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Suzuki Grand Vitara vs Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape vs Saturn

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    tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    You were doing well until the 3 second prediction on my head. I've actually slowed down in my old age, it's now 4 seconds. But my published spec of 3 seconds is better than my actual performance. Hmm... sounds familar. ;-)
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    curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    Motor Trend had the Tribute at 8.7 with the standing quarter mile, sec/mph 16.4/83.8 . . . not to shaby. Then again how fun would the M55 be, oh well, my wife will never let me know.
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    bajabillbajabill Member Posts: 60
    as soon as I left the lot on my test drive I wanted to get out of that car. It was sickeningly slow, if that is a word. I thought the ford engine was pretty smooth for a 6cyl. My main resistance to the SF is the lack of dealer competition and the impact on final price. My secondary resistance is manufacturer history, at least with ford, I know what to expect and that means dont buy the first model year, beyond that they are fine. I currently own my 3rd ford and have no complaints.

    Actually, I have owned GMC, Olds, Nissan, VW, Ford, Chevy, Cadillac and the worst of the bunch is ...... VW.

    How many reports will back that statement up? past performance in no indication of future returns, I know, but I am reluctant to be the Hyundai test bed. We will see.
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    curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    You may have slowed down in your old age, yet, the hits are starting to take there toll, aren't they?

    If not what are we all doing in a place like this?

    Oh, and by the way, I use my desk, saves me a ton of cash in monitors.
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    tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    ... an intelligent question. What am I doing here? Have you seen the stuff on TV lately? This place is far more entertaining. Very easy to get a quick laugh in between working on projects on the computer.

    The crash helmet has helped tremendously, my thanks to the person who suggested it.
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    tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    They'll be comparing the SF to Range Rover or Landcruiser next.
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    curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    Really, I do appreciate the info you provide on the Freelander, I can't wait to see one up close. Thanks tincup.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, here is a photo of the damage to my Forester.

    It's kind of close up. The bummer is that the very minor damage to the quarter panel still means they have to repaint the whole thing to get it to look perfect. That tiny ding costs more than half the total estimate.

    Still, given the forces involved, I was lucky. Even all the lights still work.

    The bumper cover was torn, as can be seen in the bottom of the photo, and the taillight assembly was cracked. It's $150 for the complete taillight assembly and $300 for the bumper cover.

    But I've already found a wholesaler offering the bumper cover for $237.57 delivered, and I'm sure they'll offer the taillight assembly at a similar discount.

    Shoudl I trust a non-dealer body shop to put them on and fix the quarter panel, though?

    -juice
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    tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    I would go with a body shop with a good rep., dealer body shops generally are no better overall than independents. A lot of dealers do not even operate bodyshops as a poorly managed one is a money losing operation, and given the pressure of the insurance industry on the body repair industry it doesn't even have to be poorly managed to be a money loser.
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    hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    What are the "more options" the Santa Fe has that the others do not?
    I paid for my "Top of the Line model Santa Fe" at $24980 'out the door' with the 8.25% tax and Bay Area concern and it has 4/AWD, ABS, Traction Control, Chrome Steel Plate, etc.
    Can I see if someone can buy the "Top of line model RX300, Forester, and Tribute" below $25k out the door at 8.25% tax? Please show me some prove.

    Here are Hyundai warranty:
    10-year/100,000 limited POWERTRAIN protection
    5-year/60,000-mile limited Bumper-To-Bumper coverage
    5-years/unlimited-mile Roadside Assistance
    5-year/100,000-mile limited Anti-Perforation Warranty
    8-year/80,000 limited Federal Emissions Defect and Performance warranty
    12-month/12,000-mile limited Replacement Parts and Accessory
    7-year/70,000-mile limited California Emission Control system Warranty.

    Can I see if the Mazda, Lexus, and the Subaru can match these type of warranty?
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    billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    I think only under the hand of "don't use/don't know how to use Shiftronic" test-drive person! What a waste (if they don't use it in the aceleration test, because already come with stardard in automatic version)! Fast accelerate? What for? It may crashs your car into the wall or the car in front of you much easier! How long does Triscape can lead the race? Not very long, as it only come with 3 years/60,000km warranty & you have to pay all the problems arise.


    Please do not take the following pictures too serious, I'm not saying Triscape can not run at 100m/hr. But instead to show SF can (even taking pics at ease)! Enjoys!
    Santa Fe passing Triscapes & say goodbye
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    guyf1guyf1 Member Posts: 50
    banging my head on a lap-top can hurt after all.

    Guy
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    bajabillbajabill Member Posts: 60
    That will cool my desire and save me a lot of money.

    peace
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    curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    Oh, what the heck.

    Hung, what are the "more options" - on your list you only have traction control and steel chrome plate(I am not sure what steel chrome plate is ). I can get everything else on my Tribute. Additionally I can get a moon roof and a 6 CD in dash changer. So, if you are saying that there are more options available with the Santa Fe, I think you are wrong. However, if you are saying that you may be able to get more bang for your buck with a Santa Fe, well, that might be true.
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    vin_weaselvin_weasel Member Posts: 237
    Bill, my '87 VW Fox would go faster than that. I'd say it's hard to find a vehicle these days that can't do at least 160 km/h. I did find the font they used for the spedometer interesting. I'm not sure if I like it or not, though.
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    billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    OH MY GOD!

    Pls borrow another pair of helmets, just in case!
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    billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    In this past 5 months, I have remember heard lot of people here described SF is a very slow, "Heavy tank" SUV, don't you still remember? You might not pay too much attention because you just too crazy about your Jeep like our SF's fans! I felt my durango traveled at that speed is more noisy & less stable than SF!

    Believe it or not, the stability of SF when traveling in highspeed will impressed lot of people. U don't have to agree.... :)
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    tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    is like a couple of those "tuners" that you see riding around in those Honda Civics low to the ground, chrome wheels, ground effects and graphics applied to the hatchback window.

    Throw in some interior "blu-lighting" and a glowing-light after-market stereo and they think they are the Einsteins of the automotive industry.
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    tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    is used to describe Items available from the Factory, for example ABS,Traction Control, different engines, etc. Items installed at the dealer or later are more properly called accessories. A lot of confusion on this board could be solved by using the proper terms.Bill and Hung, you have added a lot of accessories to your vehicles, not a lot of options.
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    billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    Bang!.....Bang!....Bang!

    Need another helmet?

    Sorry! even "blu-lighting" option is better than someone paid thousands extra's to get just an "Expensive Chrome-plate Logo"!
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    bajabillbajabill Member Posts: 60
    I am glad that most of the populus that drive the vehicles I prefer have done away with the fad of accessorizing. Just a few in the truck world still however.

    I sold a 300zx, great condition, low miles, to a younger male who fit the profile of the accessorizers and complained to my wife when they drove away. I said I hope I dont see my car driving around with reversed dish wheels, chrome mud flaps protruding a foot to the side and the neon lights below the ground effect molding.
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    curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    I could not stand those neon blue lights under the car either, however now I know there real purpose . . .


    http://www.theonion.com/onion3413/neonlight.html


    (Just in case anyone else is wondering, the onion is not a real newspaper, this is what we like to call comic relief, you know, humor).

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    tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    ...those "options" you speak of are not available here in the USA officially, and you fail to leave out all the problems your buddy is having integrating them into his US model. I'm sure he'll eventually get it because he is persistent

    Yea, we all want to exchange emails back-and-forth with Korea to get our "options" working.

    Now do you understand why people tend to ignore you?
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    tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    "I'm not the only desirable guy around here with an acid-washed denim jacket, bi-level hairstyle, 8- to 15-year-old American sports car and summer job at the feed mill. For chicks to see that I'm special, I've got to have the little extras."

    I was laughing so hard my forehead stop hurting...
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    billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    LOL! you little clown... Thks for the "genius" entitlement! I just feel I'm a little bit smarter than u do.

    Do u feel happy? U jumps from your Lexus forum to here try to BS this forum as I heard from so many members here (They all ignore you now!) since the 1st day I visited this forum, before I do not believe the existence of such a bad guy, now not only me realise, I think most visitors also know who is the trouble maker. How much you have contributed to this board???? Nothing but BS & talk rock! W/O any proofs to anything u said! I doubted u really own your RX300? Since u don't seem having any credits!

    From now on U have one more enemy will ignore you forever!

    Just give up this little clown.....
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    bajabillbajabill Member Posts: 60
    But I discovered that simple elegance speaks louder. I like to drive a car that is a wolf in sheeps clothing.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, let's prove you can get a Forester with all the gizmos your heart desires for under $24,980 out the door. I'll enjoy the challenge!

    Start with the Forester S currently selling at Fitzgerald, right here: http://www.fitzmall.com.

    They have the new 2002 Forester S with automatic for $23,378. It has AWD, 4-channel 4-sensor ABS, 4 wheel disc brakes, rear LSD (instead of traction control), 16" alloy wheels, in-dash 6 CD changer, heated seats, heated windshield, and heated mirrors.

    The too am not sure what you mean by the steel plate, but if you mean skid plate the Subie offers it as an accessory for about $75.

    Tax in MD is 5%, so that adds up to $24,625.65, under the limit. You asked me to prove it and I did.

    Why not the S Premium? Simple - the Hyundai doesn't have the things you're adding by going to a Premium model.

    OK, so the Hyundai has a longer warranty, but the Subaru has an in-dash 6 CD changer, H-rated tires, and heated everything. It's also quicker, more fuel efficient, and carries a bigger payload.

    So the Subaru represents a good value as well, if not better.

    -juice
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    tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    "Just talk rock? w/o any proofs!"

    Ok, please dispute my last statement about the so-called "options" from Korea not being standard here in the USA. I dare you.
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    curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    Only if they would turbo the engine and if I could get my wife to like the looks of it . . . good deal anyway
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    billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    I completely agree to you, no question for the all-wheel-drive system in this price range Subaru is the best, but base on my personal taste of the car style, I prefer SF, but If someday Subaru offers some nice looking vehicle to me, I sure sell my SF & go for it!

    I know it is very hard to please everybody(like me, prefered the SUV at least the high of RX300), but hope most of the new SUV buyers don't like me, then more people will choose Forester.
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    vin_weaselvin_weasel Member Posts: 237
    If you would have read my previous posts I hope it would have become evident I'm not crazy about any vehicle in particular. I'm more of a fan of finding something that fits what you want at a certain time. The Jeep fits me now, any of these others would (and did) get a good consideration if I had more money and a family.

    As for all the accessories such as backlighting stuff and extra chrome, its a matter of taste and you can't use them to boost the value of your vehicle. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Just ask my finacee :). I'm still not sure what she sees.
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    curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    could you imagine, 240 hp in one of these utes. And I thought 200 hp was fun.
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    sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    "I think only under the hand of "don't use/don't know how to use Shiftronic" test-drive person! What a waste (if they don't use it in the aceleration test, because already come with stardard in automatic version)! Fast accelerate? What for? It may crashs your car into the wall or the car in front of you much easier! How long does Triscape can lead the race? Not very long, as it only come with 3 years/60,000km warranty & you have to pay all the problems arise.

    Please do not take the following pictures too serious, I'm not saying Triscape can not run at 100m/hr. But instead to show SF can (even taking pics at ease)! Enjoys!
    Santa Fe passing Triscapes & say goodbye"

    What does all this mean? Are you trying to say it is fast? Or that fast does not matter, but it's fast anyhow? Or what?

    bangouchbangouchbangouch!
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    vin_weaselvin_weasel Member Posts: 237
    I think what he's trying to say is if you see a guy driving down the road at 100mph taking pictures of his dash, don't worry, it's just Bill.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    um, fun's fun, but let's try to stay on topic and show a modicum of respect for our fellow members, please.

    Steve
    Host
    Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
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    hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    What kind of comparison is this! I paid almost $1000 over the MSRP price already and I still get my Top of line Model Santa Fe 'out the door' under $25k and I do have leather seats, heated seats, defroster mirror, defroster rear windows, skid plate/engine splash guard. **Remember this! I bought it very expensive plus my tax is 8.25% not 5%**. Please be more realistic when compare the car. If I bought my car at or below MSRP price then my car would have drop below $24k but I am showing the realistic price that I bought. Please do not mentioned H-rated tires because those are not that good tires compare to XYZ rates. Almost every SUV in the market used H-rated tires when buying out from the manufacture. I believe every Santa Fe comes with the 16" Alloy Wheel regardless of low or high model. The Alloy wheel comes with the silver polish finished as well.

    I was wondering if the "S" class Not the Premium you refered to have the 'LEATHER SEATED' and ABS+Traction Control?

    To Sasquatch!
    The issued of the Santa Fe is passing the Tribute is not base on your meaning. It is just simply saying that every car can go faster than other car! It is all depend on the driver that are willing to drive faster or not. Those are not the meaning of the car is faster or slower. "Depend on the Driver".
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    billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    Hung's spoke my answer!

    That is why I hated to hear people says this car can accelerate 0-100km/hr at 5 sec / 6 sec / 7 sec..... then it is a great car, then go for it!
    If u buy a car based on only faster acceleration then u are going to kill yourself sooner or later, because u are just going to buy a car to race at city road. No cop will tell you it is safe to accelerate 0-100km/hr in city road/highway!

    So give me a publicly acceptable reason why we need a very fast acceleration SUV in our daily life?
    Pls don't mention Sport racing which needs fast acceleration because drivers want to win money!

    Be more realistic, if Hyundai want to speed up SF, they can simply tie a rocket tube fills up with liquid nitrogen & ignites to the SF, then SF will be the fastest, & every auto makers can do it, do u want that?

    There are so many factors to determine which is the best compact SUV for each buyer, pls do not always just mentioned the acceleration test which is not a major factor in making purchase decision!
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    guyfguyf Member Posts: 456
    Did you ever test drove the Santa Fe??
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    tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    Absolutley! As I have tried to objectively post in the past, it was one of the first SUVs my wife and I test drove back in November(?) when we started shopping for a new SUV, our '97 Pathfinder was coming off lease. We practically researched and test drove every SUV out there, including the Triscape.

    Having lived with the PF for years, we got to know what an under-powered SUV was. Of course Nissan corrected this with the 2001 and the 240hp engine. The new PF definitely made our short list, plus the reliability of the PFs are proven.

    Don't get me wrong, my wife and I were impressed with the Santa Fe in terms of value, for around $25k it's a good buy. But my wife wanted more safety and I wanted more power and luxury, so we decided to look at more upscale vehicles.

    I have no problem with the vehicle itself, you can figure out the rest ;-)
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    tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    Juice was showing the realistic price you can buy the Forester for. I bought my wife's 01 S Forester with leather and everything else for $24,500. Your tax rate is irrelevant to the price of the vehicle. The simple fact is you can buy a Subaru for Invoice or slightly above, where Santa Fe's are going for MSRP or above. Until the Santa Fe is selling near invoice, there will be no price advantage.
    You are right H rated are not as good V rated or Z rated(there are no X or Y ratings) but they are better than tires that have no letter rating. What does your hyundai come with?
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    guyf1guyf1 Member Posts: 50
    You bought your RX for the right reasons. Hope you enjoy it. I test drove one for a full week-end as well as the MDX, the Pathfinder, the Volvo XC and the Outback.

    It seems the price gap is higher in Canada. The SF GLS with leather comes out at $30K. An RX with Leaher, Auto A-C and sunroof (all in one package) goes out for $52K. Pathfinder LE is $44K as well as the Outback with the H6. MDX is $48K The XC is over $50K.

    I went for the SF as I do use it to go on forest roads, quite narrow in some places with branches scratching the paint sometimes. I just could not get comfortable with the idea of taking a 50 grand vehicle in such places.

    At first I never tought I would buy a Hyundai. I test drove 3 different ones to make sure but I could not find anything I could not live with. The ride, handling and general refinement are much better than what I expected from Hyundai; and also better than the CR-V.

    For the rest, I fully agree with you.

    Guy
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    guyf1guyf1 Member Posts: 50
    The SF tires are S rated which; if my memory serves me well; are good for "sustained" speed over 100 MPH. That seems good enough for the application. BTW, those Long Trail T/A's are pretty good tires. Nice ride and good traction.

    Nobody really need V-rated tires on a SUV. Z rated tires would be pretty silly for our use.

    Guy
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Acceleration does not depend on the driver alone, the engine is clearly a huge factor. Especially with an automatic.

    Guy: S rated tires don't resist heat as well as H rated tires do, no matter what the speed.

    Fitz has S Premiums with Leather for $23,901, and in that case you're getting that huge moonroof. Add $75 for the skid plate, and 8.25% tax and it'll cost you $25,954.

    Now you'd have to add a huge moonroof and an in-dash 6 CD changer, which you could not do without spending more money than the Forester would cost.

    I know you'll go back to the warranty again, which can be an advantage. However, Hyundai lawyers created a loophole big enough to drive a Sante Fe through - the 10 years only applies to the original owner! That's right, sell it and that warranty goes bye-bye.

    Think about that - how many Hyundai owners will actually hold on to them for 10 full years? 10%? 20% maybe?

    Also, people that have repeated problems, and actually use the warranty, are actually more likely to get rid of them, anyone will agree.

    So how likely is it that Hyundai will actually have to honor claims 10 years from now?

    Also, the fact that the warranty is not transferable hurts you in two ways - in increases the sale price to begin with ($1000 over MSRP?), then hurts resale when you're selling it to someone who will not have that warranty.

    -juice
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    tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    Wow! That's a huge price difference between the SF and the other vehicles you mentioned. The only thing I can think of to cause this is the money exchange rate. Down here in the states, there's only about $10k difference between the SF and some of the vehicles you mentioned.

    Oh, if I had to drive forest roads and worry about scratching my paint and I would never spend over $30k USD for a vehicle. Heck, if I was doing that kind of driving on a constant basis I would get a Jeep Wrangler (around $14K USD) just for that purpose and then buy something else for road use.

    Have you looked at the 3M Scotchcal film for possible paint protection? Here's one of the places that sells it: www.xpel.com
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    kate5000kate5000 Member Posts: 1,271
    note that 10-year warranty is for powetrain only, the more important B2B warranty is 5/60K . I believe VW has 10/120K warranty on powertrain, but everybody complaines how short their B2B is (2/24). Isuzu has 10/120K powertrain warranty and 3/50K B2B, I think. Mazda has 3/50 B2B.

    If you check actual warranty details for Hyundai, there is a lot of fine print and exceptions. For example, paint is warrantied only 3/36, battery 3 yrs, and wear items covered only for 1 year.
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    bajabillbajabill Member Posts: 60
    XLT/2wd/v6/leather/moonroof/tinted glass

    invoice, 21800, xplan 21600 + tax/license
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    kate5000kate5000 Member Posts: 1,271
    I got my Forester S premium for under 24K (23,896 to be precise). It's loaded with stufff as standard and I also added a bunch of nifty options. I don't account for sales tax, as it's irrelevant for vehicle pricing. If you start adding sales tax, then add tag and title expenditure, and don't forget to adjust for APR if financing.
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    bajabillbajabill Member Posts: 60
    With all the hype about that darn thing, you must be missing something. Hey, thats why most people are attracted to the maker in the first place.

    If you are correct, then even after the good test drive I had, the SF lost many points with me.
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    kate5000kate5000 Member Posts: 1,271
    you can check for yourself...
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    guyf1guyf1 Member Posts: 50
    Yes Juice, H rated tire handle the heat better than the S. With the Explorer saga in the US it can be a major factor in the hottest climates but is not a problem up here.

    Tony, my other car is a Volvo S70 GLT (with the low pressure turbo) (BTW I previously had a T5, what a rocket!!!) The SF I need for both road and dirt road use. For this dual purpose use, I prefer the SF to the Jeep but others may see it differently.

    I use the 3M on the nose of both cars as highway maintenance use a lot of "abrasive" (gravel) on the roads in the winter time to save on the salt. It is very commonly used here to prevent the nose of the car from being sandblasted. I do not think it would be practical to cover the side of the SF with 3M.
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