....Benz just advertises how it can survive from accident...not mentioning how fast its can accelerate....because they know not too many people care about how fast it can accelerate...it just not neccessarily to accelerate very fast (who want/dare to acelerate 0-100km in city at 6 seconds...Hmmm.... the cop is waitting to put u into jail!)
Today! If u care about people life, all cars in the market is considered too fast!.... Pls slow down!
Just racing & won those $$$ reward in daytona...w/ the risk of being kill.
For SUV, the low platform Subaru will never be welcomed by the majorities. Not just because of their piggy look, also it don't give people safe confidence(Imagine subaru being side hitted by a Ford Expetition or BMW X5. The front end can hit the head of the Subaru driver easy! The reason I picking a GMC safari in 1997 is because I almost get killed in an Acura Integra when side hitted by a 80km speed Toyota Tercel(It so lucky is a Tercel, otherwise I won't be here today). And I never willing to drive any low platform car since 1997!
If Subaru is so high-tech they should be able to marketing those racing car like porche, camero, NXS..... but see Subaru has none.
If they cannot follow what Toyota & Honda did to offer all kind of models. By just concentrated on the nearly out-dated low car platform sedan AWD, I don't think they can survive for any longer than 10 years.
Any comments? Pls don't attack me! This is my opinions. I might be wrong! Happy to listen to all kind of comments.
Happy discussing,
Bill Tung (not Hung, Hi Hung0820! someone thought you are Bill(me). We are just 2 very happy SF Owners)
If "low platform" was being deserted by the public, how come the Ford Focus, Honda Civic, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, and Ford Taurus are all in the top 10 of US vehicle sales? I realise pickups are #1 and #2, but their numbers have a large number of commercial sales.
Bill T- So you're saying that Subaru can't compete by just selling the cheapest Japanese AWD vehicles? Isn't that the same marketing approach that Hyundai is attempting? And speaking of being in financial difficulties...if the Korean government wasn't subsidizing them, Hyundai would've gone belly up several years ago. I also fail to see how you're going to be any safer in your Santa Fe when an Expedition broadsides you. The Santa Fe is only an inch higher than the Forester (66" vs 65"). The reason the Forester handles better is because of its lower center of gravity due to the boxer engine layout. Subaru is too small of an operation to compete model for model with Toyota or Honda. That said, they have increased sales almost 100% in the past decade, mainly by developing a niche market for sophisticated and reliable AWD vehicles.
-Frank P.
I'm not sure what you were trying to say when you said "You guy just like to against about the facts information about this discussion". We have used NOTHING but facts, while your opinions and conjectures have been proven false time and time again.
Bill, it was me who confused Hung with you. Sorry, my bad.
Do you have ANY data about Subaru being "the cheapest Japanese made AWD in the market". Last I checked, Subarus were in simlar price ranges with Toyota/Honda/Nissan etc. And, last I checked, none of them made AWD vehicles outside of their Johnny-come-lately SUVs. Subaru has been making AWD cars since the 1970s.
Can you please not give opinion as fact? You and Hung go to the same debate school? Unless you have internal emails from high-level Subaru execs, you can't say "Subaru is so scared now". Such conjecture is laughable.
Your opinion that a SF will protect you better than a Subaru is too funny. Do you have any data to back you up? Subarus perform VERY well on crash tests. The Forester consistently performs best in class in crash tests, and got nothing lower than a "Good" on the ratings linked above. Hyundai performs poorly and the Sonata (which is the base of the Santa Fe) performs terribly.
As for your conjecture about Subaru not making a sports car, check out the WRX. None of us has made a single claim that Subaru is "high-tech", but the WRX puts out 227 horses in a 4 cylinder, 2 litre engine.
The AWD sedan/wagon market is FAR from dying. In fact, Subaru gave it a rebirth. Look at all the new AWD cars hitting the road - Volvo, Mercedes, Audi, VW, etc are all putting out NEW AWD cars. The market is booming, not dying.
Look, none of us have said that the SF is a bad car. Far from it. I've stated repeatedly that I almost bought one. Hyundai makes fine cars, as I can attest as I drive my wife's Elantra wagon to work 50% of the time. Heck, I encouraged someone to get one here on this board!We have simply been pointing out Hung's false statements.
I used the Manual Shiftronic on the Santa Fe, For average people ride as follow:
1st gear=1800 rpm, 2nd gear=2200 rpm, 3rd gear=2200rpm, 4th gear=2200rpm close to 40 miles when the car speed hit 40 miles is drop down to the 1800rpm due to the fact that the A/T "OVERDRIVE". Most people find it hard to acceleration for more speed over 40mph because there was an A/T "OVERDRIVE" built. In order to passby the "OVERDRIVE" then just acceleration a little harder. You will find your body moving back....
I love to ride sport car but when using the Manual on the Santa Fe: I only need to use the following and leave everyone behind (Above average people ride):
1st gear=2200rpm, 2nd gear=2400rpm, 3rd gear=2400rpm, 4th gear=200rpm. Afterward the A/T "OVERDRIVE" hit in and get below the 2000rpm. This is what I want to point out. How much more power does an average people need to drive. Yes! I can even go faster too. Look at the RPM I have listed all below 3000rpm. Yesterday! It was on the 3rd and I want to pass the Yellow Light and then hitting to 5000rpm and my wife "Hella" "Hella" scream at me. Her body was moving back....
Most average people want to drive A/T anyway and also without the need of AWD. Most average people do not need the sun/moonroof options anyway. More Important, most average people do not need more power than the Santa Fe. The Santa Fe have way enough power to meet and produce for most average people need. My dad and father-in-law have never even touch their sun/moonroof since they bought the car. I am happy that my Santa Fe does not have the sun/moonroof. Last time I have this on my Celica GT and I only used it 1 time at a not neccessary time. I can add this option on my car at anytime I want...