Suzuki Grand Vitara vs Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape vs Saturn

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Comments

  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Yes! But you are telling the 30mph per hour compare to the 5mph crash test. Like the link that I have showed before this message; the person feel like being hit between 15-20mph but most of the people that I have showed that the hit should be higher than 30mph since the car behind was total damage on the front while the rear of the Santa Fe was not that damage. Even with that type of damage should not be that costly compare to the IIHS 5mph crash test... I have send letter, prove, site, and inspection document to the Hyundai-motor for investigation on this 5mph crash test price issued.

    Therefore my issued here was the hitting impact and the price issued.....I will send the letter,prove, site, and inspection document to Hyundai-USA as well.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Hung- The Santa Fe got away with the smallest amount of damage because it was the first in line. The Neon not only had to absorb the impact of hitting the Santa Fe but also was then sandwiched by the Aerostar. Since both vehicles weigh considerably more than the Neon, it was forced to absorb the majority of the impact.

    -Frank P.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Plus a bumper hit a hood. Bumper will win, of course. The Neon must have been under braking, so brake dive made sure it got whacked pretty good above the bumper.

    -juice
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    If the bumper hit the bumper than they both have good amount of impact bounce: However, the Neon hitting on the SF bumper with the hood cover and part of the engine force. Therefore, the force is even harder compare to the bumper versus bumper (bounce impart)instead of heavy force impact. My main point is that the IIHS using their estimated price point.

    Let's talk about the rear bumper damage: If the rear bumper of the Santa Fe was damage and I know that the cost of the Bumper is about $240 include paint because most of the place do charge the paint and ship it. The reflector light on the bumper $40 and crank part hold the bumper about $150. Total less $500. What is the labor cost since only need to replace the bumper and & crank part hold bumper? The IIHS estimated cost was too high on the Santa Fe. Maybe they only make a phone call instead of actually fix it themselve. Off-course phone call, everyone want to estimated higher to cover everything.

    Last time I replace the front bumper of the Celica with less $400 for everything included paint... average labor charge would be $80 per hours and how many hours do they need to do replace the bumper. Less than 4 hours. Since most of the shop already made money from the parts as well because they bought it in at wholesale price.

    My other main point is that most of this body shops are cheating when it comes to insurance paid. Happen here all the time (San Francisco). The real actual cost is not as you think. I do most of this light work myself and I really know the cost...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You can not really order the aftermarket parts because they don't have it. Most of these parts are belong to manufactures and you have to order from manufactures/dealers. Most of the shops would go into the catalog or the site to order the parts from manufactures/dealers. They have to use their "login", or "Business ID", etc. in order to buy from the manufactures. They would buy the products at wholesale price but consumers (outside people) have to buy it at retail cost. The shop will charge the parts as retail price as well. I know exactly how the procedure go.

    I am pointing out that most of the shops would cheat by adding labor charge and other hidden parts price as well. The more parts they buy the more money they make because they bought it at wholesale price and charge on invoice at retail price. Most of these shops would always have extra parts left-over and they would use them for the next same car and then invoice again and make more money out of that "Left Over Parts".

    More parts more money!
    Add more labor more money!
    (They use this on insurance claim but when you do it without the insurance claim then is a different story)! I have friends who work in body shop and I know how exactly the procedure work.

    As far as the test go! I know that there should be a bumper, paint, reflector, screws/bolts, and crank parts hold the bumper that are needed to replace but when I check out the "RETAIL COST" and add labor was not even comes any close to the the price as IIHS was given. This is base on the rear bumper crash. This is also base on the IIHS test damage part as I check it. I have calculated at higher cost already.....Most of the shop would say this "Oh" if you need to replace this part than we need to replace every other component parts as well. But then most of other component parts are not require such as the screw/bolts which they can take out from the current car and use it. Instead, they order more add to invoice and then keep those parts.

    Some car have less component parts and other have more components parts. If the car have more component parts are likely to be charge more by the shop. Most of the big car have more component parts. Example of Component parts: Let's say if the Santa Fe rear window was broken then there is lots of component parts involve. The rear window defoster, LED brake lights, Spring Handle because the window can open, etc... But most of other car rear window only have the window defoster. While the Santa Fe have much for component parts involve. "Now" you know what I mean by component parts. However, base on this low crash test the Santa Fe most of this component parts are not necessary need to change but the shop or estimated would have add it anyway. The more component parts the car have the higher the cost. Therefore, I said the cost is not really what you think they are when it cames to insurance claim...
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    You obviously don't know how the Auto Body repair business works. I have been in the business for over 20 years, and Insurance adjusters write the repair estimates. The IIHS is an insurance industry group, they know all the ins and outs of writing estimates and the costs of repairing crashed vehicles. You can make all the irrational arguments you want but the simple fact is that it will cost more to repair the Santa Fe in a 5mph crash than it will to repair the Forester or Escape. Does this make the Santa Fe a poor choice? No! It just means that insurance rates may be a bit higher which will impact the cost of ownership.
    I looked at a Santa Fe today, and found the rear bumper to be so small as to give more proof to me that the damage estimated by the IIHS is accurate. Look at the bumpers yourself, the Forester and Escape have bigger bumpers that stick out further than the Santa Fe's.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    Still you only need to replace the bumper and the bumper holder. Last time I bought my car in the body shop and told them about insurance and they estimated the charge of 3 times higher than I would have paid it.....How can you explain this...

    My total message to everyone:::
    If you need to repair any body works and paid with your own money; make sure you go and get a few estimated for different shop and told them that you are paying....If insurance claim, then you would not worry...

    You mentioned about 20 years in the business but did you ever fix the body work yourself?.... I have worked with a few light body works a few times in the past. My friends work in body shop as well as some of my friends own their auto shop. I visited them very often and they always charge less than every other shop. The do good reputation business never overcharge customers.

    The first time I was involved with my Celica bumper damage. Call a few shops and they all have different price estimated. $1200, $900, and $1430; labors estimated nearly all match about 3 hours. I did not want to use my insurance with the $500 deductible. Finally, I have asked my friend who work in the auto shop not body and placed the part for me. retail price I paid at $213.72 for the bumper and went to the body shop for matching paint charge $118-over price but I did it anyway. Take me less than 2 hours to replace the bumper........
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Still you only need to replace the bumper and the bumper holder. Last time I bought my car in the body shop and told them about insurance and they estimated the charge of 3 times higher than I would have paid it.....How can you explain this...

    My total message to everyone:::
    If you need to repair any body works and paid with your own money; make sure you go and get a few estimated for different shop and told them that you are paying....If insurance claim, then you would not worry...

    You mentioned about 20 years in the business but did you ever fix the body work yourself?.... I have worked with a few light body works a few times in the past. My friends work in body shop as well as some of my friends own their auto shop. I visited them very often and they always charge less than every other shop. The do good reputation business never overcharge customers.

    The first time I was involved with my Celica bumper damage. Call a few shops and they all have different price estimated. $1200, $900, and $1430; labors estimated nearly all match about 3 hours. I did want to use my insurance with the $500 deductible. Finally, I have asked my friend who work in the auto shop not body and placed the part for me. retail price I paid at $213.72 for the bumper and went to the body shop for matching paint charge $118-over price but I did it anyway. Take me less than 2 hours to replace the bumper........
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    But Hung, not everyone has friends that work in body shops and can charge them less. The majority of us don't and hence the IIHS doesn't account for the atypical scenarios. If I personally get into an low speed accident, I'd want the body shop to inspect and repair the vehicle, rather than do it myself, even if it means paying out of my own pocket.

    Good luck,

    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • dreadedrummerdreadedrummer Member Posts: 20
    What I found interesting in one story that I read about the testing was that when the manufacturers were contacted with the results, only Hyundai agreed that they needed to work on the problem; the other companies either didn't reply or said "our vehicles meet government standards." I don't own an SUV yet (probably not for another year), but I'll be interested to see if any of the manufacturers take any steps on their own or if they wait for the government to step in. My suspicion is that Hyundai will probably work on it just to allay fears about their reliability. The other companies already have strong consumer confidence, so they will probably lollygag on the issue unless it affects sales (which I doubt).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I dunno what's going on here at the Town Hall, but post #306 is certainly not mine. Drew - can you ask someone to look into this?

    308 and 309 are also duplicates, with different authors listed.

    I agree with our drummer friend. If Hyundai takes steps to improve on the design, good for them. Mercedes sometimes uses feedback from IIHS tests to make safety improvements.

    -juice
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Hi juice,

    The names switch is related to the database problems we've been having the last few days. The tech people are working on it. Thanks.

    Steve
    Host
    Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    I just give sample of my friends that work from the body shop and auto shop! Back in those time my friends are only a worker for the shop and therefore it is easy for me to make a phone call and have them place parts for me. You can call almost every auto shop or body shop and have them place a parts order for you. Simply because the shops get the parts faster sometime same day deliver and/or next day deliver.

    Like I mentioned before: I paid at retail price.....
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    What is going on with this discussion: I wrote discussion #306 and it shows Aixtera...Which is suppose belong to me HUNG0820...

    You can not really order the aftermarket parts because they don't have it. Most of these parts are belong to manufactures and you have to order from manufactures/dealers. Most of the shops would go into the catalog or the site to order the parts from manufactures/dealers. They have to use their "login", or "Business ID", etc. in order to buy from the manufactures. They would buy the products at wholesale price but consumers (outside people) have to buy it at retail cost. The shop will charge the parts as retail price as well. I know exactly how the procedure go.

    I am pointing out that most of the shops would cheat by adding labor charge and other hidden parts price as well. The more parts they buy the more money they make because they bought it at wholesale price and charge on invoice at retail price. Most of these shops would always have extra parts left-over and they would use them for the next same car and then invoice again and make more money out of that "Left Over Parts".

    More parts more money!
    Add more labor more money!
    (They use this on insurance claim but when you do it without the insurance claim then is a different story)! I have friends who work in body shop and I know how exactly the procedure work.

    As far as the test go! I know that there should be a bumper, paint, reflector, screws/bolts, and crank parts hold the bumper that are needed to replace but when I check out the "RETAIL COST" and add labor was not even comes any close to the the price as IIHS was given. This is base on the rear bumper crash. This is also base on the IIHS test damage part as I check it. I have calculated at higher cost already.....Most of the shop would say this "Oh" if you need to replace this part than we need to replace every other component parts as well. But then most of other component parts are not require such as the screw/bolts which they can take out from the current car and use it. Instead, they order more add to invoice and then keep those parts.

    Some car have less component parts and other have more components parts. If the car have more component parts are likely to be charge more by the shop. Most of the big car have more component parts. Example of Component parts: Let's say if the Santa Fe rear window was broken then there is lots of component parts involve. The rear window defoster, LED brake lights, Spring Handle because the window can open, etc... But most of other car rear window only have the window defoster. While the Santa Fe have much for component parts involve. "Now" you know what I mean by component parts. However, base on this low crash test the Santa Fe most of this component parts are not necessary need to change but the shop or estimated would have add it anyway. The more component parts the car have the higher the cost. Therefore, I said the cost is not really what you think they are when it cames to insurance claim...
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    I just watched the video clips of the Santa Fe crashtest, which is on MSNBC's dateline sight. In the frontal 5 MPH crash, the hood buckles so it would require replacement along with the bumper. In both rear end crashes the tailgate buckles, so it would need replacement along with the bumper, impact pad and reinforcement. The Forester required only a new front tag bracket on the front flat impact test for $10, and 0 damage on the rear flat impact test.
    Professional insurance adjusters estimated the damage on the tested vehicles, not body shop estimators. They weren't out to pad the costs because they weren't getting paid to fix the cars. All insurance companies are very cost conscious and try to pay the least amount for repair work.
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    It seems that these kind of 5mph Bumper Crash test is kind of nonsense because what are the chance of people crash in the wall! Since, it called the bumper crash test but why don't they get the rear spare tires from the CRV & RAV4 and test it. That kind of rear impact is not base on the rear bumper crash...Instead the CRV & RAV4 crash with the spare tire while if the CRV & RAV4 facing accident on the street they would more likely hit on the bumper instead of the tires..

    It would be more sense if the crash test show the result of which car hit on which car. According to this test, most of the trucks are even worse than the Santa Fe but I don't want to point that out...If the Santa Fe versus the Ford Truck, I would said the Santa Fe is total damage and while the Ford Truck can drive away. If the Forester versus the Truck base! I would said that the Forester will face more disaster than the Santa Fe would have...

    The chance of people moving and hit the wall will likely to have their foot on the brake while test just let it goes. The heavy the car the more impact damage according to the IIHS test. This is so obvious....

    The bumper on the trucks and large SUV are mostly have a chrome/metal type and very costly while the Santa Fe, Forester, Escape, RAV4, CRV4 are type of plastic/rubber type. I would like to see the Forester verus the Santa Fe impact and let us see which car get more damage.... This is more interest to people to see than anything...

    Since the Ford Truck was bad on this test and why don't they try to test the Santa Fe, Forester, etc. crash against the Ford Truck and see which one will get more damage. The smaller the SUV the higher risk you get if facing SUV & Truck Base vehicles..

    I already added the higher cost on most of the parts and extra parts from the Santa Fe rear end damage and the labors require and they are not come any close to the IIHS crash test price quote on the rear as well as the RAV4...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They are only looking at parking lot fender benders, low speed bumps, and the costs to fix those.

    There is plenty behind those plastic covers, too.

    If you want to see a simulation of a crash, we'll have to wait for the IIHS offset crash tests.

    -juice
  • rsharp83rsharp83 Member Posts: 82
    On Friday I took my Sante Fe to a local auto electronics shop to see about putting a disc changer I own from a previous car into the Sante Fe.

    As we talked and poked around inside the Sante Fe looking for a place to put the changer the stereo guy started asking about the Hyundai. He seemed pretty impressed with the auto. He had not seen one because there are only 3 in our area (so far as I have seen).

    He asked about other SUVs I had compared when shopping and I said I had considered the Escape but decided against it. His reply is interesting.

    "Well you sure made a good choice there (not buying the Escape). We have had a couple of them in here to work on and the quality of the workmanship is very poor on those. They are not put together very well from what I have seen."

    So there you go. An opinion from a neutral source who sees just about every kind of auto there is at his electronics shop.

    Maybe it should read "Poor Quality is Job One!"
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    Hung,
    I give up, we are going to disagree on this issue. You obviously can bear no criticism of the Santa Fe, whether it is warranted or not. You also obviously miss the point of the test, which is to show how vehicles bumpers perform at protecting expensive parts at low speeds.
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Bumper protect: What's about the SUV (RAV4, CRV) with the spare tire hanging on the back. This is not a bumper crash test....

    The low crash test speed suppose to rely on car versus car instead of car versus the wall. What are the chance of people car crash in the wall compare crash in the car. Even in the parking lot, most car would hit other parking car instead of the wall. Even if they are about to hit the wall their foot would be at the brake...It is so obviously that most of the bigger SUV and Truck get worse accordingly to this low speed test! I have mentioned so many times that each car parts have different price:
    1. The bigger parts the more expensive
    2. The car have more components are more expensive
    3. The bumper with paint job needed are more expensive
    ***A few of these SUV do not need a paint job on the bumper and you should know that which one do and which are not?**** They all have their own meaning:
    A:>Bigger Truck and Bigger SUV most likely have the chrome/metal and show it powerful, strong, and work heavy duty.
    B:>Car with bumper paint show it owns beauty and look very nice
    C:>Car with bumper "NO" paint does not look pretty but help save money on maintenance.

    I know that the Santa Fe damage price are better than most big SUV and Truck but I don't want to compare with it. Because I know if the Santa Fe versus those trucks and large SUV, I would close my eyes and shut my mouth....

    The Hyundai Site show all of the parts and component parts and so much information for maintenance and best of all the price. The pictures show so detail where the screw/bolt/nuts located and therefore it is easy to remove and attach the parts. Hardly see any better layout from other manufacture website...
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    The following is part of Hyundai's response to the IIHS regarding the 5 mph bumper crash tests. Basically they acknowledge that the costs are high (they don't refute them) and that there is room for improvement.


    "...however, there is always room for further improvement. As this is a brand new model and Hyundai’s first sport utility in the United States, we believe there are ways in which we can make this an even better vehicle and we will continue to work toward providing Hyundai owners with the best value vehicle possible. While we may not be in complete agreement with the testing methodology used by IIHS, we understand, and share, their desire to reduce costs for car owners who may have vehicle damge from an accident...



    Drew
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  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    I like this message::::

    "While we may not be in complete agreement with the TESTING METHODOLOGY used by IIHS, we understand, and SHARE, their desire to reduce costs for car owners who may have vehicle damage from an accident..."
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    Force = Mass X Acceleration

    SF is heavier, sure more force will rebound toward the SF bumper from the pole or the wall while hitted.

    If SF hits a car or object less stronger or heavier than it, then I think SF damages will be less. But the objest being hit will suffer more force.

    Let's have a front & front hits test between SF & Forester, & between SF & Escape!

    I guess the less damage SUV will be SF!
  • drmpdrmp Member Posts: 187
    "Force = Mass X Acceleration" and less damage on collision?

    I believe body damage is a function of structural rigidity and strenght, and not MASS. A small MB can have a head-on collision with a heavy american car but still maintain the passenger compartment of the MB intact.

    Let's imagine two SF's coming together at same speed then get a head-on collision. Both will come to a complete stop on impact. But if the other car is a lighter Mazda tribute, then on impact, the SF will continue to go forward and push the tribute backwards.

    Assuming both SF and tribute passenger compartments were intact, the occupants in the lighter tribute would suffer greater injury due to greater decelerative force.

    My 2 cents.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Tincup47- Give up already. Both Hung & Tung (sounds like a comedy team no?) are diehard Santa Fe fanatics who won't tolerate any disparaging comments of their beloved vehicle. :-)

    -Frank P.
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    Frank P.!, What made u so mad/upset about me & Hung?

    Just because we don't buy Escape or Forester?

    This is a forum for SF, Forester & Triscape fans, me, Hung & so many others happy SF fans is perfectly "LEGAL" & "Free" to express/share our opinions in here, just like all other Subaru & Ford fans do.

    If you don't happy because our SF look better than the powerful but "dwarf" Subaru, then just leave us & go back to your designated Subaru Forum & make comedy for your own small group!

    I should also join the Durango & GMC safari Forum because I also owned Durango & GMC, why I don't & only interested in this forum, the reason is simply because I find this car (SF) is really a good deal plus fun & comfortable to drive, I would highly recommended it to new SUV buyers. Not because I owned SF then I want other to follow me, see I never recommend my 5.9L Durango & the GMC safari to anyone.
    Another reason why I want to argue with those diehard Subaru fans, is because I can't stand them criticizes/insults Hyundai's past products & fans.

    I warn you one more time, behave your words, it is a public forum, if u don't like us please leave, do not try to say bad things about us in front of others.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    billtung- First off, I'm not the one who's upset. (but thank you for proving my point) :-) Just a suggestion: your posts in defense of the Santa Fe would be more effective if they weren't so blatantly biased. After all, even us "diehard Subaru fans" are willing to admit that our vehicles aren't perfect (well maybe not Juice) :(o)

    -Frank P.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Face it guys, the Santa Fe's bumpers are not well designed! The test results were poor. Period. Even Hyundai acknowledges that.

    Personally, I think the Forester's bumpers have room for improvement. They did not get the best rating, either. I think that at 5mph there should be ZERO damage to vehicles marketed as rough and sturdy, as these are.

    -juice
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Juice- admit it... you only included that last part to prove me wrong!!!

    -Frank P.
  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    F=MA question:

    If, by your theory, the lighter one has less damage, what would happen if you put wheels on a Ming vase and crashed it against a wall? It is certainly lighter than most cars...
  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    Bumper materials:

    Why don't they make bumpers out of wood? It is probably cheaper than metal or plastic, and can be sanded if scratched. It would also sustain far greater impacts than plastic. Plus, it looks good (when done good!).

    Bring back wood!!!
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    Wood Bumpers...

    They don't want pedestrians to get splinters.. :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Frank: you got me!

    Actually, read back a bit and you'll see several of my suggestions for the 2003 Forester. Specifically, I'd like to see a 5 speed automatic, a turbo option, and the Outback's rear suspension (to eliminate the rear shock towers).

    As long as they can keep the sporty, nimble handling as well.

    BTW, my little "dwarf" can carry a 1040 pound payload, far more than a Sante Fe can carry. So I guess it's like Jet Li (small and powerful) vs. Steven Seagal (kind of overweight).

    -juice
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Juice- Hey, I was just pulling your leg anyway (although I do recall a long a feisty debate with the CR-V owners). Careful what you say about Steven.... he may have to visit you and open a can of whupass!

    -Frank P.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I dunno, he's gone kind of soft, even started playing country music in his movies.

    He needs to hit the gym, if you ask me.

    Hyundai showed a concept with a 2.7l engine that made 225hp or so. I'm sure we'd all like to see that offered!

    -juice
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    I guess I have to proved to you that the price estimated on the Crash Test was too high and they are not actually what you think:

    Here is a sample of our Santa Fe Club Member Story:
    "Someone broke into my rear passengers window this weekend....I had an estimate done through Hyundai who wanted to charge a total of $950.00 to replace and re-paint.....I would suggest not going through Hyundai if this happens to someone. I went to an auto body shop who charged $250.00 to replace and fix the frame"
    *****This is what I have been saying all this time but you guy just don't get it*****The estimated was nearly 4 times (not 3, not 2, not 1 time higher but nearly 4 times higher). When you make a call into the dealers for estimated they are different if you put them in the body shop.....Understand yet....

    Here is a Hyundai Site that show you how simple it is to maintenance on the parts: I guess I don't need to prove about the parts price because they are amazing...

    http://www.hmaservice.com/webtech
    1. Model choose > Santa Fe
    2. Year chose > 1-2001
    3. Engine > All engines
    4. Body (Interior & Exterior)
    5. Grill, Molding & Bumpers
    6. Choose either Front Bumper or Rear Bumper
    7. Removal & Install
    ****Take a look at it; how simple and easy to removal & install****

    Do you think a bigger engine mean go faster than smaller engine? That is a no no! Bigger engine is simple mean you can carried more weight. It does not really need the requirement to go faster (some does but mostly not). So what if the Forester is just a little faster than V6 Santa Fe. Do you think the Forester 2.5 liter engine can go faster than the Celica GTS 1.8 liter?.....What I am saying is that! It does not matter how fast the car can perform but when it comes to SUV you just really need the right type of SUV that can carried the weight that fit your need.

    Santa Fe already above average as well as the speed need it. Therefore, I never have to upgrade for more horsepower. When I need speed I just shift to lower gear and the body already moving backward. I don't even need more than this..."Just happen to me again! My wife scream at me! I cut into the middle lane on the freeway because I don't want to drive behind the big truck. I did not even know that my Santa Fe Break-In that faster since I only have 3300 miles on it.. The car is getting faster....
    1. Well Beautiful look
    2. Amazing Warranty
    3. Best Prices and Options
    4. Good price parts and easy to maintenance
    5. Wonderful Aftermarket products availability
    (These are way over average people need and requirement)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Actually, we do get it.

    You go aftermarket, and you can find lower repair prices, for any brand. The key is, the quality may not be the same. Consumer Reports tested some aftermarket panels for rust and found they were usually not nearly as good as OE parts.

    On a new vehicle I would demand OE parts. If you want to save a little money, go through a wholesaler, but still get quality OE parts, IMO.

    That looks like a pretty good on-line owner's service manual. I didn't see photos, though, are there any?

    -juice
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    OEM Parts:
    The shop can only order the OEM parts anyway. There is not really any aftermarket parts especially when it comes to new model car. Those are OEM parts and order strictly from Hyundai Parts.....
    https://www.hyundaiusaparts.com/consumer/index2.html
    1) Click on Parts Catalog
    2) Select Santa Fe 2001

    Photos Manual:
    The site show the good manual as well as the layout of the photos! Didn't you see? Probably you have to check it again.
    http://www.hmaservice.com/webtech/
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I looked at the oil change instructions, and it's mostly text, with some very basic black & white drawings. Looks like an owner's manual, scanned in and available on-line.

    I'd spring for a printed manual with more detailed instructions and more photos, since I do all the maintenance myself. Something like a Chilton's.

    BTW, I agree with the strategy of buying parts from wholesalers and then doing the work myself, but keep in mind we are a very small minority. 95% of owners will just take it to a shop.

    This way I spend only $9 on each oil change (with an OE filter and a crush washer), and under $100 for my 30k mile service.

    -juice
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Site Detail:
    The site show very detail on doing almost every parts of car. This is more important than anything because it save lots of time to fix & maintenance the car. "Remember almost every parts". The site have help showed me the detail on the radio wire harness and therefore I was able to install the Video and Audio System in my car. Without this information I can not do anything....

    Oil change:
    Most people does not even need to read or see the manual about how to do the oil change. Nearly, almost everyone who works and experience with oil change does "NOT" need to read or see the manual. "Where is the oil filter? Where to insert the engine oil? Which screw/bolt/nut to release the oil?" If you work just one time on one car you will understand how it works on every other car.

    Manual-Pictures:
    It does not matter if the picture-parts show Black&White or Color. Either way, if you look at it you still be able to work with it. Even you buy a microwave, appliance, refrigerator, etc. The manual is still black & white pictures. (At less Hyundai are very helpful about parts detail and maintenance-Hard to find from other manufactures).
    "Beside I don't want a pictures of Color because it will take so much time for the site to load".

    Parts Price:
    Only business to business can buy the parts wholesale and the consumer-people like us can buy at retail price. I can go to any of the Hyundai dealers and buy the OEM parts at retail parts. It is not hard to do and everyone can do the same. It just like simply go shopping. "When is about time to do the maintenance, I used to go and shop by manufacture dealers/Parts Department and order the parts and prepare to do the job".
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Oil changes are very basic, so you wouldn't need photos for that. I'm thinking more along the lines of bleeding your brakes, or at least changing the brake pads.

    A Haynes or a Chiltons gives you all that with real photos, all for $17 or so. Still worth it IMO. I only wish they had one for newer Subarus.

    There are some wholesalers that sell to the public. Subaruparts.com is one example. Their prices are 10-20% below retail.

    -juice
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Suggestion:
    Even if it is 10-20% off! They still call retail, but with a discount. Most people never use their head! If you want to get a better of discount price on parts, especially when buying the new car. You just simply ask the person that sell the car for you and have that person buy the parts with tremendous discount. This is just a suggestion for people who wants to do the parts themselve.

    Retail Price:
    Basically at Hyundai! The parts in the website is already cheaper compare to the dealer-parts department. However, it takes more time to get the parts compare to going to the dealer-parts.

    Manual Booklet:
    A good mechanic does not really need a good picture but the book Chilton with color are basically base on older modern car. We just have to wait until our new car become old so that they have information to work on the car and shoot picture. "I really like Hyundai site showing the detail of each part! Especially well into the new model car! I already use a few of those photos and instruction to work on my car! 1. Stereo Wire Harness 2. Brake light wire harness 3. Remove Seats 4. Bumper Detail base on the Crash test. Yes! I have worked with 1,2,3 and they are so simple for me to work with. No hassle, no complaint. The instruction was well enough to work with...
  • gsogymratgsogymrat Member Posts: 97
    I finally got to test drive a Santa Fe. The dealership here never has them in stock but today they had a pewter GLS V6 4x4. I had already driven the Tribute, Escape, RAV4 and Forester. I was pretty impressed with the Santa Fe. I had heard that the 4x4 Santa Fe was somewhat under-powered but I thought it accelerated fine and it cruised at 75 MPH on the highway no problem. The Santa Fe felt heavier and smoother than the other SUVs, more sedan-like. It also seemed it be the most quiet. I LOVED the shiftronic feature, a definite plus. The seats were very comfortable but I did not like the fabric; RAV4 has great fabric on their seats. The cargo space appeared comparable to the Escape/Tribute. The sound of the stereo system surpassed my expectations. The climate control seemed powerful. There were also a lot of little touches I appreciated: the "bell" sound rather than a buzzer for the open door, the center armrest for the back seat, the storage drawer under the passenger seat, the bottle carriers in the doors of the back seat, the cargo anchors that don't get in the way of the cargo tray, etc. The price and warranty are also major selling points. One thing I didn't like was that a factory sunroof is not an option. All things considered I feel the Santa Fe is the best SUV for my needs. The Escape and Tribute drop to runners up on my list because even though their engines zoom zoom they are more expensive, have a shorter warranty and (believe it or not) I trust Hyundai more than Ford for reliability. The RAV4 is appealing because of its gas mileage, fun design and Toyota quality but I think it's engine would burn out pulling my 1700 camper (200lbs over the recommended towing) plus passengers and gear. I know many people love the Forester but to me it seemed like someone designed a Toyota Corolla station wagon with too much head room, plus I don't like that FWD is not an option. Of course I will have to live with the "I drive a Hyundai" stigma but I'm accustom to nonconformity. Incidentally the Hyundai and Toyota salespeople were terrific, zero pressure. The Ford and Mazda salespersons were pretty good and really knew their vehicles. The Subaru sales person was fast-talking, pushy and appeared desperate to sell me anything.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If you are towing, AWD is a big plus. Even RWD is better than FWD. Try pulling a boat up a wet ramp in a FWD and you'll be slip-sliding away.

    Since you liked the Santa Fe, I would stick with an AWD V6 model given you plan to tow.

    -juice
  • gsogymratgsogymrat Member Posts: 97
    I read that the FWD Santa Fe is better for towing than the AWD because the AWD system adds over 300 lbs to the vehicle. Also AWD is more expensive, has higher incident of repairs and costs more to insure.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    gsogymrat- The Santa Fe you test-drove had AWD and you were satisfied with the acceleration so why worry about the extra 300lbs now? Of course AWD is going to cost more but then it's far more capable and useful in a variety of situations. Sure, it's one more thing that can go wrong but then one of the reasons you like the Santa Fe is the length of the warranty. I've never heard about AWD increasing insurance rates. If it does, it would be a minimal increase.

    What I really don't understand is why anyone would buy this type of vehicle without AWD? Getting a 2WD version of any SUV is pretty much admitting that the main purchase concern is the perceived image factor and that the buyer doesn't really care about the real reasons for buying an SUV. In most cases, these buyers would be better off in a minivan. But then there's that image factor to worry about...

    (Sorry for the rant)

    -Frank P.
  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    I would think that having 4x4 would cost less to insure, given that it might not be as likely to end up in a ditch in the snow. Then again, the insurance guys might be wise to the fact that many suv buyers don't know how to drive, and assume that the 4x4 will bail them out of needing to use common sense.

    If you don't want 4x4, get a minivan. They will suit your purposes better all around.
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Most of the average people do not need AWD! Most of these average people do use Off-Road. Most of these people like the high ride and they feel more safe than drive a small car. They often don't do much special activity (camping, snow ski, waterski, etc.). Therefore, Santa Fe offered more variety: such as 4 cylinder, 6 cylinder, ABS, TCS, FWD, AWD, etc...It is use to fit for certain type of people need.

    FWD is stronger and faster than AWD and even save gas. However, you can not do much on Off-Road, loose ability to drive on rain, etc..but better in Tow Weight, but not better if you tow OFF-Road..

    AWD ride is smoother than FWD and can do much better OFF-Road..(I like AWD drive because sometime I go snow ski, waterski, camping, drive in rain, and the smooth ride). However, most average don't do these type of activity and therefore they don't really need AWD.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    hung- Exactly my point. If they don't do any of those things and therefore don't need AWD then they don't need an SUV either (even a car based one).

    -Frank P.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    Audi Quattro's (several models including TT), Jaguar's new X-Type, Subaru Legacy GT, BMW 3 series, and Mercedes new awd sedan. None of these vehicles were designed or intended for off-road usage, but the safety aspect of AWD is becoming a selling point in this area also. FWD is not necessarily faster than AWD, any difference would come from added weight, and that would affect quickness more than top speed. I don't see how FWD would be stronger than AWD, RWD is actually more robust than FWD as the trans and diffs are seperate units and don't share lubricants.
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