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Suzuki Grand Vitara vs Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape vs Saturn

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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You imply that to get better acceleration, you need to give up fuel economy entirely.

    Not with the Forester, though. You get both quicker acceleration and better efficiency, and that is exactly its appeal.

    Speeding tickets? You just said you drive 112.5 mph!

    -juice
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    guyf1guyf1 Member Posts: 50
    The real difference between ABS or non-ABS is the panic factor. Practice in a parking lot with plastic cones and you can have short braking distance and maintain control with a non-ABS vehicle. If you are really good, you may even do better than with some vehicles with ABS. As Ateixeira pointed out, some ABS systems are better tuned than others.

    It is when you are travelling at 50 MPH on a slippery road and suddenly somebody veer into your lane that ABS will make a difference. Your first reaction (split second) is to smash the brake pedal. Without ABS you may be already spinning out out of control on the road. It is then too late for threshold braking.

    ABS will maintain the stability of the vehicle and allow you to take the appropriate evasive manoeuver.
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    sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    Take out the back seat, take out all the dodads, and you will see both go up noticeably.

    Heck, I saw a car mag once where they took the seats out, took off the hood and doors and trunk lid, put on tall narrow tires, took off bumpers, etc. from a 70's Cadillac, and it got AWESOME mileage.

    Now Hung, imagine if your car did not have that extra 500 pounds of add-on dodads?
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm not sure I agree with the "if you are really good" part of that statement.

    Look at racing - in F1 some times you'll see a professional driver lock up one wheel coming in to a turn too hot, and these are the best drivers in the world!

    Each tire has a different amount of weight on it, as well as different levels of traction with the ground, but you only have one pedal! It is simply impossible for even the very best driver in the world to maximize braking power on all four tires.

    What you can do is reach the treshold of the one single tire with the least grip. Beyond that point at least one tire will skid.

    ABS can do better - it can reach the individual limit for each of your 4 tires.

    -juice
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    sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    I don't think I could control four brake pedals!

    :-)
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    hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    I am not sure what you guy try to point out about? My Santa Fe have 4 power disc brake, ABS, and Traction Control, plus the 4/AWD system. Does the Tribute have all of these? Does the Forester have all of these?

    Yes! My car do have extra weight but I still be able to drive up the tallest hill in San Francisco very easy. Just simply use a low gear similar to the RAV4 I would put it on "2" or "L". I was just wondering why most of these Automatic car have the "2" and "L" gear but people don't seem to understand and know how to use it. With the Santa Fe I just use 2nd gear and go up the high hill as "Piece of Cake". I will shoot the picture of the Twin Peak in San Francisco and the view of the city pretty soon and post in my website. Remember one thing about my Santa Fe low gear ride and I adjust the RPM simply by press the gas pedal control. Most likely I never even need to gas pedal that much. I just use as I was driving very normal in the balance street.

    Does anyone have the Automatic Transmission that show the "2", "1", and "L"? What do you think and why the manufacture built for it? I hope you understand what I mean.
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
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    billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    There are more.....
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    drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    Automatic transmissions will automatically (as the name implies) downshift as required. The primary reasons why the other gear indents are there are so that you can hold a gear for less gear hunting when going uphill (or when towing), or for engine braking when going downhill.

    With better designed auto transmissions, there is no need to shift into a lower gear manually for going uphill since it will select the proper gear as needed instead of guessing and shifting back and forth between 3rd and 4th, for example.

    Good luck,

    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

    P.S. Frank, I hope you're wearing a helmet ;-)
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    armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    LOL

    Ross
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    hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Hi Bill:
    Yes! I have seen most of your pictures, they look very nice, and I always have said before I really like the way you shoot the pictures and posted in this board to make it more excited.

    I was planning to do the same as you but since you are good at it then I would really appreciate, you did it. I lived in San Francisco and San Francisco is all mountain and hill. I have driven my Santa Fe almost everywhere in San Francisco on the weekend already. Most of the time driving with 4-5 people and imagine I still drive all the hill/mountain as "Piece of Cake". As you know my car have heavy accessories plus the weight of people still drive normal. Since my Santa Fe is driving as "piece of cake" then your Santa Fe must have been much easier than mind because of the weight I have on my car.

    Thank Drew for the Information:
    Yes! If anyone who drive the Santa Fe on "D" (Automatic) then it will select the gear automatic for you depend on the speed. That is why I want to point out that I used "2nd" gear on my Santa Fe to go up hill and still drive very normal. This is base on the city drive! While I was in freeway the car most likely in 4th gear and there was an Automatic Overdrive built in. If you gas pedal more then it will jump to 3rd gear or much quick and easy to use then apply the SHIFTRONIC manual to 3rd gear and then bring it back to 4th gear. This is just a fast way to by-pass the Overdrive. It is very easy to use and the Santa Fe is well overpowered for me. I remembered when I drove my old rav4 on freeway I would turn off the Overdrive (bring to 3rd gear) to pass some cars and then press back the Overdrive. My co-workers were amaze when I teach them how to use the Overdrive button....
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    tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    Pass the aspirin, I'm right behind you... (ouch!)
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    sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    clonk clonk clonk!

    (head against monitor)
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    sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    What is that little tail coming out of the back of your Santa Fe?
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    ddloydddloyd Member Posts: 4
    Here are a couple of photos showing the Forester and the Santa Fe parked next to each other.


    http://home.kc.rr.com/ddloyd/sf.html

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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    We're just discussing the benefits of ABS in general, which is standard on the Subie but not on either of the others here.

    As far as the traction control goes, didn't we agree that the Santa Fe only manages one axle with the traction control? Well, the Forester uses a limited slip differential, which does the same job, so to answer your question, yes, it has the same basic features.

    The photos show the Sante Fe is bigger than the Forester on the outside, and that the Rodeo is bigger than the SF. Does bigger mean better? If so you're saying the Rodeo is superior.

    Despite the size, no Rodeo, Sante Fe, or Tribute for that matter, can match my Forester's payload of 1040 pounds.

    Guess they are light-weights. ;-)

    -juice
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    hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    About the Weight:
    I am not sure about the pound but my Santa Fe have plenty of accessories which can weight a lots plus there was one time I drove my Santa Fe with 7 people. I am not sure about the pound but I am 160lbs; my father is 190lbs; my mother is 140lbs; my sister is 110lbs; my brother is 125lbs; my youngest brother is 80lbs; my nephew is 80lbs. My brother and my nephew both of them sit side way in the rear trunk. I still drive my Santa Fe very normal which I have mentioned about this story before.

    The Pictures:
    The pictures are not to compare with which car it is bigger or smaller but it to tell people which car is look nicer.

    Options on Santa Fe and Subie Forester:
    So what you are saying that the
    Santa Fe 4/AWD+ABS+TCS = Subie Forester 4/AWD+ABS+LSD?
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Hung- The "max payload" amount is set by the manufacturer. Its purpose is to let owners know how much weight they can safely carry without adversely affecting the handling/performance of the vehicle. Loading your vehicle beyond this limit increases the chances of something bad happening. An excellent example being the Ford Explorer with 5 adults that blew a tire and rolled on a southern CA freeway. Also, I'm sure you're aware that carrying anyone in the cargo area is inherently unsafe (and illegal in some states). Were you to be in a serious accident, there's an excellent chance that the unrestrained rear occupants would be ejected and suffer serious or life-ending injuries.

    -Frank P.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Actually, the Santa Fe V6 can't quite match the Forester's boxer 4, so no way could the SF 4 cylinder = the Soob boxer.

    Look at power and weight (using figures available from Edmunds):

    Car HP Weight lbs/horse
    4WD V6 Tribute 200 3455 17.3
    Forester 165 3195 19.4
    4WD V6 SF 181 3720 20.6
    2WD I4 SF 149 3574 24.0
    2WD I4 Escape 127 3065 24.1
    4WD I4 Escape 127 3238 25.5

    Plus the Forester offers a 5 speed manual and returns the best mileage.

    As you can see, the Hyundai and Ford 4 bangers are not even close to Subaru's boxer.

    Hyundai's problem is weight - the SF is quite heavy (at least that translated to Good crash test results). Plus the 4 cylinder doesn't even come with 4WD, and it's still heavy. Clearly the V6 is the wise choice.

    Ford's problem is that 4 banger belongs in a light car, like the Focus, not an SUV. I'm sure the V6 is outselling the I4 by far.

    -juice
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    guyf1guyf1 Member Posts: 50
    I agree with you Juice. 0 to 60 mph times would confirm that the V6 Triscape is quickest, followed by the Forester and the SF. The SF is certainly on the heavy side of the scale but as you stated it helped the crash test result and also add to that "solid" feel of the SF.

    I suspect that Hyundai had a few RX300 around when they designed the SF. (Good target to aim at!) Taking aside the luxury equipment in the RX these 2 are quite close in design and every time I drive the SF, I'm getting this "Toyota" feeling. Toyota's also are usually slightly over average in weight.

    Guy
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    tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    You crack me up Guy. Dream on.

    RX300: 220hp engine mated to one of the smoothest electronic transmissions designed. True, permanent 4WD with a 50/50 split.

    So please explain to us how "these 2 are quite close in design". I guess they both have 4 wheels.
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    guyf1guyf1 Member Posts: 50
    Of course the RX is more powerfull and has more equipment, no question about that. You must get something for the thousands of $$$ more you paid for it. It also weigh more however. This puts it's power to weight ratio at 17.84, between the Triscape and the Forester.

    I was talking about size and construction. The SF base platform is from the Sonata, the RX is derived from the Camry. Both crossover vehicles.

    SF has shiftronic and true, permanent 4WD with a 60/40 split. It must makes senses to have the torque split match the weight distribution, this thing was handling like a dream last winter, much better than the Camry AWD turbo I once owned.

    Speaking of cracking up Tonychrys, I am still waiting on your theory of how a "glued on" hatch windows add to the structural integrity of the RX!

    Maybe it is just a cost cutting measure after all.
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    billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    So proud of our PORT MOODY police force.
    image
    image
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Looks like a tubbed-out early 70's vette. That's a drag strip car, though, probably not street legal.

    Talk about power to weight ratios, though!

    -juice
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    billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    That mean those car can accelerated faster might not be so welcome in our city streetS!

    Why choose a car just accelerates a little bit faster & has low weight to hp ratio BUT suffer non-attractive look & less overall comfortability & options?

    Sorry to pour baskets of COLD water into u guy's heads for saying belows!

    FORGET ABOUT THE SO-WHAT "WEIGHT-TO-HP" RAITO!

    WE MAINLY DRIVE ON CITY NOT RACE TRACK FOR SCIENTIFIC DATA, COME ON! DRIVING IS BELIEVING!!!!! STILL THINK LOOKS, COMFORTABILITY, SAFETY & OVERALL VALUE ARE THE MAJOR FACTORS!

    For the general compact SUV buyers, especially ladies, they usually don't care/understand what's the technical terms that u guys mention, pls don't make this topics too complicated. All we want is .........
    CUSTOMER SATISFACTION!
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    guyf1guyf1 Member Posts: 50
    There are many posts I do not read in this forum because they are totally nonsense.

    Not to offend anybody, I will keep to myself which ones...

    Guy
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    hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    This is what I think about most consumers are looking at when buying a new car.
    1. The look of the car
    2. Safety feature of the car
    3. Car performance
    4. Feature options available
    5. **Importantly** the price of the car
    6. Warranty available

    The Santa Fe is "probably" well on top of all of these categories. Do you think all of the other 6 and 8 cylinders SUV are faster than the Tribute and the Forester? Yes! The Santa Fe might not be faster than the Tribute and the Forester but I can surely tell you that the ride is quiet and smoother that well match compare to the luxury car. We don't really need to go faster but we need a nice comfortable ride! Look at the amount of people driving the CRV and RAV4. Nearly all of them are satisfy with the car. Do you think the CRV and RAV4 is faster than the Santa Fe? I guess I don't have to bring out some example of other 6 cylinders and 8 cylinders SUV.
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    sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    You are closely in your statement about what feature people likes in new car.

    You forget to put PRICE!!! That what Hyundai especial famous for!

    #2 safety is not so much a concern of mine, as all cars today are more safely than ever before.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Given the way you drive, you probably chose the right car for you.

    But I'm different, I drive for the fun of it, and want a nimble and agile vehicle that is reasonably quick without hitting me with a big gas bill.

    Do those seats fold flat? It doesn't look like it - looks like it's angled downward. Does that get in the way of you bigger plants?

    Hung - you're wrong, actually. The Forester can outrun several V6 equipped competitors, including the aforementioned SF, XTerra, and Grand Vitara. It's also more fun to drive than any of those, and that's what matters most to me!

    -juice
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    tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    Also is faster than several v-8 competitors, but doesn't have the towing capacity. I know hung and tung love their Santa Fe's, but they are far from class leading in anything but price and possibly safety. Styling is totally subjective and not measurable except in each individuals eyes, but in most measures of performance the Santa Fe does not measure up to its competition.
    I keep reading how they can climb the hills in San Francisco, but I lived there myself and never saw cars unable to climb them. I even drove there with a Honda 600 and an old VW beetle and had no problem climbing the hills.
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    hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Sasquatch:
    I already mentioned about the price on number #5.

    Aiteira:
    nimble and agile vehicle and gas bill.
    You are pointing out the matter to you but not for other. There are so many car that have nimble and agile plus gas bill even better than the Forester. When it comes to SUV people want the high ride and safety when hit accident. People don't even realized that the Forester is an SUV and might thought is was a wagon.

    Do those seats fold flat!
    I used to have the RAV4 that fold to the front and leave everything flat but that is not a matter here. The Santa Fe is "WIDER" and still be able to carry more. I was wondering which 'folding' cargo space is more compare to these 3 vehicles?

    Wrong Statement:
    I don't see I made anything wrong about my statement. I have mentioned that the Forester and Tribute are faster than the Santa Fe. That is NOT the issued here. I am saying the performance of the Santa Fe is smoother and have a nice quiet ride which most people depend on more not really the speed. That is luxury car is mean (smooth and quiet).

    Tincup47:
    Who is the people that start out by saying that the Santa Fe can NOT climb hill and plus WEAK? We are trying to prove to people that the car can climb hill and they are definitely not weak. The RAV and CRV is even weaker but people still like it performance and not really complaint about weak.

    My Suggestion:
    Subaru is a good quality manufacture but they need to built a nice SUV and drop in the market before they can keep up with other manufacture. Otherwise, the Forester is going to stay way-below the list of consumer buyers.
    Look at Toyota/Lexus:
    The manufacture keep on making more SUVs and still be able to sell more and more. RAV4, 4Runner, Highlander, RX300, Landcruiser=LX470, and Sequoia. Why they can still sell more? Biggest reason; They are all nice...
    Look at Hyundai:
    With the first SUV in the market and already winning awards. Still there are more to come the Terracan, etc...
    My Future Prediction:
    Hyundai/Kia Sportage+more = Toyota/Lexus RAV4
    Hyundai/Kia Santa Fe = Toyota/Lexus Highlander+RX300
    Hyundai/Kia Terracan+Jalloper = Toyota/Lexus Landcruiser+LX470
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    billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    All those Korean's businesses are competing for survival by beating same business by cheaper price while offering the same quality(Maybe it is sort of Korean culture).

    Look at their Computers, Audio & Video machines, auto, Korean Airline tickets,..... etc. Go to compare by yourself, if u spend the same $$$ (For example, the Lexus LX470 asks for US$ 68K, if Hyundai's sell something at USD 68K, then it must be better than the LX470 or else they won't do it.) tell me what else brand name can offer a equivalent product with better quality? Can Honda offering a CND$14K small car better than Hyundai's fully loaded Accents?

    Unfortunately, the Korean can not offer us anything, but if they really made something in that price range, then they really made the best deal in that price.

    I don't even pay attention to Hyundai before is because the Korean don't offer any autos fall in my price range, Let say 10 years ago I was already looking for new cars priced above CDN$20K, but unfortunately Hyundai don't have any car sell above CND$20K at that time. (When I buy something I always 1st consider my own budget, if I have $20K, then I want to spent all $20K, not go to buy something else because of cheaper!)

    I was lucky when I was going to spend CND$30K for a compact SUV in last Nov, co-incidently Hyundai offering my price range SUV - the Santa Fe, which made me enjoying some extra values!
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    billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    Hi Ateixeira:
    Why U want a totally flat platform?

    I love the slightly inclination (about 10-20 degree), just because it serves like a big pillow to me when I went camping with my 2 sons (we only need to carry sleeping bags) few weeks ago, we slept quite well at night inside the SF without carrying the pillows! You never know actually it is an "advance feature"! :)
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    curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    Once they get on a roll there is no rhyme or reason to their posts. Here it goes:

    1. Bill - back seats that don't go completely flat are not an "advance feature." You may love the slight inclination, but the average SUV buyer wants all the flat cargo space they can get. Seat that do not fold flat most likely are just not well thought out in regards to design and space availability. And as for pillows, my camping pillow compresses down to about the size of a rolled up pair of socks (this is for storage) and takes up very little room in packing.

    2. Hung - In your response to juice about nimble and agile handling, well that comes under your own criteria for what buyers are looking for (#3 car performance). Yes, there are CARS that handle better and have better gas mileage then the Forester, but there are few to no SUV that handle better and have better gas mileage. As you were pointing out what YOU thought were what most people look for in an SUV, Juice was providing what HE considered in buying an SUV. To be frank with you, I agree more with Juice. As love to drive, high on my list in selecting my new SUV was the over all driving experience. That is why I went for the Tribute. Now before you respond by saying that the Santa Fe is the best driving experience for you and what you want in an SUV, let me first say, that is great. However, not everyone is like you Hung, Juice wanted a SUV that handled better then the Santa Fe, and I want a SUV that also out performed/handled the Santa Fe. And yes, these two SUV do that. If they don't for you, that is fine and dandy, however, every car review expert I have read, wether it was here at Edmunds or motor trend or road and track or what have you has stated that the Forester is the closest SUV to car like handling while the Tribute even has sports car caricteristics.

    Furthermore, I am not just talking about top end speed. All these vehicles can go over any legal speed limit. When we talk hp or speed, we also mean get-up and go, you know 0-60 type power. Yes, sometimes it is nice to be able to pull away from the rest of the pack when you need to. The Tribute is at the top of this class for doing this.
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Fer crying out loud, I gotta quit reading this topic. Otherwise, the bruises on my head are never gonna heal. (bang-ouch, bang-ouch, bang-ouch!)

    -Frank P.
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    sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    I think by hill climbing, they mean the ones in those photos (top left) which are in the mountains, not "hilly" steets. At least that is what I would mean. I would assume ALL cars could climb any hill on a paved road.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No Hung, I do not want a high ride. I want a low center of gravity for good handling. Very tall seating positions make me feel nausea with the way I drive! 8*}

    I don't care how people categorize the Forester. It provides the utility I need in terms of payload (1040 lbs) and the sturdy roof rack (150 lbs), all standard. Hence more utility.

    Forester is also the vehicle used by the Subaru World Rally Team for their Reconaissance. In other words, they pre-run all their rallies in a Forester to mark all the turns. This includes the tough rally in Kenya, for example.

    Also, I've seen more than one Forester run a rally cross event. Hence the sport part of the equation.

    I can see why some people need full ladder frames, low ranges, and live axles in their traditional SUVs, but SF doesn't have any of those. The SF has a LOT more in common with the Forester than it does with any traditional SUV, except it's not really sporty and doesn't offer as much payload utility (despite the size and weight).

    So, who do I think should consider a Sante Fe? The value-conscious former Accent or Elantra owner who wants to move up in size, who just wants to get from point A to point B safely and leisurely, point B usually being the soccer field or Mall.

    Who should not? Clearly, the enthusiast who drive aggressively and favors sporty handling and quick acceleration. Rock hoppers and fuel misers, too.

    Bill: you and Hung seem to disagree (that has to be a first)? Is the rear cargo floor flat or not? Just curious.

    Korea surely is capable of making an excellent product. Look at how popular Kumho tires are, for example.

    -juice
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    bajabillbajabill Member Posts: 60
    does the escape have a single floor plane below the entire cargo area when the seats are folded. My explorer is pretty good.
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    speterson1speterson1 Member Posts: 228
    Perhaps a helmet for while you're reading this topic, Frank? Although then you run the risk of breaking your monitor.... :)

    Steve
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    rleethalrleethal Member Posts: 11
    Hi all,
    I have been catching up on this thread and I just have to say Hung and Bill, you two are great advocates for the Santa Fe, but really, you lose more credibility with every post. I was of the opinion that this thread was to compare the strengths and weaknesses of the SF, Forester and Tribute/Escape. The FACT is the Tribute has a more powerful engine, but instead of accepting that fact you try to make it a nonissue, nobody needs that much power. Instead of accepting the FACT that the Forester has better handling and MPG, you say there are other CARS that are nimbler and have better MPG when we are comparing SUVs. If you guys could stick to facts and understand you are not here to convert EVERYONE into Hyundai owners you would be better off. Sing its praises, but understand it is NOT perfect and open your eyes and see the strengths of other SUVs.

    I just got a SF GLS and am very satisfied with it. It came standard with everything I wanted, a very good price, great warrenty and I for one love its style. I did not consider the Tribute/Escape because of quality concerns although it is a fine looking car. I cannot say that I like the look of the Forester, but that is just my opinion.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think Frank may have actually stopped! :-)

    -juice
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    armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    a voice of reason at last. Thank you for your post. Much like Frank P., my head and monitor were in great danger of cracking. I have a Forester and don't like the looks of the Santa Fe, but it is a matter of taste. I, for one, do not consider the Forester to be an SUV, but again that's really not relevant. It has all of the utility and off pavement capacity I need (I do a lot of flyfishing and camping), the gas mileage is acceptable and the handling is excellent both around town where I do most of my driving and on logging roads. I am extremely satisfied, and in the end that's all that matters.

    Ross
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    bajabillbajabill Member Posts: 60
    You are neglecting the true purpose of these boards, to throw darts, argue, think my opinion is better than yours, think you should think like me, and many others.

    enjoy your decision, and if you for some reason you determine the car you chose is not for you, dont worry, in a few years there will be others to choose from.
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    rleethalrleethal Member Posts: 11
    Ross
    Thanks and I hope you enjoy your Sub like I will my SF :)

    bajabill
    Power and prestige? And I thought I was here for useful information :)
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    guyf1guyf1 Member Posts: 50
    Agree with both of you 100%. I own a SF GLS for the same reasons as you (and passed on the Tribute/Escape and the Forester for the same reasons.)

    The Forester is as good a vehicle as the SF, with different strong points that's all so they appeal to different peoples. I also think that Mazda will quickly fix their initial quality problems and they will soon (maybe already) have a strong contender in this class.

    Outside of the usual highway and city driving, I use my SF on logging roads to go fishing and mountain biking and I am too very satisfied with my purchase.

    Guy
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    drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    I think he was just trying to be facetious ;-). Yes, the main purpose of Town Hall is for information, and for owners to get together to discuss their vehicles. However, civil discourse is and will always be permitted, so long as we focus on the vehicles at hand, and not on the participants.

    Carry on,

    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Oh my gosh... all that head banging has started me hallucinating... I swear I'm starting to hear voices... voices of reason... that can't be right... not in this topic ;-)

    -Frank P.
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    hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    1. So, who do I think should consider a Sante Fe? The value-conscious former Accent or Elantra owner who wants to move up in size, who just wants to get from point A to point B safely and leisurely, point B usually being the soccer field or Mall.
    ****Read our Santa Fe forum and see if people are really moving from point A to B! Please***

    2. When we talk hp or speed, we also mean get-up and go, you know 0-60 type power. Yes, sometimes it is nice to be able to pull away from the rest of the pack when you need to. The Tribute is at the top of this class for doing this.
    ***Isn't every new car now-a-day are much faster already? Do we need more faster?***

    3. But the average SUV buyer wants all the flat cargo space they can get. Seat that do not fold flat most likely are just not well thought out in regards to design and space availability. Bill: you and Hung seem to disagree (that has to be a first)? Is the rear cargo floor flat or not? Just curious.
    ***Look at how many SUV are there is the market that don't go flat. You think the manufacture can not do it flat? Rodeo, Pathfinder, etc..***

    4. I think by hill climbing, they mean the ones in those photos (top left) which are in the mountains, not "hilly" steets. At least that is what I would mean. I would assume ALL cars could climb any hill on a paved road.
    ***So you are saying that the Santa Fe can not climb mountain but you are saying that the Tribute can climb mountain? Please be more realistic****

    5. No Hung, I do not want a high ride. I want a low center of gravity for good handling. Very tall seating positions make me feel nausea with the way I drive! Who should not? Clearly, the enthusiast who drive aggressively and favors sporty handling and quick acceleration. Rock hoppers and fuel misers, too.
    ***I guess you don't really understand what is an SUV with the Sedan ride yet? I can drive my Santa Fe almost just like my Celica. Turning fast okay and the matter of fact last time the Xterra try to beat me in 'cornering' I was leaving him way behind because his car tires was skidding while I just go as I use too. I haven't even hear a skid tires in my Santa Fe yet! I can surely tell you that you haven't drive sporty style like me yet! I have been in racing before. Driving maximum speed on Celica a lot of times. I go from Fairfield to Sacramento less than 20 minutes and you go calculate if you have done this with your driving style yet!!!!***Remember I only drive like this when I am by myself and I am kind of cool down now****

    ***Whoop to long; I have to stopped now***
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