Since Drew only has time to compete for 00 + 50 posts and go to Christmas Parties...can you describe what you saw in Popular Mechanics Spy Photo of the 2002 ML...does it mimic what has already been posted at:
Nothing wrong with a little humor and competition. I for one, think this board is extremely informative, and feel that the main contributors have the right to play a little. It's a small price to pay for their knowledge.
Don't be over concerned about the "quality" issues of the ML, the new models are great. I own a 99 ML430 and have had only a few issues not a single one was related to reliability.
I personally prefer the German vs. Japanese engineering. I also like the fact that the ML is built on a true Frame and is very substantial should you ever take it off road..this also contributes to saftey.
I don't believe the RX has ESP and this is worth considering...check the link below for more info on ESP =>
I have always compared the ML more with the LX470 which is a better comparison feature for feature. The RX is more in line with a SAV which may suit your needs fine.
The ML has a 5 speed automatic vs. a 4 speed on the RX...also both models have optional GPS systems but the ML is upgradable to such and I'm not sure the RX is..you might know this. Tow capacity is 5000 lbs. on the ML and only 3500 lbs. on the RX...but this again really relates to the ML being a true SUV and the RX being more of a luxury all road wagon...see what your needs are now or may be in the future...you'll have a bit more options with the ML in this regard. The ML has 8.4 inches ground clearance vs. 7.7 inches of the RX..there is a bit more leg and shoulder room in the rear seat of the ML...
Last I think the ML has a better permanent AWD system 4ETS...you always have equal power to each of the 4 wheels until traction is compromised and then 4ETS kicks in to give the wheels with more traction more power.
I personal think it is a bargain that the ML is priced the same as an RX this makes the decision even easier for me...more capability with more safety makes it a my decision.
Drew (aling) is even more informative, helpful, and knowledgeable on this topic...he also keeps up with the other forums so hopefully he will respond with more ML/RX info. to help you solidify your decision.
Good Luck - hope you choose the ML we'd love to have you join our forum on a regular basis!
I agree with a "little" fun...it started out with a little fun a few months ago and now has become a game for a few of the posters (now competing for "50" as well as the "00' posts)...
I think it is fine if you want to compete and then be done with it - what is annoying is when others are asking questions and are not getting answers perhaps due to more concern being placed on the competition rather than the topic at hand. For example, I never had to chime in and answer questions but now find I need to because posters are not getting answers..this is very strange because Drew ALWAYS answers (His answers are always detailed and much better than mine)... I don't know for sure if this is due to the competition or rather Drew is tired of answering the same old questions...It certainly is not Drews sole responsibility to answer the forum questions it is just a subtile change I've noticed.
I enjoy Drew and others informative posts and knowledge, if we have to live with the excessive posts regarding competition I'll live with it. I would just would like to go on record that we should "try" to keep this to a minimum...don't stop it just keep it down to two or so posts when possible. Perhaps just going for the millennium "00" post is better for this and also more of a true challenge.
Sorry for being the old maid: ) It's that time of the month : )
:-) Was busy in my garage putting on some door edge guards on the ML. Also had to R&R the extra chrome I added on the door handles because it was coming off.
The good news is that the gray door edge guards that Trim brite sells matches the Brilliant Silver paint extremely well. They were CDN$3.99 per pack of two and I used 3 packs (have to return the one extra pack) for all 4 doors. They're not body colour coded, but very subtle. I was considering chrome trim, but I thought that it would've been too flashy. FWIW, MB Canada does not have the (rather expensive, IMHO) body coloured accessory metal door edge guards that MBUSA has.
The bad news is that while making some last step alterations using a level to align the rear door guard on the left rear door with the front door's guard, I accidentally wacked a tiny (1/2 mm) piece of paint off the door with the large scissors. It has now been touched up, of course.
In any case, I'll be probably be installing the Parkpilot reverse warning system tomorrow, as well as the chrome exhaust tip if I have enough time. I haven't had much luck finding a 35mm hole saw for the sensors in the bumper. Everything is in imperial, not metric. Grrr...a trip to Sears is in order. Hope they have it there!
Check your e-mail I think there is a picture from Popular Mechanics January edition showing a spy shot of a 2002 ML...Please look and post if possible.
thor3: The 2001 RX has ESP. They finally figured out that they should add it :-) I've also heard various comments that it is not as floaty as previous models.
Drew: Weren't you the one who said dirt gets under the door edge guards and causes rust after a while?
I was just about to post it...was uploading it to Photopoint. It's similar to the picture at the MB Enthusiast site, just a different angle. Note the slightly different (blockier) front bumper. Also note the wider bumper grill opening, as well as the two cutouts at the lower portion of the bumper (foglamp cutouts perhaps, or brushguard attachment points??).
No, I don't think it was me. However, there is not much of a gap for dirt to get the guard since it is glued onto the door. It is possible to flush the guard out with water from the top if necessary.
I noticed a very very slight reduction in wind noise around the doors (radio was off). I wonder if this was just psychological. It does kind of make sense since there are smaller gaps around the doors now.
Yes, from what I understand and have experienced, ESP does not require throttle or brake activation in order to activate. However, it will word regardless of whether you have your foot on the throttle pedal or the brake pedal. Even with ESP turned off via the switch, the brake-only portion of the system is still active and can assist to a certain extent.
The ML, and all new MB vehicles AFAIK, have 4 sensor, 4 channel ABS. This means that the computer can modulate one brake without the other. In 4 sensor, 3 channel systems (2 channels/2 sensors for the front wheels, and 2 sensors/1 channel for the rear wheels), when one rear wheel locks up, the ABS has to modulate both rear wheels. This means longer stopping distances and less control.
BTW, keep in mind that as steering input increases, ABS effectiveness decreases. So, for the shortest stops, you want to keep the steering wheel steady. However, short stopping distances are not always the priority; such as when you're braking and turning to avoid an object on the road.
The picture is clearer in showing what is probably the true 2002 bumper config. the earlier photo had some camouflage on it that reduced the bumper opening to look rather small...this one shows a more streamlined opening with what looks like fog/driving lights in the bumper.
I'm curious about the earlier "ML500" rumor...not mentioned in this spy article...only the 4.0L V8 Diesel was mentioned.
ken - thanks for the RX "ESP" update...I still think the ML is a much more capable SUV. Not everybody needs an SUV though!
You can't see it in this picture, but the receiver appears to have been sacrificed. The hitch seems to be of the Draw-tite variety. Seems like the MB OEM hitch (such as what Robert has) may be stronger.
The side steps survived last winter with no problems. No rust anywhere as far as I can tell. I'll let you know how it goes this winter; I don't anticipate any issues.
Congrats on the ML! I recommend that you check your cold tire pressure to make sure that it is set at 29psi. Many people have had theirs at much higher settings since the dealerships did not deflate them after transport.
As for the high beam switch, it's a MB thing, just like the cruise control position (which I like a lot). As Ken said, push the stalk away from you to permanently activate the high beams (low beam bulbs also stay on BTW).
The last time I checked, the M-class topic was at the top (by a 40 post margin) of the Hot topics list. :-)
Ken initially ordered a '00 ML320 with the M4 package. However, there was some slight damage during transport, and he decided to wait for the '01 model instead. Of course, it wasn't until months later that we found out that the M4 package was cancelled for the '01 US models. It is, however, still available in Canada as seperate options. By seperate I mean we can buy the side runners without the M4 brushguard (and vice versa).
Thanks for the picture. It's much appreciated and I posted above in an earlier post as you probably already noticed.
Yikes, you might have slid onto some ice as well. Since ice has almost no friction (co-efficient of 0.01 or something like that), that could explain how you managed to get from one end of the lot to the other so rapidly! How about sticking to the frozen lake for that next time :-)
With the "ESP off" switch activated, the computer still maintains 20% control (brakes only, no throttle reduction) so you would've gone truly out of control if there was a 100% off switch! But consider it a learning experience. See, you've already learnt not to touch that switch unless under special circumstances (off-roading/deep snow/sand).
You got pics of these door edge guards ...and how about the exhaust tip ? man this semester flew by for me...the cybershot still sitting there...haven't touched it.
someone asked about the sidesteps and was thinking of installing the maniks for the ML. just a note :
the manik side tubes, which I have, reduce the ground clearance far more than the OEM MB steps kenyee and drew have. This is due to the mounting design that enables 'height adjustment' for the steps. The downfall is that ground clearance is reduced. just thought u'd like to know...
A few days back I saw on TV that the max load capacity (the one that the manufacturer (?) recommends for safety reasons - they were discussing SUV rollovers) is only 830lbs for the RX300 and 1350lbs for the ML. Are these numbers correct?
If that is the case then the RX300 has very low capacity compared to the ML.
I'm curious as to what you mean by "height adjustable". Does it mean that at installation, the bars can be adjusted to whatever height (within the specific range, of course) the customer is comfortable with?
Mine is not quite as exciting as Jonathan's :-) Anyway, this evening, I had to pick up someone from a place that I haven't been to in a while. As I was exiting the turn onto a narrow side street at the intersection, I realised that the concrete median was a lot closer than I had anticipated.
I tightened my arc a lot more and managed to drop the right rear wheel onto a (dark) patch of wet gravel. Gravel is very slippery since it is like driving on marbles. Almost immediately, the tailend started to fishtail (my foot was lightly on the gas at the time as I was accelerating out of the curve). ESP stepped in and uneventfully corrected the oversteer. I saw the triangle flash sternly at me twice while hearing two short ABS-like chatters from the rear. OOps... :-o
Yup, that's wat I meant. At the time of installation, there is a range of heights you can kinda adjust the bars to. I had it set to the highest (biggest distance from ground to bar).
Gravel attacks again - imagine I had all four wheels on gravel with foot down on pedal !
Something i extracted from "Mercedes Momentum" Fall 2000. :
"ESP orginated in the aerospace industry ... the heart is a yaw rate sensor ...First, ESP regulates the braking action on one or more individual wheels. Second, it automatically adjusts engine output when necessary - in effect decelerating the vehicle (even if the accelerator is applied). ESP handles icy, wet, GRAVELLY, and other adverse road surfaces too - conditions that challenge even the best drivers to keep the car on the road"
So what happened to me on gravel was the second thing ESP does. My foot was almost on full throtle when taking that turn, but yet the car almost came to complete stop. I guess ESP decelerated the ML almost to a complete stop, even when accelerating ! NICE
ASR is the torque reduction component of ESP. 4ETS is the brake-only component of traction control. It's a little weird because a few years ago, MB used to call their more advanced (more expensive and optional) brake + throttle traction control system ASR, and the less advanced (standard equipment) brake-only traction control system ETS.
In any case, ESP incorporates ASR + ETS + yaw/lateral stability/steering angle sensors. Add the 4-matic system to ESP and you get the ultimate combination - 4ESP. This is what the M-class and E-class 4-matic have.
I've had the MDX and the ML with 4 wheels in gravel lot. I took it easy though since all of the little rocks bouncing against the wheelwells made me uneasy. I didn't want to damage the demo vehicle's or my own vehicle's paint. Nonetheless, ESP worked very well, albeit a little slower since gravel allowed the tailend to start snapping around a lot faster. Some (normal) evasive steering is ideal. Harold P. strongly recommends leaving ESP active on gravel.
You'll find that if you drive into some snow, turn the steering wheel full lock and accelerate at full throttle, ESP will shut you down the same way.
Thanks for the clarification regarding the bars.
Drew/aling Edmunds.com Townhall host P.S. Any finals yet? :-)
great, back to fogs again. Some of you know, my aux fogs (hella micro FF) are powered by the sockets from the integrated foglamp sockets. I did this because the kit I bought was not from MB and did not have have the appropiate connector to the ML's aux fog lamp connector located under the hood, pretty close to the temp sensor.
my question is, if i do decide to cut this connector, and splice the wires to power my aux fogs, will the fog lamp switch in my ML still turn on the aux fogs ? should ya ?
The 2001 RX300 has Vehicle Skid Control (VSC), which is similar to ESP. I'm writing this post because Lexus has to announce this on every new RX...each has a showy VSC badge on the front door trim. Is that really necessary? I think that's one difference between a Benz and a Lexus.
Another point I forgot to mention is the amount of steering input that is necessary for the system to work correctly. I think had I not steered my ML in the right direction the systems may not havee corrected as much.
Jonathan must have been on lots-o'ice for several spins to occur. In this case would the esp (throttle component) be that helpful? it would have prevented him from accellerating too hard or wheel spin on the ML. The ETS would have been the most helpful in this case (which in his case was 80% off) if it was on it would have tried to help the spin by braking the correct wheels to send the torque to the correct wheels.
So in this case if the system was on and you were sliding/spinning, would it not be best to keep on the throttle, otherwise there is nothing to "pull" you" in the right direction should you come accross a patch of "traction"? It would only be braking the wheels.
With no throttle all systems on If the front wheel(s) had traction and the ML was sliding being carried by momentum it would be just a dancing duck with the brakes trying to stop the ML but if the wheel isnt going at least somem it will not find the piece of traction it needs to brake.
With the throttle all systems on If the front wheel(s) grabbed a piece of traction the front wheels would have atleast been able to pull in somewhat of the correct direction even if the ml was still dragged in a mess of ice, then the same would occur on any wheel that had a piece of traction. Thereby being able to regain control much sooner.
I agree now after some experiences that the system works under all conditions but it also depends on the amount of steering input the ML is given.
We should brake in a straight line enough to slowdown before the turn, and keep lightly on the throttle, espically at the apex. ( I guess this would be considered to be normal for most drivers though) With all the systems engaged and working you should not be spinning wheels at all... sliding is another matter which can be controled only if you have a patch of traction, wether it is coming from type of tires or a friendly piece of asphalt. Also braking in the corners or removing throttle in the corner can be hazardous in the corner because of the weight transfer to the front less in back, and would cause a spin easier.
MB really should sponsor some type of Winter ML powertrip on how to use the systems and what to expect from the systems and cornering. Sure it could handle in the summer, but it is even more amazing how it handles in the winter.
Todd: My old Integra had DOHC (dual over head cam) badges on it. It's one of those weird marketing things. Some have "turbo" badges. The ML Sport has a "Sport" badge on both sides.
Robert: Great idea. We should all ask at the mbusi contact address and get them to do the Powertrip near Boston this time :-)
About MLs with sport packages...I think the badge works in that case. It's a model designation, not showing off some feature of the car. We don't have the ML320 Sport 4ETS+ ESP ABS...
Is Mercedes still offering the Powertrip? I went to the one last year in Chicago and it was one of the reasons that convinced me to buy the M-Class. I would love to experience this wonderful adventure again. Does anyone know if they will start the tour again?
I'm back ready to buy a new ML 320 after 'turnoff' due to 'reliability horror stories' about 2 years back. A) is a new ML a good decision? any major pros or cons?
I'm back ready to buy a new ML 320 after 'turnoff' due to 'reliability horror stories' about 2 years back. A) is a new ML a good decision? any major pros or cons? Chuck
Please shed some light on Powerstrip. Does Chicago get it?
You guys are doing a good job in exchanging information. Please keep it up.
I had never been so excited by a car like the ML. It truely is a piece of mechanical wonder with all those safety features, ESP, 4ETS, ABS,etc. I am glad I bought it. (Hopefully I won't get turned off by other minor defects, knocking on burl). My ML has 800+ miles on it as of today.
Should oil be changed at 1000 miles - end of break-in miles?
I'm planning to buy '01 ML 320 in Houston. Does anyone know of a good dealership in Houston? R they negotiating at all w.r.t. pricing or r they expecting MSRP?
I enjoyed reading this site. After weeks of trying to decide bet. the ML and MDX, I finally decide in favor of the ML. More comfortable ride, and more value for the $, IMO.
In October I was stranded while on vacation. My '00 ML320 had a fuel pump failure, so it had to be flat-bedded back over 200 miles to the dealership. Roadside assistance told me to keep all of the receipts and get in touch with the Service Manager afterwards, I think he has a special title (SPOM, or something like that ... Service, Parts, and Operations Manager?).
The Service Manager (Leith Mercedes in Raleigh, NC) was really great, took all the information and even apologized for the inconvenience. He said it would take a long time for the paperwork to be processed, and it did! However, today I was fully reimbursed for over $800 of expenses. That level of service really floored me and it is enough to make me a definite repeat Mercedes customer, maybe for life.
Well, that and the fact that Mercedes is putting some great cars/trucks out these days that are much more appealing to the 30 something crowd. It's hard to believe, but their SLK320 is almost competitive with the Porsche Boxster. I can't believe I said that!
This month my ML320 will be a year old and it's one of the VERY few vehicles I have ever owned for that period of time, still being as happy with it after 12 months as I was when I first bought it.
I'll be looking for it too. I'll pose if there is another power trip. I went to the chicago one in the May 00'
It is so fun to toss the MLs around. It is amazing what it will take. I had my ML four months before the trip and I knew what to expect and how far I could push the ML. What everyone should plan to go to is the Edmunds Test Drive. That should be exciting!!!! I have some pictures of the PowerTrip on my Site. I never had time to put the description up.
It will remind the current owners why they own the ML and convince new people to buy.
... of who got to the century mark is ridiculous. That's 11%, no wonder this topic is up toNumber 19. While some may take a perverse pleasure in having themost posts, i think it adds to the difficulty for anyone to search back to find answers to common questions.
A joke is funny the FIRST time. It loses something over time.
...driving style. ESP is to help the lowest common denominator. That is, it's to help drivers, who need do nothing for it to activate.
However, if you are an experienced driver, who has plenty of experience with oversteer, throttle-induced oversteer, power oversteer, 4-wheel drifts, etc., then by all means, use a little throttle and opposite lock, to help drive thru the oversteer. Though, one should not assume that a little throttle, or alot, will always work.
If applying a little throttle in an oversteer condition does not seem to trigger the ESP system, one must remember, that steering in the direction of the oversteer, would counter the system inputs. Remember, the greater the difference between the steering wheel direction, and the actual vehicle direction will more likely trigger the ESP. If you steer into an oversteer, or apply a little opposite lock, you are reducing the differential in angle between steering wheel angle and actual vehicle direction. This would less likely trigger an ESP intervention.
If you're comfortable in driving yourself out of an oversteer condition, by all means do so, but if you aren't, the ESP is there to help you. A driving school, will help you in recognizing and reacting to oversteer. Understeer is much more common than oversteer, and people are much more capable in controlling it. That's why all manufacturer's dial understeer into the prevailing driving style of cars.
My explation wasnt biased (or not intended) towards an experienced driver or the novice. Even taking a corner or taking a slipping situation "normally". It was based on my experiences as I try my ML in the snow for the first time. Its my first time with this system in a 4WD vehicle.
I have had experience with the drifts, oversteer and understeer etc, but in a RWD car and applying some of this to the ML is pertinent but not all will apply.
I still think that it may be wise to keep on the throttle a bit even for less experienced drivers. It wont cause more slippage than it is, and when a wheel comes into an area of traction the ML will pull itself into line/control quicker than if the throttle had not been applied. Otherwise the ML will only be working with the brake component (and slowing at an increasing rate), thus if you oversteer into traffic there will be nothing to pull you over to your intended line. If you have the throttle on a bit, some of the traction may have been there to pull you along and assit in the turn, lessening the oversteer. And the same goes for pushing/understeer.
But I have to agree immensely with your steering wheel comment, it is extremely important to correctly point the steering wheel in the direction intended for the system to work properly.
I believe that people have retrofitted the 01 MOT StarTAC Timeport into the 00 ML.
Are you intending to install the Timport as an extra? FYI any off the wall StarTAC cannot be used with the MB OEM system/cradle.
You can however install a separate phone with separate cradle. I believe that you can use the OEM antenna. The only tip I can think of is to use the cigarette lighter in the consle to either power the phone or to act as the ignition senseing wire, and may be the outlet near the passenger footwell as the constant on wire.
Well my lock problem resurfaced again this AM. What had mysteriously disappeared by the time I got to the dealer last week, and hasn't returned since, came back again today when the temp was 5 degrees (F). The difference seems to be the temp as it has been above 16 degrees (F) since last week when I went to the dealer.
It appears I may have a warm weather vehicle.
I believe it is a problem with the drivers front door lock or remote actuator, as when I returned two clicks on the door remote would open all but the drivers door (13 degrees), but wouldn't when the temp was at 5 degrees. It must be a problem only when it is extremely cold as it hasen't surfaced till now. Unfortunately, we only have a single car garage, and it's full, so the vehicles have to stay out side. Out of all my vehicles this is the only one that has experienced this problem, but it is the only problems I have experienced with my ML.
Comments
< http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/5350/w163fl.htm>
Thanks
Besides, there's just something about a Benz ;-)
I for one, think this board is extremely informative, and feel that the main contributors have the right to play a little. It's a small price to pay for their knowledge.
I personally prefer the German vs. Japanese engineering. I also like the fact that the ML is built on a true Frame and is very substantial should you ever take it off road..this also contributes to saftey.
I don't believe the RX has ESP and this is worth considering...check the link below for more info on ESP =>
< http://www.4x4abc.com/ML320/ml320_ESP.html>
I have always compared the ML more with the LX470 which is a better comparison feature for feature. The RX is more in line with a SAV which may suit your needs fine.
The ML has a 5 speed automatic vs. a 4 speed on the RX...also both models have optional GPS systems but the ML is upgradable to such and I'm not sure the RX is..you might know this. Tow capacity is 5000 lbs. on the ML and only 3500 lbs. on the RX...but this again really relates to the ML being a true SUV and the RX being more of a luxury all road wagon...see what your needs are now or may be in the future...you'll have a bit more options with the ML in this regard. The ML has 8.4 inches ground clearance vs. 7.7 inches of the RX..there is a bit more leg and shoulder room in the rear seat of the ML...
Last I think the ML has a better permanent AWD system 4ETS...you always have equal power to each of the 4 wheels until traction is compromised and then 4ETS kicks in to give the wheels with more traction more power.
I personal think it is a bargain that the ML is priced the same as an RX this makes the decision even easier for me...more capability with more safety makes it a my decision.
Drew (aling) is even more informative, helpful, and knowledgeable on this topic...he also keeps up with the other forums so hopefully he will respond with more ML/RX info. to help you solidify your decision.
Good Luck - hope you choose the ML we'd love to have you join our forum on a regular basis!
I think it is fine if you want to compete and then be done with it - what is annoying is when others are asking questions and are not getting answers perhaps due to more concern being placed on the competition rather than the topic at hand. For example, I never had to chime in and answer questions but now find I need to because posters are not getting answers..this is very strange because Drew ALWAYS answers (His answers are always detailed and much better than mine)... I don't know for sure if this is due to the competition or rather Drew is tired of answering the same old questions...It certainly is not Drews sole responsibility to answer the forum questions it is just a subtile change I've noticed.
I enjoy Drew and others informative posts and knowledge, if we have to live with the excessive posts regarding competition I'll live with it. I would just would like to go on record that we should "try" to keep this to a minimum...don't stop it just keep it down to two or so posts when possible. Perhaps just going for the millennium "00" post is better for this and also more of a true challenge.
Sorry for being the old maid: ) It's that time of the month : )
Thanks!
The good news is that the gray door edge guards that Trim brite sells matches the Brilliant Silver paint extremely well. They were CDN$3.99 per pack of two and I used 3 packs (have to return the one extra pack) for all 4 doors. They're not body colour coded, but very subtle. I was considering chrome trim, but I thought that it would've been too flashy. FWIW, MB Canada does not have the (rather expensive, IMHO) body coloured accessory metal door edge guards that MBUSA has.
The bad news is that while making some last step alterations using a level to align the rear door guard on the left rear door with the front door's guard, I accidentally wacked a tiny (1/2 mm) piece of paint off the door with the large scissors. It has now been touched up, of course.
In any case, I'll be probably be installing the Parkpilot reverse warning system tomorrow, as well as the chrome exhaust tip if I have enough time. I haven't had much luck finding a 35mm hole saw for the sensors in the bumper. Everything is in imperial, not metric. Grrr...a trip to Sears is in order. Hope they have it there!
Thanks!
The 2001 RX has ESP. They finally figured out that they should add it :-)
I've also heard various comments that it is not as floaty as previous models.
Drew:
Weren't you the one who said dirt gets under the door edge guards and causes rust after a while?
I noticed a very very slight reduction in wind noise around the doors (radio was off). I wonder if this was just psychological. It does kind of make sense since there are smaller gaps around the doors now.
The ML, and all new MB vehicles AFAIK, have 4 sensor, 4 channel ABS. This means that the computer can modulate one brake without the other. In 4 sensor, 3 channel systems (2 channels/2 sensors for the front wheels, and 2 sensors/1 channel for the rear wheels), when one rear wheel locks up, the ABS has to modulate both rear wheels. This means longer stopping distances and less control.
BTW, keep in mind that as steering input increases, ABS effectiveness decreases. So, for the shortest stops, you want to keep the steering wheel steady. However, short stopping distances are not always the priority; such as when you're braking and turning to avoid an object on the road.
I'm curious about the earlier "ML500" rumor...not mentioned in this spy article...only the 4.0L V8 Diesel was mentioned.
ken - thanks for the RX "ESP" update...I still think the ML is a much more capable SUV. Not everybody needs an SUV though!
As for the high beam switch, it's a MB thing, just like the cruise control position (which I like a lot). As Ken said, push the stalk away from you to permanently activate the high beams (low beam bulbs also stay on BTW).
Ken initially ordered a '00 ML320 with the M4 package. However, there was some slight damage during transport, and he decided to wait for the '01 model instead. Of course, it wasn't until months later that we found out that the M4 package was cancelled for the '01 US models. It is, however, still available in Canada as seperate options. By seperate I mean we can buy the side runners without the M4 brushguard (and vice versa).
Yikes, you might have slid onto some ice as well. Since ice has almost no friction (co-efficient of 0.01 or something like that), that could explain how you managed to get from one end of the lot to the other so rapidly! How about sticking to the frozen lake for that next time :-)
With the "ESP off" switch activated, the computer still maintains 20% control (brakes only, no throttle reduction) so you would've gone truly out of control if there was a 100% off switch! But consider it a learning experience. See, you've already learnt not to touch that switch unless under special circumstances (off-roading/deep snow/sand).
Drew/aling
Edmunds.com Townhall host
dt77
just a note :
the manik side tubes, which I have, reduce the ground clearance far more than the OEM MB steps kenyee and drew have. This is due to the mounting design that enables 'height adjustment' for the steps. The downfall is that ground clearance is reduced. just thought u'd like to know...
dt77
dt77
If that is the case then the RX300 has very low capacity compared to the ML.
Cheers
TJ
I tightened my arc a lot more and managed to drop the right rear wheel onto a (dark) patch of wet gravel. Gravel is very slippery since it is like driving on marbles. Almost immediately, the tailend started to fishtail (my foot was lightly on the gas at the time as I was accelerating out of the curve). ESP stepped in and uneventfully corrected the oversteer. I saw the triangle flash sternly at me twice while hearing two short ABS-like chatters from the rear. OOps... :-o
Drew/aling
Edmunds.com Townhall host
At the time of installation, there is a range of heights you can kinda adjust the bars to. I had it set to the highest (biggest distance from ground to bar).
dt77
Something i extracted from "Mercedes Momentum" Fall 2000. :
"ESP orginated in the aerospace industry ... the heart is a yaw rate sensor ...First, ESP regulates the braking action on one or more individual wheels. Second, it automatically adjusts engine output when necessary - in effect decelerating the vehicle (even if the accelerator is applied). ESP handles icy, wet, GRAVELLY, and other adverse road surfaces too - conditions that challenge even the best drivers to keep the car on the road"
So what happened to me on gravel was the second thing ESP does. My foot was almost on full throtle when taking that turn, but yet the car almost came to complete stop. I guess ESP decelerated the ML almost to a complete stop, even when accelerating ! NICE
dt77
i forget ...
dt77
In any case, ESP incorporates ASR + ETS + yaw/lateral stability/steering angle sensors. Add the 4-matic system to ESP and you get the ultimate combination - 4ESP. This is what the M-class and E-class 4-matic have.
I've had the MDX and the ML with 4 wheels in gravel lot. I took it easy though since all of the little rocks bouncing against the wheelwells made me uneasy. I didn't want to damage the demo vehicle's or my own vehicle's paint. Nonetheless, ESP worked very well, albeit a little slower since gravel allowed the tailend to start snapping around a lot faster. Some (normal) evasive steering is ideal. Harold P. strongly recommends leaving ESP active on gravel.
You'll find that if you drive into some snow, turn the steering wheel full lock and accelerate at full throttle, ESP will shut you down the same way.
Thanks for the clarification regarding the bars.
Drew/aling
Edmunds.com Townhall host
P.S. Any finals yet? :-)
finals !? argh. not yet, huge design project on tues and one final on thurs. fri, i'm outta here !
dt77
Some of you know, my aux fogs (hella micro FF) are powered by the sockets from the integrated foglamp sockets. I did this because the kit I bought was not from MB and did not have have the appropiate connector to the ML's aux fog lamp connector located under the hood, pretty close to the temp sensor.
my question is, if i do decide to cut this connector, and splice the wires to power my aux fogs, will the fog lamp switch in my ML still turn on the aux fogs ? should ya ?
dt77
The 2001 RX300 has Vehicle Skid Control (VSC), which is similar to ESP. I'm writing this post because Lexus has to announce this on every new RX...each has a showy VSC badge on the front door trim. Is that really necessary? I think that's one difference between a Benz and a Lexus.
-Todd
Jonathan must have been on lots-o'ice for several spins to occur. In this case would the esp (throttle component) be that helpful? it would have prevented him from accellerating too hard or wheel spin on the ML. The ETS would have been the most helpful in this case (which in his case was 80% off) if it was on it would have tried to help the spin by braking the correct wheels to send the torque to the correct wheels.
So in this case if the system was on and you were sliding/spinning, would it not be best to keep on the throttle, otherwise there is nothing to "pull" you" in the right direction should you come accross a patch of "traction"? It would only be braking the wheels.
With no throttle all systems on
If the front wheel(s) had traction and the ML was sliding being carried by momentum it would be just a dancing duck with the brakes trying to stop the ML but if the wheel isnt going at least somem it will not find the piece of traction it needs to brake.
With the throttle all systems on
If the front wheel(s) grabbed a piece of traction the front wheels would have atleast been able to pull in somewhat of the correct direction even if the ml was still dragged in a mess of ice, then the same would occur on any wheel that had a piece of traction. Thereby being able to regain control much sooner.
I agree now after some experiences that the system works under all conditions but it also depends on the amount of steering input the ML is given.
We should brake in a straight line enough to slowdown before the turn, and keep lightly on the throttle, espically at the apex. ( I guess this would be considered to be normal for most drivers though) With all the systems engaged and working you should not be spinning wheels at all... sliding is another matter which can be controled only if you have a patch of traction, wether it is coming from type of tires or a friendly piece of asphalt. Also braking in the corners or removing throttle in the corner can be hazardous in the corner because of the weight transfer to the front less in back, and would cause a spin easier.
MB really should sponsor some type of Winter ML powertrip on how to use the systems and what to expect from the systems and cornering. Sure it could handle in the summer, but it is even more amazing how it handles in the winter.
Robert
Robert
My old Integra had DOHC (dual over head cam) badges on it. It's one of those weird marketing things. Some have "turbo" badges. The ML Sport has a "Sport" badge on both sides.
Robert:
Great idea. We should all ask at the mbusi contact address and get them to do the Powertrip near Boston this time :-)
About MLs with sport packages...I think the badge works in that case. It's a model designation, not showing off some feature of the car. We don't have the ML320 Sport 4ETS+ ESP ABS...
-Todd
Thanks
Chuck
You guys are doing a good job in exchanging information. Please keep it up.
I had never been so excited by a car like the ML. It truely is a piece of mechanical wonder with all those safety features, ESP, 4ETS, ABS,etc. I am glad I bought it. (Hopefully I won't get turned off by other minor defects, knocking on burl). My ML has 800+ miles on it as of today.
Should oil be changed at 1000 miles - end of break-in miles?
I enjoyed reading this site. After weeks of trying to decide bet. the ML and MDX, I finally decide in favor of the ML. More comfortable ride, and more value for the $, IMO.
The Service Manager (Leith Mercedes in Raleigh, NC) was really great, took all the information and even apologized for the inconvenience. He said it would take a long time for the paperwork to be processed, and it did! However, today I was fully reimbursed for over $800 of expenses. That level of service really floored me and it is enough to make me a definite repeat Mercedes customer, maybe for life.
Well, that and the fact that Mercedes is putting some great cars/trucks out these days that are much more appealing to the 30 something crowd. It's hard to believe, but their SLK320 is almost competitive with the Porsche Boxster. I can't believe I said that!
This month my ML320 will be a year old and it's one of the VERY few vehicles I have ever owned for that period of time, still being as happy with it after 12 months as I was when I first bought it.
It is so fun to toss the MLs around. It is amazing what it will take. I had my ML four months before the trip and I knew what to expect and how far I could push the ML. What everyone should plan to go to is the Edmunds Test Drive. That should be exciting!!!! I have some pictures of the PowerTrip on my Site. I never had time to put the description up.
It will remind the current owners why they own the ML and convince new people to buy.
Here:
http://www.exconde.com/pt.htm
Robert
A joke is funny the FIRST time. It loses something over time.
However, if you are an experienced driver, who has plenty of experience with oversteer, throttle-induced oversteer, power oversteer, 4-wheel drifts, etc., then by all means, use a little throttle and opposite lock, to help drive thru the oversteer. Though, one should not assume that a little throttle, or alot, will always work.
If applying a little throttle in an oversteer condition does not seem to trigger the ESP system, one must remember, that steering in the direction of the oversteer, would counter the system inputs. Remember, the greater the difference between the steering wheel direction, and the actual vehicle direction will more likely trigger the ESP. If you steer into an oversteer, or apply a little opposite lock, you are reducing the differential in angle between steering wheel angle and actual vehicle direction. This would less likely trigger an ESP intervention.
If you're comfortable in driving yourself out of an oversteer condition, by all means do so, but if you aren't, the ESP is there to help you. A driving school, will help you in recognizing and reacting to oversteer. Understeer is much more common than oversteer, and people are much more capable in controlling it. That's why all manufacturer's dial understeer into the prevailing driving style of cars.
I have had experience with the drifts, oversteer and understeer etc, but in a RWD car and applying some of this to the ML is pertinent but not all will apply.
I still think that it may be wise to keep on the throttle a bit even for less experienced drivers. It wont cause more slippage than it is, and when a wheel comes into an area of traction the ML will pull itself into line/control quicker than if the throttle had not been applied. Otherwise the ML will only be working with the brake component (and slowing at an increasing rate), thus if you oversteer into traffic there will be nothing to pull you over to your intended line. If you have the throttle on a bit, some of the traction may have been there to pull you along and assit in the turn, lessening the oversteer. And the same goes for pushing/understeer.
But I have to agree immensely with your steering wheel comment, it is extremely important to correctly point the steering wheel in the direction intended for the system to work properly.
Robert
Robert
StarTAC Timeport into the 00 ML.
Are you intending to install the Timport as an
extra? FYI any off the wall StarTAC cannot be used with the MB OEM system/cradle.
You can however install a separate phone with
separate cradle. I believe that you can use the OEM antenna. The only tip I can think of is to use the cigarette lighter in the consle to either power the phone or to act as the ignition senseing wire, and may be the outlet near the passenger footwell as the constant on wire.
Robert
It appears I may have a warm weather vehicle.
I believe it is a problem with the drivers front door lock or remote actuator, as when I returned two clicks on the door remote would open all but the drivers door (13 degrees), but wouldn't when the temp was at 5 degrees. It must be a problem only when it is extremely cold as it hasen't surfaced till now. Unfortunately, we only have a single car garage, and it's full, so the vehicles have to stay out side. Out of all my vehicles this is the only one that has experienced this problem, but it is the only problems I have experienced with my ML.
Has anyone else experienced anything similar.