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Suzuki Grand Vitara vs Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape vs Saturn



  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    Some folks got tired of all the "rationalization" and so-called "knowledge" of the automotive industry flying around. So some folks set up a "trap" to prove what was going on once and for all.

    In this message here gtmustang "Hyundai Santa Fe - Topic consolidation" Mar 15, 2001 7:30pm there is completely made up (false) information about a "Special Limited Edition" Santa Fe coming out.

    Right away, you chimed in with this message hung0820 "Hyundai Santa Fe - Topic consolidation" Mar 15, 2001 8:01pm confirming that the information is true.

    And this is just one example, there are many others.
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    What is your point about the model: We still all mention about the LX model not the so-called your term SLE (Special Limited Edition )!

    The manufacture/dealers just add gold trim, chrome wheels, and spoiler etc. to make the car look better and sell it at a little higher price!!!!I can add this on my car right now too....What's your point here.....They are still LX model...Special Badge is basically the gold trim emblems/logo....Some percentage of the buyers that buy the SaFe with gold trim right out the dealers lot.

    TonyChrys: I think you should just stop writing most of the nonsense stuffs here. I have answered most of your questions already: I think it is not good to do it here. If you like to continue then just send me email...If you really like to talk and think you have enough experience with your Lexus then go help the people in your Lexus Forum. As I always try my best to help my SaFe Forum people here within this site as well as other SaFe forum site. I don't really mind of argue and talk because I can do it for the whole day and any day.
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    In the future, please provide a link instead of copying the information since that is copyright infringement.

    Thank you,

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  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Sorry! I will do the link next time....
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Let's not turn this into a debate about Consumer Reports and AutoPacific. Just take the info FWIW.

    I just a review of the Kia Optima, which is based on the Sonata, and they mentioned that for 2002 it will get a 2.7l V6 (gee, wonder where that's coming from...)

    Any how, it will make 185hp, which I find odd. That's a bit more than the Sante Fe, and it would seem the Santa Fe has more weight and more room under the vehicle for a freer-flowing exhaust.

    My point? There is room for improvement with that engine, and they should exploit that ASAP. Give it 200hp to match the Triscape, and watch sales blossom.

    The new Forester ought to be out in less than a year (and will have more power), but the Santa Fe is new and needs to compete for several more years. To me, the powertrain should get attention first.

  • guyf1guyf1 Member Posts: 50
    To some degree I agree with you but what the Santa Fe really needs in my opinion is more torque down at low revolutions. There is not that much power below 3000-3500 RPM.

    Once the engine is above that range, I feel the power is more than adequate. It is somewhat difficult to keep it in that range with only 4 ratios in the auto gear box however.

  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    I rather have my SaFe with the current power because the break-in period does make the car run different than compare to the new-time. Hyundai do have the 3.0 engine with 200+ horsepower but they want it to use on the XG300. Hyundai are not stupid to do match-up with power. The power on the SaFe is more than enough for me. I am a guy who really drive faster than normal people. I find the SaFe is faster and powerful over the average people demand already.

    Look at the gas now-a-day! I rather have my engine with the 2.7=181hp compare to the 3.0=200+hp! "I guess you know what I mean". I put lost of weights on my car with accessories and parts and plus of 3-4 passengers in my car and I still be able to drive on San Francisco hill very normal. I feel no gas pedal was needed at all. I am not lying about this issued if you visit me in San Francisco then I can proved to you about it.
  • john284john284 Member Posts: 71
    Well, it is drivetrain isn't it? Goodbye. You can have gazillions of accessories but if you ain't moving, sorry, weakest link.
  • curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    The Santa Fe's 181hp engine has EPA estimates of 19/26. The 200hp Tribute/Escape is 18/24. That is not a big difference in mpg, yet, 20 more hp is very noticible. The Tribute/Escape also has 23 more ft-lbs of Torque. Regardless, in my non-sicentific and novice approach, would not a heavily loaded Santa Fe have to rev at a higher rpm than an equally loaded Tribute/Escape, thus, increasing gas consumption?
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    So why don't we put the same amount of weights on your Forester and my SaFe and drive up the hill here in San Francisco and see what is the different? You think I am stupid enough to buy a car that cannot drive up hill here in San Francisco? I have lived in San Francisco since 1986.

    EPA estimates: Hard to trust because everyone drives in different condition. Try to see if you drive in traffic within 15 miles in San Francisco and take about nearly a 1-hour to go from home to work. Let's see the Tribute gas mileage compare to the SaFe gas mileage. I drove my father-in-law Isuzu Rodeo a few times and estimates of 13 mpg and while my SaFe get 17mpg. You think this EPA is good to do the judgment...Go and look at the EPA on the Rodeo and the SaFe and see what they have listed....You think the Rodeo is any different than the Tribute on the EPA....
  • curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    You are right that alot depends on driving style. However, wether or not the EPA estimates are exact, they do provide a basis for comparing various vehicles. Thus, using the EPA estimates for what they are, that is estimates, the Santa Fe will get around 1 mpg better than the Tribute in city driving and 2 mpg better in highway driving. This hold true even in San Fransico.
  • jericho_avejericho_ave Member Posts: 37
    Hey.. maybe we should change the title for this topic...

    instead of:
    Hyundai Santa Fe vs Mazda Tribute vs Subaru Forester

    lets call it:
    Hung0820 vs Mazda Tribute vs Subaru Forester


    a happy SaFe owner here.....
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    I don't know how much different between the Rodeo and the Tribute! The Rodeo on my Father-in-Law showing very close to the Tribute & SaFe on the EPA but when I drove it; the gas mileage is totally off....not 1,2, or 3 but 4mpg+ loosing.
  • scottf2scottf2 Member Posts: 14
    I have heard that the gas mileage at first is not that great in the SaFe. After one put's some mileage on it it get's better. Can anyone provide any truth to that statement? By monitoring folks ratings on Carpoint--alot of SaFe owners complained of "not-so-good" gas milage. Some Escape and Tribute owners liked their mileage....maybe thats because they don't have to push that gas as far to get the speed they need?

    I asked a SaFe salesman about the rough and frequent shifting of the SaFe and he told me something about a "fuzzylogic technology" in the SaFe transmission. He said that it adjusts to a persons driving habits and gets better over time. Can anyone provide any truth to that statement?...or was that the dealer feeding me a bunch of BULL.
  • curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    I think that you just need to move to San Fransico., the Santa Fe has a magical relationship with that city wherein you will have no problems with gas mileage at all while all others will be much lower than expected.
  • scottf2scottf2 Member Posts: 14
    Ha!! I wish it were that easy!
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Every dealers from every manufacture have good and bad salesman. I bet you I can be specifically a good salesman and telling the truth. Not sure what you or the salesman talking about the "fuzzylogic technology"! I haven't seen one person complain or saying anything about the speed idle, etc. according to the SANTAFEFORUM. The Santa Fe have the Shiftronic Shift Gear and you can drive "Manual" and/or "Automatic". This type of Shiftronic is also used on the BMW and the Porsche as well...Not exactly know what is the term you mentioned...

    Gas Mileage on other site opinion:
    There is plenty of sites out there epionion, carpoint, edmunds, etc....As I mentioned before all depend on the road condition of the person is driving...I get less gas mileage here in San Francisco which I have explained many time before. Hill, Traffic, etc...
    I see people driving 4Runner, Pathfinder, and RX300 and even get worser gas mileage here in BayArea not just San Francisco....I don't really have data on the Tribute but I can tell you it is going to be a little worser than the Santa Fe....
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Forester has good torque and a higher payload than either the Sante Fe or Tribute. Mine is rated for 1,040 lbs, more than many mid-size SUVs.

    Just an FYI, but Edmunds had a long-term Tribute/Escape (I forget which) and the average mileage was a rather pitiful 14mpg. While 200hp makes it quicker, I'm getting 25+mpg average, and remember I can carry a bigger payload.

    In tests, Forester is quicker and more efficient than the Santa Fe. So it wins in both regards here.

  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Anybody wonder how many people out there riding SUV without doing any Off-Road?: There are so many SUV driving on the road here in San Francisco without the use of Off-Road. Most of my friends and relatives owned SUV but never need to use Off-Road. My Father-in-Law was an example with his Isuzu Rodeo...His car I bet have more torque and power compare to the these 3 SUVs topic.

    I drive my SaFe faster than most average people on the road. I don't know how much more power does people really need? When will the people willing to use all power on their car? Most of the new model cars now-a-day already built faster than most average people demand already.. How often do people drive like a racing car and how often do people really need to run and cut lane all over the places.. All of these SUVs listed within this topic are above average people demand on power need. "You will be very surprise if you test drive all of these SUVs"! The smooth ride on the SaFe is relatively match the Lexus.

    I drove my SaFe on freeway and always on the fast lane! Ranging between 75mph average driving from San Francisco to San Jose/Sacramento/Santa Rosa at no traffic time. I only drive on no traffic time to the other cities...I "HARDLY" even get a chance to speed over other car. If I do I would shift it down to 3rd gears at Manual or force a little more gas on the pedal at A/T (to bypass the A/T overdrive) for just a second or so to pass through. The car really go well enough and you be surprise the smooth and sound!
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    that about 5% of the total SUV population actually go off road. However, with Jeep owners, it is a bit higher. They estimate that 15% of Jeep owners go off road. I just read that today from some(?) news release.

  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Thank you for the information:
    I guess most people just want higher ride and think it is more safer to drive in crash/accident!

    All I want to prove to people that if you don't really do much Off-Road compare to this percentage then you don't really need the car with much, much more power than you need it. Most of car now-a-day already above average people demand....
  • big_guybig_guy Member Posts: 372
    Actually, the Edmunds test vehicle is a Mazda Tribute and the average gas mileage over the length of the test so far has been 18.3 MPG. All of the staffers have complianed that the mileage should be better and that they should provide a larger gas tank. Other than that, all the staffers have remarked at how nimble the Tribute is and how much fun it is to drive.
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    So Much people don't want to do Off-Road and I would say the best V6 SUV for gas mileage would be the Santa Fe LX FWD-V6,TCS+ABS....
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Here's the link to the Long-Term Road Test of the 2001 Mazda Tribute ES-V6.

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  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    My 14000Km SaFe average gas comsumption 13L/100Km,(w/ 4wd & traction control, I considered it is a very good gas milage to me) (I do a lot of mountain climbing's & city driving, I lived in a house 1 thousand feets above sea level(my shop is almost on the sea level), use regular gas(not premium grade)).

    The reason that people don't drive luxuary SUV (like Lexus, BMW, Benz or Durago....etc) off-road is because no one so stupid to ruin their shinely BABY (bonus w/ mud & scratches) .....

    The main reasons they buy SUV is because most people like the look of the SUV(sporty), & yes the higher driving position make u see better & less eye fatigue during long drive.

    The cleverest people only go off-road with dirty trucks & may be dirty Jeep.

    If u don't like dirty & care for the body finishes of your beautiful SUV, then u should not so stupid to go off-road(like the MDX TV ad.- run the MDX in the rocky desert) & even go to the moon like the Escape (they are all liars!) with you. All the beautiful finished SUV is not made for Offroad driving, is that simple! Off-road driving is the job of non-luxurary equipped SUV.

    Who say the frontal crash test not so important!
    Pls read the following true story:

    My shop is located in a very busy highclass street mall beside the Royal bank. Everybody know my shop have added the SaFe to our delivery team 6 months ago. Everybody in the bank & owners of the neighbour business was so impressed by this car when I 1st got it in last November, they all comments SaFe is a very beautiful SUV, but after they all know it is a Hyundai's Brand, no one say another word. No matter how I mentioned the SaFe come with a very good value package, no one seem response. I can tell everyone still think Hyundai is a poor car brand vehicle, but for me is OK because it is just a delivery company SUV(with almost the same price I paid for my 1998 GMC safari (standard...)passenger van), I can't go delivery with BMW or Benz SUV, right?

    Two weeks ago, thing changes 180 degree, when my wife go to the bank, the whole bunches of managers, tellers, receptionists, came out to say congratuation to my wife that we have make a very clever decision to purchase the SaFe, they just follow some sources which I don't know... Tell my wife that it is the safest mini-SUV in the market, & they all wish they can own one in the future. (I tell myself, those people are so silly, they just followed whatever the magazines or mass media recommend, they don't use their own brains at all, that why so many people losing their $$$ in stock market, they buy whatever shares gain the most, & those people are usually the group that suffered the most in the end. They are the lambs... one followed others...)

    Last week, a lot of customers approached me & told me I have made a very wise choice to purchase my SaFe... just repeating a lot of postiive facts of SaFe, surprisingly they never said a negative word against the Hyundai. That made me really don't understand why Hyundai can so successfully turning their company poor imagine to good imagine in less than 6 months.... The SaFe & XG300 really changes Hyundai's cheap images..... Those good crashtest rating really can help auto makers to sell more of their cars!

    From Hyundai's cars were not so good... to Hyundai's cars is beautifully made & have good quality.....

    How phony & stupid are the majority!

    It is just my 2 cents
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Hung- Your slip is showing! Someone brings up the fact that your "perfect" Santa Fe doesn't have the most powerful engine and suddenly you start whistling a different tune. Now it's.... well the Santa Fe goes fast enough for me and who really needs more power? I also noticed you dodging the mpg issue by comparing the Santa Fe to the Rodeo instead.

    Bill- Stay retired. FYI: I personally skip right over War & Peace posts.

    By the way. I was behind a Santa Fe last weekend. The rear is definitely not its best feature. Although appearance is a very subjective topic, I'd give 1st place to the Tribute. I use to think that the Santa Fe was 2nd and the Forester 3rd but I'm not so sure anymore. The Santa Fe just looks "buggy" the more I see it.

    -Frank P.
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    You have a really BAD taste!

    Your unfair bias against SaFe already known by everyone, I think it is the time you go to retire with me.

    Just look at the Tribute's "Windstar's rear window", I laugh it is the best looking.... I just can't stop laughing..... I never saw any report have said Tribute have a beautiful body, just some report said it looks bigger than Escape, & more elegant/generous, nothing like distintive look as SaFe. I will rather choose Forester or Escape to be the 1st than Tribute. Tribute just look like a jack-up Windstar passenger van.... but most people think the new MPV is better! At least cheaper. & the Escape is more sporty(even boxy!)
    If SaFe look buggy, then what will u describe the BMW X5, the M-class, the MDX, and of course your beauty - the Tribute (which only look OK from outside, inside? cheap cheap cheap!)

    Frank! Don't be upset by what I've said to you! To each their own, I respect you to have the right to bias whatever u like (everybody know u are) & continue have your own taste - enjoy!
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    to discuss the vehicles in question, and not the person(s).

    Carry on,

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sorry, I was using old info. The 14mpg figure came from this earlier article:


    Though it looks like mileage improved dramatically after break-in. Time for me to catch up with some reading!

    Buggy? Nah, I prefer the "Angry Pikachu" label for the Sante Fe. ;-) It's distinctive and I give them credit for that, even though it's not my cup of tea.

    I find the Tribute handsome, more so than the Escape. But the Ford will still outsell the Mazda tenfold.

  • john284john284 Member Posts: 71
    How do you expect us to read your blah blah...? please keep it short and concise. We get your point, you are very keen on being the SF advocate, but let's us be a little less sentimental, does it really get hot in Canada these days?
    These days of computer age, it is relatively easy to make a car or SUV look and finish good (Chrysler starts it), but the quality issue is still a long way to go.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Bill- I, like a number of other posters, aren't biased against the Santa Fe. We just feel compelled to point out its weaknesses as a counterpoint to the massive volumes of gung-ho posts that you and Hung write. And yes, you're right, I'm not crazy about the looks of the BMW, Mercedes or Lexus SUVs either. I'm definitely more biased towards the traditional boxy SUV shape embodied by the Cherokee, Trooper or Land Rover. Hey, I guess that's why I like the way my Forester looks! :-)

    -Frank P.
  • big_guybig_guy Member Posts: 372
    One other thing about fuel consumption on the Tribute, the staffers that have driven the Edmunds long term test vehicle have stated that it is very difficult to resist mashing the accelerator to the floor and experience the fun factor that it provides. I think that contributes to the lower fuel economy numbers they have reported. If they allowed one staff member to drive the vehicle for a longer period of time, they may learn to drive a bit more conservatively and mileage would improve. Just an observation from reading the reports from the long term test.
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    It SUV! Why you need go fast? Santa Fe plenty fast! I know! I go downhill other day... it was flying!
  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    I think they (whoever "they" are) should call it a SOLLASUVETIASLB

    (Sort Of Looks Like A "Sporty" "Utility" Vehicle Even Though It's A Shinely Luxury Babymobile)
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Gas Mileage:
    As I mentioned before I went on and compare my SaFe with the Isuzu Rodeo from my father-in-law. If I would use the Tribute in the San Francisco the way I was driving is probably have the same gas mileage as I stated 13-15mpg while my SaFe would get 17-19mpg on my average condition driving in the city. I alway get 24-1/2 on freeway long ride! As you see Ateixeira have showed the link stated the Tribute gas mileage average fuel economy and the link show on message #481.

    Power on the SaFe:
    Most people test drive and does not understand the way the SaFe work. If you really need to speed up with power you just simply shift it down to lower gears. For instance if I was driving about 30-40 miles which is about 3rd-4th gears; if you want the car to go faster then just shift it to 2nd gears and even more then 1st gears. It is easy to high rev a little bit but you won't find it to do this often. Please notice: The SaFe high rev is very quiet and smooth. I "HARDLY" even get a chance to do it! I don't think most people understand how to use it....You will be surprise if you try it on the SaFe....
  • guyf1guyf1 Member Posts: 50
    - No question about it, the Santa Fe styling is "out of the standard envelope" as far as styling is concerned. The Forester is too! That's why people either like or hate these designs. For me, as I previously said, the exterior styling is secondary; I don't see it sitting inside the car!

    Power: I'm the one who brought the issue of low end torque. Any vehicle is faster off the line and more enjoyable to drive around town if it has plenty of low end. This is not the Santa Fe strong point but I can live with it. On the high end it is certainly OK, I went 190 Km-H (120 MPH) on the highway a couple of weeks ago so there is no shortage of power; it is just that the torque curve is higher in the RPM range than what I would have liked.

    (Hung, I know how to drive; I have been around cars and motorcyles all my life. I got my driver licence 26 years ago. I know how to downshift and how to use the shiftronic. Being a professional mechanical engineer working for a commercial vehicle manufacturer, I fully understand mechanics)

    My mileage match's Billtung; 13L/100 km (18.2 miles per US gallon) and I usually drive 80 mph on the highway, 70 mph on 2 lane roads.

    Stop arguing guys; these are all great vehicles..
    P.S. I would trade my other car, a Volvo S-70 GLT for a Subaru WRX any day...
  • curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    does not sound like anything I would want to do, would the engine still be attached to the car (Hung, this is a joke)?

    One last time on mpg. EPA Estimates (which for city driving I am getting, two mpg less for highway) pretty much state that if your Santa Fe is getting 17-19 mpg in the "Bay area," my Tribute would get 16-18. Then again I would be really upset if I went out side to drive home here in south Florida and found out that my Tribute was in the Bay area.
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Do you know how much does it cost for the gas in San Francisco now?????You will be crying....

    To Guyf1:
    Just to let you know about my "remark"! I said "Most" people don't know how to use the shift down gear but I did not say "Everyone"! My other remark is that I don't really try to argue with people but "Most" of my writing is answering people writing...Beside that I am not the one who started it with the subject...
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    u are wrong!
    I lived in a home one thousnad feets above the main road, & I delivery flowers to the north shore mountains(1 to 2 thousand feets average) almost everyday. U remind me a good/safety thing above these tank. Is its powertrain keep your car accelerate not so fast when u go downhill with the "D" shift on. I usually go down a deep slope with 40 degree incline about 500 feets horizontal everytime when I go to the main road, amazingly the SaFe is just slowly..slowly...mostly keep in 50-60km/hr & finally reaching 70km/hr & that is! (Provided u don't step on the accelerator to force the SaFe go faster!!! Of course u can if u like!) It might be a weak point for SaFe, 'cause some people like to fly down the hill by not applying brake using "D" shift. But I think it is a safety
    speed restraining feature in SaFe.

    I hated my former Acura Integra FWD to go downhill, is because the 4 cyl FWD engine break is so weak, it reaches sometime over 100km/hr if I don't apply the brake really hard.

    I like go downhill w/ my GMC RWD because I can always shift to 3rd gear(or 2 gear if really slopy).

    Tonychrys! The heavier weight doesn't really mean will increase the downhill speed of a car if the driver not pressing the accelerator at all, it mainly depend on the overall design of the powertrain system.

    Look at those Honda Civic flying down the hill frequently, u know how light the Civic is?

    One weak thing in SaFe is the engine too quiet, the noise from the running fan is so irritated! That why I always play my Beethoven #5 when I drive to override the noise!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No fair bringing up the WRX! ;-)

    Premium fuel near my house costs $2.059. Boy, we should be glad these all run on regular 87 octane!

  • john284john284 Member Posts: 71
    running too quiet. it only means your SaFe fans need lube. unless you think the brake pad is the gas pad.
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    ... I guess folks don't recognize sarcasm when they read it ;-)
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Speaking of soaring gas prices.... did I mention that I avg 27.3 mpg with my Forester?

    Let me get this straight... downshifting increases engine revs? So that's what I've been doing wrong! But then again, maybe that explains my gas mileage ;-)

    Speaking of noisy engine fans... you ain't heard nothing if you haven't heard the one in the HMMWV (mil spec). With that one you actually have to yell to be heard over it! :(o)

    -Frank P.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    tonychrys- Some do, some don't. Personally, your attempts at it usually leave me ROTFL! (But then I have a very low-brow sense of humor)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I've been chuckling too. So long as the humor is kept civil I enjoy it.

  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    Question: which Subie is the biggest in terms of cargo room? I see these things on the road all the time and they look just like huge SUVs, only with a lower ground clearance. Very curious.
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    I am currently owned the Nordic White Santa Fe LX 4/AWD plus Traction Control and ABS. These are the stuffs that I like about the Santa Fe:
    Good Crash Test result, Shiftronic Gear ride Automatic and/or Manual, Heated Seats, Power Door Lock & Mirror, Smooth Ride, Comfortable Roomy Space, Hidden Cargo Bin in the Trunk as well as under the front passenger seat, Rear Trunk Window open independent with the wiper-washer-tinted-defroster, Defroster outside mirrors, Rear top LED tailgate brake light built inside window, 2 more deflectors rear bumper lights which can be made into brake lights for less than $20, rear seats center arm rest, 4 total cupholders, each rear doors can hold 1-liter bottle, nice overhead console box, pretension seatbelts system, cruise control, electrochomic rearview mirror, remote keyless entry, cargo net & tie-down hooks, chrome/stainless steel protective scuff plates, Contrasting bodyside cladding, First Aid Kit, secret transmission oil cooler, tinted windows, antenna built in window, 4WD discs brake & power brake, ABS, Traction Control, beautiful fog lights layout, hood curve on side make it easy to view, comfortable leather seats-steering wheel-shift knob, Rear license Plate light, nice rear trunk door handle, Child Seat Anchors, smooth ride, nice interior and exterior look, best warranty, Excellent price, and so much aftermarket products available.
    With the aftermarket available products which I have added the wood dash, front bumper guard, side steps, rear bumper guard, sport roof rack, OEM hood deflector, OEM mud guard, window visor, chrome petal cover, Audio & Video Stereo Upgrade with 8 discs Video CD changer, OEM rear deflector, fender flares, strut bar, blue illuminated headlight bulbs, cargo liner, and OEM cargo organizer. So much more fun stuffs available at www.hdkautosport.com and nice price on OEM products available at www.tischerhyundai.com.

    Side Airbags, Power Seats and Sun-Moonroof was not available on the Santa Fe. However, I am happy that my Santa Fe does not have a sun/moonroof because I don't use it otherwise I can add it. I don't like power seats because it is hard to upgrade stereo system to much power wires and remove seats problem. Side airbags option will be available in next year model. Even without the side airbags, the car still have good crash test rating...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Tony: IMO they are not huge, but the Outback is the biggest. It's on the Legacy platform, basically a mid-sizer.

    The Forester is based on the previous Impreza, with a .5" wheel base stretch, so it's still a compact. It has a nice, function-over-form square shape to the back, so cargo room is good, particularly for tall cargo.

    Consumer Reports measures to see the biggest box they can slide inside and still close the hatch, and the Forester scores very well in this "usable space" test:

    Tracker 28 cubic feet
    CR-V 31
    Rodeo 39.5
    Cherokee 36.5
    Sportage 30
    XTerra 43.5
    Forester 35.5

    So you can see it beats most of the small guys, yet it's short wheelbase and light weight make it relatively peppy and manueverable.

    I have hauled a large capacity clothes washer in the box and still been able to close the hatch. Anything bigger goes on the roof rack (up to 150 lbs, and very sturdy). It does the job for me.

  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    Must be the Outback I saw then. I wasn't implying that it was in the "large" SUV class, but when you just look at the cargo area and ignore the vehicle height, you'd swear you were looking at a mid-size "SUV". I can see how these things would be very versatile.

    Time to head home and get ready for "Survivor"
  • mudpuddlemudpuddle Member Posts: 26
    Very interesting sales numbers for April....While auto industry sales as a whole were down 7 % from last year in the month of April, Hyundai sales in April were 26133 units, up 24 % from last year. Subaru sold 14163 in April, up 11.7 % and Mazda sold 21860, up 2.9 %. Hyundai can now target Mitsubishi which sold 26601 in April and VW which sold 29226. In terms of advertising dollars, I think we all know that Subaru, Mitsubishi, and VW out spend Mazda and Hyundai. Will the Hyundai warranty eventually force others manufacturers to lengthen their warranties ???? I hope so, we'll all benefit from that move.
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