V4s would cost more to produce than in-line 4s, yet they don't have the inherent balance of a boxer. You need two sets of cams, two headers, more plumbing in the intake, etc.
I think those are for cruiser bikes, which mimic the sounds of a Harley, and would not be appropriate in a car.
BMW uses boxers on its bikes, for smoothness and balance. They had some at the Baltimore Auto Show, check out some photos we took here. I loved how their sales staff and brochures went on and on about how superior the boxer layout was!
BMW uses boxers on their 2 Cyl bikes. The 4 Cyl use's in-line 4's laying on it's side.
The Honda Gold-Wing in 4 and 6 cylinders are boxers also.
The Honda V-4 was used on a sport bike a few years ago.
Honda also won the 250cc world championship in 1967 with a in-line 6 cylinders with 4 valve per cylinder! 20,000 rpm redline. They probably needed jeweller tools to work on that engine.
BMW also has a mono-cylinder - the Dakar dual sport bike. Sweet!
One of these days I'll start riding bikes again.
Oops, how do I bring this back on-topic? Hmm, one day I'll Escape in one and drive through a Forest on my way to Santa Fe. Then I'll pay Tribute to the Boxer engine Gods.
Honda beat BMW to the dual opposed cylinder, and BMW was pretty ticked, I guess.
V4 was on the Interceptor.
It is a compact, torquey, powerful package.
It has the advantage over a boxer in that it can put intake stuff between the Vee, and is not as "spread out". The boxer is basically just a 180 degree Vee engine. I would think the V4 would be great with a little more displacement for autos and trucks, I am still wondering why it never took off.
I know Subaru used to have a lot of trouble with these, especially with exhaust. I used to have an 80's wagon (Legacy?) which was expensive to keep up.
Porsche also uses boxer engines in the 911. VW in the old bug,bus,thing, etc., if I am not mistaken.
Me too I'm an ex-motorcyclist waiting for the right moment to get on 2 wheels again. My last bike was a Yamaha XT 550 dual purpose. My current picks would be a BMW (hard to decide between a sport-touring or the GS-1150) or the Triumph Tiger 900.
actually, I've found it quite interesting, however, I have a question back on topic.
What kind of gas is recommended in each of these vehicles? For example, Mazda recommends that you use only 87 octane in the Tribute. What about the Santa Fe, Forester, CR-V and Rav4? Just wondering.
ps. Hey Chuck, not that it is in the same group, but what octane will be recommended for the Freelander?
The wagon from the 80's was later named the Loyale. Not much in common with the later cars, which moved away from 4WD dual range to AWD.
Coincidentally, I had a Yamaha XT125.
All these guys run on 87 octane, which is great with current gas prices.
The Forester has a 16 gallon tank, so range is really good with my 25.1mpg average. A friend is averaging 27mpg, and another guy in the Forester forum hit 32.7mpg on one tank, which is amazing.
Currey- I'm curious as to why "Mazda recommends that you use only 87 octane in the Tribute."? A higher octane may be just a waste of money but it won't hurt anything.
Can't remember off hand if it was something I was told (not that I would trust anything a car salesman said) or something I read. If I get the chance I will look through my paper work tonight to see if anything is stated in there.
Use recommended Octanes. There is no more power in regular over Premium, rather it is the entry of expensive ingredients to delay the spark.
Regular Octane is designed to fire at Top Dead Center. Higher octanes fire before TDC.
I had a car that ran better on premium, I tuned it and decarbonized the fuel injectors with a 3 step process at Jiffy Lube. It now runs great on regular.
I called Quacker State recently and got some interesting information.
1. QS now mkes an appropriate 5W-20 oil, but to meet manufacturer specifications they are using a synthetic blend. This also complies with the new SL standard that replaces the SJ oil standard.
2. The same engines a few years ago had 10W-30 recommended. There is definitely a gas mileage issue with Ford that may come at the cost of engine wear. But the 5W-30, and 10W30, will not meet this newer specification until July.
3. Personal opinion, with these engines I would use Synthetic. It holds the seal better anyway, and is more durable.
For you RAV4 and Santa Fe lovers check out July's issue of Motor Trend, they have a comparo of the two utes with an interesting outcome.
The RAV4 was faster - yes, 2 seconds faster to 60 mph with the i4 - and handled better while the Santa Fe was found to be more refined, smooth and quiet...
"QS now makes an appropriate 5W-20 oil, but to meet manufacturer specifications they are using a synthetic blend."
Until I read that there was only 1 5w-20 synthetic I knew of, Amsoil. I'm not so sure about using synthetic though, I used to use it in my Saturn and I didn't see and beneficial yields. Not to mention it's $4.50/bottle compared to $1.75/bottle for dino...
I did my first oil change on my Trib last week - 5000 miles - with dino 5w-20 and the Trib is running well, the gas mileage is even going up.
Hyundai Santa Fe sales extremely jump too high! April Sales = 3258 May Sales = 4872 ***Total different 1614***
Hyundai received the highest record sales in history -May Sales Set New All-Time Record-!
-This is to proved about my statement before that the people are waiting for the Santa Fe and certain percentage of these people received their Santa Fe last month (May)-
You don't have to reply again this message. This is just a sharing information. If you don't mind then I would like to see the May sales releases for the Tribute and the Forester? Thank you.
Some posts (3) that say they have some paint peel of of the plastic molding...which has either been replaced or sanded and repainted.
Hey tonychrys if you really want to read frightening stories about owners with multiple and serious problems with their autos try the Tribute / Escape problems discussion. Over 800 messages and still going strong with gas fumes, non starting, recalls, etc.
Really tony your message made it sound as if all the paint on the sante Fe was falling to the ground... 3 posts.
That folks are tired of hearing that the Santa Fe can do no wrong. The fact is that as the vehicle reaches critical mass, i.e., enough of them get on the road, more and more problems will surface. Is this bad? No, it's just part of the normal car production/sales cycle.
But... Santa Fe owners cried foul when folks criticized the quality. The argument was that one can't use past Hyundai overall (across all product lines) quality data since the the SF was new and wouldn't be included in that data. But guess what? The 2001 JD Power Initial Quality Survey is out now and it does in fact breakout the Santa Fe on it's own... and it didn't do well in the rankings. I won't quote the actual ranking because I don't have the report in front of me right now. Maybe someone else who has access to it will help out.
Hung- Personally, I don't want to see the Forester's sales volume grow significantly because I don't want to own a mass-market-appeal vehicle. A general rule is that a vehicle that appeals to the masses is unlikely to excel in any one area. Regardless, I'm satisfied with the Forester's niche as a sporty, performance-oriented, all-weather vehicle. Also, one of the (many) reasons that I bought a Forester was because it was a relatively uncommon sight in this area (Atlanta). Meanwhile, CRVs (and now Triscapes) are a dime a dozen. I suppose I just like knowing that I'm driving something that's a little different.
Tonychrys: I hope that they should put the Lexus RX300 problem and others SUV problem so that people can bring up the problem subject within this Edmunds.com/Townhall too. I bet you everyone SUV should have problem; depend much or less.
p0926: Personally, I don't want to see the Forester's sales volume grow.... **If the car don't really sales then how could the manufacture stay in business. Every manufacture want to sell more but can they compete with other manufacture is a question mark***
For example, many "premium" manufacturers deliberately limit their production and/or import to the States, to keep their cars exclusive and in demand. What Frank meant was that he likes a smaller number of Foresters on the road. I like to have a not-so-mass-market vehicle too.
where can I see that?? maybe you could show us the link..
the 2001 result is pretty much the same as the 2000. they rank the CRV, Cherokee and Rav 4 as the top 3 entry SUV. all three I can't find anything there that would indicate that Hyundai or the SantaFe is ranked at the bottom as you seem to imply...
Hung, How does he know if the manufacture want do it or not? I see commercial about the Forester very often on TV
the success of sales is determined not so much by how many particular units are sold but rather how many cars are unsold (often measured in days of supply on dealers lot).
Seeing an ad does not always mean that this vehicle is in unlimited production/supply. It does not mean that the manufacturer desperately wants to move it. For instance, WRX is advertised often, yet there will be only 10,000/year imported to the States, and most are pre-sold or on waiting lists. Does it mean WRX is less successful is sales than Pontiac Grand Ma sold at 10x or 100x higher numbers? If you ask me, I think Subaru is wasting money advertising Foresters or WRX, they are flying off the dealers lots as it is.
Unfortunately, it seems the exact rankings of the JD Power Initial Quality Survey are not public knowledge, you have to buy the report. But I know someone on Townhall did publish the results a few weeks ago. I'll post it as soon as I find it...
kate5000: 10,000/year imported to states... Is this on every states or only on certain states? Can buyer buy from other state? Where is this figure come from? Is this only base on Subaru or other manufacture as well?
Even if they don't sell the "fancy" models, it puts the Subaru name in your mind. I have seen several WRX's in MA now. (unless they have a look alike, which might also be a part of the "trick advertising").
JDPower Automotive rating this is for consumers who wants to know how a vehicle ranks on JDPowers criteria. I did a comparison between all four SUVs in this board and I got this figures: -------------------------------- SF --- Tri --- Esc --- Sub --- Mechanical Quality-------------- 2 --- 2 --- 2 --- 3 Feature and Accessory Quality--- 2 --- 2 --- 2 --- 2 Body and Interior Accessory----- 3 --- 2 --- 2 --- 3 Performance--------------------- 3 --- 3 --- 3 --- 3 Creature Comforts--------------- 3 --- 3 --- 3 --- 2 Style--------------------------- 4 --- 3 --- 4 --- 3 Total---------------------------17 --- 15 --- 16 --- 16
interstingly, the CRV got 21 pts, Rav4 got 18 and the Cherokee got 16(?). I referred to it here as points, but in the JDPowers site, each point represent a certain percentage, to anyone who will check it out, you can see it there.
but before you jump into any conclusions about me, I don't think the SF is the perfect car for everyone. I'm not on a mission to trumpet the SF as the be all and end all of SUV as you put it. I agree that the best car is the one that suits one's own preferences. I just want other buyers and other forum participant to realize and accept that Hyundai has done their share in making the SF a good vehicle overall...
"I just want other buyers and other forum participant to realize and accept that Hyundai has done their share in making the SF a good vehicle overall..."
Yes, and I have read several non-Sante Fe owners acknowledging that already, so I think this point has been beaten to death. Now whether someone considers it a good value, or to their liking is personal preference, of course. Let's move on please!
Maybe so, but posters still continue to make references and attempt to imply inferiority to the Sante Fe. The current quality record for first year of production would show the Triscape has had far more difficuilty than the Sante Fe. But, I see far more posts here questioning the SF's quality than that of the triscape.
Beaten to death or not, it seems some people cannot accept that Hyundai has produced a quality auto on par with anything in its class.
Most of the people in this forum have been trying to get the Santa Fe zealots to realize their car is not the ultimate SUV. Hyundai has made seemingly great strides in their vehicles, but the JD Power Apeal, Initial quality and the other awards are all based on initial ownership, not on long term reliability. I hope that the Santa Fe is a good vehicle long term, but having worked at Hyundai dealerships, I'm afraid I will remain skeptical. Personally, I would rather have a few initial recalls than major problems down the road that may involve cash outlay or extended periods without my car. I am not trying to imply this will happen with the Santa Fe, but it is a possibility with any brand of car made.
While that may or may not be true, it is their decisions and hence we must agree to disagree and move on. Be happy with what you have, and I'm sure you are.
All the best, Drew Host Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Subaru & Ford should stop promoting their powerful horsepowers & how fast their acceleration (8.5 sec????) through advertising. Be more educated like the Hyundai's drivers (Safty first, speed last!)
Don't kill yourself because u drive a powerful Subaru or fast Triscape (like what happen in the video link) before it is too late! BTW it's just a piece of metal & why paid so much & finally kill yourself just for performance?
Remember u drive in city not race track! Be smarter & more realistic! Also money smart!
Comments
V4s would cost more to produce than in-line 4s, yet they don't have the inherent balance of a boxer. You need two sets of cams, two headers, more plumbing in the intake, etc.
I think those are for cruiser bikes, which mimic the sounds of a Harley, and would not be appropriate in a car.
BMW uses boxers on its bikes, for smoothness and balance. They had some at the Baltimore Auto Show, check out some photos we took here. I loved how their sales staff and brochures went on and on about how superior the boxer layout was!
Hilarious - BMW cars use in-line 6s!
-juice
BMW uses boxers on their 2 Cyl bikes. The 4 Cyl use's in-line 4's laying on it's side.
The Honda Gold-Wing in 4 and 6 cylinders are boxers also.
The Honda V-4 was used on a sport bike a few years ago.
Honda also won the 250cc world championship in 1967 with a in-line 6 cylinders with 4 valve per cylinder! 20,000 rpm redline. They probably needed jeweller tools to work on that engine.
Guy
One of these days I'll start riding bikes again.
Oops, how do I bring this back on-topic? Hmm, one day I'll Escape in one and drive through a Forest on my way to Santa Fe. Then I'll pay Tribute to the Boxer engine Gods.
-juice
V4 was on the Interceptor.
It is a compact, torquey, powerful package.
It has the advantage over a boxer in that it can put intake stuff between the Vee, and is not as "spread out". The boxer is basically just a 180 degree Vee engine. I would think the V4 would be great with a little more displacement for autos and trucks, I am still wondering why it never took off.
I know Subaru used to have a lot of trouble with these, especially with exhaust. I used to have an 80's wagon (Legacy?) which was expensive to keep up.
Porsche also uses boxer engines in the 911. VW in the old bug,bus,thing, etc., if I am not mistaken.
Http://www.jeepenthusiast.com/ShelbyDodge/Wraith/Wraith_2-2_TwinTurbo_Motor.jpg
Why can't we have these things in our cars now, this thing came out in 1986 for the Dodge Turbo Interceptor.
400 hp from a 2.2ltr 4cyl.
Odie
Guy
Guy
:-)
(not that spinning the wheels sometimes isn't fun!)
:-)
:-)
What kind of gas is recommended in each of these vehicles? For example, Mazda recommends that you use only 87 octane in the Tribute. What about the Santa Fe, Forester, CR-V and Rav4? Just wondering.
ps.
Hey Chuck, not that it is in the same group, but what octane will be recommended for the Freelander?
Coincidentally, I had a Yamaha XT125.
All these guys run on 87 octane, which is great with current gas prices.
The Forester has a 16 gallon tank, so range is really good with my 25.1mpg average. A friend is averaging 27mpg, and another guy in the Forester forum hit 32.7mpg on one tank, which is amazing.
-juice
-Frank P.
" finally really put my new Tacoma to the test this past weekend up at camp. I have a 2.7L in line 4 cyl."
2.7 is a decent size 4 banger.
-Frank P.
Juice, my wife was riding a XT 200 when I had the 550. Mine a 1981, hers a 1982.
Tacoma 2.7l
150 hp @ 4800
177 lbs/foot @ 4000
Forester 2.5l
165 hp @ 5600
166 lbs/foot @ 4000
Regular Octane is designed to fire at Top Dead Center. Higher octanes fire before TDC.
I had a car that ran better on premium, I tuned it and decarbonized the fuel injectors with a 3 step process at Jiffy Lube. It now runs great on regular.
1. QS now mkes an appropriate 5W-20 oil, but to meet manufacturer specifications they are using a synthetic blend. This also complies with the new SL standard that replaces the SJ oil standard.
2. The same engines a few years ago had 10W-30 recommended. There is definitely a gas mileage issue with Ford that may come at the cost of engine wear. But the 5W-30, and 10W30, will not meet this newer specification until July.
3. Personal opinion, with these engines I would use Synthetic. It holds the seal better anyway, and is more durable.
The RAV4 was faster - yes, 2 seconds faster to 60 mph with the i4 - and handled better while the Santa Fe was found to be more refined, smooth and quiet...
Take a look.
Until I read that there was only 1 5w-20 synthetic I knew of, Amsoil. I'm not so sure about using synthetic though, I used to use it in my Saturn and I didn't see and beneficial yields. Not to mention it's $4.50/bottle compared to $1.75/bottle for dino...
I did my first oil change on my Trib last week - 5000 miles - with dino 5w-20 and the Trib is running well, the gas mileage is even going up.
April Sales = 3258
May Sales = 4872
***Total different 1614***
Hyundai received the highest record sales in history -May Sales Set New All-Time Record-!
-This is to proved about my statement before that the people are waiting for the Santa Fe and certain percentage of these people received their Santa Fe last month (May)-
You don't have to reply again this message. This is just a sharing information. If you don't mind then I would like to see the May sales releases for the Tribute and the Forester? Thank you.
Hey tonychrys if you really want to read frightening stories about owners with multiple and serious problems with their autos try the Tribute / Escape problems discussion. Over 800 messages and still going strong with gas fumes, non starting, recalls, etc.
Really tony your message made it sound as if all the paint on the sante Fe was falling to the ground... 3 posts.
But... Santa Fe owners cried foul when folks criticized the quality. The argument was that one can't use past Hyundai overall (across all product lines) quality data since the the SF was new and wouldn't be included in that data. But guess what? The 2001 JD Power Initial Quality Survey is out now and it does in fact breakout the Santa Fe on it's own... and it didn't do well in the rankings. I won't quote the actual ranking because I don't have the report in front of me right now. Maybe someone else who has access to it will help out.
-Frank P.
I hope that they should put the Lexus RX300 problem and others SUV problem so that people can bring up the problem subject within this Edmunds.com/Townhall too. I bet you everyone SUV should have problem; depend much or less.
p0926:
Personally, I don't want to see the Forester's sales volume grow....
**If the car don't really sales then how could the manufacture stay in business. Every manufacture want to sell more but can they compete with other manufacture is a question mark***
How does he know if the manufacture want do it or not? I see commercial about the Forester very often on TV.
Unprecedented APEAL improvement
maybe you could show us the link..
the 2001 result is pretty much the same as the 2000.
they rank the CRV, Cherokee and Rav 4 as the top 3 entry SUV.
all three
I can't find anything there that would indicate that Hyundai or the SantaFe is ranked at the bottom as you seem to imply...
How does he know if the manufacture want do it or not? I see commercial about the Forester
very often on TV
the success of sales is determined not so much by how many particular units are sold but rather how many cars are unsold (often measured in days of supply on dealers lot).
Seeing an ad does not always mean that this vehicle is in unlimited production/supply. It does not mean that the manufacturer desperately wants to move it. For instance, WRX is advertised often, yet there will be only 10,000/year imported to the States, and most are pre-sold or on waiting lists. Does it mean WRX is less successful is sales than Pontiac Grand Ma sold at 10x or 100x higher numbers? If you ask me, I think Subaru is wasting money advertising Foresters or WRX, they are flying off the dealers lots as it is.
10,000/year imported to states...
Is this on every states or only on certain states? Can buyer buy from other state? Where is this figure come from? Is this only base on Subaru or other manufacture as well?
Gee, I've been lurking for a while, but that one prompted a response.
this is for consumers who wants to know how a vehicle ranks on JDPowers criteria.
I did a comparison between all four SUVs in this board and I got this figures:
-------------------------------- SF --- Tri --- Esc --- Sub ---
Mechanical Quality-------------- 2 --- 2 --- 2 --- 3
Feature and Accessory Quality--- 2 --- 2 --- 2 --- 2
Body and Interior Accessory----- 3 --- 2 --- 2 --- 3
Performance--------------------- 3 --- 3 --- 3 --- 3
Creature Comforts--------------- 3 --- 3 --- 3 --- 2
Style--------------------------- 4 --- 3 --- 4 --- 3
Total---------------------------17 --- 15 --- 16 --- 16
interstingly, the CRV got 21 pts, Rav4 got 18 and the Cherokee got 16(?).
I referred to it here as points, but in the JDPowers site, each point represent a certain percentage, to anyone who will check it out, you can see it there.
but before you jump into any conclusions about me, I don't think the SF is the perfect car for everyone. I'm not on a mission to trumpet the SF as the be all and end all of SUV as you put it. I agree that the best car is the one that suits one's own preferences. I just want other buyers and other forum participant to realize and accept that Hyundai has done their share in making the SF a good vehicle overall...
Yes, and I have read several non-Sante Fe owners acknowledging that already, so I think this point has been beaten to death. Now whether someone considers it a good value, or to their liking is personal preference, of course. Let's move on please!
Thanks,
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Maybe so, but posters still continue to make references and attempt to imply inferiority to the Sante Fe. The current quality record for first year of production would show the Triscape has had far more difficuilty than the Sante Fe. But, I see far more posts here questioning the SF's quality than that of the triscape.
Beaten to death or not, it seems some people cannot accept that Hyundai has produced a quality auto on par with anything in its class.
All the best,
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
I was lucky SOLD my F-150 3-1/2 years ago after only 5000km in obometer!
So! Do you still like a very fast ESCAPE or a slugglish car but safer?
Subaru & Ford should stop promoting their powerful horsepowers & how fast their acceleration (8.5 sec????) through advertising. Be more educated like the Hyundai's drivers (Safty first, speed last!)
Don't kill yourself because u drive a powerful Subaru or fast Triscape (like what happen in the video link) before it is too late! BTW it's just a piece of metal & why paid so much & finally kill yourself just for performance?
Remember u drive in city not race track! Be smarter & more realistic! Also money smart!