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1965 Mustang Value
Hey out there. I need a little help. I purchased a 1965 Mustang, 289 V8 automatic w/ps & pb. New paint job w/4-5 chips, new wheels, 290K on motor (however not sure right now if orginal motor) I don't have possession of it but paid TOP dollar for it on a USED car lot. 12.5K to be exact. And in doing my research a little late I discovered that I just may have paid TOO much and am quite upset about it. I also discovered that the right blinker doesn't operator and the there were no speakers for the radio (they said sounded great)... After 3 days of dinking around with these clowns at the dealership the day I THOUGHT I was bringing it home to my son saw white smoke coming out the tail pipe. Which they said was the distributor was misfiring. Others have said blown head gasket and/or carborator problems.. Anyways, I traded my 68 and only received 4k for mine! And you know what mine ran better after all the crap these guys put me through. At this time they still have the car. My pink was signed over to them but I have mine! Anyways, what do you think I could do? What is a fair price? For BOTH really. Knowing this is a 40 yr. old car doesn't the #'s matter for price as well? What can I do to get out of the contract if I can't make them bring the price down to a FAIR and REASONABLE cost. Please help. Thanks Cindi.
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This is really an issue for an attorney. I'm not one, but my opinion is that the only way you can break this contract is that if you can prove some kind of misrepresentation or fraud....otherwise "buyer beware" is the rule.
A dealer can sell a car for whatever price he wants, as long as he doesn't misrepresent the merchandise as something it is not. If he/she TOLD you it was the original engine and it wasn't, or told you it was completely rebuilt last week and it wasn't, then you have something. But if they just said "nice car" and "runs like a top" that isn't misrepresentation, that's just "puffery" as they say---salesmanship.
So my opinion is that you can't build a case just because the price was above market value. That was your job to know that. But you can build a case (perhaps) on misrepresentation.
Of course, lawyers are expensive so you may wish to first visit your local District Attorney's office and see what they can offer you in terms of Consumer Protection Services of some sort. You may also consider Small Claims Court, but that often limits the amount of damage you can sue for, and I doubt it will be as high as the price of the car.
Best thing to do is not panic, and get all your facts straight. If you accuse them of selling you a car with a bad head gasket and all it is, is a bad spark plug, then you're not going to look credible.
At the very worst, you can stick with the car and fix it up. Prices are going up on these and maybe in a few years it will be worth what you paid for it.
Did you mean you traded a 68 Mustang? I would have kept it. I've owned both a 65 2+2 and a 69 Mach 1. In 65 a Mustang was basically (in most cases) a glorified Falcon. By 68 they were really starting to come into their own.
Good luck getting satisfaction. You signed a contract and signed over your trade. I don't know what the laws are in the state you live in, but in most it's a legal and binding contract when signed. You may have a case if it was mis-represented, but you're probably going to need legal help to sort it all out.
So, he had it delivered up here to Maryland, and it ran for about a week. I never even got to see the thing. It died, and my buddy took it to his mechanic, who went over it, and found that it basically needed a whole new engine. It had been run without antifreeze, and the cooling passages were all rusted/gunked up. It was springing leaks here and there. Needed a new radiator. Had sheetmetal rivited where the floorboards had been, and not too well, either. For a car that supposedly needed "nothing", I think this car ended up needing, in addition to a new engine and floorboards, about $3,000 in other odds and ends.
My friend did manage to get them to take the car back, but it was a fight in doing so. It made the local newspapers around here, as well. In this case though, I think the puffery and "salesmanship" was borderline gross misrepresentation, so my buddy probably had a fairly good case.
Oh, and at the same time as he bought the Charger, he also bought a 1973 or so Benz 450SL from them. I think it actually arrived before the Charger. It was in much better shape than the Charger, but then started having problems, and he unloaded it a couple years later for something like $7K, less than half of what he paid for it.
Sales for classic Mustangs, just like many other makes, are rampant with fraud. A previous neighbor of mine bought what he thought was a 68 California Special, but I pointed out to him that the VIN was wrong and it was a regular model that had been modified. That happens a lot.
You need to do your homework before jumping in to something like this. A car club is a good place to start, or even a car show. Here in Southern California there's huge Ford car shows every year and there's always hundreds of Mustangs, many for sale. Also, there's all the advice you would ever need.
Even though I'm not into Mustangs anymore, my brother in law has a 64.5 first edition and he usually drags me along to a couple of shows a year.
Had the car been running well and was just "overpriced", I doubt this happy ending would have occurred.
Okay, next time let's do our homework!
One thing you have to remember about '65 Mustangs, or the "early" Mustangs, is that so many of them have been all screwed up by previous owners---most of the coupes fell into the hands of people who paid little for them and thus could not take care of them---so over the years, they were passed hand to hand with one botch after another to the mechanicals. Very often the convertibles and fastbacks led a much happier life with appreciative owners, while the poor coupes ended up as junkyard dogs chained to a post.
Some Typical Early Mustang Issues:
1. Rust in the rear clip...the trunks rust out.
2. Stretched timing chains...engine runs but is weak and sucks gas.
3. Bad ball joints
IMO, with an old Mustang, it's always better to buy one with a tight clean body and a few mechanical issues (they are so simple to fix) than any old coupe with questionable cosmetics....rust, bondo, etc., even if it runs well.
Having owned a 66 Stang for over 40 years, one of the first things I recommend is you install a Pertronix Ignition in the distributor. It is the best thing I ever did to my Stang and my 302 Sea Ray. Each one of mine cost $59.95 and it took only a few minutes to install.
Recommend you also subscribe to "Mustang Monthly" as it is worth the price for the knowledge you'll receive. "Mustang Times" is a publication of Mustang Club of America. Join that organization too, just for the magazine.
http://motors.search.ebay.com/1966_Mustang_W0QQcatrefZC1QQfclZ3QQfromZR10QQfsooZ- 2QQfsopZ3QQsacatZ6236QQsamcmZ6001
The above site will get you EBAY's sight for 66's, but you can modify that for the 65 when you get there.
Cared for Vintage Mustangs are increasing in value all the time. I turned down 25k for mine last Summer.
Old cars don't increase in "value" unless you do something to them...if you leave them alone, all they are doing is increasing in "price", which is different. No value is added, so this increase in price is pure speculation and subject to collapse at any time.
Having said that, if you buy, or own, the best quality, it will be most resistant to a drop in value (or price I mean).
Why would you feel that would be so important?
My Mustangs always ran just find with the old points and condensors. I would change them once in awhile but that sure wasn't a big deal.
I wouldn't do this to a K code Mustang though, as they use a special dual-point Mallory system and you should keep that stock.
If points caused problems I might feel differently but they really don't. I think one modification leads to another and pretty soon the cars can be pretty "mickey moused" up.
But, that's me. I know others feel that modifications make the car better somehow.
I know certain modifications make a car safer like seat belts and I have no problem with that.
I don't like it when people convert drum brakes to discs and replace generators with alternators although I suppose they could be changed back.
It does have a generator too...I remember back when I was driving it daily, it was getting really fussy in damp weather...the MB specialist I knew said to get an electronic setup...and it solved the problem.
I figure with the fintail, a little un-originality doesn't hurt, it's an unrestored 43 year old car. It's not a high dollar or demand car, nobody will notice...people rarely ask to see under the hood.
I owned an early 1965. It was the 338th one built. It had the Oginianl Edition Mustang plaque on the dash with the owner's name. 260 V-8.
Wow, Ford was really ahead of the curve there! I'm sure Pontiac converted to alternators eons before, but my '76 LeMans still has a light on it that says "GEN"! It also has this AC/DC-looking lightning bolt graphic on it. I think my '67 Catalina says "AMPS" though, although in that car it's a gauge and not an idiot light.
So when the Mustang went to an alternator, what did they replace the GEN light with? AMPS? BATT? ALT? That's what I was getting at, that Ford would actually make the effort to CHANGE the GEN light as soon as they went to an alternator, whereas GM held onto the GEN well into the 70's!
I think Chrysler Corp. was first with the alternator in 1961, right? or 60? I ferget.
The alternator was a good thing. Generators don't charge very well at slow idle, especially at night or with AC on.
Truthfully though, my '68 Dart would do the same thing, just not as bad. And sometimes, in the mornings, if I have the lights on and the heater/defrost going full blast, my '79 NYer's amp gauge will go just enough to the discharge side to make the idiot light come on. One thing that impresses me about that car is that, with all the cost cutting that went on in the late 70's, they actually went through the effort to make full gauges AND idiot lights standard on those cars. Of course, sometimes that can cause problems, like when the temp gauge reads normal but the idiot light comes on! At first I was worried about which one I should believe, until I noticed that sometimes the idiot light would come on at times when it couldn't possibly be too hot, like when first starting off. Oddly, my departed 1979 Newport occasionally did the same thing. So I guess that must make it a "feature" :P
Nothing moe than a glorified Falcon!
The Falcon, Corvair and Valiants were the first of the new "Compact Cars".
The Valiants were, by far, the best of that bunch!
I agree, because in addition to the alternator, in place of a generator, the Valiant had an excellent 3-speed automatic, versus 2-speeds for the Falcon and Corvair, handled far better and was more rugged than the other two. The Corvair was interesting and the Falcon was a decent value, but the Valiant, while priced a little higher than the others, was worth the modest additional amount that it cost. Too bad none of the three offered a decent 4-speed manual (5-speeds came later even on European cars).
The weakest part of those cars were the front ends. They were hard on ball joints and tie rod ends but so were the Falcons.
The Corvair was the *potentially* most interesting and technically advanced car, but it was, and remained, seriously under-developed due to the usual GM habit of poking its own eyes out and complaining that it had been blinded by the government or foreigners.
The Valiant was the first serious attempt to make a modern car in America for the world as it was then emerging--by that I mean the engineers got at least equal time with the stylists.
Don't feel bad about the price, fix it up and be happy with it, it's a great car. About the white smoke, I think it will disappear after it worms up. The engine is made for leaded gas and I don't know how much difference that makes?
How much it is worth is hard to tell, you could pay a few thousand more or maybe less but it was set at the time of purchase. In a way it is like stocks on the market. :confuse:
Yes, discs are better. No question about it. No argument there.
But the drums work just fine too! I have owned at least four 1965-1966 Mustangs and a 1968. They all had drums and they all stopped just fine even under emergency situations.
As long as things are up to snuff they are more than sufficient.
Case 2 - Get one for junior to have a 'neat' car for school, drums no good.
Drums were not so much of a problem when everyone had them, but now, with everyone else having discs/ABS, I'd hate to be driving drums when the guy in front of me stands on his brakes!
YES, discs are better but they don't actually stop you THAT much faster.
Yes, if you overheat them they will fade. It takes a LOT to make that happen however.
Don't get me wrong. Given a choice I would rather have discs. To go to the trouble of changing a drum car to discs, it just wouldn't be worth it for me.
I wouldn't drive an old car like I do my modern ones.
Link to '65 Mustang
Then click the 'completed listings' box on the left, then click 'show items'. Right now there are about 190 listings there. You need an ebay account to look at them. What options does your dad's Mustang have? What shape is it in? There's a huge variation, depending on these two things.
If you being asked by the courts, you'd best get an appraisal on it and submit that. If you are in California area I can point you to someone reliable.
The problem with doing it yourself is that you could be way off and possibly not do yourself a service tax-wise, etc.
BUT...if the courts will allow you to do it yourself, we can coach you to an accurate value if you give us the proper information in detail.
First you have to GRADE the car, using this type of guide:
http://manheimgold.com/value_faq.html
THEN you have to list:
body type (coupe, convertible, fastback)
Then engine size (260 V8, 289 V8, 289V8w/271HP K code engine, or 6 cylinder engine)
Then tranmission: automatic, 3-speed manual or 4-speed manual
Then color
Then whether there is rust or body damage
With all that we could probably zero right in on it for you.