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Suzuki Grand Vitara vs Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape vs Saturn



  • rsharp83rsharp83 Member Posts: 82
    Speaking of Survivor. Poor Colby didn't realize it at the time but he worked his tail off to win an SUV. Too bad that he won the ugliest Production Auto on the Planet...yes poor Colby was awarded an Aztec!! Geez what genius thought up that prize!

    Maybe Colby should get a T-shirt that says:
    "I half starved myself to death in the outback and all I got was this ugly car"
  • guyfguyf Member Posts: 456
    The Aztec is selling so poorly they have to give them away in contests...
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    I already beat you guys to the lunacy of the Survivor giveaway tonychrys "Pontiac Aztek" Apr 26, 2001 6:27pm
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    What is the freedom of Speech? Here is North American!

    With all the efforts that Hung's have tried to share & help our Santa Fe group & all potential new compact SUV buyers, we should be highly appreciated this kind of Edmunds's member. Not by always discouraging Santa Fe's expert to post(It doesn't matter how much people write, if u don't like Hung, Bill, guyf1....etc ('cause we know more pros than cons in our SF!), than just skips our posts! Is that simple?).

    Hung's posting is very informative plus helpful, if u post him, he will get back to u almost promptly. Is that very nice?

    Hung's never criticized about other cars, he just told others what he know, in so many occasions, actually he gave credits to several SUV like Forester, Lexus.....etc!

    I believe most of the new visitors of this forum will like Hung's postings than any other members whose only write a few lines & not informative & sometimes bias.


    PS: Look like Hyundai's now is lived in WORD OF MOUTH of its car owners, no wonder why they have a very high satisfaction rating.

    Just go to santafeforum.com, u will find tons of happy SF/XG300 owners like Hung's very much.
  • curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    Nahh, I think everyone in here is sometimes bias, Hung is just a bit more bias then most.
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    If the manufacturer says that the product is great then it must be a fact!

    When's the last time anyone saw a manufacturer say in their literature "...we use average components so our product is slighty inferior to the competition, but it's good enough for most folks..." Gee, I wonder why not?

  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Most of my writing is answering people questions! I wrote things with more proves (facts). If you really concern then write thing that can show proves just like me with the pictures of some kind of links...
  • curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    I understand your passion for your Santa Fe, it is great, it is the right suv for you, but, you are very biased regarding it. Just look at our earlier discussion on mpg. The facts as you call them were saying that a Tribute is the Same as a your father-in-law's Rodeo. Fact, the Tribute has a 3L V6 while the Rodeo has a 3.2L V6. Fact, the Tribute weighs in at 3292 while the Rodeo is heavier at 3896 lbs. Fact, the Tribute is estimated at 18/24 mpg while the Rodeo is estimated at 17/21. However, you kept on stating that the Tribute would get the same gas mileage as your Father-in-law's Rodeo (by the way how many miles/years were on this Rodeo), while all I was doing was comparing EPA estimates across the board. Yes, Hung, you are rather biased when it comes to the Santa Fe.
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    what you have against Santa Fe? Korea make very good cars! It very good car, crash tests say so! I crash my car into side of building other day... car built so well building had to be condemned!
  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    Why don't you post some marketing literature and then tell us what gewgaws you put on it?

    I bet THAT would be different.

    Hey, lighten up everyone, it's Friiiiidaaay!!
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    The Rodeo I mentioned was the early model not the latest model...
    The fact is that! According to your statement is that you agree that your Tribute is worse on EPA compare to this topic forum....
    Look at the EPA comparasion on the city! Does that do anything different or much....

    "I have been statement on the city driving in San Francisco"! Please read carefully again before make your statement....
  • john284john284 Member Posts: 71
    01 S Gold Subaru Forester 5-Speed with tinted window coating all around containing:
    1 '00 Trek 1000 road bike($700);
    1 '99 Rollerblade Coyote($500);
    1 '00 Verducci Custom Speedskates($1200);
    1 '00 JD scooter($150)
    1 Child Seat($100)
    1 booster seat($100)
    1 Bell Helmet ($80) and spandex clothing($200);

    Now that is Sport Utility Vehicle.
  • curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    I don't care what city you are driving in. Yes, all EPA estimates will not be exact for every city you drive the car in. In a city like San Fransico. or "the bay area" there are many hills which will make ALL cars burn a little more gas and ALL cars will get less then EPA estimates. If you read my earlier posts you will see that this is what I have said all along. The Santa Fe gets an estimated 2 mpg highway and 1 mpg city better than the Tribute. In city driving, even in San Fransico., if you and the Santa Fe get 17mpg then my Tribute and me should get 16 mpg, NOT the same as an older model Rodeo. However, for that small difference (one mpg city), I simply stated that I would take the power and fun of the Tributes 200hp engine over that of the Santa Fe.
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    Let don't argue the EPA! We are assume willing to pay a little bit more for gas to enjoy our SUV!

    I think all manufacturers all using Premium Grade gasoline in their EPA. If we use cheap gas (87 Octane), then can not compare!
  • guyf1guyf1 Member Posts: 50
    When we go to our cabin in Northern Quebec here is what we carry on our GLS Santa Fe. (2 adults and 2 teenagers)

    1 Thule roof rack; (on which you will find)
    - 1 00 Gary Fisher Sugar 1 $5,000.00
    - 1 00 Trek 8000 WSD $1,600.00

    On a generic bike rack on the hitch:

    - 1 98 Cannondale F500 $1,100.00
    - 1 98 Giant Sedona $ 800.00
    (Prices in Canadian $$)

    Food for 3-4 days
    Cycling gear for 4 Helmets, shoes, Jerseys, etc..
    Fishing gear, etc...
    4 sleeping bags,
    Warm clothing for 4
    Refreshments, wine, good cheese,
    Insect repellent (lots of it needed in June)
    Etc, etc...

    The same payload was taxing my previous CR-V so much that I could barely make some of the steepest hills. It does take some planning to fit everything inside but it works.

    This is what all SUV's are build for; I certainly did not buy mine for boulevard posing.

    Enjoy life's everyone....

  • curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    1. That is MY POINT. This is a very small difference in EPA estimates between the Santa Fe and the Tribute, however, Hung wanted to make a big deal that the weaker Santa Fe engine got much better gas mileage in the "bay area." Therefore, this all started by my saying that for that small difference I would take the better, that is faster and more powerful, Tribute over the Santa Fe.

    2. No, my EPA estimates are not done by the manufacture, I believe they are done by the EPA. Additionally, Mazda recommends that you use 87 oct in the Tribute.

    3. Hey John and Guy, NICE BIKES. I still ride a Bridgestone MB-1 (love that Ritchie steel tubing).
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    I said is "probably" and you keep naging on the same subject. I did not say that is "exactly" or "must be", etc...

    I apologized my writing grammar was a little bit suck....but should I change the word "probably" to "maybe". Does these 2 words have any different.

    I never brought up the subject but most of my writing is part of discussion and answering people writing...

    If I do writing mistaken or word it wrong then I would have apologized. For the most I have written; most of it with proved such as pictures & links....

    I haven't seen much people apologized here yet! I see most of people try to attack my writing more here...Judge for yourself! I haven't seen much of the owners with the Tribute/Escape showing much proved about the link or pictures yet! I have seen some on the owner of Forester! "Thank to Aixteira for showing some of the links and pictures in the past about the Forester and for the most I believe I have done it many too! Good for sharing within this subject"!

    Thank you Bill very much for saying the word below:::::

    Hung's posting is very informative plus helpful, if u post him, he will get back to u almost promptly. Is that very nice?

    Hung's never criticized about other cars, he just told others what he know, in so many occasions, actually he gave credits to several SUV like Forester, Lexus.....etc!

    I believe most of the new visitors of this forum will like Hung's postings than any other members whose only write a few lines & not informative & sometimes bias.
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    ...or are others right now yelling at their computer monitors and banging their heads against the wall.

    "For the most I have written; most of it with proved such as pictures & links...."

    Hey, here's a link to a picture, it must be true!
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    it's not just you. (bang, bang, bang).

  • guyfguyf Member Posts: 456
    First time I laughed out loud in this forum. Keep it up!

    And thanks for the proof!

  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Please show a realistic links or pictures if you want to prove something to consumers that are going to read this topic.

    Here is a place to write and help Edmunds.com and consumers/researchers. Please do not mess up and destroy Edmunds.com/Townhall.....Do not write any more nonsense stuffs...

    We need information, prove, knowledge, and etc. about this topic 3 SUVs. Please be more realistic...
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    Yes, we need accurate information, can you give us some on the "Special Edition Limited Santa Fe" that is coming out this spring?

    Or how about that getting your wheels chromed will significantly reduce your MPG?

    Or that plus-sizing from a 16" wheel to a 17" wheel will significantly reduce MPG even though the overall tire diameter is the same?

    Or aftermarket side airbags? Where can I get some?

    I'm all ears...
  • dz6tdz6t Member Posts: 18
    I never test drive the Santa Fe, but I will not buy one because of its look. On the other hand, the Mazda looks much better as well as the Subaru.
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    Frank P.! U are not alone! See dz6t has your same taste as well as all current Tribute owners.

    To all Tribute supporter:
    Pls joins us in this forum, we miss u guys so much, pls speak out!

    Don't let the forum become SF & Forester discussions only......... :b
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    No. 1 -----> Aztek (The rear look like the garbage collector truck!)
    No. 2 -----> Xterra (The rear look very ugly to me!)
  • gsogymratgsogymrat Member Posts: 97
    Best Looking Small SUV= RAV4

    Worst Looking Small SUV= Jeep Wrangler
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    You still want to naging about the issued here again. You are all ears...
    These is "probably" the last I will answer your ears and please go away with the nonsense stuffs.

    Special Edition Limited Santa Fe" that is coming out this spring:
    I have already response to message before! There is no such thing as you call it SEL or SLE model: We are still talking about LX model with "special badge" = Gold Trim...manufacture/dealer add to make the car look more excited. Most other manufacture/dealers do the same too..

    Or how about that getting your wheels chromed will significantly reduce your MPG:
    I don't know where you get the point of adding chrome to reduce MPG but I can tell you some aftermarket places can chromed plated over your current rims. How much weight does it take to chrome plated over the existing rims. You can not tell any different with MPG. Not so much weight added...

    Or that plus-sizing from a 16" wheel to a 17" wheel will significantly reduce MPG even though the overall tire diameter is the same:
    The dealers would want to match and make the overall diameter as close as possible if you upgrade from 16" to 17" chrome wheel. However, "If" you like you don't have to get the tire you don't like: For example: My current tire is 225/70/16, dealer match 275/55/17, but I can use 255/55/17...Rims heavier but tires lighter...I hope you get the point...Otherwise you are confuse while most other most understand..

    Or aftermarket side airbags? Where can I get some:
    Side airbags was not "really" available for the Santa Fe in the US but there was fews test and have it and they are owned by dealer/manufacture workers. Somehow, Santa Fe side airbags was available as an options in most of other countries except North America and maybe some other small countries as well. There are CARPET AIRBAGS DEVELOPMENT NOW-A-DAY as well....**Please note**some dealers already knows about this.....
    If you want to learn and see the available of aftermarket side airbags and other safety features please click on the links below: **There are more company out there*** Go and search for it....
    Siemens Auto
    Delphi Auto
    "Please be alert that airbags are not alway can save u"! If you are under 5"feet, less than 120lbs, and have fake hips and/or knees! Airbags are not a good choice for you.....
  • guyfguyf Member Posts: 456
    Siemens and Delphi sell airbags to the OEM's, not on the Aftermarket. I went a little deeper in the Delphi site and pulled out their After-Market flyer. They show brake parts, alternators, batteries, etc. but no "aftermarket airbag".

    Relax Hung, where is your sense of humor?

    BTW Tonychrys, waxing your car is another great way to improve your mileage.

  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    Actually that's a good point. Thanks for factual information.

    Which reminds me, I can't for my Zaino order to come so that I can do the Spring ritual deatiling on my cars.
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    That's why I have said before contact the manufacture/dealers so that they can contact them.....However, they did it for a few Santa Fe in the market but only for manufacture/dealers' employee/workers in the US to drive it. Basically is for test...Not really ready for us...Did I mentioned this on my last writing? Please check it again...

    That's why I said: "Read carefully about my last message again"
    If you want to "LEARN" "LEARN" "LEARN" and see the available of aftermarket "Side Airbags" and "Other, Other, Other Safety Features"..

    I am not criticizing anyone and I am not mad at anyone but TONYCHRIS trying to mess up this topic board...

    I still answer his question....regard what!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Are you guys serious? Man, I know tastes are subjective, but the XTerra is a pretty cool looking truck. Uncomfortable, slow, and bought for the wrong reasons, but they nailed the whole SUV image.

    The Wrangler ugly and the RAV4 best looking? I do think the RAV4 is kind of cutesy, in a playful way, but Jeep created the image.

    I think we can all agree about the Aztec!

  • FrankMcFrankMc Member Posts: 228
    I take pride in saying "I don't care how a vehicle looks". I'll buy 'em ugly if they meet my needs, blah blah blah. When I saw the Aztec I decided that there is a car so ugly that I wouldn't own it.

  • kate5000kate5000 Member Posts: 1,271
    I thought I did not like old RAV4 looks... but I find it a lot more attractive, now that new RAV4 is out. It had that playful look, now it's just humpy.

    Forester is not a Mr SUV of America by looks, but I noticed that conservative styling usually holds better over the years. I do love XTerra and pre-98 Grand Cherokee the most though.

    Santa Fe's styling, in my subjective view, is a bit over the top. I was not impressed with driving dynamics when test-drove it. Underpowered for sure.

    Finally, Hung... please check out some grammar/spelling guides... please?
  • guyf1guyf1 Member Posts: 50
    I too like the look of the X-Terra and the New Rav-4. The X-Terra is too much of a truck for my need and taste and the Rav-4 is too small and overpriced (like all Toyota products) Which Santa-Fe did you test drove; 4 or 6 Cylinders?

  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Thank you very much for your advice on the Grammar but I have used MS Words and still very bad...

    Anyway, I know that the Santa Fe is under power compare to the Tribute but definitely not with the RAV4. I sold my 97 RAV4 for the Santa Fe. I have helped my friend/co-worker and bought the RAV4-L 2001 and I still am able to drive it now sometime.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The '97 RAV4 had less power, though. I think it was 120 or 128hp back then, now it's a bit more. The original ones were pretty slow (back then, I didn't buy one mainly for that reason).

  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Yes! The '97 Rav4 is weaker than the 2001 model. The car is easy to ride and view and easy parking too especially in San Francisco. I never really have problem about riding up-hill in San Francisco. I just move the A/T gear to "2" or sometime a super high hill to "L". The car does not really have any problem. However, the 2001 is a little faster and more power but still can not compare with the V6 Santa Fe...The 2001 Rav4 can easily rev high rpm quickly but using the VVTi engine which it is safe...
  • kate5000kate5000 Member Posts: 1,271
    I test drove V6 SF. Cannot even imagine how that thing would have performed with 4-banger.
    Speaking of new RAV4, I referred to styling only. It's still on my list of vehicles to test-drive one day.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think the 4-banger is mated to a 5 speed manual, so that may compensate a little.

    I'm sure a lot of people would like to see a V6/5 speed combo, yet none of the vehicles here offer it. Big opportunity, if you ask me.

  • bajabillbajabill Member Posts: 60
    I am wanting to downsize from an explorer, v8/awd. I drove the SF and was impressed. Not so much that I am willing to be a part of any popularity rise for the manufacturer however. Public opinion is very important if you have to sell the item. The Honda mini ute was very underpowered. Felt cheap, looked cheap, but it was not cheap. The Sub Forester is a station wagon, period. No attempt to hide this fact at all (once again that public opinion thing). I did not have the oportunity to try the ford, they were sold out at the dealer I went to.
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    To ateixeira! My Pewter SF finally in water!!!!


    Sorry I'm just kidding, it is not my SF. I download from somewhere in the cyberspace with no copyright... Compare with your Forester, what u think?
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Bill- It certainly looks better from the front than from the back but still not quite my cup of tea. I still say the Tribute is the most aesthetically pleasing of the 3. Too bad Ford makes it. That alone is enough to keep me from ever seriously considering buying one.

    I'm ambivalent about the new RAV4. It looks better than the older version but I find it a little too cutesy. I like the Xterra's looks but I couldn't put up with the harsh ride, poor mileage or lack of power.

    What does everyone think of the Liberty?

    And like Juice said, why is it so hard to buy a 6-cylinder 5-speed these days?

    -Frank P.
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255

    "U g L Y ?" For SF lovers, It is a fierceous beast!!!

    Driving SF with opened rear-gate window during hot days is fun. Can u open the Tribute Winstar's reargate window? I know even the Lexus RX300 can't!

  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    The RX300 (along with the MB ML 320) hatch window doesn't open for two reasons: Structural integrity and the owners don't like sniffing exhaust fumes while they drive, as opposed to Sanata Fe owners.
    That's why we have nice large sunroofs (feels like a convertible) and automatic climate control ;-)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Nice pic, Bill. The lower front one shows the angry pikachu pose the best!

    But no fair - that's hard-packed wet sand! I want to see yours, and in the really soft stuff! It's fun! :-)

    I like the way the new Liberty looks, and I think you can get a V6/5 speed when they arrive.

  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    What I would like to see is the glass go down into the door, like the old station wagons. They also opened in either tailgate (swing open) or drop down (I forgot the term) mode.

    Better yet, buy a JEEP, and you can take off the back, roof, sides, and doors!!!
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255

    1) When I take out my delivery flowers, it is so easy (just press the button from outside below the window) to pop open the window. In Vancouver, always raining, the window prevent my head to get wet while I take out something. Also u can open even on rainly days (w/o the interior get wet).

    2) The 4runner type automatic tailgate window is proof to be not too functional. a) Interior will get wet in rainly days. b) Can not open from outside. c)Electric! sound good! It causes more $$$ from you pocket. d)not so stylist when open....look like you have a broken window.

    3) So stylist! I don't need a spoiler when I open my tailgate! Yes, other cars tailgate will probably create a problem like inviting the exhaust gas into the compartment, but look carefully in this well designed SF, the tailgate is 45 degree upward, it won't trap the exhaust into the compartment, also I usually turn on my fans & open my door windows too when I drove my car during the hot days, I rather worry about what car I'm following(sometimes I followed some heavy dirty exhaust gas pollutor cars which made me have to close all windows & vent openings) than worring about my own exhaust gas come in from the back.

    4)Can carry somethig long like lumbers, pipe, or even a small tree.

    5)Proven by me, can be drive safely at below 100 khr in highway. (may because of the relative small tailgate window & strong supports & the angle of inclination!)

  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    I haven't found rainly days to be too bad with disappearing window. Just push the lever to put it up.
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    To open few times a day may sound easy....
    But for me, Jes... I open & close almost 100 times per day(thanks for the press-opened tailgate window), U know what I mean!
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