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Suzuki Grand Vitara vs Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape vs Saturn

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    guyfguyf Member Posts: 456
    Do not generalize my friend, it's not all SF owners who like to get high on exhaust fumes.

    Humm...Structural integrity of the tailgate; that's an interesting concept. What is that supposed to do when it is attached to the structure of the vehicle only with 2 hinges and a catch???

    When you make fun of others you have to watch what you write.

    Guy
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    curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    Yeah, you can open either the tailgate or just the rear window on the Tribute. However, instead of driving with my tailgate window or entire tailgate open, I just open my fully retractable moon roof (I also run the AC at the same time, Miami is HOT).
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    tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    I don't make fun of others, most folks are doing it fine all by themselves without any help from me image
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Bill- Peter Duffy (the author from your link) rated the SUV as the 4th ugliest vehicle on the road. While I wouldn't go that far I do agree with his statement regarding most SUVs being designed to look like "a boulder on wheels". I also liked his bit describing the automakers' tendency "to bulk it up with extra sheet-metal flares and flounces". Boy, I'm glad you're the one who posted that link. :-)

    -Frank P.
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Juice- To get a manual trans Liberty you have to settle for the dinky 4-cyl engine. Argh!!!!! Hopefully both Jeep and Subaru will wise up and offer a 5-speed/6-cyl option next year.

    -Frank P.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My dad's Olds Custom Cruiser wagon had a versatile tail gate like that. Pushrod V8, live axle rear - sounds like some newer SUVs, minus the 4WD. Pretty amusing.

    The new Explorer went a step further and has big window that opens a bit lower than usual. It's a good idea, so long as it's designed well and does not rattle.

    -juice
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    sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    The funny part is, your dad's Olds probably rode better, had better accelleration, and equal gas mileage.

    I used to work in a nursery summers in college, and the old wagons beat the minivans and suvs every time for capacity. One could throw probably 8 bushes in there, to the 4 or 6 in the mini or suv. PLUS, you could slide a sheet of plywood or sheetrock between the wheels at the local builder supply store! Try that in an SUV!!!!!

    Where is that "U" now????
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Which new SUV got recalled recently for the retractable rear glass mechanism failing? Was it the 02 Exploder or the Bravada?

    -Frank P.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That Olds had a floaty ride, and the tracking was awful. The alignment was never quite right I guess. About 14mpg if I recall.

    Though it did have some nice features. Three rows of seats, and the back two folded completely flat and made an excellent bed.

    Kind of funny that SUVs are getting 3 rows only now.

    -juice
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Ford recalls 56,652 Explorer cars due to faulty rear door glass fixing.

    Steve
    Host
    Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Thanks Steve. I knew both models were recalled, just couldn't remember which was which. After so many recalls, they start to all blend together! :-)

    -Frank P.
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    billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    Yes, I passed by a Tribute yesterday, I saw the tailgate window can be open, but I think the window is heavier & I don't know what angle of inclination when it fully opens.
    Do Anyone know?
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    portugueseportuguese Member Posts: 1
    Santa Fe in Europe,

    "That's why we have nice large sunroofs (feels like a convertible) and automatic climate control ;-)"

    The Santa Fe model in Portugal comes "out-of-box":
    - Electric sunroof
    - Automatic climate control
    - Side air bags
    - almost all of the others features that Lexus owners have by paying two times more (even paying twice no hatch window).

    So Tony, maybe this time you buy your Lexus before Santa Fe model arrive to the market. But you can always get rid of it, and go for Santa Fe.
    I have not see any of yours sarcastic comments on the fact that Santa Fe ranks number one on the 40 mhp crash tests !!!!!!

    We Santa Fe happy and satisfied owners ("The Hyundai Santa Fe sport utility vehicle is the top-rated vehicle in the Compact SUV Segment in AutoPacific's 2001 Vehicle Satisfaction Index."), understand your frustration for spending all that many for the same features. So if is a good therapy for you, fell free to post (with the $$$$$ you spend one the Lexus this is cheaper then going to the doctor).

    About the Mazda Tribute, they are not for sale in Portugal so no comments.

    The Subaru Forester for ME it's ugly (specially the back side), but from what I have read and see, should be a very good car.

    Boa noite, from Portugal
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    curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    Heavier glass on the Tribute. So that is why it gets less gas mileage then the Santa Fe.

    Actually, I don't know the weight of the glass or the tailgate on the Tribute because both are operated by there own set of hydraulic lifts (that is the best way I can describe them, I know they are not lifts). You see once I pop open the window or the tailgate, they open by them selves.
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    billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    Did u guy read the "FIRE" under the RX300 hood story here in Edmund Lexus RX300 Forum jmalik1 "Lexus RX300" Apr 30, 2001 7:44am, is so funny that Lexus has to serve its owner so well after the accident try to cover up the whole story but unfortunately the owner still posted the story, u can tell how disappointing Lexus was!!!
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    tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    I have no problem with the SF, just the folks who can't debate or communicate in a logical fashion. My wife and I looked at it last fall when shopping for a SUV and thought it was nice for the price range. But it didn't have enough power for us and lacked certain safety features (my wife's priority) and certain luxury features (my priority). We also looked at the Tribute/Escape and ruled it out for similiar reasons.

    Then we moved up in price range and looked at the new Pathfinder (we had already leased one) and Jeep GC Limited. Again, each one had certain features which were great, but neither had a good compromise of all the features we wanted.

    Going up further in price range we finally found vehicles that had the things we wanted in terms of the best active/passive safety systems, great performance and handling, luxury features, and proven quality and customer service. Our choice came down to the MB ML320 and the Lexus RX300. For us, the RX was the best value.

    Now I've just made a great effort to try to objectively and logically explain to you my choice in selecting my family's latest vehicle. The problem with a lot of folks here is that they don't recognize the fact that one person's criteria for a vehicle may be different than someone else's. If your criteria is getting a decent SUV for under $25k, then yes, the Santa Fe is a good choice. If your criteria is getting one of the safest SUVs made, proven reliability/quality, luxury, and outstanding customer service, then the RX300 is a good choice. Please also understand that neither one of these vehicles is the end-all, be-all when it comes to SUVs, there are other vehicles in this market segment which do particular things better than either one of them. For example, if you wanted one of the best off-road capable vehicles for around $30k, then the Jeep GC becomes a good choice. Every vehicle has different attributes.

    As far as the SF "ranks number one on the 40 mhp crash tests" is a misleading statement. It ranked the best out of the other vehicles tested along with it, but still did not receive the IIHS "Recommendation." The RX300 did in fact receive the IIHS Recommendation.

    I sleep better at night knowing this. Of course, your mileage may vary.
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    curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    A perfect car has never been made. I do not own a Lexus, yeah I am a proud Tribute owner, however, I would be careful talking about the reliability of a Lexus when you are driving a Hyundai. Yes, the Santa Fe may be a great car, but, let's not forget the past track records for these two companies.
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    tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    Of course, you just made a very logical point. Hung & Tung's game here is not to make logical points but to prove to the world that the Santa Fe is somehow magically the end-all, be-all of SUVs.

    Why, I have no idea.
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    billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    Nobody says you Lexus RX300 is not a good car, nobody says it is unsafe, U are very safe at nite, 'cause u are not sleeping inside your Lexus, but if your car park on the road overnite, then might be not very safe, u will worry hit&run, being stolen..etc.

    U are not alone though, in my son school, there are usually about 10+ Lexus meet everyday to pick up their sons, this car already look so boreing to every student & their parents, most are driven by those unemploy or nothing to do Asian's wifes(They are rich & is a very good revenue sources for Lexus!).

    Enjoy your very expensive Mini SUV (about the size of SF!)... in the long run .... hope the "fire under the Lexus RX300's hood" would happen again!
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    tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    Bill, you once again have not made a "point". You offered your opinion, and nothing more. Maybe you'll begin to understand why folks complain about your long, tedious messages.

    In terms of your opinion of the RX "being boring", I didn't buy it to win any popularity contests or to impress anyone. I bought it so that I could protect my family as best I could in case of a car accident.

    Let everyone know when you are ready to have a logical and objective (rather than subjective) discussion. Please look up any words you don't understand, start with "rationalization", as applied to the field of psychology.
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    billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    Got you! Hope you don't feel offend of my post, I just try to compare what people think about your & my cars. Even with one year studies in auto machanic (BC Institute of Technology) I still don't really think I know too much about modern auto mechanic. That why I don't what to discuss too many technical terms.

    Old Chinese sayings, "If both of u don't fight in the past, u both won't become a good friends!"! (Look at US & Japan & Germany..)

    U think I don't know English! Ha Ha Ha ha.......
    I read English Literatures.....I graduated with Honour degree in Canadian University.... I don't have to look up any words u thought I don't understand, whereas u should apply "Rationalization" to yourself!
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Oops, I try to complement Ford and their quality betrays me yet again (I've owned two).

    Alex: pena que voce nao gosta do Forester! No Brasil ele faz muito sucesso!

    -juice
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    drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    Welcome portugese! Your first post ever in Town Hall, congrats! I wonder where Hung is?


    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
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    hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    I have to drive my daughter for the doctor check-up! You know how kid/baby are? This is the type of daily check-up.

    I did NOT get a chance to answer and explain thing in here because some of it already done by Bill-Tung. Other I can do but I don't want everyone to tight up with the argument. I have to keep it cool down otherwise it will get worse in this topic.
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    losthat1losthat1 Member Posts: 93
    As a psychology professor I think I fully understand Freud's defense mechanism of rationalization. What I don't understand is why you take the time and effort to "spy" on this board from the RX forum. You ridicule certain participants including subtle ethnic slurs. Why don't you go back to the RX forum and stay there with those who contribute there. This is not a forum for comparing the RX to the Santa Fe, Tribute or Forrester. You are the weakest link-goodbye!
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    tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    You're right, it's not about discussing the RX, but if someone else brings it (the RX) up first then the debate is wide open. And unlike other folks, I enjoy debating the facts of automobiles, rather than offering useless anecdotal evidence. And if someone says something unfavorable about the kind of car I drive I don't get defensive and try to "protect" it's good name. It's a piece of sheetmetal afterall and the reasons I bought that particular piece of sheetmetal might not be same as someone else's.

    "Spying"? Are we feeling insecure? Last time I checked these discussions were not private and closed. Unless these are "private" clubs, I'm a firm believer in free speech and would even give my life to defend your right to it.

    Have fun.
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    these forums are not just "fan clubs." They are are open discussions where the good, the bad, and the ugly are discussed.

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, and as proof, you'll recall we were just talking about the Aztec...

    :o)

    I amuse myself some times.

    -juice
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    jericho_avejericho_ave Member Posts: 37
    i like the way you put it that in here we talk about the good, the bad and the ugly.....

    because after all.... this forum is called...

    Santa Fe (good) vs. Tribute (bad) vs. Subaru Forrester (ugly)...

    I know most of you are smiling now..... or not...

    :)

    happy SF owner here...
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Forrester with two Rs is the author. Forester with one R is the Subaru.

    The beauty of the Subaru is in it's function over form design. Not the flared nostrils of an angry Pikachu!

    -juice
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    tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    ...I don't get defensive about anything, but you guys are making fun of one of my all time favorite spaghetti westerns and Clint Eastwood movies.

    :-)
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    image


    OK, imagine it with a grimace on its face, see what I mean? ;-)


    -juice

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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I'm sorry I started this... <:>

    Bob
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    drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    Uh, the topic title was made at random in no particular order. Not only this, but they can be swapped around like so (I've added the Escape to the title too) ;-).


    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
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    guyfguyf Member Posts: 456
    It does!

    Guy
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    curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    which one was pikachu. You know I could have lived the rest of my life just as happy with out knowing, thanks Juice.
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Wow Juice, I think you got something there. Now envision an angry Pikachu with front and rear bumper guards etc and you'll have exactly what Hung's Santa Fe looks like :(o)

    (Hung- just kidding!)

    -Frank P.
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    jericho_avejericho_ave Member Posts: 37
    first of, I knew the spelling on the For(r)ester was wrong and had 30 mins to change it but didn't bother. I knew that someone would point it out, but after all of hung's postings. I thought you guys would be used to such things by now.... ;)
    any way, I didn't mean to rattle the forum's title, I guess we're not talking about the good the bad and the ugly anymore...
    let's talk about these SUVs then and help other consumers on their decision making....
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Anyone else see this week's Autoweek?

    Two things caught my attention. First, the HKS Impreza project, which is currently making 260hp with the same basic engine as the Forester. Hmm, that would be pretty tasty, no? Perhaps the quickest SUV in the world?

    2nd was the Jeep Liberty article. Jeep will offer a V6 with a 5 speed, but not with full time 4WD. For that you must get an automatic.

    So I still see an opportunity for the first AWD V6 5 speed in the class.

    -juice
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Uh Juice, don't you mean 6 "cylinder" 5 speed? ;-)

    -Frank P.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    ...though technically I think the Forester will get a turbo instead of the boxer 6.

    Jeep has archived the straight 6, so now the Santa Fe, Escape/Tribute, and Liberty will compete with V6s.

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I just mentioned the same thing&#151;no full-time 4WD w/5-speed, over in the Liberty forum the other day.

    To the best of my knowledge, Jeep has never offered that combo. But then again, Jeep has never had to compete with the Forester, etc., before. I think it's going to hurt Jeep not to have that Select-Trac/5-speed combo. Also, ABS is optional on ALL Libertys. Major marketing errors, IMHO.

    Bob
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Either the Forester or the Santa Fe would really benefit from getting the Liberty's new V6. It puts out 210 hp @ 5000 rpm and 235 ft-lbs of torque @ 4000 rpm.

    Although both Edmund's and the Official Jeep site say the 5-speed is available with the V6, neither site allows you to select said configuration. And as Bob said, the full-time 4WD is definitely only available with the auto.

    -Frank P.
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    sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    I don't really care if it has ABS. I guess in a snowstorm on a curvy road it might be nice, but otherwise a waste of money, added weight and complexity, plus it increases breaking distance.
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    curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    I got this link in the Escape/Tribute problem page from Escape4x4. I thought it might be of interest here as I am not sure all here read that forum also.


    JD Power's initial quality study from last year, I don't know if a newer one has been released, maybe someone can find one.


    Enjoy: http://www.autonews.com/html/main/stories/power15.htm

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    sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    Santa Fe is in here. The trib/esc and forester are not.

    VERY interesting all of a sudden.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Without ABS, you could use threshold braking, and then release the pedal when one wheel locks up. But that's the catch - you effectively get the braking power from the tire with the least grip, otherwise you skid. So in effect it's least-common-denominator braking.

    The point is you have one pedal controlling all four individual brakes, while all four tires have different levels of grip. You'd need four brake pedals to be able to modulate the brakes like ABS does.

    That plus you can brake around a curve and maintain steering control. Well tuned (which is key) ABS reduces stopping distances.

    We had fun with this at Edmunds Live. Half the vehicles had ABS, and half did not. They had a braking test, and in every case without ABS under emergency braking, you'd get at least a little sideways. The ones with ABS stopped straight.

    -juice
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    hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Today SUV:
    Tday Suv
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's still mostly cosmetic. Heck, I have custom alloy rims, a moonroof, and a DVD player in mine already.

    They do mention a possible supercharger in the future, and that could make things really interesting, along with the cat-back and intake.

    -juice
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    billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    billtung "Hyundai Santa Fe vs Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute" May 15, 2001 2:37am

    Hey man! 15,500km in 6 months w/o any major problem, up & down the deepest slope in the BC snowy mountains, cruising between 120-180km/hr in highway all the time in highway, fuel consumption as good as 10.8 L/100km, still saw people checked out/surround my SF everyday after I parked my SF in parking lots & returned after delivery flowers.

    Sorry! still can't find any negative thing about SF to mention!

    Very satisfy with SF performance, glad to see I spend less money to enjoy such a great delivery SUV while other spending more money to drive a poorer/similar quality/old-fashion/less safety SUV!

    For on road driving (not race track/off-road), SF is well too powerful enough for cruising & up mountains, u guys want 3 litres+ engine are silly, my 5.9L Durango(Very powerful!) average 26.8 L/100km on city driving!!! Want one?

    Pls do not talk rock in here, there is no chance for the fastest SUV to performance in nowaday city road (not highway) without getting speeding tickets!
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