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Therefore my issued here was the hitting impact and the price issued.....I will send the letter,prove, site, and inspection document to Hyundai-USA as well.
-Frank P.
-juice
Let's talk about the rear bumper damage: If the rear bumper of the Santa Fe was damage and I know that the cost of the Bumper is about $240 include paint because most of the place do charge the paint and ship it. The reflector light on the bumper $40 and crank part hold the bumper about $150. Total less $500. What is the labor cost since only need to replace the bumper and & crank part hold bumper? The IIHS estimated cost was too high on the Santa Fe. Maybe they only make a phone call instead of actually fix it themselve. Off-course phone call, everyone want to estimated higher to cover everything.
Last time I replace the front bumper of the Celica with less $400 for everything included paint... average labor charge would be $80 per hours and how many hours do they need to do replace the bumper. Less than 4 hours. Since most of the shop already made money from the parts as well because they bought it in at wholesale price.
My other main point is that most of this body shops are cheating when it comes to insurance paid. Happen here all the time (San Francisco). The real actual cost is not as you think. I do most of this light work myself and I really know the cost...
I am pointing out that most of the shops would cheat by adding labor charge and other hidden parts price as well. The more parts they buy the more money they make because they bought it at wholesale price and charge on invoice at retail price. Most of these shops would always have extra parts left-over and they would use them for the next same car and then invoice again and make more money out of that "Left Over Parts".
More parts more money!
Add more labor more money!
(They use this on insurance claim but when you do it without the insurance claim then is a different story)! I have friends who work in body shop and I know how exactly the procedure work.
As far as the test go! I know that there should be a bumper, paint, reflector, screws/bolts, and crank parts hold the bumper that are needed to replace but when I check out the "RETAIL COST" and add labor was not even comes any close to the the price as IIHS was given. This is base on the rear bumper crash. This is also base on the IIHS test damage part as I check it. I have calculated at higher cost already.....Most of the shop would say this "Oh" if you need to replace this part than we need to replace every other component parts as well. But then most of other component parts are not require such as the screw/bolts which they can take out from the current car and use it. Instead, they order more add to invoice and then keep those parts.
Some car have less component parts and other have more components parts. If the car have more component parts are likely to be charge more by the shop. Most of the big car have more component parts. Example of Component parts: Let's say if the Santa Fe rear window was broken then there is lots of component parts involve. The rear window defoster, LED brake lights, Spring Handle because the window can open, etc... But most of other car rear window only have the window defoster. While the Santa Fe have much for component parts involve. "Now" you know what I mean by component parts. However, base on this low crash test the Santa Fe most of this component parts are not necessary need to change but the shop or estimated would have add it anyway. The more component parts the car have the higher the cost. Therefore, I said the cost is not really what you think they are when it cames to insurance claim...
I looked at a Santa Fe today, and found the rear bumper to be so small as to give more proof to me that the damage estimated by the IIHS is accurate. Look at the bumpers yourself, the Forester and Escape have bigger bumpers that stick out further than the Santa Fe's.
My total message to everyone:::
If you need to repair any body works and paid with your own money; make sure you go and get a few estimated for different shop and told them that you are paying....If insurance claim, then you would not worry...
You mentioned about 20 years in the business but did you ever fix the body work yourself?.... I have worked with a few light body works a few times in the past. My friends work in body shop as well as some of my friends own their auto shop. I visited them very often and they always charge less than every other shop. The do good reputation business never overcharge customers.
The first time I was involved with my Celica bumper damage. Call a few shops and they all have different price estimated. $1200, $900, and $1430; labors estimated nearly all match about 3 hours. I did not want to use my insurance with the $500 deductible. Finally, I have asked my friend who work in the auto shop not body and placed the part for me. retail price I paid at $213.72 for the bumper and went to the body shop for matching paint charge $118-over price but I did it anyway. Take me less than 2 hours to replace the bumper........
My total message to everyone:::
If you need to repair any body works and paid with your own money; make sure you go and get a few estimated for different shop and told them that you are paying....If insurance claim, then you would not worry...
You mentioned about 20 years in the business but did you ever fix the body work yourself?.... I have worked with a few light body works a few times in the past. My friends work in body shop as well as some of my friends own their auto shop. I visited them very often and they always charge less than every other shop. The do good reputation business never overcharge customers.
The first time I was involved with my Celica bumper damage. Call a few shops and they all have different price estimated. $1200, $900, and $1430; labors estimated nearly all match about 3 hours. I did want to use my insurance with the $500 deductible. Finally, I have asked my friend who work in the auto shop not body and placed the part for me. retail price I paid at $213.72 for the bumper and went to the body shop for matching paint charge $118-over price but I did it anyway. Take me less than 2 hours to replace the bumper........
Good luck,
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
308 and 309 are also duplicates, with different authors listed.
I agree with our drummer friend. If Hyundai takes steps to improve on the design, good for them. Mercedes sometimes uses feedback from IIHS tests to make safety improvements.
-juice
The names switch is related to the database problems we've been having the last few days. The tech people are working on it. Thanks.
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Like I mentioned before: I paid at retail price.....
You can not really order the aftermarket parts because they don't have it. Most of these parts are belong to manufactures and you have to order from manufactures/dealers. Most of the shops would go into the catalog or the site to order the parts from manufactures/dealers. They have to use their "login", or "Business ID", etc. in order to buy from the manufactures. They would buy the products at wholesale price but consumers (outside people) have to buy it at retail cost. The shop will charge the parts as retail price as well. I know exactly how the procedure go.
I am pointing out that most of the shops would cheat by adding labor charge and other hidden parts price as well. The more parts they buy the more money they make because they bought it at wholesale price and charge on invoice at retail price. Most of these shops would always have extra parts left-over and they would use them for the next same car and then invoice again and make more money out of that "Left Over Parts".
More parts more money!
Add more labor more money!
(They use this on insurance claim but when you do it without the insurance claim then is a different story)! I have friends who work in body shop and I know how exactly the procedure work.
As far as the test go! I know that there should be a bumper, paint, reflector, screws/bolts, and crank parts hold the bumper that are needed to replace but when I check out the "RETAIL COST" and add labor was not even comes any close to the the price as IIHS was given. This is base on the rear bumper crash. This is also base on the IIHS test damage part as I check it. I have calculated at higher cost already.....Most of the shop would say this "Oh" if you need to replace this part than we need to replace every other component parts as well. But then most of other component parts are not require such as the screw/bolts which they can take out from the current car and use it. Instead, they order more add to invoice and then keep those parts.
Some car have less component parts and other have more components parts. If the car have more component parts are likely to be charge more by the shop. Most of the big car have more component parts. Example of Component parts: Let's say if the Santa Fe rear window was broken then there is lots of component parts involve. The rear window defoster, LED brake lights, Spring Handle because the window can open, etc... But most of other car rear window only have the window defoster. While the Santa Fe have much for component parts involve. "Now" you know what I mean by component parts. However, base on this low crash test the Santa Fe most of this component parts are not necessary need to change but the shop or estimated would have add it anyway. The more component parts the car have the higher the cost. Therefore, I said the cost is not really what you think they are when it cames to insurance claim...
Professional insurance adjusters estimated the damage on the tested vehicles, not body shop estimators. They weren't out to pad the costs because they weren't getting paid to fix the cars. All insurance companies are very cost conscious and try to pay the least amount for repair work.
It would be more sense if the crash test show the result of which car hit on which car. According to this test, most of the trucks are even worse than the Santa Fe but I don't want to point that out...If the Santa Fe versus the Ford Truck, I would said the Santa Fe is total damage and while the Ford Truck can drive away. If the Forester versus the Truck base! I would said that the Forester will face more disaster than the Santa Fe would have...
The chance of people moving and hit the wall will likely to have their foot on the brake while test just let it goes. The heavy the car the more impact damage according to the IIHS test. This is so obvious....
The bumper on the trucks and large SUV are mostly have a chrome/metal type and very costly while the Santa Fe, Forester, Escape, RAV4, CRV4 are type of plastic/rubber type. I would like to see the Forester verus the Santa Fe impact and let us see which car get more damage.... This is more interest to people to see than anything...
Since the Ford Truck was bad on this test and why don't they try to test the Santa Fe, Forester, etc. crash against the Ford Truck and see which one will get more damage. The smaller the SUV the higher risk you get if facing SUV & Truck Base vehicles..
I already added the higher cost on most of the parts and extra parts from the Santa Fe rear end damage and the labors require and they are not come any close to the IIHS crash test price quote on the rear as well as the RAV4...
There is plenty behind those plastic covers, too.
If you want to see a simulation of a crash, we'll have to wait for the IIHS offset crash tests.
-juice
As we talked and poked around inside the Sante Fe looking for a place to put the changer the stereo guy started asking about the Hyundai. He seemed pretty impressed with the auto. He had not seen one because there are only 3 in our area (so far as I have seen).
He asked about other SUVs I had compared when shopping and I said I had considered the Escape but decided against it. His reply is interesting.
"Well you sure made a good choice there (not buying the Escape). We have had a couple of them in here to work on and the quality of the workmanship is very poor on those. They are not put together very well from what I have seen."
So there you go. An opinion from a neutral source who sees just about every kind of auto there is at his electronics shop.
Maybe it should read "Poor Quality is Job One!"
I give up, we are going to disagree on this issue. You obviously can bear no criticism of the Santa Fe, whether it is warranted or not. You also obviously miss the point of the test, which is to show how vehicles bumpers perform at protecting expensive parts at low speeds.
The low crash test speed suppose to rely on car versus car instead of car versus the wall. What are the chance of people car crash in the wall compare crash in the car. Even in the parking lot, most car would hit other parking car instead of the wall. Even if they are about to hit the wall their foot would be at the brake...It is so obviously that most of the bigger SUV and Truck get worse accordingly to this low speed test! I have mentioned so many times that each car parts have different price:
1. The bigger parts the more expensive
2. The car have more components are more expensive
3. The bumper with paint job needed are more expensive
***A few of these SUV do not need a paint job on the bumper and you should know that which one do and which are not?**** They all have their own meaning:
A:>Bigger Truck and Bigger SUV most likely have the chrome/metal and show it powerful, strong, and work heavy duty.
B:>Car with bumper paint show it owns beauty and look very nice
C:>Car with bumper "NO" paint does not look pretty but help save money on maintenance.
I know that the Santa Fe damage price are better than most big SUV and Truck but I don't want to compare with it. Because I know if the Santa Fe versus those trucks and large SUV, I would close my eyes and shut my mouth....
The Hyundai Site show all of the parts and component parts and so much information for maintenance and best of all the price. The pictures show so detail where the screw/bolt/nuts located and therefore it is easy to remove and attach the parts. Hardly see any better layout from other manufacture website...
"...however, there is always room for further improvement. As this is a brand new model and Hyundai’s first sport utility in the United States, we believe there are ways in which we can make this an even better vehicle and we will continue to work toward providing Hyundai owners with the best value vehicle possible. While we may not be in complete agreement with the testing methodology used by IIHS, we understand, and share, their desire to reduce costs for car owners who may have vehicle damge from an accident...
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
"While we may not be in complete agreement with the TESTING METHODOLOGY used by IIHS, we understand, and SHARE, their desire to reduce costs for car owners who may have vehicle damage from an accident..."
SF is heavier, sure more force will rebound toward the SF bumper from the pole or the wall while hitted.
If SF hits a car or object less stronger or heavier than it, then I think SF damages will be less. But the objest being hit will suffer more force.
Let's have a front & front hits test between SF & Forester, & between SF & Escape!
I guess the less damage SUV will be SF!
I believe body damage is a function of structural rigidity and strenght, and not MASS. A small MB can have a head-on collision with a heavy american car but still maintain the passenger compartment of the MB intact.
Let's imagine two SF's coming together at same speed then get a head-on collision. Both will come to a complete stop on impact. But if the other car is a lighter Mazda tribute, then on impact, the SF will continue to go forward and push the tribute backwards.
Assuming both SF and tribute passenger compartments were intact, the occupants in the lighter tribute would suffer greater injury due to greater decelerative force.
My 2 cents.
-Frank P.
Just because we don't buy Escape or Forester?
This is a forum for SF, Forester & Triscape fans, me, Hung & so many others happy SF fans is perfectly "LEGAL" & "Free" to express/share our opinions in here, just like all other Subaru & Ford fans do.
If you don't happy because our SF look better than the powerful but "dwarf" Subaru, then just leave us & go back to your designated Subaru Forum & make comedy for your own small group!
I should also join the Durango & GMC safari Forum because I also owned Durango & GMC, why I don't & only interested in this forum, the reason is simply because I find this car (SF) is really a good deal plus fun & comfortable to drive, I would highly recommended it to new SUV buyers. Not because I owned SF then I want other to follow me, see I never recommend my 5.9L Durango & the GMC safari to anyone.
Another reason why I want to argue with those diehard Subaru fans, is because I can't stand them criticizes/insults Hyundai's past products & fans.
I warn you one more time, behave your words, it is a public forum, if u don't like us please leave, do not try to say bad things about us in front of others.
-Frank P.
Personally, I think the Forester's bumpers have room for improvement. They did not get the best rating, either. I think that at 5mph there should be ZERO damage to vehicles marketed as rough and sturdy, as these are.
-juice
-Frank P.
If, by your theory, the lighter one has less damage, what would happen if you put wheels on a Ming vase and crashed it against a wall? It is certainly lighter than most cars...
Why don't they make bumpers out of wood? It is probably cheaper than metal or plastic, and can be sanded if scratched. It would also sustain far greater impacts than plastic. Plus, it looks good (when done good!).
Bring back wood!!!
They don't want pedestrians to get splinters..
Actually, read back a bit and you'll see several of my suggestions for the 2003 Forester. Specifically, I'd like to see a 5 speed automatic, a turbo option, and the Outback's rear suspension (to eliminate the rear shock towers).
As long as they can keep the sporty, nimble handling as well.
BTW, my little "dwarf" can carry a 1040 pound payload, far more than a Sante Fe can carry. So I guess it's like Jet Li (small and powerful) vs. Steven Seagal (kind of overweight).
-juice
-Frank P.
He needs to hit the gym, if you ask me.
Hyundai showed a concept with a 2.7l engine that made 225hp or so. I'm sure we'd all like to see that offered!
-juice
Here is a sample of our Santa Fe Club Member Story:
"Someone broke into my rear passengers window this weekend....I had an estimate done through Hyundai who wanted to charge a total of $950.00 to replace and re-paint.....I would suggest not going through Hyundai if this happens to someone. I went to an auto body shop who charged $250.00 to replace and fix the frame"
*****This is what I have been saying all this time but you guy just don't get it*****The estimated was nearly 4 times (not 3, not 2, not 1 time higher but nearly 4 times higher). When you make a call into the dealers for estimated they are different if you put them in the body shop.....Understand yet....
Here is a Hyundai Site that show you how simple it is to maintenance on the parts: I guess I don't need to prove about the parts price because they are amazing...
http://www.hmaservice.com/webtech
1. Model choose > Santa Fe
2. Year chose > 1-2001
3. Engine > All engines
4. Body (Interior & Exterior)
5. Grill, Molding & Bumpers
6. Choose either Front Bumper or Rear Bumper
7. Removal & Install
****Take a look at it; how simple and easy to removal & install****
Do you think a bigger engine mean go faster than smaller engine? That is a no no! Bigger engine is simple mean you can carried more weight. It does not really need the requirement to go faster (some does but mostly not). So what if the Forester is just a little faster than V6 Santa Fe. Do you think the Forester 2.5 liter engine can go faster than the Celica GTS 1.8 liter?.....What I am saying is that! It does not matter how fast the car can perform but when it comes to SUV you just really need the right type of SUV that can carried the weight that fit your need.
Santa Fe already above average as well as the speed need it. Therefore, I never have to upgrade for more horsepower. When I need speed I just shift to lower gear and the body already moving backward. I don't even need more than this..."Just happen to me again! My wife scream at me! I cut into the middle lane on the freeway because I don't want to drive behind the big truck. I did not even know that my Santa Fe Break-In that faster since I only have 3300 miles on it.. The car is getting faster....
1. Well Beautiful look
2. Amazing Warranty
3. Best Prices and Options
4. Good price parts and easy to maintenance
5. Wonderful Aftermarket products availability
(These are way over average people need and requirement)
You go aftermarket, and you can find lower repair prices, for any brand. The key is, the quality may not be the same. Consumer Reports tested some aftermarket panels for rust and found they were usually not nearly as good as OE parts.
On a new vehicle I would demand OE parts. If you want to save a little money, go through a wholesaler, but still get quality OE parts, IMO.
That looks like a pretty good on-line owner's service manual. I didn't see photos, though, are there any?
-juice
The shop can only order the OEM parts anyway. There is not really any aftermarket parts especially when it comes to new model car. Those are OEM parts and order strictly from Hyundai Parts.....
https://www.hyundaiusaparts.com/consumer/index2.html
1) Click on Parts Catalog
2) Select Santa Fe 2001
Photos Manual:
The site show the good manual as well as the layout of the photos! Didn't you see? Probably you have to check it again.
http://www.hmaservice.com/webtech/
I'd spring for a printed manual with more detailed instructions and more photos, since I do all the maintenance myself. Something like a Chilton's.
BTW, I agree with the strategy of buying parts from wholesalers and then doing the work myself, but keep in mind we are a very small minority. 95% of owners will just take it to a shop.
This way I spend only $9 on each oil change (with an OE filter and a crush washer), and under $100 for my 30k mile service.
-juice
The site show very detail on doing almost every parts of car. This is more important than anything because it save lots of time to fix & maintenance the car. "Remember almost every parts". The site have help showed me the detail on the radio wire harness and therefore I was able to install the Video and Audio System in my car. Without this information I can not do anything....
Oil change:
Most people does not even need to read or see the manual about how to do the oil change. Nearly, almost everyone who works and experience with oil change does "NOT" need to read or see the manual. "Where is the oil filter? Where to insert the engine oil? Which screw/bolt/nut to release the oil?" If you work just one time on one car you will understand how it works on every other car.
Manual-Pictures:
It does not matter if the picture-parts show Black&White or Color. Either way, if you look at it you still be able to work with it. Even you buy a microwave, appliance, refrigerator, etc. The manual is still black & white pictures. (At less Hyundai are very helpful about parts detail and maintenance-Hard to find from other manufactures).
"Beside I don't want a pictures of Color because it will take so much time for the site to load".
Parts Price:
Only business to business can buy the parts wholesale and the consumer-people like us can buy at retail price. I can go to any of the Hyundai dealers and buy the OEM parts at retail parts. It is not hard to do and everyone can do the same. It just like simply go shopping. "When is about time to do the maintenance, I used to go and shop by manufacture dealers/Parts Department and order the parts and prepare to do the job".
A Haynes or a Chiltons gives you all that with real photos, all for $17 or so. Still worth it IMO. I only wish they had one for newer Subarus.
There are some wholesalers that sell to the public. Subaruparts.com is one example. Their prices are 10-20% below retail.
-juice
Even if it is 10-20% off! They still call retail, but with a discount. Most people never use their head! If you want to get a better of discount price on parts, especially when buying the new car. You just simply ask the person that sell the car for you and have that person buy the parts with tremendous discount. This is just a suggestion for people who wants to do the parts themselve.
Retail Price:
Basically at Hyundai! The parts in the website is already cheaper compare to the dealer-parts department. However, it takes more time to get the parts compare to going to the dealer-parts.
Manual Booklet:
A good mechanic does not really need a good picture but the book Chilton with color are basically base on older modern car. We just have to wait until our new car become old so that they have information to work on the car and shoot picture. "I really like Hyundai site showing the detail of each part! Especially well into the new model car! I already use a few of those photos and instruction to work on my car! 1. Stereo Wire Harness 2. Brake light wire harness 3. Remove Seats 4. Bumper Detail base on the Crash test. Yes! I have worked with 1,2,3 and they are so simple for me to work with. No hassle, no complaint. The instruction was well enough to work with...
Since you liked the Santa Fe, I would stick with an AWD V6 model given you plan to tow.
-juice
What I really don't understand is why anyone would buy this type of vehicle without AWD? Getting a 2WD version of any SUV is pretty much admitting that the main purchase concern is the perceived image factor and that the buyer doesn't really care about the real reasons for buying an SUV. In most cases, these buyers would be better off in a minivan. But then there's that image factor to worry about...
(Sorry for the rant)
-Frank P.
If you don't want 4x4, get a minivan. They will suit your purposes better all around.
FWD is stronger and faster than AWD and even save gas. However, you can not do much on Off-Road, loose ability to drive on rain, etc..but better in Tow Weight, but not better if you tow OFF-Road..
AWD ride is smoother than FWD and can do much better OFF-Road..(I like AWD drive because sometime I go snow ski, waterski, camping, drive in rain, and the smooth ride). However, most average don't do these type of activity and therefore they don't really need AWD.
-Frank P.