Suzuki Grand Vitara vs Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape vs Saturn



  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    Also, rwd is superior in the area of weight transfer. I have a friend who had a Mustang SVO. His coworker had a Taurus SHO. Both were rated at around the same hp. The SVO beat the SHO hands down EVERY TIME as the SHO was left spinning its tires.

    As far as AWD, that is even better, despite the weight disadvantage. All four tires putting traction to the road. Let's see: 400 HP divided by 4 equals 100 HP per tire versus maybe a Mustang 5.0 which is (let's pretend) 250 HP divided by 2 is 125 hp per tire. Can you say "WHEELSPIN"?

    Of course, you want low rpm torque when off road. Same basic principles apply.
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    True (meaning all wheels have near equal torque all the time) AWD is superior and a beautiful thing ;-)
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Yes! Those small car with 4/AWD system work to go safer because only if those people drive on raining, slip, bumping, hill, and wet road. Most average people do not really drive in this condition. All depend on regional of people live too and people want. However, the 4/AWD system always waste more gas compare to the 2WD system. Therefore, most manufactures built SUV with variety to choose from that meet people need.

    Yes! The Santa Fe FWD is stronger than the AWD. The FWD is faster and can tow more weight. Yes! AWD system is alway heavy than the FWD system and therefore, loosing the weight ability to carry and tow. However, with the 4/AWD system on the Santa Fe, it is still good enough to tow. Especially tow off-road condition.

    I am talking about average people need. Therefore, you will find that the percentage of vehicle on the road most likely FWD and some RWD, but 4/AWD less.
  • FrankMcFrankMc Member Posts: 228
    but I live in Central PA. If you are on a flat road you made a wrong turn and must be in Maryland. We get our share of rain and snow as well. AWD cars are popular here... Now if you lived in El Paso, Texas I might agree more in your assessment that most people don't drive in the rain or on hills.
  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    Yes, but try putting a plow on a Santa Fe!!

    ha ha ha ha

    good luck!!!
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    what you mean I can't put snow plow on. i get snow plow 35% cheap at hyundai-plows-r-us. my brothers cousin put one on for me, very nice! make my top-of-line santa fe even more top-of-line!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    AWD helps in snow, rain, gravel, and dirt, but also in dry conditions.

    It reduces understeer, spreads the weight more evenly, and shares acceleration duties among 4 tires instead of 2 that are also burdened with steering. Tire wear is more even, and there is far more margin for driver error.

    For me, it's totally worth the tradeoffs of cost, weight, and off-the-line acceleration.

  • speterson1speterson1 Member Posts: 228
    Shame on you tonychrys....but a good impersonation nonetheless...
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    That's why I mentioned about regional. Therefore, the company like Subaru are more attractive to those region. Even with that! Most of the manufacture now-a-day built SUV with more variety to choose from that meet the people need. That's just a sample of the Santa Fe option I was given and I am sure most of other SUV as well too.

    The people who drive mostly are FWD & RWD and oftenly do tires rotate and therefore the tire keep balance as well. 4/AWD is far better than FWD & RWD but not always people need when it comes to (1. cost/price 2. gas mileage 3. maintenance-more parts, fluid, etc.)
  • hunter36hunter36 Member Posts: 29
    Gee, I haven't seen this much testosterone induced man-talk since I was 16 and arguing that "my Chevy can beat your Ford".

    Not sure which msg. I liked the best though, was it the one about AWD being superior on a dry road or the one telling me I should have bought a mini-van instead of my FWD SF...both of them were a hoot!

    I know, I know, you guys were just kidding. Obviously, nobody is THAT lame!

    Hung: Know anyone around Quang Tri?
  • omnibudomnibud Member Posts: 24
    tonychrys, you bad man, hilarious......
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    I lived in North Vietnam-Hai Phong when I was young/small and therefore I am not familiar with Quang Tri? I don't really much remember about the road and image about my country anymore. However, I will visit someday soon. But one thing I really know is that most of the vehicle people drive in Vietnam are Hyundai/Kia...My parents, brothers, and friends have visited Vietnam and that what they told me.
  • gsogymratgsogymrat Member Posts: 97
    I don't care what the "original" purpose of the SUV is. Why should I spend more money for a feature that I don't need, especially when it reduces gas mileage and performance? It doesn't snow where I live, I don't go off-road and I don't need AWD to drive in the rain. I've had a Jeep with part-time 4WD for 15 years and I have engaged 4WD TWICE, and once was when I first bought it just to see how it worked. My Allstate agent said AWD costs more to insure because it costs more to repair. I'm not getting a minivan because I don't like the way they drive. And if I was that image conscious I sure would not be interested in a Hyundai, which for most people ranks right up there with Yugo.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    gsogymrat- If you're concerned about gas mileage and performance, why are you driving a Jeep? Especially since going off-road (which you admit you've never done) is one of the few things they excel at. Regarding what your Allstate agent said, if an AWD system needs repairing, it won't be the insurance company that pays for it. It'll either be under warranty or else the money's coming out of the owner's pocket. If the agent was referring to repairing damage from an accident, it would normally have to be a pretty severe accident to affect the AWD system. In which case, the vehicle would either be totaled or the repair bill so big that a couple of hundred extra to repair the AWD would be a small fraction of the total bill.

    -Frank P.
  • gsogymratgsogymrat Member Posts: 97
    The only reason I drive a Jeep is because it was the only small SUV I could afford at the time that could pull my camper and haul my stuff. I've considered getting a station wagon but I have not found one that I like with a V6 in my price range (under $22K).
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Since before I only mentioned about the Santa Fe following power buy terms:
    1. Best Warranty
    2. Excellent Feature Options and Price
    3. Beautiful look/layout exterior & interior
    4. Good price parts and easy to maintenance
    5. Wonderful aftermarket products availability
    Now Add #6; Relatively the top-notch crash test result compare to it competitors.

    Surely this is not a "Show-off" but it is simply the fact.
  • suvshopper4suvshopper4 Member Posts: 1,110
    Hung, Hats off to Hyundai on the crash test results.

  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    #4 should read: Good parts prices and easy to maintain.

    #6 should read: Relatively, the top-notch crash test results in comparison to its competitors.

    (no charge for free grammar check)
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Thank you sasquatch_2000 for the grammar correction!
  • suvshopper4suvshopper4 Member Posts: 1,110
    Hung, we knew what you meant. No problem.

    Sasquatch, no charge for the grammar check?
    What a swell guy you are.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'll check out the videos tonight, but Hyundai deserves a pat on the back for their rating in the difficult IIHS offset crash test. Previously, only the Forester got their best rating.


  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Hung- Actually, you had mentioned all those advantages previously (just not yet this week) :-) why do I get the feeling that you won't quit until everyone owns a Santa Fe? ;-)

    -Frank P.
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    Hi Hung & all happy SF "smart" fans & all angry Triscape & Jealous Subaru fans!

    I'm back, here is the Chinese guy "Bill Tung" again - (the one's that represent a quarter of human populations on earth). Are there any Chinese guy like me around Edmunds? It seems our Chinese reputation down like a drain because China challenging the US superpower (Even Japan sinking ship in Hawaii can't have a satisfied solution accepted by those victim's families), Please do not kick me out because my origin is Chinese! Ok, no more politic.

    After 1 week of absence from Edmunds (Busy in doing my Canadian tax returns), I'm again busy reading posts in Edmunds.

    Hung! I have been mentioned by die-hard Subaru's guy that I graduated form the same debate school with U, I am glad we are, at least we have made a good judgement in our SF. From the very beginning we don't care how others criticize Hyundai's SF but keep continue to point out the existing facts, showing photos comparisons, figure out those faulty posts try to hurt SF, those silly but rich guys keep laughing at us in their "Big Brand Name" SUV. But we are not wasting our time, we have gain a lot of support by others Edmunds members & making a lot of 2001's SUV buyers test drive SF before they make their purchase decisions.

    As there is a old Chinese Saying "You can never find 2 sharp points in a needle!". No car or anything will be perfect, if the car test is perfect, then reputation comes, then "PRICE INCREASE" - then only rich man can afford -- then those not rich people have to look for cheaper but not so perfect SUV.

    I am so glad SF shows those bullier that she is not unsafe! & even more happy is the result is not all GOOD's, look at BMW X5 come with a fat look (compare to SF),(Have all "Good" rating in safety test, basic model asking CDN$50,000+ Vs CDN$29,000 that I paid for my fully load SF).

    There are still room for SF to improve, I don't think they will increase or re-adjust their SF already under market price too badly.

    Anyway, I think all SF buyer is smart because they invested in SF before the test, if they buy after the test at a higher price then just like Stock market, u follows other people to buy something the price already told the quality, then I don't think is smart, may be u can say just like those seniors buy Subaru because they think is safer.

    Now I have assignments for all Subaru fans to do - try to attack the not-yet-proven SF engine liability & accessories & keep continue mention the few hundred dollars more rear bumper damage cost difference between SF & Forester. OH sorry! Forester fall to the 2nd seat on the safety list.

    Otherwise, U guys have nothing to argue. (Why not stop criticizing the beautiful SF's unproven subjects, just talk about how u like your Forester! then I will say u are a good boy!)

    PS: BTW my SF reach 140,000Km yesterday, still under pressure (doing delivery jobs) I never treat it well, just like a World Derby race. mainly drive in very slopy mountain & high speed around 80-160km in Vancouver Canada Highway #1 from Hope(where the movie "First Blood" shot) to Lion Bay on the Sea-to-Sky highway (1 hour drive before reaching the world #1 sky resort "Whitler").

    My SF is guarantee finish break-in period 'cause the start up is so fast I can say at least 9 sec from 0-100km even on "D" drive, I beat all Toyota Celica on Traffic light get-set-go racing! (May be those kids driving Celica are just stare at my SF and loosing control -- but it look good to follow a SF (I have been told this by a lot of friends).

    Have seem another about 10 new SF on road this 2 weeks. Have took pictures, will post ASAP!


  • john284john284 Member Posts: 71
    So, anyway, My SF is just as good as your SF if not better in crash test, but my model is in its third or fourth years, and my car will be more reliable than yours.
    All above statements are significant only in statistical sense.
    Your sf is just as goofy as mine and it looks like an buffed triburan,
    Anyway, yours is cheap and you get what you pay for, even if your 40mph crash test is good, it doesn't mean that other tests are up to par, what if you are rear ended (most likely to happen)?
    The damage will drain your wallet--there goes all your savings from buying a HD.
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Welcome Back!
    Haven't get to view your comments for awhile!

    Smile on the Face:
    Anyway, I see plenty of Santa Fe driving on the road now-a-day in San Francisco too. Passing side by side as we smile and show some sign/symbol of reality/thumb-up.

    Yes! My Santa Fe got into a break-in period very fast too. I drove faster than average people and there is definitely lots of hill in San Francisco. This is also the reason why I want the 4/AWD system. I can surely tell you that my car is faster than before.

    Stock Market Value:
    Most of the Santa Fe on the dealers is rolling out the lots very quickly but "Top Model" have to make deposit. It is like line-up for the ticket on the Titanic. I remember that I have to wait for the 4th weeks of Titanic show in order to get ticket on line especially here in San Francisco. The top model of Santa Fe was even bought by the salesperson and therefore even make it harder for people to get. I remember when I picked up my Santa Fe at the dealer and there was about 4 nice Santa Fe was owned by the salesperson and manager of the dealers. They even show me there SF. Yes! The Santa Fe is harder to get now and price are even higher because of the deposit-waiting list.

    Reliability Attack:
    We are not sure how exactly the Santa Fe reliable are. There are plenty of people on this forum attack the Hyundai quality now-a-day. We just have to wait for year(s) to come and judge this argument. However, I am very confident with the Santa Fe as you know it is already proven better than the Tribute/Escape because of its recalls. I am confident that the Santa Fe will not break down. Since my car is even run faster, feel more power, and smoother too.
  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    I didn't know that driving faster breaks your car in quicker. What is a "reliability attack"?
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    We (SF fans) never say Hyundai's make better car than Subaru.
    Don't let the crash car result (the most important test, 'cause it relates to the driver life's safety) make you feel sad & saying some nonsense words.

    Can't agree what you say "yours is cheap and you get what you pay for, even if your 40mph crash test is good, it doesn't mean that other tests are up to par, what if you are rear ended (most likely to happen)?" My SF is closely to CDN$30,000 & is financing from bank. This is a lot of money if you are belong to a working class.
    Your Subaru Forester is also similar to this price range, WHY u not mention it "Cheap!"

    Last, the crash test results is always mention by your fellow die hard Suby's fans in the past said how safe the Forester was, now you suddenly change your situation to not recognize the crash test results, what are person u are, u must be a student of the Brush's administration, today says "I'm Sorry", tomorrow says "Is your fault"!

    Good luck to your Future Forester sale!
    and stick to it forever!

  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    What I really mean is that! We do not know how good and reliable the Santa Fe are yet! However, people keep attack about the Hyundai quality is poor and suck. You can says whatever you want but there is no prove! Just like before some people said that the Santa Fe crash test is going to be very bad but instead of "top-notch". Reliable > This was also the issue. We can comments now but don't say it too soon. I feel confident that the Santa Fe is a reliable car. "Time will tell". The most recent miles on the Santa Fe car was about 20k miles and there was nothing wrong with the car yet.

    What is a good miles before the car break-down consider a reliable car? Some people said 60k, other said 80k, and most said 100k miles. At what point can we judge the car is a reliable car. My Santa Fe is driving under a very bad condition road. San Francisco! Too much traffic-(engine have to be 'on' for an hour to work and for another hour going home..within 15 miles only), too much hills (engine have to work harder..almost everydays and at lunch time too).
    >>>>Onother important thing is that I know my Santa Fe comes with the Transmission Oil Cooler>>>>
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    Not Ford Moters.

    I think the Forester do.

    Subaru's fans & its advertisment always mention only Forester rated GOOD in mini SUV's Crash test. They think only they can make safe car and nobody can. Shame on Subaru fan's, too proud & not humble enough in their appreciation of their dwarf's high ceiling sedan in the past! Now deserve drop to the 2nd seat in the crash test safety results.

    Good job Hyundai SF! Show all your competitors how good u are! But do not too proud or critics others since they can improve as well, please do not increase your price so soon, let more lower class buyers can tastes you.

    Hope those (inmature but rich) people can learn from this lesson, do not bully others, even the weakest (Hyundai's) may one day match or better than the strongest (BMW/Lexus etc., sorry Forester is not qualified because of its look, if they can make some better look SUV like Jeep Cherokee/Lexus/BMW/Benz M-class then I will consider become a Subaru's owner.)
    The so-call powerful Forester engine & handling is not really effective in city slow speed traffic compared to others, so sorry it can not be the only reason (not safest anymore!) to buy Forester instead of other same/better equips SUV.

    Just for laughs!
    So sorry Subaru, keep improve your body shape.... go to the gym everyday... hope one day your legs will be longer & look better .... so you can participate in the Miss World's beauty contest... Don't forget sell your body really cheap to your future "Very Smart Buyers".

  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Ah yes.... the Hung and Tung stand-up comedy team is in full stride now! I humbly yield the stage to these all-knowing masters of subtlety. Let the royal reign of the Santa Fe begin. Long live the king! Frank P.
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    Oh no! Hung, the p0926 again doesn't look quite comfortable with what we wrote.

    How about try to write some negative things of Santa Fe & positive things of Forester then post it.

    Also question the accuracy of last nite IIHS test!

    or perhaps trade our SF for Forester

    or surrender & call him the King!

    It may make him feel happy, how do u think?

    :) just for laugh!

    your friendly member,
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Let the royal reign of the Santa Fe begin. Long live the king!

    Sound just like in the old time movie when the soldier, etcs. bow for the king!

    I am not sure if this is a (comedy-joke) (give-up) (jealous-word)!

    I am not sure if I should say "thank you" for yielding the stage to the stand-up "Hung" & "Tung"!

    However, co-incidently that our name really rhyme sound like a poet. We are definitely "not" plan this up for a team work since we both lived in different country. Surely, we have make good friendly relationship inserting our comments here at Edmunds/Townhall. Not just me and Tung but for nearly all of our Santa Fe owners who have put time and effort writing their comments within this site. We really do have good experience and trading experience and knowledge about our vehicle status. I was being able to learn more about the Santa Fe quality. However, the more I know about the Santa Fe I love the car even more because they are all nearly positive things. For example: I didn't know that my car comes with the Transmission Oil Cooler, Safety test was exactly expected, aftermarket parts information, making more friendship within the Forum and this site, etc.......
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    Are U related to the Anti-French colonization's historic Hero Hung's family, origins from China? I had learned a little bit of vietnam history from my Chinese History course 25 year ago in Hong Kong saying that about 100-200 years ago there is a group of Chinese emigrants in Vietnam eventually helping Vietnamese against the French invasion, they are with last name HUNG. Also, Hung is a very popular Last name in Chinese community, whenever we mention this last name it means related to Heroic person. Do u know the Ku Fu movie star Hung Kim Bo, he is one of the classmate of Jackie Chan.

    There are also Lastname like Fung, Gung, Lung, Bung, Sung, Jung, Kung, Pung, Qung, Yung in Chinese community.

    My last name is also very popular, the Hong Kong special administration district Top leader, Tung Kin Wah is an example. He father Tung Ho Wan used to own the largest cargo fleet team in the world few decades ago - had title as the "World's Ship King". In my neighborhood in Port Moody, BC, Canada, 3 families out of 80 house with the lastname Tung.
  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    I wonder if they had Hyundai ships?
  • john284john284 Member Posts: 71
    Come on, let's face it, HD is cheaper, and rear-end crash results I saw on Niteline on NBC showed that both RAV-4 and Santa Fe fared really badly in tests.
    I think a perfect test will be to do a crash test with Santa Fe hitting Forester head on and then back into each other, and see who got a bigger bill.
    I am not as serious as you guys are, but let's see five years down the road, who got the last laugh.
    I think most news or released tests results have some media hype to it, or sometimes manipulations involved, Subaru is partially owned by GM, and HD is owned by it too and others, a perfect way to jack up the sale of SF is to promote it in a non-advertised way.
    Which makes me even thinking that the recent tension between US and China over the plane crash is a result of US intelligent infiltration into chinese military to invoke such an incident without the knowledge of the chinese government so that the sale of arms (billions) to taiwan would proceed accordingly.
  • vin_weaselvin_weasel Member Posts: 237
    I've been lurking in this discussion for the last while and must say its the most interesting one around. However, Bill and Hung you both suffer from the same blindness towards other vehicles that you are accusing all of the Subaru owners of. It's fine to compare crash results, performance and even cost of repairs but your attitudes are awful. I'm not jealous that I don't own a Santa Fe, I actually don't own any SUV. I'm looking to purchase a vehicle in this class shortly and after hearing both of you talk about your SFs, I won't even test drive one. I'm sure your vehicles are very nice and I hope they last a long time, but no thanks.

    As for people questioning the reliability of Hyundai, given the past results, how can you blame them? The fact they offer such a large warranty is a good move on their part.
  • speterson1speterson1 Member Posts: 228
    Hey guys, I'm happy that you both enjoy your SF's so much, but I think the real reason that people give you a hard time in this forum is b/c you NEVER, EVER acknowledge the slightest possible negative about the Hyundai Santa Fe. I mean, come on, NO car is absolutely perfect! I'm a brand-new Forester owner and I love my car, but I'll be the first to admit that the back seat leg room is cramped for tall people, the cup holders are in a pretty idiotic place, and the stereo system is not nearly the quality I've heard in other vehicles. These were small drawbacks compared to other factors I valued more, like reliability, fuel economy, safety, value, and AWD. The main reason my wife and I didn't look at the Santa Fe seriously is b/c we didn't want to take a risk on a relatively new model from a relatively new auto maker.

    However, this forum is for making rational decisions between three different small SUV's (although I haven't read a peep about the Mazda Tribute in here for quite some time). People who come to this board want to hear honest advice from owners who know the ins and outs of these vehicles. I can speak from experience when I say that I valued the *negative* things people were willing to say about the vehicles they owned more than the positives, b/c that gives you something to watch out for and ask about when you hit the dealers.

    That's my 2 cents. All Town Hall readers - if you want to peruse another really entertaining topic (even better than this one), go check out the Pontiac Aztek board. Not much impartial discussion there either!

  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    That's why I have learned more stuff throughout this forum! If you really need to know the negative then you should read the Car itself Forum. The discussion within here are the comparison of the the 3 cars. We only point out what we know about the our vehicle. Other people point out about there vehicle here too. Did you see or read any owners posted bad stuff about there car here. You might want to look at each vehicle "Topic Consolidation".

    The discussion here are between the 3 cars! Notice we did not start out saying bad thing about other! Other people starting saying bad thing about us first. Especially this quote "Hyundai make crappy stuff", "Hyundai has a bad reputation on crash test too", and etc...We are trying to prove them wrong about this comment. Therefore you might want to read all of the messages within this board first before making a similar nonsense judgment like those people taking bad thing about Hyundai......

    As I have mentioned before:
    ***I am not sure if this is a (comedy-joke) (give-up) (jealous-word)!****
    ***I am not sure if I should say "thank you" for yielding the stage to the stand-up "Hung" & "Tung"!***
    I am not sure they are saying bad or good about us but mostly bad thing about us. Similar to people who wants to refuse our message. "We did not start this up"! READ ALL THE MESSAGES WITHIN THIS BOARD AND YOU WILL KNOW MORE!
  • guyfguyf Member Posts: 456
    I really think that there is no such thing as a "bad" car now. It's not like the late 70's anymore... (My wife had one of the early Chevrolet Citation...) You have to do a lot of searching to find a really bad car these days; they are all reliable. (well almost)

    I own a Santa Fe and I did look seriously at the Forester and the Tribute and others before making my final choice.

    No question about it, the Forester is a great vehicle, the enthousiasm of it's owners speak for itself. The Mazda looks real nice and has a great engine but had early problems with quality. Ford and Mazda are not stupid and they will fix those items. Also, I really did not care for the column mounted shifter, my CR-V had it and after 4 years I was ready to go back to a floor mounted one but I understand that others may like it that way.

    Every vehicle on the road today is a compromise; a compromise between cost, performance, fuel economy, comfort, handling, etc... The real nice thing is that we have a lot of choice in front of us!

    You want performance and you have an unlimited budget: The ML55 or the BMW with the 4.4 liters are good choices. You want maximum fuel economy, reliability, value and AWD; the CR-V and the Forester are good choices.

    All those vehicles have a different mix of handling, power, comfort etc.. so all you have to do is to go out, look at them and test them and choose the one that strikes the best balance for YOUR OWN TASTES; not the neighbour, not some guy on the internet but YOU. (You're the one paying anyway)

    I chose the Santa Fe since the compromise between comfort and handling was just where I wanted it, the performance was acceptable,(I would certainly like more low end torque from the V-6 and no Hung, I will NOT order a turbocharger kit or chip for the ECU) the level of equipment for the money was great, I love the Shiftronic on icy and snowy roads, and so on... I like the interior styling but I still have mixed feelings on the exterior; It looks great from some angles but no so great from others. But I dont care that much about the exterior; since I dont see much of it when I'm sitting inside driving it! I did not bought it to be seen in it! I was impressed also by the fact there is no wind noise at highway speed.

    All this talk about my car is better than yours and my bumpers are better than yours and so on is so childish... Cars are different; is'nt that great. We can go out and buy the one we prefer!

    In USSR, a few years ago, all they could choose from was between a black Lada or a dark grey one! I am sure they did not have much arguments between owners there in those days!

    I also do not really understand the "crusade" that Hung and Billtung are on to demonstrate to the world that the Santa Fe is the best vehicle on the face of the earth. Is it worth considering before buying? Definitively yes! Should you buy it? It depends what you are looking for and your own tastes.

    One last word to Hung; why don't you go out and drive the thing, you have only 3,000 miles on it! Go drive it, you'll like it!

  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    If I don't start prevent people saying bad thing about Hyundai here then no one will. I answer most of question and give more advice than anyone talking within this comparison message board. If I don't instert message here for a just about 1 day. There will be a bunch of bad thing people saying about the Hyundai-Santa Fe. When I mentioned turbo-charge and ECU because Hyundai does even make sport upgrade for SUV and most of the other manufacture does not provided it. It does not mean that I will install these parts in my car. It just simply to prove that the Santa Fe have more aftermarket parts/products than most of its competitors. That's why I have mentioned before "Wonderful Aftermarket Products Available". As well as I mentioned before, this is not a "Show-off" but simply the "FACT".

    Show you prove #388:
    I've been lurking in this discussion for the last while and must say its the most interesting one around. However, Bill and Hung you both suffer from the same blindness towards other vehicles that you are accusing all of the Subaru owners of. It's fine to compare crash results, performance and even cost of repairs but your attitudes are awful. I'm not jealous that I don't own a Santa Fe, I actually don't own any SUV. I'm looking to purchase a vehicle in this class shortly and after hearing both of you talk about your SFs, I won't even test drive one. I'm sure your vehicles are very nice and I hope they last a long time, but no thanks.

    **People tell me is this a good sense of humor or not?** People keep on saying bad thing about me/us!**
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    Finally, someone who "gets it". The crusade part was the clincher. There's something missing in folks like this, I mean, unless you are an employee or stock holder in the company why should you care if someone else buys the same car as you? To make yourself feel better that you made the right choice?

    Reality check, aisle 3 please....
  • mwsprodmwsprod Member Posts: 1
    Now that the new highway crash tests put the Santa Fe at number 1 (most crash worthy of small SUVs)it is slanting my opinion towards the Hyundai. I have owned Mazdas, Fords and Subarus (currently driving a Legacy wagon). My Sub is great, but its clearance is too low (scuff the front bumper constantly). Safety is very important to me (guess I'm getting old or I'd be buying the Impreza WRX!), and I bought the Sub because it got high marks, and I really need 4WD in New England. But lets face it, the crash tests are against "like" vehicles, and the road I commute on is full of SUVs and Trucks. I don't really care about the "high perch" for visibilty as much as where other vehicles will hit me in an accident. In the Sub and the Forester, I'm looking at bumpers at head level all day long. I don't like ANY of the Mazda products after they stuffed Ford drivetrains in them, sorry. I put 120K miles on my veihcles in 48 months, so they HAVE to last at least until they are paid off. I've had and heard too many Ford horror stories to trust their smaller engines (last Mazda was a Mazda built B2200 that ran for 170K miles before the frame rotted.. I haven't heard that mileage from newer Mazda trucks with Ford gizzards). So I guess I'm talking myself into a Hyundai. Only the memory of my friends Excel haunts me now....
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    1st! So glad to hear mwsprod will try to consider SF according to the safety list ranking.

    John say the statistics data not important to all the New 2001 mini SUV.

    In post#376 John said:
    "So, anyway, My SF is just as good as your SF if not better in crash test, but my model is in its third or fourth years, and my car will be more reliable than yours.
    All above statements are significant only in statistical sense." (In the past most of the senior/family Forester buyers are based on the "Good" test result, they don't care how powerful the engine was!)

    John also said "Your sf is just as goofy as mine and it looks like an buffed triburan,
    Anyway, yours is cheap and you get what you pay for, even if your 40mph crash test is good, it doesn't mean that other tests are up to par, what if you are rear ended (most likely to happen)?
    The damage will drain your wallet--there goes all your savings from buying a HD. "

    See John is also very die-hard Suby's fan, he does not want to facing the fact that SF (a completely new SUV made by Hyundai with no past history/record) really get a "Good" very important safety rating, and again try to GUESSING how bad the rear ended damage cost to SF, ((Honestly My SF already had a rear end about 10Km to a very strong metal Parking Lot Ticket machine with only a little bit yellow paints(from that machine)left in the left bumper corner, if u don't close up look nobody can tell, still in almost perfect shape.)) Even seriously damage, I don't think the damage will drain my wallet & savings according to the 5 mile rear crash test (about 1000+) It is not really likely to happen that bad because usually all good driver will back up very slowly & cautiously.

    Because the safety test result do very important to a new car/SUV. This is why our SF owners do not want to say anythings about the SF safety before the test result come out.

    Come on! Forester also has a "Good" safety rating, why so mad to one of the weaknest competitor(most subi's fan here agreed!) doing good in safety test result? Afraid losing some customers to Hyundai's? (If u think Hung & me is Hyundai's salesman or related parties, then I think all U guys are lived under the welfare of

    If all your Subi's fans is generous guys shall welcome & accept others good improvement, there is no spirit or moral just keep on intimitate & against SF's fans.

    For all the new visitors, do you know we used to have a lot of Hyundai's fans around in Edmunds, but because of those die-hard bad-guy/liar Subi's fans exists everywhere in Edmunds's Hyundai related forums, most leave to & never come back to post.

    This is really a shame for SUBARU's Fans.

    PS: If u guy want to know SF's problems please go to Santa Fe Owner Forum in Edmunds or
  • z7128z7128 Member Posts: 1
    I have reviewed and studied all of the new SUB's coming out, Honda, Subaru, Ford, Chewy, Mazda, Hyundai, etc. I am not a on the spot buyer. After driving all of them and kicking all the tires, we bought the Escape. I am anti-Ford. Have never had one and never intended to have one. But after feeling the engine and WAD system, I was sold. The ante be would have sold us but the wait to get one was terrible. (3 weeks to get one and selection was very limited)
    We got our XLS with WAD and all the things we needed for 22500 out the door with a 6 year refundable warranty. I didn't think it was too bad, especially since no one in the county had one that was WAD. So far the Radio fried after one week, but other than that only 1 creak that I have to find. (Rear hatch) Avg 19 MPG city with the 3.0 V6 Haven't had the opportunity for the highway yet. Only have 1800 mi on it. Engine is great! Trans is a little odd during shifts but I am extremely fussy. Interior lighting is bad but seating is great. Long term I may be glad of the 6 year warranty, hope not.....
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    Update: The Legendary ship-king Tung's owned OOCL before he died.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm certainly not "mad" that Hyundai did well in the IIHS crash test. I think it's great. I would hope noone here would wish harm to their counterparts, no matter what they drive.

    The result is good, as is Subaru's. Both have room for improvement, and can hopefully move up to "Best Picks" in their next generations.

    Remember, Forester will be redesigned within a year, while Hyundai will ride on this same platform for several more years.

    But you accuse us of saying the IIHS test is not important (which I did not say, I gave kudos to Hyundai several times now), and then turn around and say the IIHS bumper test is not valid or not important!

    It's the same agency, guys! No matter what the cost, the amount of damage makes for a poor result. Period.

    Subaru has held the Forester's price steady. Today is costs only $360 more than it did 4 model years ago. So the theory that a good crash test results would cause prices to rise like a stock market does not apply.

    Outrun a Celica? Come on, get real. Not if they were trying. The Santa Fe's weakest link is the powertrain. It's neither fast nor fuel efficient.

    Yes, power may be adequate for your needs, and if so that is fine. But Consumer Reports gives a better overall rating to the Forester, as does Car and Driver. In both cases, the Forester was quicker and used less gas.

    With gas prices predicted to possibly reach $3 per gallon this summer, fuel efficiency becomes more and more important.

  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    In response to your post#388:
    I think Hung already stated very clearly in his above post why we spent our time arguely with those "always bullying others" & "advertising Subaru car to be No.1" Subi's group guys in this forum.

    What we do here is just repeat what they did before. Check all the post from the beginning to now pls! What is your reasons saying that our attitudes are awful but not the Subi's group that u support?

    I've saw your preference u seem only interested in Forester, & pay no attention to other SUV, the reason to visit here just want to find some good news about Forester / see those bad Subi's guy bullying the others weaker auto makers! Am I guessing right?

    If u don't own a Forester, u have no right to "jealous" Hyundai!
    I only kidding to some Subi's fans that they might jealous Hyundai "Good" safety rating because only dominated by Forester before - that is one of the reasons they proud of their Forester & repeatedly advertised by Subaru.

    U saying, "I'm looking to purchase a vehicle in this class shortly and after hearing both of you talk about your SFs, I won't even test drive one. I'm sure your vehicles are very nice and I hope they last a long time, but no thanks."

    I think u are very silly, because of what we posted(Find out lots of +ve things about SF, but can not find out too many -ve things) make u angry to Hyundai's! Pls don't be so narrow-minded, we are not related to the Hyundai's Headquarter! Just happy SaFe owners so far!

    Why not u reacted the same way when u browsed through all those Subi's fans previous postings that appreciated to their "flawless" Forester. Be fair! If U are not BIAS to those Subi's guys, then you should also give up Forester!

    U said: "As for people questioning the reliability of Hyundai, given the past results, how can you blame them?"

    This is the topic me & lot of other SaFe owners had repeatedly answered so many so many times. But still have new visitor like u keep do not understand, but I don't blame u, this is the human nature wanted to have a straight "A" in one's whole life span - Wanting perfection - but let's fact the reality, are there any auto maker get straight "A" in the entire car history? Hyundai's had truely import some low quality cars (remember very low price too) to USA before & had created a little bit problem after the warranty period. But the fact is nobody will expect the low quality items that u buy from the 1 Dollar's shop(or Loonly store in Canada) will last long! We in Canada, don't have so many complaint about Excel, there are so many still running great in my everyday's delivery job.

    Last, Santa Fe (now we call it SaFe, because of its Safety rating) is a brand new SUV, never had any records. The price is not really cheap (who dare to say CDN$30,000 is a small amount of $$$). Hyundai's selling SaFe close to COST may be one of the reason we claim it is a good deal despite of the company past low-end product policy.

    Hyundai's now is not the past Hyundai's under so many political & war crisises before, they have changed so much from rely mainly on Japanese auto parts to now even TOYOTA buy some auto parts from them because some of their parts already meet/exceed Toyota required standard. Look at other Japanese/US car makers, because of the everyday increase labor cost(that is what our money come from to buy our luxuary car/SUV)& environmental clean up cost, they have no way but have to manufacture the parts out of their countries.

    I don't think the US government will give away the jobs opportunities to other countries W/O the above reasons. Look at all the Free-Trade Agreements u can see, the development countries is always the biggest winner in the game, they can make advantages of the natural & labour resources of the poor countries W/O caring those pollution & labour after retire cares.

    Just my CDN 2 cents
    - Bill :)
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    I agree with most of your points above.

    SaFe still have a lot of room to improve. As I repeated so many time in here, if not I paid so much attention to the SUV looking, I will definitely picking the Forester before! But unfortunately Subaru can not meet my need! But it is OK, since so many of your Fan's think Forester is looking very good to them, let forget my minority.

    But I will definitely consider Subaru AWD in the future if I need another AWD, not like the Vin Weasel above he give up considers something so easy!

    We & Hung never against any Subi's fans by wrote down their names, who? u should judging yourself, I think it make everybody here life a little bit easier.

    I am so lucky to live in this beautiful city in BC, we always have cheap gas, now all gas stations is in price war again. Drop from yesterday 62.9 Cents/Litre to 54.9 cents/Litre!
    Gas consumers love price war!

    For all our rich people, they don't care about the gas price, see the Escalade is coming out to the street to join the Ecursion & make all the mini SUV comparatively very gas saving.

    My SaFe milage is very good, may be the breakin period already end. With the US warranty, I really think it is a very good delivery SUV in this price range. My is 14,000Km now, with no problem, I don't mind my SaFe break down from the very beginning, because I have my GMC safari waiting to serve me any time, I don't use it anymore for small orders delivery - its suck much more gas than SaFe, If my Safari break down another even more Gas sucking engine is also ready the 5.9L Durango...I know in my case I'm quite lucky, It might not apply to everybody.

    Good morning! it is 7:37am.
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    Congratulation to your choice of the Escape which my wife & me almost SOLD before we test drive our SaFe.

    So sorry to hear that your Escape was perform not very good in the crash result, but it is OK, just driving more carefully, it is better to know it before the accident happen. As long as it meet your need & budget it is OK, today all vehicle is so many times safer than old vehicles, we are so lucky to have safety belts & air bag now.

    Additional safety features is never end....
    Consider the car drop into the river or sea....
    In the future, car may be able to inflat into a rubber boat when it drop into the deep water!

    How do u think?
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    My SaFe have no problem so far, since this is a brand new car! I can not even find a bad thing to talk about my car. After try to study and find more problem on the SaFe I comes out to find more good stuffs on the SaFe. Really! This is a no lie! If I do I would really like to share it. However, there "might be" a chance for the manufactures/dealers to ask for the 4 cylinders SaFe recall on the timing belt. The only minor thing I don't really like about the SaFe was the stereo-CD player that have no EQ. However, I have changed and upgraded to the Audio and Video stereo system.

    My SaFe break-in pretty fast than I thought. There is an advantage and disadvantage about break-in. It is just like a rubber! If you stretch it is many times then the rubber get loose and smoother and softer but when it gets overwhelm stretch then it cuts out. 'Really mean if the car break-in quickly will likely break-down quickly too. However, I really want my car to break down just right about before the warranty expire. That way I can get my car back into a brand new car again.
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