I thought that you gave us your final words in post 231 of the Tribute/Escape v. Santa Fe forum?
"Any reply to them is wasting time & efforts. I just gave up to reply to all those clowns "here & over there" like those people gave up months ago! Why not the mice here just stay with those little clowns in subie+Ford+Hyundai forum & have funs by criticizing others & show your nonsenses!"
Well I guess your back to "educate all these non-Hyundai's salesmans." Oh well, at least for one person who dosen't sell a thing, it was nice while it lasted.
What does the Ford F150 have to do with the Escape? SF owners cry foul when folks compare it to past Hyundais, yet you pull the same the same trick with Ford.
Isn't there anybody here who can debate logically, or do I have to get the crash helmet out again? And no, I don't want hear about what we can buy in Korea/Eurpoe/whatever in 2002...
I see that in addition to this board, there is a similar one called " Hyundai Santa Fe vs Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute ". I think it might be a wise time to combine these as posts are slowing a little, and most people reading one read the other anyhow. For some variety/spice, how about one throwing the Liberty into the mix?
Bill, what ads are you talking about when you say Subaru and Ford should stop promoting "powerful horsepowers & how fast their acceleration (8.5 sec???)"? I've never seen any Subaru ads (except for the WRX) that emphasize speed. And why the "Bans powerful Engines" link? Isn't that just a news story about not speeding? Why is it in this forum? Does it have anything to do with Forster/Santa Fe/Triscape?
Finally, was it you or Hung that posted the pictures of passing a Mazda Tribute on the freeway? Is that a good example of "safety first, speed last"? Taking pictures with your camera while passing other vehicles, to show off the vehicle's speed?
to Drew, shall we close this forum now that you declared that we MOVE ON?? isn't it the purpose of this particular forum to compare and discuss the merits of the four vehicles?? I think I made one good point about Hyundai quality improvement and you urge us to move on??
dare I say bias?
tincup; I think we all know who you are referring to when you use the term "santa fe Zealots" but it doesn't reflect on all other owners. As a SF owner myself I am also worried about the overall long term reliability of the SF because we don't have any basis to say it would be a good vehicle after 5 years, but the same goes for the Tribute and Escape right? The forester has been around for a few years and has more reliability track record. The APEAL, Intial quality, good crash test rating and other awards that the SF receives is something to be proud of. I'm sure if the Tribute/Escape/Forester was awarded with those awards, owners will make it known out here too.
Also, I think as long as there are "Ardent SantaFe Bashers" on this board, count on those zealots to comeback.
to tony, where's the link about hyundai or SF doing poorly on the Initial Quality survey? Wouldn't it be a logical way of debating?
sasquatch I agree with sasquatch about merging the other SF vs Tribute/Escaper board because it is redundant.
If you read the article, the primary focus of the article was not to ban the development of, and sell of "powerful engines" but to restrict the sale of sport car type autos with powerful engines so young drivers and drivers with little experience (that would not know how to handle a vehicle with increased potential for speed) would not have such easy access to them. The article is focused on the problems with speeding . . .not the production of powerful engines. A 200HP engine on an SUV is NOT excessive in power and the 210HP engine in the Subaru Outback H6 3.0 is NOT excessive.
One more thing, motor power output and speed do not always co-exist. You can get very powerful V8 engines and V10 engines that are developed for use in large SUV's that are made that way so you can tow a 7000 lb trailer and still make your way up over a mountain pass. Not to sound like someone from the NRA but . . . a car does not kill, an uneducated driver that speeds does kill.
Hmm, adding more fuel to the fire... sounds like fun. Maybe we all should put helmets on order?
jericho_ave, take a look at billtung's two previous posts and you'll see what everyone is mostly responding to (not to mention hung0820's comments on this board). I'm sure that most Santa Fe owners out there are perfectly happy with their SUV without having to obsess about proving that whether their car is better than another. Unfortunately for those people, they have a mission to do just the opposite. The same goes for a couple Tribute, Forrester, Liberty, etc, owners out there too. I think that spending over $20,000 on any car will inject an amount of pride into any person.
I don't think the forum should be closed, people on this board are capable of valid arguments, but hey, that happened when hung and tung were not posting (check back about 50-100 messages). hmm...
Anyways, how does everyone feel about the Liberty while we're at it? Let's see if they can keep up a good debate! I have a feeling that this forum will go on forever.
What about diesel engines? I was reading about the Liberty on their web site, and it has a great diesel engine for overseas, which would be perfect for my needs. It has tons of torque way down low, perfect for towing and off roading, plus diesel is supposed to be cheaper and more economical (haven't checked lately).
Hey, while we are at it, why not restrict the reading of slower people only to books they can handle? Or maybe only let amateur chefs make peanut butter sandwiches?
Silver, very nice looking, nice leather interior (dealership owner showing it off), beautiful silver paint. I really liked the way the back doors both open at once. I really didn't like the lack of room in back. Very small area behind rear seats. The dog probably wouldn't like it, and it looks MUCH MUCH smaller than the Cherokee's and even SMALLER STILL than the older Cherokee/Wagoneer (Grand Cherokee? Grand Wagoneer?).
Overall, nice, but I'm not sure of the size, off road capability, un-proven-ness, and the new engine in general.
Because of our poor diesel fuel quality in N.America (more than 10 times more sulphur than in Euro. diesel fuel), the diesel engines will not be sold here. The advanced catalytic converters that are used to clean the diesel engine emissions would be ruined in no time! Heck, even the gasoline engines' catalytic converters are already being clogged up by our high sulphur content in regular petrol. DaimlerChrysler has stated that until low sulphur diesel is mandated, they won't be bringing over any of their diesel engines for the passenger vehicles. A shame really....
However, something to consider is that even the modern diesel engines emit smoke at certain operating temperatures. This particulate material has been proven to be carcinogenic. Fortunately technology has been recently invented to eliminate the particulate material by up to 90% (IIRC). Unfortunately since it is still very new, no one has incorporated it into any of the vehicles yet.
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I already stated I thought the big disappointment was the small space behind the rear seat. The only things this vehicle has over the others is its off road ability (even if not as good as the Cherokee, it is better than the remaining competition), and full frame for towing.
The only thing which would make me consider buying it would be if it is less than $20,000 and reliable. Those last two are yet to be seen. I suspect it will be more reliable than its predecessor, the Cherokee. This will help draw some in and keep others in JEEPs, but maybe not until after a year, but who knows?
Now, if only they made the Wrangler with maybe 6-8" longer wheelbase.... (I really like the convertible...saw a Range Rover "something" wagon down the Cape on Memorial Day weekend and thought it was pretty neat.) I wish Honda or Hyundai would make a convertible SUV to compete with Wrangler. Maybe Jeep can remove the top and back seat from the Liberty?
Passing Car: Everyone is driving fast sometime but when you want to drive fast make sure no car are in front or maybe in back of you. The picture show the Santa Fe passing the Tribute is an example of making a good judgment at certain point when you drive. "Bill is not causing a problem or accident"!
Power speed: When the car have much power the car easy to move (speed)! At anytime the car can speed which easily can cause accident (more); which the report have said***While other bigger car make more powerful but that was not really the power to speed but the power to load/tow and well as those big Truck/SUV expand the size as well (basically need more space, tow, load)***Not for Speed**....
**Well! I guess it is time for me to go and learn more about the Liberty first before I can put comment on the Liberty! Just Wait***
And everyone says that driving while talking on a cell phone is the most dangerous thing anyone can do - well, of course besides drunk driving! Hung, I think Senor Tung just one upped everyone's beliefs, let me see:
1) Taking your eyes off the road - now at least drunk drivers can still see the road. 2) Taking a picture while driving - not only does this take your first priority off the road, it blocks your vision. Good thinking, no?! At least people with cell phones are only distracted, not blind and distracted!
I'm sure this world is a lot safer with drivers obsessed with showing off their SUV's capabilities! Why doesn't the government just outlaw the law against drunk driving, then everyone will be safe! GET REAL!
jmlagasca: **Not sure exactly what you mean but when you drive with one hand on the steering and the other hand press-snap a picture but your eyes still in front of the steering wheel! It is just like driving with one hand but the other hand holding a cup. How hard is that! Shooting a picture not necessary you have to put your eyes on the camera focus/lense** **I don't get it when you said GET REAL either! Have you ever drive your car with one hand on the steering wheel while the other hand doing something? I bet you everbody have done and experience in their life.
**I always drive with one hand on the steering wheel anyway! I do believe plenty of other people do the same too! Look at the number of people drive the stick-shift; aren't they driving with one hand on the steering wheel! It takes about a second or less to shoot a picture; It is even better than you hold the the cup to drink it.**
I've driven manual transmission cars for years, and I've raced in SCCA amatuer racing. You keep both hands on the wheel unless you are in the act of shifting gears! Resting your hand on the shift lever is damaging to the transmission and can cost precious time in reacting to an emergency situation. If you need pics taken in your car, have a passenger take them.
in this Months Motor Trend. I'm telling you Hyundia needs to boost the power of this V6.. There are 4cyl engines that are putting this V6 to shame! Overall a good non bias article.. I see alot of comparison to the Subaru Forester. The Forester would take an offroad excursion much better than the Santa Fe. Subaru has also been making 4wd systems much, much longer than Hyundia. When I read articles about the Santa Fe from any review its always the styling that takes the hit. If Hyundia were to do somthing with the frontend and rearend in the next model I bet they would do even better in sales. As far as Hyundias on order? There are 11 sitting right now at Scott Thomason Hyundia in Gladstone Oregon....
The manual shifting automatics have almost as many different names as 4WD-AWD systems. Most manufacturers come up with their own trademarked name for them. This is not licensed technology as it is genrally accomplished with software in the ECU's that control shifting. Even regular automatics allow manual shifting, it just isn't as convenient. Not all of the manual shifting automatics truly mimic manual shifting, they only allow shifts within certain conditions determined by the ECU. Most people I have run into who have these play with them for a couple of weeks, then just stick them in "D". Chrysler, Lincoln, Audi, VW, Hyundai, Land Rover, BMW, Lexus.... the list grows monthly, all offer the manual shifting Automatics, some 4 speed, some 5 speed.
Some, like the Porsche are much more sporting oriented. They still have to limit the rev range for up and downshifts to protect the trans. One area I find them lacking is that when I want to change gears, I want it to happen then, not 3-5 seconds later when the ECU decides it is within its operating parameters. Another is (in my Mustang) I sometimes downshift from 4-2 (utilising heel-toe throttle-braking to match revs) to set my car up for a corner. I can see the benefits of the auto-manual trans and wished our Subaru had it available, but I suspect it would stay in "D" most of the time, as for most driving it isn't necessary or advantageous.
There is not much of a delay when shifting the Hyundai shiftronic. Only a fraction of a second. My brother owns a 911 (1991??)with Tiptronic. On his car, the delay in the shift is often up to 3-4 seconds as you mentioned.
I understand his Porsche has an earlier version of that system but we both agree that the shiftronic works better in my Hyundai than in his Porsche.
Why are you comparing the Liberty , a 4wd vehicle, to the Santa Fe, Forrester, and Escape/Tribute twins, all of which are all-wheel-drive? The Forrester is just an all-wheel-drive car, really, so it doesn't belong. Its payload is quite small, as well. I hope someone actually uses the Liberty for what it was intended, and (heaven forbid!!gasp!) take it off-road and go camping in it. It will probably become a weenerhead staus- symbol trend-of- the- year.
Subaru Forester S- 1035lbs Ford Escape- 900lbs Hyundai Santa Fe- 1400lbs Jeep Liberty- 1150lbs It seems to me that the Forester is in the same class in payload. The Santa Fe is also based on a car chassis, which for 95% of SUV buyers is completely adequate. If you have serious off-roading in mind the Liberty would be the best choice of these vehicles, but if not any of these could be a completely satisfactory vehicle.
an all-wheel drive car or else the Santa Fe and Escape/Tribute are just tall all-wheel drive station wagons. See...how ridiculous the labeling is? BTW, a lot of Forester owners take their vehicles off-road to camping sites, beaches, etc. With 7.5" of ground clearance it more than holds its own when compared to other small AWD SUVs/Station wagons, whatever. Even my 00'OB Ltd wagon was fine for most similar off-road jaunts.
Also, they fall into the same price range, and same basic purpose.
The first thing I do (did? am doing?) is set a budget. Then I try to see what, within certain budgetary constraints, best suits my needs.
If I can get a vehicle which meets my needs better within that budget, I will. I have been spending a lot of time on these boards asking questions, trying to see what might best fit my needs. Some of the criteria are: 4X4 ability, towing capacity, comfort in back for dog, comfort for me, power, reliability, size, reputation for quality, fuel efficiency, looks, "sportiness", FUN, cargo capacity (bikes, skis, canoe, 5 guys plus 5 full size coolers and gear, camping gear, guns(tiedowns, covered), fishing gear, kayaks), maintenance level, etc.
Speed/Payload: I still don't get why people mention about the speed of the car again! Since I have explained it before! Bigger engine does not really mean that you can drive fast. Bigger car increase size, and the engine allow to do more payload/weight. AS it was stated on Tincup: The Santa Fe can carried more payload than any of the car listed within this discussion board. **If you put weight on the car the Santa Fe will still go find while if you put the weight in the RAV4 is will get much slower because it used the 4 cylinder.
Picture take: When driving in the car; it takes you about a second or so to shoot the picture. Just hold up the camera and shoot and then put it down. Your hand now it free to put back into the steering wheel if you needed. How hard is that? *Remember you already have the other hand on the steering wheel*
Shiftronic: Once you know how to adapt to the Shiftronic they you can drive and feel really sporty on the Santa Fe. It is faster than you drive A/T="D". Most places try to test the Santa Fe but they used A/T instead of Shiftronic. They mentioned about the 1st gear jump to 2nd gear very quick. However, if they would used the Shiftronic then they can leave it on 1st gear and transfer to 2nd gear when need but A/T cause to quick to shift. **The main reason why those places can not test the Shiftronic because their computer does not read the miles correctly (sort of like that they mention)**
I saw pics of the Tribscape and thought the interior was nicely appointed esp. the doors with the nice chrome and soft inserts. Then I went to a dealership to see for myself. Man what a disappointment. The inserts were actually hard plastic, the chrome-look door handles were flimsier than anything I've encountered before. I can give them credit for having the look, but the actually feel of the vehicle, IMO, leaves much to be desired. The interior of my 11 y/o Acura feels luxurious in comparison.
If you read the long term test on the Tribute ES, they have commented about the low-budget feel of the interior as well. I would hope that Ford/Mazda would do something about this in the next generation of the vehicle.
I have followed the long term test for the Tribute and every single staffer that has driven the Tribute agrees that it is fun to drive and is quite responsive and agile. It would be interesting to see a long term test with a single driver so the "mash the accelerator" thrill would wane and some more economical driving habits could be seen. I would like to see the fuel economy numbers from a source that isn't having the driver "hot-rod" around and thus reducing fuel efficiency. So far, the test vehicle for Edmunds is averaging around 18 MPG (which, by the way, is what the sticker says to expect in city driving). I would imagine, that if the vehicle is averaging 18 MPG with a new driver every 30 days, that a long term ownership would result in better fuel economy. The Tribute still appeals to me but I would like to see the interior detail improved and a 5 speed manual transmission on the V6.
I agree. I do think the interior is fine for what you pay for, but, a little more padding and a little less plastic would have made it so much nicer inside.
test and mpg, I found something interesting this morning. I routinely average 18mpg for my city commute, and although my wife rides into work with me, I always drive. I just enjoy driving, while she is indeferent. Anywho, for the last two days my wife has had to make the commute by herself. When I got into the Tribute this morning I was a little shocked. Low and behold, the mileage was at least 30 miles better at half a tank then I usually get. It'll be interesting to see how it effects the mpg average when we fill up. What's my point? Well, if my wife's driving is 30 mpg better than my driving for a half a tank, say 60 more when if she drove for the whole tank, that would average to be around 22mpg, four more than my average of 18mpg. What does this mean? First, my foot is too heavy. My wife is no fun to drive with. And Finally, it would be interesting to see the Tribute driven by a sane person for more than a month in a long term test.
Hey I didn't mean to 'dis' your ride (sorry but that term aptly describes my intent) .. I still think the Tribute looks awesome for a mid-$20K truck (in loaded form) .. you do get a lot for your money and that's important. Now if only they would do what you said (more soft padding and better door handle), which I would think costs so dam little to do, their truck would be something to contend with! Quality is in the details, as Honda and Toyota know so well.
Hey I seem to remember some years ago that Mazda marketed Kansei engineering (something like that) that boasts a high level of ergonomics in their cars. I seem to also remember that they pioneered the vertical window switches that are now common, making their operation more logical than the fore/aft action of traditional switches (altho I have no problem with them).
So I was surprised when I saw how the shifter on the Tribute is so long that it blocks the radio/HVAC controls when in Drive. Seems to me that this is an egregious oversight in ergonomic design. I thought that if the shifter were just 3 inches shorter that this wouldn't be much of a problem. Simple fix - I hope they look into it.
Hence why humor does not work in chat/posting form. I know you were not "dissing" my ride, you were just stating an opinion I agree with. I was trying to begin my post with a tone of offense (as many do when they think someone is attacking them) and then meekly agree in a sort of "hey your right" attempt at humor. Sorry, sometimes my sarcasm doesn't translate well to written media.
I knew you weren't taking offense but still, this is a forum about Tributes and I wanted to state that I like the truck but find faults that, although minor, seriously affect the image of the truck. However, I am very forthright about my opinion of the A$$Tick in the "Aztec is ugly"forum .. haha
...to their own opinion. Different people look for different things in a vehicle. My 2 cents:
We own a Mazda Protege. We had a Ford F150 that had over 100k miles, and needed a replacement. We wanted something that sat high enough to see around all the Expeditions on the road in So. Calif., but also had comfortable passenger capacity with moderate payload. We don't have a farm or heavy duty business, so a truck wasn't really necessary, and with gas prices movin' on up, we were concerned with MPG. We bought a Caravan, and were really happy with it, but it was totaled (with no injuries) at 8 months. In the meantime, we'd refined what we wanted, and with the Caravan as a solid backup choice, we went shopping.
Drove a Tribscape, Passrodeo, Santa Fe, Grand Cherokee, Liberty, and Explorer. We also checked safety ratings on everything (after the accident, I'm a firm believer in crash tests). We settled on a Hyundai Santa Fe for several reasons: not so high off the ground that you need a stepladder to get in without running boards, decent gas mileage, good ride (we'll rarely take it offroad, and then only on unimproved roads, not wilderness), excellent safety rating, good value for the money (all the extras we wanted, and out the door for $22k) and a great warranty. Yes, I know, we may have to *use* the warranty, but so do all the other brands. We had a Ford Mustang II that was...oh, nevermind.
I'm a big fan of Mazdas (no trouble with the Protege in 90k miles), but I was very disappointed with the Tribute. It didn't feel solid (as one friend said, "It was like driving a skateboard.") I'm so-so on Fords, but Jim is a big fan, and he liked the way the Explorer drives (felt like his F150) but the hike into the cab is not much fun for a short folk like me, and the gas mileage wasn't encouraging. Also the price wasn't friendly. Passrodeo was nice, but seemed overpriced for what it had - for that price, the Explorer was a better deal. The Jeeps were, well, Jeeps. If we were going to do a lot of offroading, they would have been serious contenders, but for city folk, nah. The Santa Fe had the best mix for what we were looking for, and we're deliriously happy with it. It steers like the Explorer, rides like the Passrodeo, has mileage like the Tribscape, costs less than any of them for what we got on it, and has better safety ratings than any of them. All in all, a good deal for us.
It seems like you were comparing out of class. I mean, instead of comparing the Tribscape and santa Fe with the others, shouldn't you have looked also at the RAV4, CR-V, Grand Vitara SL-7 and Xterra? They're pretty much all in the same price class.
Comments
"Any reply to them is wasting time & efforts. I just gave up to reply to all those clowns "here & over there" like those people gave up months ago! Why not the mice here just stay with those little clowns in subie+Ford+Hyundai forum & have funs by criticizing others & show your nonsenses!"
Well I guess your back to "educate all these non-Hyundai's salesmans." Oh well, at least for one person who dosen't sell a thing, it was nice while it lasted.
Isn't there anybody here who can debate logically, or do I have to get the crash helmet out again? And no, I don't want hear about what we can buy in Korea/Eurpoe/whatever in 2002...
I see that in addition to this board, there is a similar one called " Hyundai Santa Fe vs Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute ". I think it might be a wise time to combine these as posts are slowing a little, and most people reading one read the other anyhow. For some variety/spice, how about one throwing the Liberty into the mix?
Finally, was it you or Hung that posted the pictures of passing a Mazda Tribute on the freeway? Is that a good example of "safety first, speed last"? Taking pictures with your camera while passing other vehicles, to show off the vehicle's speed?
shall we close this forum now that you declared that we MOVE ON??
isn't it the purpose of this particular forum to compare and discuss the merits of the four vehicles?? I think I made one good point about Hyundai quality improvement and you urge us to move on??
dare I say bias?
tincup;
I think we all know who you are referring to when you use the term "santa fe Zealots" but it doesn't reflect on all other owners. As a SF owner myself I am also worried about the overall long term reliability of the SF because we don't have any basis to say it would be a good vehicle after 5 years, but the same goes for the Tribute and Escape right? The forester has been around for a few years and has more reliability track record. The APEAL, Intial quality, good crash test rating and other awards that the SF receives is something to be proud of. I'm sure if the Tribute/Escape/Forester was awarded with those awards, owners will make it known out here too.
Also, I think as long as there are "Ardent SantaFe Bashers" on this board, count on those zealots to comeback.
to tony,
where's the link about hyundai or SF doing poorly on the Initial Quality survey? Wouldn't it be a logical way of debating?
sasquatch
I agree with sasquatch about merging the other SF vs Tribute/Escaper board because it is redundant.
JD Power Initial Quality Survey
Enjoy
One more thing, motor power output and speed do not always co-exist. You can get very powerful V8 engines and V10 engines that are developed for use in large SUV's that are made that way so you can tow a 7000 lb trailer and still make your way up over a mountain pass. Not to sound like someone from the NRA but . . . a car does not kill, an uneducated driver that speeds does kill.
Please note that the Jeep Liberty has now been added to the topic title, so feel free to compare it as well.
Drew
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jericho_ave, take a look at billtung's two previous posts and you'll see what everyone is mostly responding to (not to mention hung0820's comments on this board). I'm sure that most Santa Fe owners out there are perfectly happy with their SUV without having to obsess about proving that whether their car is better than another. Unfortunately for those people, they have a mission to do just the opposite. The same goes for a couple Tribute, Forrester, Liberty, etc, owners out there too. I think that spending over $20,000 on any car will inject an amount of pride into any person.
I don't think the forum should be closed, people on this board are capable of valid arguments, but hey, that happened when hung and tung were not posting (check back about 50-100 messages). hmm...
Anyways, how does everyone feel about the Liberty while we're at it? Let's see if they can keep up a good debate! I have a feeling that this forum will go on forever.
Hey, while we are at it, why not restrict the reading of slower people only to books they can handle? Or maybe only let amateur chefs make peanut butter sandwiches?
Get real!
Silver, very nice looking, nice leather interior (dealership owner showing it off), beautiful silver paint. I really liked the way the back doors both open at once. I really didn't like the lack of room in back. Very small area behind rear seats. The dog probably wouldn't like it, and it looks MUCH MUCH smaller than the Cherokee's and even SMALLER STILL than the older Cherokee/Wagoneer (Grand Cherokee? Grand Wagoneer?).
Overall, nice, but I'm not sure of the size, off road capability, un-proven-ness, and the new engine in general.
At least that's true for truck diesels. I don't know about car diesels, like the VW Golf.
Bob
However, something to consider is that even the modern diesel engines emit smoke at certain operating temperatures. This particulate material has been proven to be carcinogenic. Fortunately technology has been recently invented to eliminate the particulate material by up to 90% (IIRC). Unfortunately since it is still very new, no one has incorporated it into any of the vehicles yet.
Drew
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The only thing which would make me consider buying it would be if it is less than $20,000 and reliable. Those last two are yet to be seen. I suspect it will be more reliable than its predecessor, the Cherokee. This will help draw some in and keep others in JEEPs, but maybe not until after a year, but who knows?
Now, if only they made the Wrangler with maybe 6-8" longer wheelbase.... (I really like the convertible...saw a Range Rover "something" wagon down the Cape on Memorial Day weekend and thought it was pretty neat.) I wish Honda or Hyundai would make a convertible SUV to compete with Wrangler. Maybe Jeep can remove the top and back seat from the Liberty?
to liberty owners, welcome aboard!!!
As noted, all of these vehicles (not just the SF) are below industry average. Nothing to crow about.
Everyone is driving fast sometime but when you want to drive fast make sure no car are in front or maybe in back of you. The picture show the Santa Fe passing the Tribute is an example of making a good judgment at certain point when you drive. "Bill is not causing a problem or accident"!
Power speed:
When the car have much power the car easy to move (speed)! At anytime the car can speed which easily can cause accident (more); which the report have said***While other bigger car make more powerful but that was not really the power to speed but the power to load/tow and well as those big Truck/SUV expand the size as well (basically need more space, tow, load)***Not for Speed**....
**Well! I guess it is time for me to go and learn more about the Liberty first before I can put comment on the Liberty! Just Wait***
I can't wait to see what happens after Libertys are out on the streets for a month or two.
Imagine that.
And everyone says that driving while talking on a cell phone is the most dangerous thing anyone can do - well, of course besides drunk driving! Hung, I think Senor Tung just one upped everyone's beliefs, let me see:
1) Taking your eyes off the road - now at least drunk drivers can still see the road.
2) Taking a picture while driving - not only does this take your first priority off the road, it blocks your vision. Good thinking, no?! At least people with cell phones are only distracted, not blind and distracted!
I'm sure this world is a lot safer with drivers obsessed with showing off their SUV's capabilities! Why doesn't the government just outlaw the law against drunk driving, then everyone will be safe! GET REAL!
**Not sure exactly what you mean but when you drive with one hand on the steering and the other hand press-snap a picture but your eyes still in front of the steering wheel! It is just like driving with one hand but the other hand holding a cup. How hard is that! Shooting a picture not necessary you have to put your eyes on the camera focus/lense** **I don't get it when you said GET REAL either! Have you ever drive your car with one hand on the steering wheel while the other hand doing something? I bet you everbody have done and experience in their life.
**I always drive with one hand on the steering wheel anyway! I do believe plenty of other people do the same too! Look at the number of people drive the stick-shift; aren't they driving with one hand on the steering wheel! It takes about a second or less to shoot a picture; It is even better than you hold the the cup to drink it.**
Banning powerfull cars off the road does not get my vote either!
Can we get back to SUV's please????
Guy
I see alot of comparison to the Subaru Forester. The Forester would take an offroad excursion much better than the Santa Fe. Subaru has also been making 4wd systems much, much longer than Hyundia.
When I read articles about the Santa Fe from any review its always the styling that takes the hit. If Hyundia were to do somthing with the frontend and rearend in the next model I bet they would do even better in sales. As far as Hyundias on order? There are 11 sitting right now at Scott Thomason Hyundia in Gladstone Oregon....
In fact, are they at all the same? Are they licensed? If not, what are the differences, both plus and minus?
What are the names? Tiptronic, Shiftronic, Shiftomatic? Other?
I think this is a great idea on the Hyundai, and if it were on the Liberty, it would be MY first choice. It is like the best of both worlds.
Chrysler, Lincoln, Audi, VW, Hyundai, Land Rover, BMW, Lexus.... the list grows monthly, all offer the manual shifting Automatics, some 4 speed, some 5 speed.
I really wasn't sure if they were all the same technology or not.
Thanks.
Plus, the wife doesn't drive manual.
I understand his Porsche has an earlier version of that system but we both agree that the shiftronic works better in my Hyundai than in his Porsche.
Are the rear seats on any removable? I don't mean tilt forward, but can be easily taken out (4 bolts or less).
Can a 6 footer lay down and sleep decently in any of these for camping?
Ford Escape- 900lbs
Hyundai Santa Fe- 1400lbs
Jeep Liberty- 1150lbs
It seems to me that the Forester is in the same class in payload. The Santa Fe is also based on a car chassis, which for 95% of SUV buyers is completely adequate. If you have serious off-roading in mind the Liberty would be the best choice of these vehicles, but if not any of these could be a completely satisfactory vehicle.
Stephen
The first thing I do (did? am doing?) is set a budget. Then I try to see what, within certain budgetary constraints, best suits my needs.
If I can get a vehicle which meets my needs better within that budget, I will. I have been spending a lot of time on these boards asking questions, trying to see what might best fit my needs. Some of the criteria are: 4X4 ability, towing capacity, comfort in back for dog, comfort for me, power, reliability, size, reputation for quality, fuel efficiency, looks, "sportiness", FUN, cargo capacity (bikes, skis, canoe, 5 guys plus 5 full size coolers and gear, camping gear, guns(tiedowns, covered), fishing gear, kayaks), maintenance level, etc.
Thanks for letting me clear that up.
I still don't get why people mention about the speed of the car again! Since I have explained it before! Bigger engine does not really mean that you can drive fast. Bigger car increase size, and the engine allow to do more payload/weight. AS it was stated on Tincup: The Santa Fe can carried more payload than any of the car listed within this discussion board. **If you put weight on the car the Santa Fe will still go find while if you put the weight in the RAV4 is will get much slower because it used the 4 cylinder.
Picture take:
When driving in the car; it takes you about a second or so to shoot the picture. Just hold up the camera and shoot and then put it down. Your hand now it free to put back into the steering wheel if you needed. How hard is that? *Remember you already have the other hand on the steering wheel*
Shiftronic:
Once you know how to adapt to the Shiftronic they you can drive and feel really sporty on the Santa Fe. It is faster than you drive A/T="D". Most places try to test the Santa Fe but they used A/T instead of Shiftronic. They mentioned about the 1st gear jump to 2nd gear very quick. However, if they would used the Shiftronic then they can leave it on 1st gear and transfer to 2nd gear when need but A/T cause to quick to shift. **The main reason why those places can not test the Shiftronic because their computer does not read the miles correctly (sort of like that they mention)**
Get over it.
I have followed the long term test for the Tribute and every single staffer that has driven the Tribute agrees that it is fun to drive and is quite responsive and agile. It would be interesting to see a long term test with a single driver so the "mash the accelerator" thrill would wane and some more economical driving habits could be seen. I would like to see the fuel economy numbers from a source that isn't having the driver "hot-rod" around and thus reducing fuel efficiency. So far, the test vehicle for Edmunds is averaging around 18 MPG (which, by the way, is what the sticker says to expect in city driving). I would imagine, that if the vehicle is averaging 18 MPG with a new driver every 30 days, that a long term ownership would result in better fuel economy. The Tribute still appeals to me but I would like to see the interior detail improved and a 5 speed manual transmission on the V6.
So I was surprised when I saw how the shifter on the Tribute is so long that it blocks the radio/HVAC controls when in Drive. Seems to me that this is an egregious oversight in ergonomic design. I thought that if the shifter were just 3 inches shorter that this wouldn't be much of a problem. Simple fix - I hope they look into it.
We own a Mazda Protege. We had a Ford F150 that had over 100k miles, and needed a replacement. We wanted something that sat high enough to see around all the Expeditions on the road in So. Calif., but also had comfortable passenger capacity with moderate payload. We don't have a farm or heavy duty business, so a truck wasn't really necessary, and with gas prices movin' on up, we were concerned with MPG. We bought a Caravan, and were really happy with it, but it was totaled (with no injuries) at 8 months. In the meantime, we'd refined what we wanted, and with the Caravan as a solid backup choice, we went shopping.
Drove a Tribscape, Passrodeo, Santa Fe, Grand Cherokee, Liberty, and Explorer. We also checked safety ratings on everything (after the accident, I'm a firm believer in crash tests). We settled on a Hyundai Santa Fe for several reasons: not so high off the ground that you need a stepladder to get in without running boards, decent gas mileage, good ride (we'll rarely take it offroad, and then only on unimproved roads, not wilderness), excellent safety rating, good value for the money (all the extras we wanted, and out the door for $22k) and a great warranty. Yes, I know, we may have to *use* the warranty, but so do all the other brands. We had a Ford Mustang II that was...oh, nevermind.
I'm a big fan of Mazdas (no trouble with the Protege in 90k miles), but I was very disappointed with the Tribute. It didn't feel solid (as one friend said, "It was like driving a skateboard.") I'm so-so on Fords, but Jim is a big fan, and he liked the way the Explorer drives (felt like his F150) but the hike into the cab is not much fun for a short folk like me, and the gas mileage wasn't encouraging. Also the price wasn't friendly. Passrodeo was nice, but seemed overpriced for what it had - for that price, the Explorer was a better deal. The Jeeps were, well, Jeeps. If we were going to do a lot of offroading, they would have been serious contenders, but for city folk, nah. The Santa Fe had the best mix for what we were looking for, and we're deliriously happy with it. It steers like the Explorer, rides like the Passrodeo, has mileage like the Tribscape, costs less than any of them for what we got on it, and has better safety ratings than any of them. All in all, a good deal for us.